Today, President Russell M. Nelson announced plans to construct new temples in 15 cities. These cities include:
- Retalhuleu, Guatemala
- Iquitos, Peru
- Teresina, Brazil
- Natal, Brazil
- Tuguegarao City, Philippines
- Iloilo, Philippines
- Jakarta, Indonesia
- Hamburg, Germany
- Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
- San Jose, California
- Bakersfield, California
- Springfield, Missouri
- Winchester, Virginia
- Charlotte, North Carolina
- Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
With today's announcement, there are now 315 temples that are planned, under construction, or dedicated in the Church.
In the coming days, I will provide additional posts that conduct an analysis of each new temple announced.
111 comments:
Bakersfield was a no brainier.
Called Hamburg and Springfield - gotta give myself a pat on the back before moving on.
I think I see a bit of a pattern here. We keep hearing about Kansas City and how difficult it is to get appointments there. It's similar in Frankfurt, especially on Fridays and Saturdays, when traveling from a place like Hamburg is realistic for more people with full-time jobs. Those are two absolutely warranted announcements, even though they are likely going to be perceived as underdogs by those less familiar with the Church in the respective areas.
It is clear to me that the Church is serving Brazil region by region, and in the next conference President Nelson will turn to the South of the country. In October, we will most likely have announcements for Florianópolis and Santa Maria.
Lethbridge is a shock, it's less than an hour away from the Cardston Temple and it'll cut down on the patrons there, it's interesting for sure.
Perhaps they will renovate Cardston in a few years and will need one in lethbridge? But yeah, I was curious about Lethbridge too. I'm happy for them though! For everyone!
I figured the next Canada temple would be Victoria then Lethbridge, but I don't find it to be that much of a surprise. Lots of students and members in Lethbridge. This will make it easier for them to attend.
It will reduce demand on Cardston for sure.
I've only been to Cardston once, on a Saturday in the summer, and it was wedding after wedding after weeding. I suspect people will still want to go there for weddings.
I think I have figured out more of the calculus with this past iteration of my prediction map. 87% of the temples announced were on the temple prediction map - the highest I have had in some time. I was quite pleased to see several more likely temples announced today that I have had on my list for many years, like Bakersfield, Charlotte, and Iquitos. I am glad I was more aggressive with the less likely locations list - temples announced today that I added in February 2023 included Hamburg, Harrisburg, Lethbridge, and Retalhuleu. The two temples announced that were not on the most recent temple predictions map were Winchester Virginia (will serve only probably two stakes, both of which are medium-sized in terms of the number of units, that are located in Virginia and Maryland and was completely unexpected) and Tuguegarao (I thought about it, but I thought it was unlikely because Santiago was recently announced, and I figured Laoag would be more likely). Only 2 of my 10 most likely locations for temple predictions were announced (Charlotte and Iquitos).
Winchester surprised me too, but it does make sense. It will serve as an alternate to Washington for those who work just outside DC but live way west - and that will only grow as Metro's Silver Line extends to at least the Dulles Airport. Plenty of people in Virginia will be willing to come up I-81, or in West Virginia I-64 to I-81, before a temple comes to Roanoke, VA or Charleston, WV.
Bakersfield fills a gap on the CA 99 corridor. San Jose makes sense as Oakland is not that easy to get to from there.
Springfield, MO surprised me, but it would serve several stakes.
Harrisburg makes sense considering how crowded Philadelphia is - and there are plenty of Phila.'s workers who live in that area, who could be a nucleus for staffing it.
Well, in my list I pointed on the temple predictions page I got 5 right, Bakersfield, San Jose, Charlotte, Hamburg, Iquitos and Jakarta. I however had 69 on that list. If you throw enough darts some will hit, but I still missed a lot.
A more interesting list of 16 I placed on Facebook yesterday only had San Jose and Charlotte.
I am surprised there were no new temples for Africa anywhere. Utah, Idaho and Arizona not included surprised me.
I still have not figured out where the two in the Philippines are.
I have mentioned Winchester somewhere as a needed spot if The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints us serious about a temple within an hour for all members.
When me and my wife took the grandkids to the DC Temple open house we stayed in Loufldoun County, and may have gone to church in the Winchester Stake.
Harrisburg really gave me joy. That Pennsylvania has a 3rd temple announced, a state with 0 announced temples when President Hinckley died is awesome.
Also Pennsylvania now has more temples announced than missions. At current trend rates by 2026 or so there may be more temples announced than missions.
The two Brazil Temples I believe are in the North, last conference 2 temples in the south of Brazil were announced.
