I have updated my temple prediction map in preparation for General Conference later this month in September. The size of the Church in a specific geographical area (i.e. number of stakes and districts, the number of wards and branches), the age of the oldest stake in a specific geographical area, church growth trends, the distance to the nearest temple, traffic/transportation, the square-footage of the nearest temple, the historical number of weekly endowment sessions scheduled at the nearest temple, and member and missionary reports regarding member activity, temple attendance, and convert retention are variables used to identify prospective sites for future temple announcements. Altogether, there are 216 potential temples on the map (which is just 1 potential temple site lower than the total number of potential sites identified in February 2023. The following 12 locations have been added to the temples prediction map with this current update - all of which are less likely temples:
- Amarillo, Texas
- Bulawayo, Zimbabwe
- Fort Wayne, Indiana
- Joinville, Brazil
- Ponta Grossa, Brazil
- Rigby, Idaho
- Richfield, Utah
- Tremonton, Utah
- Tulsa, Oklahoma
- Umuahia, Nigeria
- Uyo, Nigeria
- Victorville or Lancaster, California
Three potential temples sites were transferred from the less likely temples list to the more likely temples list. I also provided with the reasoning why this change was made. These sites include:
- Bo, Sierra Leone (rapid growth in stakes and congregations - likely the city with over 100,000 people with the highest percentage of Latter-day Saints on the Afro-Eurasian landmass. There were approximately 223,000 people in the city per 2021 census figures, and currently there are 27 wards in the city, or one ward per approximately 8,259 people. The average ward or branch in Sierra Leone had 321 people as of year-end 2022, indicating that Church membership for Bo may be as high as 8,667, or 3.9% of the city population. Latter-day Saints are one of the largest Christian denominations in Bo. There are three stakes in Bo (all organized since 2017) with the strong possibility of 1-2 new stakes being created in the immediate future).
- Lehi, Utah (steady growth in the number of congregations and stakes in the area).
- Osorno, Chile (recent progress with branches maturing into wards in the area, long distance from the nearest temple in Concepcion).
The following 10 locations appear most likely to have temples announced this coming General Conference. As always, your prediction lists are welcome and encouraged.
- Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
- Spanish Fork, Utah
- Angeles or Olongapo, Philippines
- Colorado Springs, Colorado
- Kampala, Uganda
- São José, Brazil
- Viña del Mar, Chile
- João Pessoa, Brazil
- Santiago, Dominican Republic
- Maracaibo, Venezuela
See below for the map of likely and less likely new temple sites:
131 comments:
The recent detailed financial report from the Church in New Zealand - the Pacific Area headquarters shows a) significant funds being injected into the local budget by Salt Lake City and b) the sum unspent accumulated funds as of December 2022 exceeds $500 million NZD. This could be on preparation for a large scale temple building. I would choose the following in order of priority:
- Christchurch NZ - covering 3 Stakes and 1 district in the South Island. Air travel to Wellington or Hamilton is expensive.
- Hobart AU - 2 Stakes in Tasmania.
- Canberra AU - 1 Stake.
- South Brisbane or Gold Coast AU - lots of growth and strong activity rates.
- Cook Islands.
- Niue.
- Western suburbs Melbourne - strong growth and limited capacity in the existing far south Easy of Melbourne.
My temple predictions for October 2023 general conference
1. Ha’apai, Tonga
2. Kolonia, Federated states of Micronesia
3. Neuquén, Argentina
4. Mbuji-Mayi, Democratic Republic of the Congo
5. Sunderland, England
6. Ulaanbataar, Mongolia
7. Xalapa, Mexico
8. Ciudad Obregón, Mexico
9. Campo Grande, Brazil
10. Maracaibo, Venezuela
11. Albany, New York
12. Herriman, Utah
13. Fairbanks, Alaska
14. Butte OR Great Falls, Montana
15. Longview, Texas
16. Pasadena, California
17. Santa Rosa OR Lancaster, California
18. Shreveport, Louisiana
19. Fort Wayne, Indiana
My top picks for this conference
Top 10:
1. Kampala, Uganda
2. Osaka, Japan
3. Flagstaff, Arizona
4. Tacna, Peru
5. Nampa, Idaho
6. Santiago de los Caballeros, Dominican Republic
7. Bo, Sierra Leone
8. Des Moines, Iowa
9. Tulsa, Oklahoma
10. Abuja, Nigeria
Dark Horse Picks:
1. Tirana, Albania
2. White Tank Mountain (Surprise), Arizona
3. Price, Utah
4. Alamosa, Colorado
5. Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
All my predictions can be found on this map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=10lauuaMZA5ZyrCXU5DpKk1kbhZKpCExq&usp=sharing
Let's see what October 2023 brings. Here's my guesses:
Edinburgh/Glasgow, Scotland
Ibadan, Nigeria
Yamoussoukro, Côte d’Ivoire
Kampala, Uganda
Cape Coast, Ghana
Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
Osaka, Japan
Angeles, Philippines
Savaii, Samoa
Lima Peru #3 (Lima South)
Rosario, Argentina
Florianópolis, Brazil
Cancún, Mexico
Evanston/Lyman/Bridger Valley, WY
Fairbanks, AK
South Houston Metro (Sugar Land)
Flagstaff/Prescott, AZ
Colorado Springs, CO
Coeur d’Alene/Post Falls/Hayden, ID
Herriman, UT (14852 Juniper Crest site)
My list can be found in the following document (anyone with this link should be able to access it: let me know if any of you have any trouble with it):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-KFj733qA0rzdsU0w14xhllQVSjCH_5GrhYsQRxdj7U/edit?usp=sharing
While that is the master list of all near-term prospects I have projected, I also have an area-by-area breakdown of my top picks:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AHEJOqAjEJDN7aXQLlfrkzc2yTVer6E0TRR5eYdNKB8/edit?usp=sharing
My area-specific picks for October are at the bottom of that document. Also, it has previously been noted here that President Nelson's goal is to announce at least 35 temples per year. With that in mind, since 15 were announced in April, I anticipate a minimum of 20 for October. I will probably be reconsidering my picks for the Pacific Area in view of Brett's comment above.
While I have no desire to detract from the temple discussion, I also wanted to note something else: In July 1981, the aging First Presidency members were all dealing with health-related issues that limited their abilities to function in their callings. President Kimball felt impressed to call then-Elder Gordon B. Hinckley as an additional counselor in the First Presidency. For the first time ever now, each member of our current First Presidency is over 90 years old. While President Nelson is reportedly still vigorous, energetic, and engaged, this is the oldest First Presidency in Church history. As noted by me in another thread, I won't attempt to forecast the lifespan of any apostles (with the exception of President Nelson, whose health, vigor, energy, and capacity is, by all reports, still very good: he still reportedly functions with the same capacity as someone 20-30 years younger than his now-99 years of age).
I'd be interested in getting some thoughts from any of you who would like to weigh in on the question as to the potential likelihood that, with the oldest First Presidency in Church history, do any of you have any thoughts about whether an additional counselor or two could be called at some point? There is precedent for that. All members of the First Presidency are reportedly still functioning well, including President Eyring (who has the additional task of being the primary caregiver to his wife).
It occurred to me that Elder Uchtdorf has been in the First Presidency before and could be called there again at some point. And Elders Holland and Bednar are on the younger side for where they currently sit in terms of apostolic seniority. Matt, if you feel this is not an appropriate discussion in any thread here, let me know, and I'll encourage any of you with thoughts on this question to comment on it on the threads of my blog. My thanks once again to you all.
I have decided to try and predict the temples announced during the upcoming October 2023 General Conference. I have compiled an extended list based on some of the more popular predictions as well as my own observations as well. I believe there will be between 15-20 temples announced so I've made a list of 20 to put out there. There are a few that are definite underdogs, but usually a few of those get announced every conference so I thought why not see what happens. I also decided to minimize trying to predict any cases of multiple temples being announced for a specific metro area, al a Mexico City recently. I have another temple listed for Nigeria, even though the fact that there is a backlog in getting those moving makes me a bit wary. Without further ado, here is my list (order is geographic, no special priority).
01. Lehi, Utah, USA
02. Spanish Fork or Springville, Utah, USA
03. Queen Creek or San Tan Valley, Arizona, USA
04. Richmond, Texas, USA
05. Pueblo or Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
06. Cancun, Mexico
07. Ahuachapan or Santa Ana, El Salvador
08. Santiago, Dominican Republic
09. Valparaiso or Vina del Mar, Chile
10. Rosario, Argentina
11. Florianopolis or Sao Jose, Brazil
12. Santa Maria, Brazil
13. Gagnoa, Daloa or Yamoussoukro, Ivory Coast
14. Cape Coast, Mpintsin or Takoradi, Ghana
15. Abuja, Nigeria
16. Kampala, Uganda
17. Ulanbaatar, Mongolia
18. Taichung City, Taiwan
19. Angeles, Phillipines
20. Batangas, Phillipines
I published my temples prediction list of 20 temples on August 26. Based on Matt's map and more pondering, I am dropping Yerevan Armenia from my list and adding Glasgow/Edinborough Scotland, Poza Rica Mexico, and Maracaibo Venezuela.
Well, I predict for Florianópolis and Santa Maria in Brazil and Bo in Sierra Leone.
Here's my top 20 list (listed geographically not by what I think is most probable)
*Savaii Samoa, Pacific Area
*Luzon Island, Philippines Area - Angeles or another Metro Manila
*Ulaanbaatar Mongolia, Asia North Area
*Kampala Uganda, Africa Central Area
*Cape Coast Ghana, Africa West Area
*Nigeria, Africa West Area. Among potential locations include Port Harcourt, Abuja, Abeokuta/Ibadan, Onitsha, Uyo, and Calabar.
*Benin/Togo, Africa West Area
*Scotland, Europe North Area
*Rosario Argentina, South America South Area
*East of Lima, Peru, South America Northwest Area, (Other side of the Andes from Lima)
*Florianópolis/São José Brazil, Brazil Area
*Second Fortaleza Temple Brazil, Brazil Area
*Santa Ana El Salvador, Central America Area
*Cancun Mexico, Mexico Area
*Poza Rica Mexico, Mexico Area
*Cincinnati Ohio, North America Northeast Area
*Central Iowa, North America Central Area
*Houston Metro Texas, North America Southwest Area
*Southern Wasatch Front, Utah Area, (southern Salt Lake Valley or Utah Valley)
*Fairbanks/North Pole Alaska, North America West Area,
Another 41 (listed geographically) not as likely as first group but very likely
*Bora Bora/Ra'atea French Polynesia, Pacific Area
*Majuro Marshall Islands, Pacific Area
*Canberra Australia, Pacific Area
*Western Honshu Island, Japan, Asia North Area
*Mapueto Mozambique, Africa South Area
*Another Democratic Republic of the Congo, Africa Central Area, Possibilities for additional locations include Mbuji-Mayi/Luputa vicinity, or another around Kinshasa
*Bo Sierra Leone, Africa West Area
*Southern Spain, Europe Central Area
*Northern Italy, Europe Central Area
*Temuco Chile or areas south, South America South
*Neuquen Argentina or areas south, South America South
*Resistencia Argentina, South America South
*Tacuarembó Uruguay, South America South
*West of Santiago along the coast, South America South, Vina Del Mar/Valparaiso metro.