Springfield Missouri dud surprise me. It is not that far from Bentonville, but probably further than I imagine.
Lethbridge is a little but not much surprising.
Bakersfield is probably a strong candidate, but San Jose is not exactly a quick trip to Oakland. Traffic there is horrible. Still the decline of stake in the bay area makes this to some a surprise, but I had consistently included it.
Mexico not getting at least one surprised me a little, but 6 were announced for Mexico last year.
Guatemala getting another is awesome, even if I did not predict it.
Iquitos I thought would be after more for Lima. Lima still needs more, but all things have an order.
Hamburg is an awesome addition.
The idea about students in Lethbridge is a good point. This might be the next temple on the Ephraim model.
Plus, is it really doable to go from Lethbridge to Cardston and back on a weeknight for those who work? Making that an option for most members is key.
Also, Kethbridge buts some areas much closer to the temple.
I think Virginia becomes the first state to have a second temple announced where the first temple was announced by President Nelson.
Part of me says Harrisburg and Winchester make Baltimore really unlikely, but some days I am not sure any temple being announced makes any other no longer reasonable.
The Philippines Area now has 11 total planned temples and Asia 10 with just 2 operating each, while Africa West is at 9 with 2. I am hoping this fall will be the time for Africa West. Also hoping we soon get dedication dates for Ivory Coast Temple. Thailand has dedication dates so Asia will soon be to 3 temples, and with Urdaneya having the president and matron announced it will soon be to 3 temples as well. The Philippines are almost to what Mexico was in numbers of temples in 1999.
Is Winchester more of a rural Appalachian community, or more of a DC exurb?
Winchester and the surrounding Frederick County have a population of about 120,000 people. There are another 20,000 or more in the adjacent West Virginia County.
Tuguegarao makes me now think Laoag is more likely to get a temple.
Loilo shows how the multiplicity of islands in the Philuppines means more temples. If it was land to Bacolob a temple might not be as likely.
Teresina is a non-coastalnirthern Brazil city getting a temple.
This makes me think Aracujo and Sao Luis are now contenders, but there are Santa Maria, Sorocaba and Flirianopolis in the south.
President Nelson has now announced more temples for California than President Hinckley did. North America West area has I think 21 total temples.
North America Central is at 32 I believe. This is for now the most for any area. I could easily see North America Central getting more announced this year.
Winchester is both, as the DC exurbs continue to push west. I think it is in Baltimore mission (it once was), while I know Harrisburg is in Baltimore mission as well.
I think at this point Annapolis is a more likely temple site than Baltimore.
I think I undercounted temples. Both California and the Philippines are to 12. I missed Fresno in my counts, so right now President Nelson and President Hinckley announced the same number of temples for Caifornia.
The Philippines have 2 temples with 10 announced. I think that is what Mexico was to at the point Colonia Juarez was dedicated.
Winchester is said by the newsroom article to be 75 miles west of DC. In DC traffic this would be over 2 hours drive to the temple.
It's more an ex-urb than rural Appalacian though very much transitioning between the two and developing (so, not yet like Arlington or Bethesda and other near suburbs to DC, but not hill country either). A lot of the growth in DC is headed out to West VA and that part of VA these days as well. So the temple is certainly positioned to capture that. It is in an area with more than just 2 stakes if you account for state lines. There are 2 or 3 stakes in the "outer ring" of VA DC communities (Winchester, Gainsville, maybe Ashburn), but also easily 2 or 3 just accross the border in the north east corner of West VA (Martinsburg, Petersburg and maybe Clarksburg), and easily 1 or 2 in the panhandle of MD (Hagerstown, maybe Frederick). It's surprising since is only 90 minutes (without traffic, which is a nightmare, especially on the VA side of DC, and could easily add an additional 30 min to 1 hour on the DC beltway) for the DC Temple, but makes sense when you start digging into it.
It certainly opens up Baltimore in ways I had not previously considered. However, its It's a ways off yet. The Baltimore Coordinating Council only has about 6 stakes (It might be up to 8 now, with the recently created Hagerstown and Gettysburg) most of which are spread accross northern MD and parts of PA and W VA. The Baltimore CC only just barely gots its own area authority last year (previously, the area authority oversaw the Baltimore, DC North, and DC South coordinating council. Now there are 2 forvthe same area). Baltimore proper only has about 1 stake, which only grows to about 2 or 3 when you throw in the immediate suburbs (Columbia and Annapolis), both of which are south of Baltimore and so fairly close to the DC Temple in Kensington, MD.