*Tacna Peru, South America Northwest Area
*Piura Perú, South America Northwest Area
*Ecuador, South America Northwest Area, Quevedo or another Guayaquil
*North-central Columbia, South America Northwest Area, area between Medellín and Bucaramanga
*Western Venezuela, South America Northwest Area
*Santa Maria Brazil, Brazil Area
*State of Sao Paulo, Brazil Area, around Araçatuba or another in the Sao Paulo Metro.
*João Pessoa, Brazil Area
*Santiago Dominican Republic, Caribbean Area
*Morelia Mexico, Mexico Area
*Chihuahua Mexico, Mexico Area
*Florida-Alabama-Mississippi, North America Southeast Area, Row of potential locations: Pensacola Florida, Mobile Alabama, Hattiesburg MS, or Jackson MS
*Buena Vista Virginia, North America Northeast Area
*New Jersey, North America Northeast Area
*Concord New Hampshire, North America Northeast Area
*Wisconsin, North America Central Area
*Nampa Idaho, North America Central Area
*Blackfoot Idaho, North America Central Area
*Colorado Springs Colorado, North America Central Area
*El Paso Texas, North America Southwest Area
*Flagstaff Arizona, North America Southwest Area,
*Tulsa Oklahoma, North America Southwest Area
*Phoenix Metro, North America Southwest Area
*Price Utah, Utah Area
*Evanston Wyoming, Utah Area
*Santa Rosa California, North America West Area
*Arlington Washington, North America West Area
This is my list of top 20 temples, with a mix of some I consider very likely and a few that are more of a long shot. My full list has probably around 100-200 temples, so it's been heavily curated
Milan, Italy
Tirana, Albania
Santa Maria, Brazil
Maracaibo, Venezuela
Huancayo, Peru
Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
Cuiabá, Brazil
Florianópolis, Brazil
Kampala, Uganda
Abuja, Nigeria
Port Harcourt, Nigeria
Mwene-Ditu, DRC
Osaka, Japan
Houston (South), Texas
Washington D.C (South), USA
Green Bay, Wisconsin
Neuquén, Argentina
Viña del Mar, Chile
Angeles, Philippines
Seville, Spain
Clarification: First list is my top 20. Second List is another 41. Not as likely, but sure some will be picked off of this list as well.
Over the next year (35 temple announcements), I maybe overconfident, but I'm guessing
10 off my first list
10 off my second list
15 not on any list or duplicated on a list - ie. 2 Nigeria gets announced instead of one
Regarding Alamosa: I once read a report about the history of the Church's settlement in the San Luis valley, and it seems a church leader (I forget who he was or what office he held) predicted that there would be an Alamosa temple someday.
https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5693&context=etd
You can read it here on page 45
I'll pick Puerto Montt in stead of Osorno.
Well, looks like I spoke too soon. We now have some progress on r Lagos and Benin City temples in Nigeria.
New Temple news! https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/two-temple-sites-in-nigeria-released
Locations for 2 nigerian temples Benin City (announced April 5, 2020) and Lagos (announced October 7, 2018). Lagos in particular feels significant since it's been 5 years since the original announcement.
The Kona Hawaii renovation has also been redesigned: the original renovation plans retained the angel Moroni, but the revision removed it (you can see both designs here: https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/kona-hawaii-temple/photographs/). Honestly, I prefer the aesthetics of the 2022 plans, but it's very much in keeping with the overall trend against Moronis - which makes me wonder, perhaps the Manhattan renovation plans will be similarly revised?
I am not going to try and do a global list of predictions, but I will take a stab at 10 temples for Europe:
- Berlin, Germany
- Edinburgh, Scotland (although I think somewhere like Perth would be infinitely more useful for the country as a whole)
- Prague, Czech Republic
- Sevilla, Spain
- Dublin, Ireland
- Tirana, Albania
- Reykjavik, Iceland (wild choice, but there are now four congregations there with three of them formed since 2007)
- Cardiff, Wales (but I think Merthyr Tydfil would be a more sensible choice for mid and South Wales given transport links and access for other Welsh congregations)
- London Hyde Park, England
- Toulouse, France
I will look forward to conference regardless
Apparently two of us are using the name Craig. I am Craig Shuler. I posted as Craig at 1:12 today, but not as Craig at 1:07. I agree with some of 1:07's predictions, but not with most of them.
Matt, would you consider adding the Makeni Sierra Leone District to a future Bo Temple? Or does it look like it would be retained by the Freetown Temple?
https://maps.churchofjesuschrist.org/stakes/2096625
My Top 20:
1. Colorado Springs, Colorado
2. Spanish Fork, Utah
3. Queen Creek, Arizona
4. Flagstaff, Arizona
5. Kampala, Uganda
6. Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
7. Kanab, Utah
8. Temecula, California
9. Las Vegas West
10. San Luis Valley, Colorado
11. Houston South
12. Blackfoot, Idaho
13. Osaka, Japan
14. Quezon City, Philippines
15. Cape Coast, Ghana
16. Glasgow, Scotland
17. Cotonou, Benin
18. Lomo, Togo
19. Milan, Italy
20. Munich, Germany
I would expect to see 15 temples announced in October.
Outlook to 2030
So right now, we are looking at 48 months from announcement to completion of most temples (not using modular construction) in the United States. So temples announced in October of this year, would likely be open and ready for ordinance work in late 2027 or early to mid 2028.
Can the church build 25 more modular temples before 2030? How many more fabricators can the Church bring onboard before 2030?
I think we will see a continuation of temples built along the Wasatch Front (Spanish Fork, Cottonwood Heights, Farmington, North Ogden, Santaquin, Herriman) and in smaller pioneer communities (Kanab, Beaver, Delta, Hurricane, Castle Dale, Richfield, Fillmore, Nephi, Price). Throw Grace and Preston, Idaho into the pioneer community temple group too.
Arizona is only western state not to have a temple announced during Pres. Nelson’s tenure. It seems like the time is now. Arizona is underrepresented in comparison to Idaho, as far as temples (both have 400k+ members and 120+ stakes). To get to same temple to member ratio, Arizona would need three more temples announced. There will continue to be overall residential growth in the SE Valley (Queen Creek and San Tan) and in the NW Valley (Surprise and Goodyear/Buckeye). Flagstaff fits the mold perfectly for the 30k sq ft temple. Two local stakes, five outlier stakes and home to NAU.
I can see two more operating temples in Houston and two more in Las Vegas before 2030. Cincinnati, Green Bay, Iowa City, Little Rock, Rapid City will have announced temples in next 36 months.
Can the Church get temple construction in front of the growth curve in Africa? Get temples in the planning process for Uganda, Namibia, Angola, Benin, Togo and Senegal so that they can be completed about the time that the Church population is mature enough to utilize a temple at a high level and thus reduce travel cost to distant temples? We will continue to build multiple temples in South Africa, Ghana, Nigeria and DRC in the next seven years. And I know this sounds crazy, but what about a temple in Morocco or Egypt?
No word on the temples announced for Budapest (4.5 years), Brussels (2.5 years) and Vienna (2.5 years). I think temples in Scotland, London North End, Milan, Munich and another in Spain are very possible. I also think we will see a temple announced in the Balkan countries.
Mexico will continue at a rate of two temple announcements a year. Brazil and the Philippines continue at three temple announcements per year. Two more temples in Argentina and Chile before 2030. Three more temples in Australia before 2030. Four to six more across the Pacific Islands.
Intrigued by the idea of new temple(s) in Venezuela, despite ongoing political and economic issues.
Can the Cove Fort, UT, Sharon, VT and Priesthood Restoration sites include temples (small, maybe seasonal) prior to 2030?
Even with a temple located in Farmington, NM, I am fascinated by the idea of a hogan inspired temple located somewhere on the Navajo Reservation.
And when do we hear more about the humongous Teton River Temple (130k sq ft) and the new adjacent Missionary Training Center?
My bet:
South America
- Vina del Mar Chile
- Maracaibo Venezuela
- Florianópolis Brazil (established in São José)
- Santa Maria Brazil
Asia
- Ulanbaatar
- Osaka Japan
- Angeles Phillipines
Africa
- Kampala Uganda
- Cape Coast Ghana
- Port Harcourt Nigeria
North America
- Colorado Springs CL
- Spanish Fork UT
- Sandy/Granite/Cottonwood UT
- East Phoenix AZ
- Santa Ana El Salvador
Europe
- London Hyde Park England
- Munich Germany
- Glasgow Scotland
And to do in São Paulo what was done in Mexico (2 'inner city' temples and 4 cardinal macrometropolitan temples, considering Santos and Campinas):
- Sorocaba Brazil
- São José dos Campos Brazil
In 2024 and beyond, similar metropolitan expansion plans could occur in Houston, Las Vegas, Santiago, Lima, Manila, Guatemala and Buenos Aires.
I find it more and more difficult to accurately predict temple announcements as temples are increasingly built in places where there are only a handful of stakes. My goal is to predict places that are announced, but also to avoid predicting places that are not announced (ie to avoid both type I and type II errors). That said, my best guess is as follows, more or less in the order of how likely I think they are:
1) Kampala, Uganda
2) Florianopolis, Brazil (although it probably will actually be built in São José)
3) Osorno, Chile
4) Santa Ana, El Salvador
5) Edinburgh, Scotland (though I think it may well be built in Falkirk)
6) Rosario, Argentina
7) Santiago de los Caballeros, Dominican Republic
8) Chihuahua, Mexico
9) Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
10) Cancun, Mexico
11) Vina del Mar, Chile
12) Neuquen, Argentina
13) Mobile, Alabama
14) Lomé, Togo
15) Osaka, Japan
I also think the moment the political situation allows the church will build a temple in Maracaibo, Venezuela, but it is hard to know when that will be.
--Felix
Every Conference I wonder if we will reaquire the Kirtland Temple and even the Temple Lot in Independence?
Is this the Conference?
@James, I think it quite likely that a third counselor will be called into the First Presidency sometime in the next year, unless President Nelson were to pass away sooner than that. If a third counselor were called, I think Elder Bednar is by far the most likely to be called into that role. I think this because: a) he has seemingly been relied on extensively for a lot of the high-visibility assignments requiring travel in the past year or two, b) he is younger than most of his brethren in the quorum (and if Pres. Nelson calls a third counselor he will probably want someone on younger side who is more likely to remain healthy and energetic), and c) actuarial tables suggest a high probability that he will eventually become president of the church, and President Nelson has spoken before about how it would have been an easier transition in the presidency if he had had the benefit of prior experience in the First Presidency, which is part of why he called President Oaks as a counselor.
Others who seem like more likely possibilities include Elder Soares, who seemingly also bears a lot of the travel assignments of the 12 (and who has the added benefit of speaking Portuguese as his first language) and is the youngest apostle by 5 years), as well as Elder Andersen, for reasons of age and just a general impression of vitality. The only ones I would regard as deeply unlikely are Elder Holland, due to poor health, and President Ballard, due to his age and the fact that Elder Holland's health challenges would make it difficult for him to be Acting President of the Quorum of the 12 in the event of President Ballard being called to the First Presidency.
--Felix
I think the Church missed its chance to build a (currently) viable temple into Kirtland with the location announcement of the Cleveland temple.
I've also posted my predictions earlier, but wanted to make a bit of an addendum (two, really) about two temple sites in Germany that have been frequently suggested: Berlin and Munich. Firstly, I believe that the Berlin stake will be a crucial foundation for the temple in Hamburg. I doubt that Berlin will get a temple in the next 10 years for that reason. Munich has seen some of the fastest growth of the Church in Germany in the last couple of years, but this does not change that a temple in Munich would likely only serve one relatively small stake. Stuttgart would likely stay with Frankfurt and Nuremberg is a toss-up (but at least the wards in Würzburg and Ansbach are much more favorably located to Frankfurt). My best guess is that Munich will be part of the Vienna district for quite some time.
If we are looking for another temple in Germany, I would probably pick a place like Düsseldorf, Duisburg or Essen. The efforts to create a third stake in that area have been ongoing for at least 10 years, mostly hindered by the number of wards. But more recently I have heard of some good progress (Wesel becoming a ward was only the beginning apparently) and I would not be shocked if a third stake was created in western Germany in the next couple of years. That area also supplies an overproportional number of workers to Frankfurt, so I don't think there would be as much of a challenge to staff a small temple. Finally, I know that at least the Düsseldorf stake has been a net-payer in tithing for at least the last decade.
Felix, thanks for your observations. I suppose the viability of Elder Holland being called as a counselor would largely depend on whether his most recent stint in the hospital has allowed major progress on his significant health challenges. He is the youngest of the three apostles born in 1940 (Elder Uchtdorf is 27--28 days older than Elder Holland, and Elder Cook is almost 2 months older than Elder Uchtdorf). I have felt that Elder Uchtdorf will again be in the First Presidency at some point, but agree that Elder Bednar makes more sense in terms of a longer view of his probability to become the Church President at some point. Plus, if Elder Bednar is that choice, it will lower the average age of the First Presidency.
Regarding what might happen in the event that President Ballard precedes Elder Holland in death (again a variable at this point), it occurs to me to wonder whether it would be possible for the next most senior Quorum member to be designated as the first Assistant Acting President of the Quorum.
That is, of course, a moot point if, as the latest news release states, Elder Holland is able to realize his hope of resuming his active apostolic ministry.
But whatever happens going forward regarding Elders Holland and Uchtdorf, I agree that Elder Bednar may be the most likely candidate to join the First Presidency if an additional counselor is needed.
And I would also add that that is especially true in view of the fact that Elders Cook, Christofferson, Andersen, and Rasband are all older than but junior to Elder Bednar.
Matt, Thanks for the Stake updates also. It's nice to see that 2 of the Districts in the Republic of Chile are soon to be scheduled to reorganize as Stakes in October and November this year. And the new Stake that was organized this weekend September 10th.
For anyone interested in a little history, the Linares Chile Stake - 418714, was organized on April 24th, 1988 (found as Stake #1694 on Page 457 of the 2013 copy of Church Almanac published by the Church News), and during the 2002 consolidations of Stakes in Chile, on November 24th, 2002 was consolidated to its current status of District. And is planned according to Matt to become a Stake again either on Saturday October 28th or Sunday October 29th of this year.
Also, the Buín Chile District - 610194, was organized on February 10th, 1984, then became a stake for a short time on February 26th, 1995 (also found as Stake #2026 on Page 457 of the 2013 copy of Church Almanac published by the Church News), and was later consolidated as a District again in it's current form, possibly in 2002 (I don't know the date), and according to Matt is planned to become a Stake again sometime in November this year.
I hope you all find this interesting or useful.
Also, a personal request, yesterday while working on my Excel sheet database of Stakes and Districts. The file got deleted by mistake and I had no current backup file. I was able to retrieve a copy i had saved from back in June of this year. so most of my data was still intact. But I need to update the new and discontinued units since June. I have added them from Matt's side list. But anyone who has access to the CDOL list can provide me with the assigned Temple District and Church Missions for these last units. I would be very grateful.
Stakes :
Mazatenango Guatemala Las Flores
México City El Lago
Ponta Grossa Brazil North
Curitiba Brazil Campo Comprido
Jaraguá do Sul Brazil
Nsit Ubium Nigeria
Gramado Brazil
Amarillo Texas East
Bouake Cote d'Ivoire
Uyo Nigeria Central
and these 2 Districts :
Chiquimula Guatemala South
Europe Central Area
The American Fork Utah Harbor Stake has been updated on the Meetinghouse Locator mapsite.
https://maps.churchofjesuschrist.org/stakes/2236761
Here is the original Church News biographies article from 1995 about the organization of the original Buin Chile Stake.
https://www.thechurchnews.com/1995/4/29/23255525/new-stake-presidencies-286
Mazatenango Guatemala Las Flores
Assigned Mission
Guatemala Retalhuleu Mission (1175378) Mision Guatemala Retalhuleu
Assigned Temple
Quetzaltenango Guatemala Temple (536504) Templo de Quetzaltenango, Guatemala
México City El Lago
Assigned Mission
México México City Southeast Mission (1161970) Misión México Ciudad de México Sureste
Assigned Temple
Mexico City Mexico Temple (790621) Templo de la Ciudad de México, México
Ponta Grossa Brazil North
Assigned Mission
Brazil Curitiba Mission (2011816) Missão Brasil Curitiba
Assigned Temple
Curitiba Brazil Temple (418927)
Curitiba Brazil Campo Comprido
Assigned Mission
Brazil Curitiba Mission (2011816) Missão Brasil Curitiba
Assigned Temple
Curitiba Brazil Temple (418927)
Jaraguá do Sul Brazil
Assigned Mission
Brazil Florianópolis Mission (2010305) Missão Brasil Florianópolis
Assigned Temple
Curitiba Brazil Temple (418927)
Nsit Ubium Nigeria
Assigned Mission
Nigeria Uyo Mission (369659)
Assigned Temple
Aba Nigeria Temple (365904)
Gramado Brazil
Assigned Mission
Brazil Porto Alegre North Mission (2013029) Missão Brasil Porto Alegre Norte
Assigned Temple
Porto Alegre Brazil Temple (706558)
Amarillo Texas East
Assigned Mission
Texas Lubbock Mission (381705)
Assigned Temple
Lubbock Texas Temple (365939)
Bouake Cote d'Ivoire
not assigned in cdol yet
Uyo Nigeria Central
Assigned Mission
Nigeria Uyo Mission (369659)
Assigned Temple
Aba Nigeria Temple (365904)
Chiquimula Guatemala South
Child
Esquipulas Branch (324183) Rama Esquipulas
Ipala Branch (284483) Rama Ipala
Quezaltepeque Branch (2186225)
San Luis Branch (2181045)
Parent
Guatemala Guatemala City East Mission (2012324) Mision Guatemala Guatemala Este
Europe Central Area
Assigned Temple
Kyiv Ukraine Temple (706523)
Child
Adana Military Branch (64890)
Ankara Branch (64912)
Antalya Branch (2195658)
Europe Central Area District Branch (2241420)
Isparta Branch (2148382)
Istanbul 1st Branch (141658) İstanbul Birinci Dalı
Istanbul 2nd Branch (English) (2111748)
Izmir Branch (64920)
Hope that helps.
American Fork Utah Harbor Stake
Assigned Mission
Utah Orem Mission (2041464)
Assigned Temple
Mount Timpanogos Utah Temple (790656)
Yes, JSA. Thank you. That was very helpful to complete my lists.
American Fork Utah Harbor Stake has the following 7 wards.
Harbor 1st
Harbor 3rd
Harbor 5th
Harbor 6th
Harbor 7th
Harbor 8th
Harbor 9th
With 5th-9th wards all being created in the last 3 years.
With new homes being built and I would safely say we should see new wards, and stakes organized in the near future.
@James, et. al.
The more I think about it, I think that a third counselor is likely for a few reasons. First, the age of the Presidency is getting older, and DHO--and especially HBE--are showing signs of slowing down. Second, President Nelson has consistently bucked tradition and made a splash when he felt it was necessary (starting on day one, when Elder Uchtdorf was moved back to the Twelve). Third, it is apparent that many of the Twelve are starting to age and slow down, meaning that within the next year or two only half the quorum may be up to taking on big assignments. Calling a third counselor and filling the vacancy in the Twelve would add an extra body and lighten the workload for the other "younger" members.
Who would it be? I think Elder Bednar is an excellent guess, as it's likely he would be a prime candidate for counselor in any upcoming First Presidency. However, I think he's less likely than Elder Uchtdorf to take the role.
Elder Holland's health is likely not to improve, considering he has had health struggles for years, recently lost his spouse, and underwent an extended hospitalization. Were he to pass, Elder Uchtdorf's chances to be President would dramatically increase vis a vis the actuarial table and his apparent excellent health. He has experience in the First Presidency, could pick up a large portfolio immediately, would be a likely future President gaining additional experience, and his call could also send a message that, no, he was NOT demoted, just called to do different work for a time.
But all this is to say one thing: actuarial tables are useful tools and perceived vigor is important, but most of the Brethren are OLD. And old guys die all the time, with very little indication. The Lord is in charge!