Winchester is in the Baltimore Mission. Harrisburg I believe is not. I believe the mission ends in Chambersburg and and Lancaster.
I believe Annapolis is highly unlikely. Only 1 stake that cuts pretty deep into MD for its membership. Annapolis is in the DC North CC, which only has 5 stakes, and its still pretty accessible to DC. Annapolis (while a charming city) is also much smaller population wise. It's only the 24th largest city in MD. By comparison, Columbia (which borders Baltimore, the largest) is the second largest by population (though it does somewhat sit between Baltimore and Annapolis). You also have Ellicott City (7th) Glen Burnie (8th) as immediate suburbs to Baltimore. So, the bulk of the population )that is not DC based) is in and around Baltimore.
Harrisburg is in Baltimore mission along with Lancaster, unless for some reason it went back to Pittsburgh mission at some point. I know it's not in Philadelphia mission. (I can't check CDOL anymore.)
Place ranks don't really matter, especially the way lines are drawn in that part of Maryland. What matters is where the members are. I could see a temple somewhere along I-97 between Baltimore and Annapolis, or maybe east of Annapolis. I can't see one on the north side of Baltimore until Baltimore stake starts to grow. (Not that the two stakes in Delaware are growing.)
I served in the Baltimore mission from 2014 to 2016 and I can say I was not expecting a temple for Winchester before a temple in more established areas of the mission such as Columbia, MD. The area is pretty rural. I could see the temple being quite small and serving a only handful of stakes in the area. For sure the Winchester stake, the Martinsburg West Virginia stake, and possibly the Chambersburg Pennsylvania stake, although I'm not sure if most of the units in that stake are closer to Harrisburg. The Frederick Maryland stake may also be closer as getting to DC from northern Maryland is a nightmare. Very exciting development for sure!
Harrisburg is just outside of the Baltimore mission. The closest to Harrisburg the mission gets is Carlisle, PA. The Lancaster and York areas are also in the Baltimore mission
These are the 7 Stakes of the 12 Cardston Alberta Temple District, that i believe would be reassigned to the Lethbridge Alberta Temple.
Fort Macleod Alberta
Lethbridge Alberta
Lethbridge Alberta East
Lethbridge Alberta North
Lethbridge Alberta YSA
Medicine Hat Alberta
Taber Alberta
Leaving these other 5 to stay with the Cardston Alberta District
Cardston Alberta
Cardston Alberta West
Cranbrook British Columbia
Magrath Alberta
Raymond Alberta
Any thoughts?
I correctly predicted the exact location for 9 locations, the right general region but the wrong specific cities for the 2 Philippines Temples and Guatemala's newest temples and 3 US Temples (Missouri, Virginia, and Pennsylvania).
That being said, the Harrisburg Temple will be in close proximity to the Susquehanna River, so that temple could be named in honor of where the priesthoods were restored in 1829.
Anyways that's my two cents on these announcements.
John - You are right , of course, that place ranks are not dispositive. However, I mentioned the ranks only because of the general correlation between population and membership density. Columbia is geographically smaller than Annapolis, but with roughly the same number of members. You can get the same membership density in Annapolis as the Columbia/Baltimore area, but have to move further west, which puts you in the Silver Spring Stake, cannibalizing the DC Temple home turf (I live in the area, and can back that up with first hand experience. The main membership centers are Columbia/Baltimore and DC/North DC Suburbs in Montgomery County. Annapolis is very much the periphery). There is also a concern how few members there will be for the large DC temple, which I think would temper the need for an Annapolis temple for the foreseeable future (though the Church is always surprising). Perhaps with more growth in the long term though you will be proven right (I believe they hope to develop another stake or 2 on the MD side of the Potomac in the future).
I suspect you might be right on the potential for the 97 corridor. However, I maintain it would be closer to Baltimore to better serve it and Columbia. Probably near Patapsco/BWI Airport/Linthincum Heights (which also has a good public transit connections to downtown Baltimore). Even half way up that 97 corridor (Odenton-ish) you are only about 1 hour from the DC temple with traffic (maybe 1.5 if it is really bad), which gets into the issue of cannibalization of DC District.
Unknown already weighed in below, but I also checked on CODL. Harrisburg is in Pittsburgh Mission (I was curious to whom it belonged)
Everyone in Bakersfield is assuming the new temple will be on an empty parcel of land the corner of Stockdale Hwy & Jewetta Ave in SW Bakersfield. Big enough for a 30,000 sq ft temple plus new meetinghouse
Sorry. I meant to say that I had the correct general regions (nations) but the wrong specific locations for the 2 Philippines temples and the newest Guatemala temple. And what I meant to say about the temples in Missouri, Virginia, and Pennsylvania is that I didn't have temples for any of those three states on my radar. Sorry for any confusion about that.