Matt S., thanks for your thoughts. I know that the Lord knows a lot more about the times and seasons of each apostle than I ever will. But my mind keeps going back to Elders Cruce R. McConkie, David B. Haight, Neal A. Maxwell, and Robert D. Hales. Each of them experienced fairly significant health/age issues that could have taken them out at any point before they actually passed away. But each of them rebounded in miraculous ways because their apostolic ministry was not yet concluded. While I recognize dialysis is a serious thing for a very difficult health challenge, it would not surprise me in the least if we see Elder Holland rebound. I kind of wonder if/how much the sudden loss of his wife played into his health situation. I'm sure it didn't help. The reports I've seen on Elder Holland have me convinced that he'll rebound as well. But if you feel otherwise, that's not a problem.
You make a good point about Elder Uchtdorf. It's amazing that so many people still see his return to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as some kind of demotion. He doesn't see it that way, and, as President Nelson put it, "is willing to serve now where [he] is most needed." Would Elder Uchtdorf be more likely than Elder Bednar to be called to the current First Presidency if an additional counselor is deemed necessary? I think that's a question that may only be answered if/when one or more counselors are called. But both Elder Uchtdorf and Elder Bednar have had high-profile assignments, so either or both would be wonderful, if that's where the Lord needs them. Just my thoughts in response to yours. I look forward to any additional discussion on this here.
To be the sole voice against the third counselor idea:
The older an apostle gets, the likelier his decline leading to death is to be rapid. President Kimball was heavily disabled for 4-5 years before he passed. Both his counselors were facing significant health challenges that lasted years. I see President Nelson as someone who will be vibrant until he passes; We will observe a relatively rapid decline. (I don't mean to speculate about when that will start.) And while his counselors are older, there are no publicly known health problems aside from the effects of age.
This Presidency can press on 1-2 years (assuming they all live) and re-evaluate in 2025 or so if they need help.
Why do Ya bet a temple in Florianópolis area must be built in São José ? Why not in the Island ?
No temple has ever been announced for a country that did not have an operating temple but had another announced, unless you count plans to build a temple in Missouri when there was already a temple in Kirtland.
In fact, if we focus on how Nauvoo is the first temple where the Ordinances are performed as now, Nauvoo was completed while there was no other temple actively planned.
Even in Utah, thry have the Endowment House oprlerating before planning a new temple.
Of course, before Lubumbashi was announced, I am not sure there was any case of a country having its second time announced less than 4 years after the first was dedicated.
All that to say a temple announced fir a country with an existing temple would be unprecedented, but President Nelson has done so many surprising and unprecedented things with temples, that I would be most surprised if everything happens as expected.
Below is my top 20 picks, ordered by livkeliness. Starting with what I think is most likely.
1. Des Moines, Iowa
2. Florianopolis, Brazil
3. Lehi, Utah
4. El Paso, TeXas
5. Maracaibo, Venezuela
6. Glasgow, Scotland
7. Abuja, Nigeria
8. Kampala, Uganda
9. Chihuahua City, Mexico
10. Cancun, Mexico
11. Poza Rica, Mexico
12. Tulsa, Oklahoma
13. Christ Church, New Zealand
14. Mbuji-Mayi, DR Congo
15. Savannah, Georgia
16. Manchester, New Hampshire
17. Bucaramanga, Colombia
18. Santiago, Dominican Rwpublic
19. 2nd El Salvador
20. Spanish Fork, Utah
Here is the rest of my list.
21. Appleton, Wisconsin
22. Bordeaux, France
23. Enugu, Nigeria
24. Port Harcourt, Nigeria
25. Bo, Sierra Leone
26. Yamasoukro, Ivory Coast
27. Maputo, Mozambique
28. Haapai, Tonga
29. Lima 3rd Temple
30. Sarocaba, Brazil
31. Farmington, Utah
32. Colorado Springs, Colorado
33. Jackson, Mississippi
34. Vina del Mar, Chile
35. Rosario, Argentina
36. Manilla 3rd
37. Tirana, Albania
38. Rapid City, South Dakota
39. Ulama Bator, Mongolia
40. Fillmore, Utah
41. Price, Utah
42. Morgan, Utah
43. Charleston, West Virgina
44. Charleston, South Carolina
45. Buena Vista, Virginia
46. Moristown/Neward/New Brunswick, New Jersey
47. Utica, New York
48. Guatemala City, 3rd
49. Matatenango, Guatemala
50. Piara, Peru
51. Munich, Germany
52. Bristol, England
53. Milan, Italy
54. Prague, Czechia
55. Baltimore, Maryland
56. Virginia Beach/Norfolk, Virginia
57. Little Rock, Arkansas
58. Cheyenne, Wyoming
59. Cuiaba, Brazil
60. Potosi, Bolivia
61. Leeds, England
62. Cardiff, Wales
63. Lima 4th
64. Lima 5th
65. Santiago 3rd
66. Osoro, Chile
67. Everet, Washington
68. Ottawa, Ontario
69. Kingston, Jamaica
70. Waco, Texas
71. Henderson, Nevada
I read that in general the Church does not announce a temple until they have a planned site. So I have the impression there are a lot more temple somewhat planned than announced, and the move to announced is site specific. So I am not convinced having a backlog of planned temples for an area stops more temples if there is a need.
Nigeria has a need. Basically Wven with the temple planned for Akwa Ibom state, there is still enough members in Abia, Rivers and Delta states to justify another temple. I would guess Port Harcourt.
With current membership and growth I could see Abuja and Enugu getting a temple
I am also seeing Lome, Togo and Cape Coast, Ghana getting them.
Arguably South Dakota is a western State, and it has no temple announced or otherwise.
Hawai'i and Alaska are also western and have not had temples announced by President Nelson.
I do think Lahaina will have a temple announced before the end of 2024. I also would not be surprised if a temple is announced for Fairbanks.
Arizona had 4 temples built under President Monson. California had 0 temples announced by President Monson, and Mexico has I believe 2.
I do suspect Arizona will have more temples announced, but I am not sure where or how soon. Queen Creek, Surprise, Flagstaff and maybe Prescott all seem likely, but Flagstaff is probably the most compelling now. I am notcsure it is compelling enough.
I would also love to see one in say Chinle or Vameron on the Navajo Reservation, and one in Tuba City. However with Farmington, New Mexico generating a temple and Monticello, Utah having one, I am not sure what having another temple in that region looks like.
There are a few key difference between Arizona and Idaho. To begin with one might want to compare the total temple square footage, not just the number of temples. Although Teton Valley I think will drive up Idahos numbers there a lot.
Another is the temple use profile for BYU-Idaho is something you do not get in Arizona.
That said, I have said before I think putting a temple on top of the institute building at ASU would make sense.
I think Botswana will probably get a temple before Namibia. It actually has a stake.
I would not be surprised if either Ivory Coast or Sierra Leone become the first country besides the US to have a second temple announced before the first is complete. Although logistically Mozambique may have the most compelling case for this. I am not sure mile per mile Beira will give Maputo a closer temple, although crossing into South Africa may be hard enough that actual time and on cost to go to the temple will decrease.
In my last post the second place I mentioned on the Navajo Reservation was Cameron. Sorry I misspelled it.
I have to admit I do not think a 3rd counselor will be called in the 1st presidency. Until sometime in President Monson's term as ch7rch president virtually all temple dedications were done by 1st presidency members. Now they are regularly done by apostles.
I could be wrong, but I think the current system of delegation, combined with the symbolism of presidencies of 3 makes a 3rd counselor unlikely. Yes I know Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, David O. McKay and Spencer W. Kimball all called additional counselors. However President Hinckley once said something about leaning on the 12 as if thry were additional counselors. We will see, but I think things will stay the same in the first presidency until there is a death.
I think the next most likely event would be to release President Eyring and place him in the 12, and call a current member of the 12 to be a counselor.
I actually think calling a 13th member of the 11 with Elder Holland's poor health is more likely than any counselor change. However since that has never been done, even with many of the 12 in poor health, I doubt it will happen.
Do not forget President Nelson filled a vacancy that had existed in the 12 for over a year.
I'm not saying that isn't true, but I have trouble believing that the church doesn't announce temples before choosing a planned site given the significant wait times between announcement and site releasing and the fact that the Russia temple was never even specified to a city. Just a few days ago, the site for the Lagos Nigeria temple was released almost exactly 5 years after the announcement, and Russia and Cagayan de Oro still don't have locations after 5 years and 5 months. The only explanation I can think of to make sense of it would be if the church announced temples after choosing a suitable site and announced the locations after actually acquiring the property. I could see there being significant delays between choosing a location and purchasing it, but I struggle to see how it could take upwards of 5 years.
I believe Elder Soares is only 3 years younger than Elder Stevenson.
If I count right Elder Stevenson, Soares, Gong and Renlund are all younger than Elder Bednar.
I distinctly remember when I was a child my dad explaining that a certain man was acting president of the 12 because the actual president was not well enough to act as president. I later learned this was Elder Howard W. Hunter acting while Marion G. Romney was in poor health. That is a little different than the acting president being in poor health, but I think it could be applied if it happened to make Elder Uchtdorf acting president of the 12.
I also think with Elder Holland's recent health callenges the chances that Elder Uchtdorf will be president of the Church have risen a lot.
I've been thinking recently, does anyone know of a resource like Rick Satterfield's temple and church units map, but for details over time? It would be very interesting to see what stake growth looked like when temples were announced nearby.
Religlang, To answer your question, I would reference this excellent work that both Matt Martinich and the Cumorah Foundation have put together for each country or state of the world with each Stake / District / Mission color coded by decade. You could possible download it to google Maps the country you are studyinf and hide the units that were created in the next decade for example.
https://www.cumorah.com/countries/worldMap
For example I clicked on the country of Australia to get to this map.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?msa=0&ll=-34.38661585190131%2C143.8408196579685&spn=26.42314%2C46.538086&mid=1Lkjf8GlL_jmXmGLA5A0TM6XnhgA&z=4
Now how often Matt or the Foundation updates the units. I don't know. But at least it is a starting point for you to research unit growth since the temple announcements made.
I hope this is useful in your research. Let me know it that is what you were looking for.
Chris D
Thank you, that does look very useful!
The order of choosing a temple site before announcing a temple was spelled out in a Church News article largely about the Presiding Bishopric I think about a year ago.
I believe the Church chooses a site, but then normally seeks some level 9f local approval before publicly announcing it.
This has not always been the case. When President Hinckley announced the White Plains and Boston Temples were being done instead of Hartford he said they had been unable to find a site for the Hartford Temple, which suggests a site had not been chosen.
In 1980 when President Kimball announced able unprecedented 7 temples at once in meetings leading up to general conference, at least the size and maybe specific sites were pretty much announced then.
When President Hinckley announced plans to build 32 temples in April 1998 they waited until they could announce the temples with specific sites.
From what I have read the Philadelphia Temple was originally intended for a slightly different lot but it was decided that lot would not work.
Then there are the changed site temples. Tegucigalpa is the extreme, where do to extreme opposition to the first site it was moved to a new site and thry had a second ground breaking. Nashville, Tennessee, the first site The Church went to court because the city refused approval. The court basically said a city could set up a system where it was impossible to build any new worship places in that city. Testimony about this case and it's meeting, given by Vaughn Keetch, was later used to boost the case for the Religiois Land Use and Institutionalized Person Act. However in the meantime Nashville Temple was moved to a different city and built on a smaller scale.
Deseret Peak also replaced Toolle Valley, when the sum totL of the Toolle Valley project met too much opposition to proceed.
One issue with some of these other delays may be that it was not possible to get approval for the first planned location and so a new one was chosen.
I have been told with the Paris Temple back in 1998 when President Hinckley said France was ready for a temple, there was a location chosen but there ended up being so much opposition that after many years they decided on another site.
On another matter evidently in 1993 or 1994 President Hinckley, then a counselor in the 1st presidency, was in Ghana seeking a temple site. He was unable yo find a suitable site, so he did not then dpeak publicly on the matter.
I seem to recall that Rick's Temple site used to contain decorations on the temple sites for temples where these were not yet announced but he seems to now only included publicly and officially announced sites.
An interesting thing to add to the announcement of the American Fork Utah Harbor Stake is that the Harbor YSA Ward (in the Lehi Utah YSA stake) was created as well.
The explanation for this may be the chaotic traffic on the island, which is quite cramped for the intense flow.
It may also be that the Church decides on a completely different path, placing the temple far from the coast, in the city of Ipomeia, where the gospel was preached for the first time in Brazil. This would not be good from a logistical point of view for the members of Santa Catarina, but it would make sense from a historical point of view...
I am not confident that any temples in Utah will be announced. The main reason is that temple attendance has been disappointing. Every temple along the Wasatch Front, except for Payson and Salt Lake, have had a temple built to relieve pressure from it. Taylorsville takes pressure off of Jordan River, Draper and Oquirrh. Lindon takes pressure from Mount Timpanogos. Orem takes pressure from Provo. Layton takes pressure off of Bountiful. Syracuse takes pressure off of Ogden. If there is a temple in Utah announced, I expect a rural area temple like Price, Richfield, Delta or Kanab.
Some less likely temples in North America that I would add to the list:
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Riverton, Wyoming
Rock Springs/Green River, Wyoming
Topeka, Kansas
Huntsville, Alabama
Naperville, Illinois
Fargo, North Dakota
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Albany, New York
Grand Prairie, Alberta
Corvallis, Oregon
And finally...Providence, Rhode Island...because why not all 50 states?
Is Deseret Peak not relieving pressure on Salt Lake?
This is close to my list. I might swap Pakistan and Marshall Islands for either Tasmania, Flagstaff, or Osaka. Maybe I’d extend the total to 17 or 18 if I couldn’t eliminate any of these.
The Fairbanks/North Pole, AK and Augusta/Bangor, ME temples would cover 3 of the 4 stakes within North America that are outside a 200 mile radius from an existing temple. (The last would be Juneau, AK).
Bryce, the Church's Mount Timpanogos Utah Temple is in American Fork, and I don't see a second one in that city until temples are built elsewhere here in northern Utah County.
Religlang, not currently. The Deseret Peak Utah Temple won't be finished until mid-to-late next year. But if what I've heard is correct, Salt Lake may not be rededicated until 2028, so Deseret Peak may be operational for 3 years or so before Salt Lake reopens.
Alan, I think you meant "3 of the 4 stakes within" the United States. On the church units map on Rick's temple site, I see 3 stakes in Canada that are outside a 200-mile radius from an existing temple, along with 2 stakes in Mexico and 2 in the Caribbean, 1 in Jamaica and 1 in Trinidad and Tobago. (I believe the Caribbean islands are considered part of North America.) There are also several districts in North America outside that range, including 2 in Canada, 1 in Nicaragua and several in the Caribbean.
(If anyone does not know how to see this, just go to the following link and click on the words "Temple Radius"):
https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/maps/units/
I really enjoy that feature of the maps page, it's amazing to see how well covered some places are, not just North America but also places like the Philippines and West Africa. (And all the stakes and all but one district in the Democratic Republic of the Congo are within 200 miles of one of the 3 announced temples in that nation.) In the meantime, other places like South America still have a long way to go to achieve the 200-mile radius goal.
Yes, I know that Deseret Peak is still in the final stages of construction. What I meant was, it appears to me that Ben is suggesting that there isn't a temple under construction to relieve pressure from Salt Lake, but I would think Deseret Peak is clearly meant to service stakes currently assigned to Salt Lake and thus relieve some of that pressure.
twinnumerouno, I hope to see many of those 200 mile radius gaps in South America closed this conference! A Santa Maria Brazil temple seems most likely, but hopefully Campo Grande Brazil, Cuiabá Brazil, Palmas Brazil, and Neuquén Argentina aren't too far behind
Maybe it would be better listed as Alpine/Lehi—there is a gap between Mt Timp and Oquirrh Mt./Draper. (Also, I have to put Santa Ana/Ahuachapan, El Salvador on my list.)
Yes, sorry, there are 4 US stakes outside of the 200 mile radius. Three in Alaska and one in Maine. South America is getting closer with consistent announcements almost each conference. I love that maps page. It really helps put our 14 hour roundtrip car ride in perspective (when there are people who travel 14 hours each way—with similar winter driving conditions that make the trip even longer and more dangerous). It is awesome to have temples getting closer and more convenient for people throughout the world!
Something that I find is likely is that the Church will eventually launch a program to build small temples (10-15k sqft) and systematically plug the holes on the US map. Those temples may only be open two or three days a week, running a couple sessions each day, but they will tremendously improve access.
Fairbanks and Juneau in Alaska are candidates for this (additionally, I still believe there will be a temple announced in Palmer or Wasilla in the next 10 years; that area is growing and it seems to be mostly LDS-driven growth). But the greater potential for temples of this sort is probably in the high plains and Great Basin:
- Rapid City SD
- Glendive MT
- Lander or Riverton WY
- Rock Springs WY
- Kearney NE
- Garden City KS
- Amarillo TX
- Midland or Odessa TX
- Ely NV
- Fillmore UT
- Burns OR
Eventually, this could be expanded to the Midwest and South, and eventually the East Coast. But those smaller communities with one or two stakes at most that are quite remote are probably good candidates for a new series of small temples.
One thought: it seems to me that building many temples that will only serve one to two stakes could leave those temples vulnerable to potentially having all the stakes in their district closed. This has never happened before because historically, temple districts have been very large and closing stakes was rare, but if, say, a temple were to be built in Garden City Kansas to serve that one stake, and later most of the members moved to larger cities and the stake closed, what would happen to the temple? Would they just demolish it? I'd imagine the Church would rather avoid situations that would result in temple demolition or otherwise closing. Of course, there are already a few temples that only have a couple stakes in their districts, like Memphis Tennessee, Regina Saskatchewan, Halifax Nova Scotia, Winnipeg Manitoba, Colonia Juárez Mexico, Yigo Guam, and temples in various stages of construction/announcement like Okinawa Japan, Dubai UAE, Singapore, Elko Nevada, and Port Vila Vanuatu, etc, but only Okinawa and Singapore so far have one stake - Singapore will serve a lot of districts though.
Sorry for that misunderstanding. Thanks for clarifying.
I completely agree that a 3rd counselor is merited. Personally, I think some tenure cap and emeritus status for apostles would make sense, but *shrug.* This is the world we live in now for whatever reason - lots of political and religious leaders are from 3-4 generations ago. My kids are looking at President Nelson - someone who is SIX generations removed from them - and finding it extremely hard to relate to anything he says. And yes, I realize there are many who insist on having faith in God's timing and all that. I get it. Doesn't change how my kids feel.
@Religlang - I've wondered the same thing about some of the smaller temples being placed in areas where their districts are basically at the bare minimum for support (Winchester VA being the latest). I'm guessing:
1. If they can be open just one weekend a month, they'd do that before demolishing
2. If they can't even keep it open once a month, they'd either close it for an extended period or demolish it.
I don't see the church ever selling a temple, and I agree that they would avoid demolishing it if possible (although there is some precedent for it in Alaska). I think the church sees some value in just having a temple there as marketing.
@James - I agree there. Something very, very, VERY exceptional would have to happen for the Church to sell a temple. The Church is protective enough about its meetinghouses - it seems to have been policy for at least the past few years to demolish meetinghouses before selling the sites to avoid the new owners using it for sacrilegious purposes, and I remember reading about a group of former members who rented an old meetinghouse no longer owned by the church to perform 'un-baptisms' - that I can only imagine what it would be like for a temple. I don't even want to think about what certain people would do if they had access to an abandoned temple. The history of Kirtland (before the RLDS church reacquired the temple) and Nauvoo is bad enough.
Religlang,
I had never heard that about meetinghouses. The church sold the meetinghouse in my hometown 2012. It was built in the early 80's by the church but didn't include a chapel. It was just a first phase building. I think it was a daycare after that at one point. I can see why they would want to avoid selling the buildings if people are doing sacrilegious things in them.
According to The Church News, Elder Andersen completed a ministry tour of Asia. While on Mongolia he encouraged Church members to prepare themselves for the house of the Lord and said that "someday soon" they will have a temple in Mongolia. I am encouraged by the word "soon". That is my wife's country of origin.
I just read a post suggesting that Zimbabwe could get 3 new stakes most likely by April 2024 general conference. This makes a Bulawayo Temple seem much more likely.
L. Chris Jones, the Church News also reported that President Camille Johnson spoke at the Indiana State House while on a ministry Tour this weekend. We all can ponder about future announcements often come from Leadership Ministry travels and local visits.
https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2023/9/13/23870025/president-camille-n-johnson-indiana-visit-ministry
I have to admit that Alan's comment makes me think Fairbanks, Juneau and Augusta will all get temples soon.
Being a temple worker at the Detroit Temple where there is not any defined study room, makes me almost wonder if thos is the long term plan with the Anchorage rebuild. In Toronto I saw they had study rooms on the temple and I thought "we need that in Detroit."
The listed Anchorage endowment capacity does not seem to be going up, although if thry add a chapel instead of directly having people assemble in an ordinance room that would be more space.
Still I wonder of the plan is more study room so they have the space to train extra temple workers as Juneau and Fairbanks Temples are built. Fairbanks I can see, but while there are temple built for 1 or even no stakes, Juneau is such a large stake, I believe it includes the branch in Yukon, that it might functionally have the lowest member base of any temple since when Hawai'i was first built.
For at least dome of the 1920s most of the temple workers in the Hawai'i Temple were full-time missionaries. The temple president also served without counselors for over a decade, and was the only sealer.
I almost think Flora Amussen later Benson was a temple worker at the Hawai'i Temple on her mission in the 1920s. I know she was a teacher at the school in La'ie. The school where at the flag ceremony President McKay had the vision that lead to BYU-Hawai'i, the Plynesian Cultural Center and so much good we do not understand.
While I like writing that today with a Maori at the helm of the PCC, a man of Native Hawai'ian descent at the helm of BYU-Hawai'i and a Tongan who has lived for decades in the Lai'e area heading the Lai'e Temple president McKay vision is complete
However it is not. At some future date a grad of BYU-Hawaii will lead that institution, and then if we look the right way we will see John Kauwe as the end of a long line of BYU trained faculty who came to lead BYU-Hawai'i with somewhat shallow understandings of the culture. OK, President Kauwe did graduate from.Iahuku High School, but he turned 17 while at BYU, and was born in Orem.
All people are complex. As I say of Elder Peter M. Johnson he is the stereotypical African-American, once was a rapper, went to college on a basketball scholarship, became an accountant and then an accounting professor, and you will say the last two don't fit. Well everyone is a mix of the expected and the unexpected. If you try hard enough you can see your common links with any person, and you can define any person as an outsider not of your group.
Just a few to note:
- Rapid City SD (To include Rapid City Stake and Gillette WY stakes. FYI Ellsworth AFB projects an increase of 9,000 Families in the next couple of years due to mission growth. Also, Casper WY is a treacherous 4 hour winter drive, which is better than 5 hours of treacherous winter driving to current Bismarck ND temole.)
- Nephi UT (due to growth and activity)
- Queen Creek AZ (due to growth and activity)
- Colorado Springs CO (due to dangerous winter pass and large number of stakes)
- Mongolia (Strong members, long distance to nearest temple)
- Price UT, Richfield UT, Evanston WY, Far West MO, Buena Vista VA, Dublin Ireland, Scotland, and more in Africa, South America, and Central America.
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/elder-andersen-encourages-saints-in-asia-to-follow-jesus-christ
L. Chris Jones, thank you for the link!
Elder Stevenson was in Iceland recently: https://www.facebook.com/stevenson.gary.e/videos/698960391598941/
First official visit by an Apostle since President Hinckley's visit in 2002, I believe.
It is always fun to see the prognosticators' predictions for new temples. Saints in Scotland were told by David O. McKay that one day there would be a temple in Scotland. He died in 1970. Saints have long held their breath for an announcement. Members need to be paying tithing regularly, attending regularly, etc. My brother and I have speculated for many years that the Scottish temple would be somewhere between Glasgow and Edinburgh. That would be within half an hour of either city, enough to staff a temple with support from the Dundee and Aberdeen stakes.
No particular order:
Ulanbator Mongolia
Spanish Fork/Mapeleton/Springville Utah area
Kampala Uganda
Fairbanks Alaska
Vermont/New Hampshire/Maine
Huancayo Peru (or other central Peru)
Florinapolis Brazil
Other Brazil
Cancun Mexico
Chihuahua Mexico
Other Mexico
El Paso Texas
Colorado Springs Colorado
Pensacola Florida
Flagstaff Arizona
Marshall Islands/Fed. States of Micronesia
Hobart Australia
Christchurch New Zealand
More Philippines
Maui Hawaii (but may wait for recovery efforts first)
Scotland
More Nigeria
More Ghana
Angola
Albania
Ireland
Maracaibo Venezuela
Kingston Jamaica
Santa Ana El Salvador
Tierra del Fuego/Punta Arenas
Neuquen Argentina
Des Moines Iowa
Keeping it to the SW US
Colorado Springs
Flagstaff/Verde Valley
El Paso/Las Cruces
Yuma/Mexicali
I am not sure about a third counselor in the First Presidency. I think that the replacement of one of the councilors is more likely if one of them is no longer capable of holding the position for any reason. Many of the administrative and executive responsibilities of the apostles can be fulfilled by the seventies, so in the event that the majority of the apostles have health problems, they can retain the activities where the keys cannot be delegated and rest in the support of the Presidency of the Seventy and other General Authorities.
My prediction/wish list:
Colorado Springs
Flagstaff
Ulaanbaatar
Edinburgh
Punta Arenas
Cancun
Santa Ana El Salvador
Osaka
Price
Herriman
Is there any precedent for a third councilor?
President Hinckley spoke of this in 1983 and again in 1994 when he was a councilor to Pres. Kimball and then Pres. Benson. Hinckley said "When the president is ill or not able to function fully in all of the duties of his office, his two counselors together comprise a Quorum of the First Presidency. They carry on with the day-to-day work of the presidency. ...But any major questions of policy, procedure, programs or doctrine are considered deliberately and prayerfully by the First Presidency and the Twelve together."
Not sure why all the talk on the first presidency needing a 3rd counsellor. Could they call another one? Sure, but having a fourth apostle in councils isn't necessarily a good thing. I don't really see a need for three counselors unless there is more risk of a continuity problem. I do think a younger apostle would be called to replace President Eyring if he couldn't function sufficiently. Probably one that has a decent chance of becoming the most senior apostle at some point.
I'm guessing 15-20 temples will be announced during October Gen Conf. Here are my guesses, in no particular order:
Top 10
Santiago, Dominican R.
Lehi, Utah, USA
New Jersey, New Jersey, USA
Price, Utah, USA
Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Santa Fe/Rosario, Argentina
Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
Angeles/Dinalupihan, Philippines
Osaka, Japan
Taichung City, Taiwan
My list is more or less looking on a map and seeing where gaps can be filled in. I made this list several months ago, though I attempted to refine it as much as possible Some locations just seem more likely than others to me, which I have listed first. The remaining list is after that.
Seems More Likely
AFRICA
-Cape Coast, Ghana
-Lomé, Togo
-Port Harcourt, Nigeria
ASIA
-Olongapo, Philippines
-Osaka, Japan
CENTRAL AMERICA
-Chihuahua, Mexico
-Poza Rica, Mexico
-Santa Maria, El Salvador
EUROPE
-Edinburgh, Scotland
-Milan, Italy
NORTH AMERICA
-Camarillo, California
-Colorado Springs, Colorado
-Fairbanks, Alaska
-Flagstaff, Arizona
-Herriman, Utah
-Houston, Texas (2nd - south)
-Manchester, New Hampshire
-Milwaukee, Wisconsin
-Nampa, Idaho/Caldwell, Idaho
-Price, Utah
-Queen Creek, Arizona
-Tulsa, Oklahoma
OCEANIA
-Salelologa, Samoa
SOUTH AMERICA
-Osorno, Chile
-Rosario, Argentina
-Sao Jose, Brazil
-Tacuarembó, Uruguay
Remaining
AFRICA
-Abuja, Nigeria
-Bo, Sierra Leone
-Bulawayo, Zimbabwe
-Daloa, Cote d'Ivoire
-East London, South Africa
-Kampala, Uganda
ASIA
-Lahore, Pakistan
-Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
CENTRAL AMERICA
-Cancun, Mexico
-Juchitan, Mexico
-Morelia, Mexico
-Port of Spain, Trinidad
-Reynosa, Mexico
-Santiago, Dominican Republic
EUROPE
-Dublin, Ireland
-Warsaw, Poland/Vilnius, Lithuania
NORTH AMERICA
-Blackfoot, Idaho
-Cincinnati, Ohio
-Cottonwood Heights, Utah
-Des Moines, Iowa
-El Paso, Texas
-Evanston, Wyoming
-Everett, Washington
-Goodyear, Arizona
-Henderson, Nevada
-Lehi, Utah
-Longview, Texas
-Pensacola, Florida/Mobile, Alabama
-Pleasant View, Utah
-Redding, California
-Rigby, Idaho
-Spanish Fork, Utah
-Temecula, California
-Victorville, California/Lancaster, California
OCEANIA
-Christchurch, New Zealand
-Hobart, Australia
-Majuro, Marshall Islands
-Palikir, Micronesia
SOUTH AMERICA
-Chincha, Peru
-Cuiaba, Brazil
-Maracaibo, Venezuela
-Neuquén, Argentina
-Piura, Peru
-Quevedo, Ecuador
-Santa Maria, Brazil
-Tacna, Peru
-Vina del Mar, Chile
I am wondering if one of the reasons The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints demolishes buildings to avoid getting attacked for selling buildings that become eyesore. This especially applies to buildings that are going to take a while to sell. Maintaining an unused building is far more expensive than maintaining an unused lot.
I come at this from living in Detroit. We have far too many abandoned buildings. I know I feel if The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were to change buildings in Detroit I hope it levels the old building. We have too many old unused buildings in this city. We need far more to be leveled.
Related to this, an used lot may well inane cases be more profitable to sell, and thus finance more needed chapels and temples, or at least more of a temple, in Angola or Benin, than would be done by selling a building.
That said the only chapel in Detrout The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints sold was left intact. It was a building that had been built as a Greek Orthodox Church. It had far too large a chapel space, yet periodically did not have enough parking for actual large gatherings. Also because the cultural hall was not linked to the chapel it had far less space for large conferences. Tgus while Gladys Knight and her Saints United Voices Choir performed one night there they did two at our stake center, because that gave more seating.
I also think releasing a member of the First Presidency and calling another of the 12 to it is far more likely than calling an additional member of the 12. No member of the 1st presidency had ever been released for a reason other than death or on the death of the president of the Church since before Joseph Smith died.
Brigham Young's counselors at his death, at least the 1st and 2nd counselors, were never brought back in the 1st presidency. Elder Rudger Clawson was called to the 1st presidency to replace George Q. Cannon, but only days later Lirenzo Snow died. I an not sure Elder Clawson was ever srt apart.
Hugh B. Brown was not brought back in the 1st presidency after David O. McKay died. This seems to have been largely due to ill health. He actually did outlive the person who replaced him in the 1st presidency, Harold B. Lee. However President Leeas a more vigorous and energetic man until he died than President Brown was.
Elder Oaks replacing President Uchtdorf seems to be for different reasons. In part it seems President Nelson feels that the new president benefits from experience in the 1st presidency.
What I think President Nelson shows us is that we should not assume the future will repeat the past. So nothing is impossible, but I think a release of a 1st presidency member and a calling in of another of the 12 is more likely. They did something like this when a member of the Presiding Bishopric was shifted to the 70. However since we do not have 140 current 70 the issues are less pressing.
Still, there are lots of things the 1st presidency uniquely do. Having not all 3 fully functioning is a harder burden, than it is for the 12 to have less than 12 members who can function fully.
One interesting question is could a member of the 1st presidency be placed in the 12, and a seventy be called to the 1st presidency?
I think yes, but I am not saying I think that likely. The 12 can be over 12, they naturally are 14 when the prophet dies, although only 13 when President Monson died. So you can have over 12 in the 12. I am not sure that would be done. President McKay called an additional counselor not in the 12, and at least 5 counselors in the 1st presidency beyond that after Joseph Smith were not previously members of the 12. The 1st presidency was originally organized before the 12.I am pretty sure non of Joseph Smith's counselors were ever members of the 12 first.
I'm guessing around 10-15+ temples announced. Here is my top 20, in no particular order:
- Ulaanbaatar Mongolia
- Osaka or Kyoto Japan
- Savaii Samoa
- Tasmania
- Kampala Uganda
- Port Harcourt Nigeria
- Cape Coast Ghana
- Glasgow Scotland
- Osorno Chile
- Viña del Mar Chile
- Florianópolis/São José Brazil
- Santa Ana El Salvador
- Chihuahua Mexico
- Santiago Dominican Republic
- Cincinnati Ohio
- Des Moines Iowa
- Tulsa Oklahoma
- Colorado Springs Colorado
- Flagstaff Arizona
- Coeur d'Alene Idaho
If they do one in des moines it be small there only like 4 stakes they could put into the district
I think a Des Moines Iowa Temple would serve at least the 2 Des Moines stakes, Cedar Rapids and Iowa City stakes. That is as many or maybe more stakes than Cleveland Temple will serve. It is more stakes than some temples serve.
I think Des Moines is a strong candidate for getting a temple. It would take some from Winter Quarters, but the number of stakes in Omaha metro area and Nebraska is enough for another temple.
It would also cut down on Nauvoo, but Nauvoo gets enough far afield visitors that I do not think that matters. I believe my sisters once went to Nauvoo for the wedding of one of their BYU roommates. She was I think from Missouri, but the Kansas City area so Nauvoo was not her closest Temple. It was before Kansas City Temple was built, so the logistical choices for Nauvoo were different then. However I am sure Nauvoo has lots of Temple goers from far beyond its district at all times.
I went to Nauvoo a couple of times when living in Illinois. It was not during the main season but in spring and early fall (I believe) when the weather was still nice enough to enjoy the historic sites. The temple was largely empty. My wife and I were in a sealing session Saturday morning with just temple workers. It was lovely because we got about 40 of our names done, but it would have been nice to see some other patrons. I believe the Church is looking at year-round patronage when deciding to build new temples in order to gain a more realistic view of capacity. That may be why no temple has been announced in Iowa. However, I also believe this will change within the next couple of years.
Nauvoo currently has Nauvoo, Davenport, Peoria, Iowa City and Cedar Rapids assigned. We shall see. I still think Cincinatti, Des Moines, Appleton and maybe even Rapid City are all strong contenders for temples.
If we are to make temples an integral part of Church members experience we need them closer to many more members.
Looking at maps I am thinking Muritta, California might be a better place than Temecula to get a temple. I could see one for that general area. I also think a Ventura County Temple is needed.
I'm not going to guess a lot of temple locations, but I do think Little Rock, Arkansas should get one soon. Little Rock is the northern most point of that stake. The wards and branches in the southern part travel 3-4 hours each direction to get to a temple. the new Bentonville temple takes longer to get to than the Memphis one. Little Rock could support a temple, but it would leave Memphis with only a few stakes.
I also think the Longview area of Texas and the Houston area should get temples announced soon.
James, Elder Holland directly addresses the question of age and why the call to the apostleship is lifelong:
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/the-blessings-of-age-elder-holland-essay-on-the-first-presidency
What Elder Holland outlines spells out why there never has been nor ever will be an emeritus status for apostles. Seasoned men of maturity have developed skills and had experiences over decades that uniquely qualify them to serve the remainder of their lives. Why should it be otherwise?
Isaiah 55:8-9 reminds us that the Lord's ways and thought are higher than our ways and thoughts. So why are older men given a lifelong call to the apostleship? Their decades of experience qualify them to meet the challenges of our time.
That being said, even though the members of this First Presidency are, as Elder Holland reports, in excellent health, they are getting older. So an additional counselor or two could lower the average age and the younger counselors could travel more, and filling any vacancies in the Twelve would then inject more youth and health into the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and lower the average age of all apostles. The Lord's system works. Why change it?
Today I attended the Bentonville Temple dedication presided over by Elder Bednar, and WOW! Amazing. This was sort of a homecoming for the Bednars as they lived in NW Arkansas for many years, raised their kids here, and he was stake president here. He broke down twice during the first ceremony as he was overcome with joy. He mentioned that the church will dedicate "approximately" 15 temples this year, 25 next year, 35 the year after that, and at least 40 each year after that (he also said don't go blasting this all over the internet, so you didn't here it from me). As he reflected over the number of temples dotting the globe today he said "and you aint seen nothing yet." This is exciting to hear, although similar sentiments have been expressed here and there among other general authorities. I really shouldn't say some of the other things he said, but I will mention a side conversation he recounted that he had once with President Hinckley in which Pres. Hinckley couldn't contain himself from repeating to then-president Bednar that this is the greatest season of the restoration, "and I won't see it but you will."
That being said, here's my temple prediction.
Thanks,
Michael Spencer
1. Mongolia
2. Colorado Springs
3. Uganda
4. Neuquen, Arg.
5. Houston, TX (#2)
6. Maracaibo, Ven.
7. Little Rock, Ark.
8. Abuja
9. Edinburgh, Scotland
10. Piura, Peru
11. Santiago, DR
12. Chihuahua, Mex.
13. Angeles, Phil.
14. Osaka, Japan
15. North Ogden
16. Cottonwood Hts, UT
17. Lehi, UT
18. Cuiaba, Brazil
19. Des Moines, IA
20. Vina del Mar, Chile
Even with the temple in Arkansas Kansas City Temple still has 10 stakes in it district
The Des Moines Stakes are certainly hoping for a temple announcement in Iowa (for us here, preferably in Des Moines). The location of closest temples (Winter Quarters, St. Paul, Nauvoo, Kansas City, and to a lesser extent Chicago and St. Louis) does make one wonder whether Des Moines or Iowa City will be the location of the first temple in Iowa, so as to reduce travel times for the most amount of patrons possible.
Some Des Moines-area suburbs are equidistant between the Winter Quarters and Kansas City temples; for other members of our stake, Kansas City is significantly closer (despite our Stake being assigned to the Winter Quarters district). Des Moines as a temple location does not really cut town driving time for much of the Iowa City and Cedar Rapids Stakes currently assigned to Nauvoo. Iowa City would minimally cut down on driving time from Des Moines to Omaha (again, depending on where in the metro you live).
Having lived in the Iowa City Stake as well, I can echo prior comments regarding Nauvoo not being all that busy, especially during non-tourist season, unless you are there on a Saturday. There is also always the challenge of the river crossing. I'm positive we're not the only ones who have missed their planned/scheduled session due to an unanticipated barge coming up or down the river and having to sit while the toll bridge at Fort Madison opens and closes to allow passage. (It has been several years since we were last at Nauvoo, so this may not be an issue anymore).
Given the number of members in DSM and the surrounding area, a temple on the eastern side of Des Moines maybe shortens the travel time for the most people; travelers from the Iowa City and Cedar Rapids areas won't have to drive across the metro, and it would allow pretty easy access from Ames and northern Iowa as well. But the metro is growing mostly to the west and membership is primarily located in those suburbs, so from that viewpoint a location in the western part of the metro makes more sense. But that leads you back to the question of whether it is actually easing temple access in terms of driving time for the most members. I'm interested to see what ends up happening, if a temple is announced here.
Looking at maps I am thinking Murietta, California might be a better place than Temecula to get a temple. I could see one for that general area. I also think a Ventura County Temple is needed.
I wonder Aldo about a temple in San Luis Obispo. That might occur.
A temple in California north of San Francisco, say Santa Rosa, would be neat.
Utah I think Spanish Fork and Lehi are likely the two next.
However Tremonton, Hyrum, Morgan, Delta and Herriman all seem possible in the not too distant future
Nampa and Blackfoot Idaho may be seen soon.
Colorado Springs is expected. Same with Rapid City and Des Moines.
Cincinatti, Ohio, Charleston, West Virhinia, Charleston South Carolina, somewhere in North-east New Jersey, Albany or Utica, New York, Manchester, New Hampshire. Augusta, Maine, Baltimore, Maryland, Buena Vista, Virginia and Jackson, Tennessee seem likely. I think Texas will see El Paso, Longview and southern metro Houston.
Tulsa, Oklahoma also seems likely.
I think Champaign, Illinois is a contender.
Somewhere in eastern North Carolina also seems likely. I have not worked out which city.
there are really no members in des moines, they are in west des moines or ankney i mean the bishop for the des moines ward lives all the way in Bondurant and his consuler is in mitchville and most of the ward lives in altoona which is no where near des moines very few members actally live in des moines
A lot of the guesses (and that's all they are for another twelve days) sound good to me. Not Baltimore, though, for reasons I expressed last time around. One thing to consider about temple locations is that the Brethren don't necessarily look for what's "hot" at the moment, but what they see making sense in fifty years or so. So based on what's posted, I think if Des Moines gets a temple, it will be on the west side, for instance.
Another thing to consider, of course, is that a site might be under consideration but not announced right away. For every twenty temples announced, I think another thirty fit that category, and most of those might be announced in the next couple of years.
So we shall continue to speculate, but based on the last few Conferences, we need to expect the unexpected.
What I would like to know, somewhat unrelated, is when the Billings mission will be divided. Four temples I can understand, because it's so big and spread out, and hard to get around in the winter. But it's carrying seventeen stakes - it picked up NE Wyoming when the Rapid City mission moved to Bismarck.
The city of Des Moines is split between four wards, not just one, and many many members live in the city of Des Moines. The Des Moines metro is growing towards the north, northeast, northwest, and west. DSM metro is the fastest-growing metro in the Midwest and it is projected that growth will continue in every direction until the 2050's.
Iowa needs two temples. One in central Iowa (2 stakes in DSM and 1 in Ames) and one in eastern Iowa (Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, and Davenport stakes). Nauvoo is close to splitting and should retain at the very least 2 stakes once a central Illinois temple is dedicated or between 3 and 5 without a central Illinois temple.
Central Iowa could have 3 more stakes by 2050 and Eastern Iowa should have at least 2 more by the same date.
Michael Worley, I see your point to a point. But President Nelson has proven to be an "act now" prophet when he has been so inspired. With him nearing 100 and his counselors both over 90, why wait?
That gap was closed a little bit with the August 13 dedication of the Saratoga Springs Utah Temple. I'd expect a Lehi temple in the short term (I live there, and we've had explosive growth) and Alpine down the line (2-5 years or so). With Saratoga Springs dedicated, once the temples in Orem and Lindon are operating, I'd also anticipate a potential renovation of the Mount Timpanogos Utah Temple.
the general primary and young women leaders will be in iowa soon and relief society there going to be in iowa city and des moines area
there is one ward in des moines and most of those members dont even live anywhere near des moines now west des moines has wards and so does ankeny but not des moines hardly any members live in des moines i guess it to poor for them. they have to live in the rich suburbs
anonymous, my understanding is that one company is extensively training their employees on building the modules so that the employees can be contracted out to other companies to train them on the process. The hope some days is to have multiple companies on board to mass-produce the modules. When that's in place, several dozen modular temples are anticipated to be built around the world, especially in areas where they are most needed. Not sure how long it will take to get to that point, but that's the plan.
Lehi could see both a northeast and west temple. DB Horton mentioned a property two years ago in a city plsnning meeting, two hours into a six-hour meeting due to that same growth it was that long, May be near SR-92 near the Highland and Utah County line.
I am thinking a west temple will go near the Jordan River, but nt west of it, and not too close either. Definitely south of the 194 feeders (freeway construction may start in 2026), and north of Pioneer Crossing (SR-145).
Lehi could see both a northeast and west temple. DB Horton mentioned a property two years ago in a city plsnning meeting, two hours into a six-hour meeting due to that same growth it was that long, May be near SR-92 near the Highland and Utah County line.
I am thinking a west temple will go near the Jordan River, but nt west of it, and not too close either. Definitely south of the 194 feeders (freeway construction may start in 2026), and north of Pioneer Crossing (SR-145).
One stake (or less) temple districts:
Okinawa Japan: I'm assuming Okinawa is going to have a stake and a military district. It's in a mission that already has a temple so I can't say it will be a temple for an entire mission.
Singapore: This was announced before the Jakarta temple was announced. So at the time of announcement, it had more than one stake. But now Singapore Stake and five Malaysian districts once all currently announced temples are complete (assuming no growth).
Shanghai: PRC congregational information is not published, but I'm assuming it's all considered districts. Cumorah.com estimated 12k members in the mainland.
Budapest Hungary: One stake in Hungary and districts in other countries likely to be in its temple district. It's unclear whether a stake in Albania will also be in its temple district.
The UAE and Vanuatu only has one stake, but their announced temples are expected to include stake(s) in countries that would be in its temple district.
I think I've covered them all. If I'm missing any, let me know.
My thoughts:
Okinawa has always had a special place in the Church, warranted probably more by history than by real, sustained membership base. I believe the Church is trying out a bit of a new paradigm here: if the main mode to attend the temple involves flying and there is a stake in that location, a temple will most likely be announced there in the next couple of years. Okinawa seems like a good place to try this in practice.
Budapest: Tirana is a major temple candidate in my opinion, but Rome or Frankfurt (and someday Vienna) are likely more accessible in practice.
Vanuatu: Similar to the Port Vila Mission, expect the temple to include New Caledonia and the Solomon Islands. Currently the Church is undergoing a significant spur of growth in the Solomon Islands.
For the one-stake temple districts: I would image it will take a lot out of a stake to support a temple on their own.
Tahiti only had one stake when the temple was announced. It still has one of the longest times from when the Church was established there until the first temple was completed. I think 139 years. Mozambique will be about 35 years by the time it gets a temple.
Laie Hawai'i Temple, London Temple, Swiss Temple, and Hamilton New Zealand Temple were all built without stakes. In the case of the Swiss and London Temple in part because it was hard to stop church members going to the USA from Europe until there was a temple in Europe.
I think there is a big difference though between a truly one stake temple and a one stake five districts temple.
Okinawa is at one stake one district. However it is super far from anywhere else. The question in my mind is will Honshu get the next temple in Japan, or will it be another island. I am thinking it will be Kobe or Okayama or another place in the south/west of Honshu. I think the north of Honshu may some day get a temple, but I do not expect it super soon.
Puerta Princessa in the Philippines may be a candidate for a one stake temple.
Luanda, Angola is the only other one I see likely. However the Luanda Stake is close to splitting, so if they do not announce Luanda this month it will probably not be a one stake temple.
Winnipeg was announced as a one stake temple.
New Delhi, India is about the only other likely one stake temple I can think of. Although Tirana, Albania has a vague chance.
Another factor in Japan is the best roads, the expressways, are all tolled and quite expensive at that. Even the weekends is a 1000 yen toll max but that is far better than the weekdays. These have numbers now prefixed with E outsifde the city networks.
The national routes between cities are slow, busy, and often clogged with traffic and most are two-lane and in the mountains, quite curvy, so you do not make much time, R1 from Tokyo to Osaka is always busy, R2 from Osaka to across from Fukuoka fares a little better and there are some free bypass expressways like at Okayama. The R2 bypass through that location still takes an hour even in good traffic to fully cross Okayama.
The Kiev Ukraine Temple was announced before there was a stake there, but by the time it was dedicated a stake was created.
I also anticipate that 15 announcements per conference will be common and eventfully the number of temple dedications will catch up. It may not occur until 2028 looking at the queue of temples under construction. That seems to be the pace needed to reach 500 announced temples by 2030. I went to a presentation by a former church architect at the church library a few weeks ago and he confirmed the number of meetinghouses constructed in the past few years in very low. So the church has reallocated those resources to temples.
For all those that are interested, here my temple bracket that I have been sharing every conference for October 2023:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aoBNDiEIeEyaZyxJ2D3ewtpDZx6Sljoe/view?usp=sharing
Here are my favorite picks for this time around:
Santiago Dominican Republic
Santa Ana El Salvador
Lima Peru South
Viña del Mar/Valparaiso Chile
São José/Florianópolis Brazil
Osaka Japan
Kampala Uganda
Dublin Ireland
New Jersey
Charleston West Virginia
South Houston Texas
Honolulu Hawaii
Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Flagstaff Arizona
Herriman Utah
@Religlang
I appreciate you sharing that pioneer history of Alamosa, Colorado. I looked at it out of curiosity.
It looks like the document doesn't say exactly who predicted a San Luis Valley Temple, but that it was done by someone who "manifested the gift of tongues."
The prediction was made at a Quarterly Stake Conference of the SanPete, Utah Stake (in Manti), on August 17th or 18th, 1878 (presided over by Apostle Erastus Snow - who'd been sent there under the direction of The Presiding Brethren and The Prophet, Brigham Young).
More specifically, it was made at a meeting held by Bishop Hans Jensen (who'd been called, along with others, to settle the San Luis Valley in Colorado.)
The record is unclear as to whether it was a leader (or who exactly) made the prediction, but they recorded it in the Stake Conference's Manuscript. The context of the history indicates that, whoever made it, they believed the prediction was made by the influence of the Spirit of God.
So, I'm adding it to my list of potential future announcements. :)
How good is public transit to get to the temples in their respective districts? In Japan?
Top 20 Globally:
Santa Ana, El Salvador
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Kampala, Uganda
Yamoussoukro, Ivory Coast
Ulaanbaarar, Mongolia
Osaka, Japan
Edinburgh, Scotland
Flagstaff, Arizona
Rosario, Argentina
Vina Del Mar, Chile
Price, Utah
Caldwell, Idaho
Santiago De Los Caballeros, D. Republic
North Ogden, Utah
Savai’i, Samoa
Cape Coast, Ghana
Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
Florianopolis, Brazil
Hobart, Tasmania
Cincinnati, Ohio
Top 20 Globally:
Santa Ana, El Salvador
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Kampala, Uganda
Yamoussoukro, Ivory Coast
Ulaanbaarar, Mongolia
Osaka, Japan
Edinburgh, Scotland
Flagstaff, Arizona
Rosario, Argentina
Vina Del Mar, Chile
Price, Utah
Caldwell, Idaho
Santiago De Los Caballeros, D. Republic
North Ogden, Utah
Savai’i, Samoa
Cape Coast, Ghana
Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
Florianopolis, Brazil
Hobart, Tasmania
Cincinnati, Ohio
Matt -- what do you think about a temple in San Tan Valley, Arizona? There are rumors that the church acquired a large plot of land there last year. The church is also growing very quickly out there as members are relocating there.
Matt, a question about your list: why did you list São José and not Florianópolis in the top ten ? You know anything else, for exemple, about properties of The Church in that region ?
Breckenfeld,
From comments posted elsewhere a few times, Florianópolis has some serious logistics issues that make placing a Temple within it problematic. The is apparently only one bridge connecting it to the mainland and the traffic can get quite bad which would make it very difficult for those coming from the interior or elsewhere to complete the last leg of their journey. Also, I guess the city itself is quite built up so real estate is at a premium making obtaining an appropriate parcel of land potentially prohibitive, unless one has already been acquired and has been being held for the purpose of building a Temple.
For these reasons, and possibly others, the majority of people who share their opinions on this, favour São José for any Temple in the area.
I keep seeing all of these predictions for Flagstaff Arizona. Is that just because they created a Flagstaff mission? I've been told that the Snowflake temple has had low attendance numbers, so taking the 2 Flagstaff stakes away doesn't seem practical. A Flagstaff temple would probably include the Prescott, Prescott Valley, and Cottonwood stakes too but wouldn't actually be any closer for Prescott or Prescott Valley than the Phoenix temple currently is. If they instead put a temple in Prescott Valley, it would better serve those 3 stakes (Prescott, PV, and Cottonwood). So my vote is for Prescott Valley.
Also predicting Queen Creek, Arizona and maybe Buckeye, Arizona because those areas are growing like crazy.
And fingers crossed for Milan, Italy. They are assigned to go to the Rome temple even though the Swiss temple is closer. Both are still like a 5-6 hour drive though so they could really use their own temple. It is probably just a matter of finding enough temple workers.
Tks Craig !!!
The 200 mile radius on Rick's map is also a straight line or "as the bird flies" distance. The actual travel distance is longer due to natural and manmade barriers such as geography (mountains, rivers, etc) and buildings or how streets and roads are designed. So I wonder how they define the 200 mile criteria for temple distance.
Do you think in the near future they will announce temples on a non conference weekend?
Post a Comment