A temple for eastern Maryland may be a ways off. Anything a significant distance from Washington gets into areas that are more spread out and aren't really growing. (Baltimore stake has been stagnant for a long time, while Wilmington and Dover stakes have lost units since they were divided in 2012.)
So Harrisburg is in Pittsburgh mission. That's fine. Mission boundaries take some strange turns in Pennsylvania.
In the meantime, I can think of a couple of possible temple presidents for Harrisburg . . .
while trying to take in the rest of Conference.
Progress in the Philippines and Brazil are steady, yet the one-hour rule for a temple is still far from true. Guatemala is pretty amazing. How many languages do they do ordinances in those temples there? Ten? That would be pretty sweet to hear and witness.
I suppose the Winchester Temple will be easier for SVU students to attend, but then again perhaps Richmond would be as easy. I like that a temple is going there as opposed to Sierra Vista. This location will help thousands of Saints in Maryland, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia.
Could Delaware get a temple before another place in Maryland? Harrisburg will take a lot of Maryland members, too.
I think there is steady growth in Germany, the northern part makes sense.
I believe the state of Missouri has a good concentration of faithful beyond many of its neighboring states. Interesting combination of the mid-west and South.
More temple usage in Southern Albert makes a lot of sense.
Charlotte is a big, growing city.
A very good day for temple zeitgeist. Thanks to all who do research, submit names, and do the work for our kindred loved ones.
PS: Any word on the Kiev Temple lately?
@Chris D. There are also two Montana Stakes that are currently in the Cardston Temple District, whether or not that will change I don't know. So, something that is happening here is we have two or three wards and branches that are attending our temple but the stakes they are in as attached to another temple so maybe something like that will happen to Cardston. At any rate Cardston's attendance just went down
@Daniel Moretti, I agree that a temple somewhere in the interior of Rio Grande do Sul is probable. I have had difficulty deciding what city is most likely, however. Santa Maria, as you mentioned, is a possibility because it is the mission headquarters and is relatively central. Passo Fundo might also be possible, since it has 2 stakes. I've also wondered about the possibility of a temple on the Brazilian-Uruguayan border at either Sant'Ana do Livramento, Brazil or Rivera, Uruguay; there are 2 stakes there (one on each side of the border) and my understanding is that it is fairly easy for citizens of those two countries to make trips across the border. A temple in that area could serve 3-4 stakes in Brazil and 3-4 in Uruguay. Do you have any additional insights regarding additional reasons any of those locations could be more (or less) likely as a temple to serve that region?
--Felix
@Pascal Friedman, thanks for sharing your observations regarding the use of the Frankfurt temple on weekends. I have to confess that my reaction when President Nelson announced some of the temples yesterday, such as Hamburg and Winchester (I used to live in northern Virginia, and was quite surprised by that announcement), was one of disappointment on behalf of members who live in places much further from a temple and with as many or more stakes, such as Uganda (probably not the reaction I should have, I know, but my educational and professional background leads me see everything in terms of opportunity cost), so I am pleased to hear that the Frankfurt temple is busy enough at least on weekends that additional capacity will be beneficial during those times.
--Felix
Agreed
Kinda surprised about Harrisburg, Pennsylvania and Winchester, Virginia. Though Harrisburg did have a mission back in the day. I think the 70s but it consolidated with the Pittsburgh mission or Philadelphia mission. My guess for the next temple in Virginia was either Roanoke or Norfolk/Newport News. Bakersfield, California and San Jose, California have been on my list for a few years.
Dear Felix, the Rivera/Livramento border has been on my radar for a long time, but the announcement of Londrina instead of the Triple Border BR/AR/PY demonstrates a tendency of the Church to keep the announcements in their historic centers of strength and to avoid the transit across borders, even the open borders of Mercosur. Therefore, I think Santa Maria ends up having more chances than Passo Fundo or the BR/UY border.
Having said that, I also believe that Tacuarembó remains the next bet for Uruguay, and Santa Fe for Argentina, along with a city in Patagonia. This leaves the Paraguayan side of the Triple Border, Ciudad del Leste, with the honor of hosting the second temple in that country.
Winchester, VA is odd an choice. It's only going to serve 2-3 stakes. I was expecting a temple in Buena Vista, VA which would serve at least 5 stakes. Harrisburg, PA was a surprise but after looking at the stake map, it makes a lot of sense.
That's correct. Only two meetinghouses in Bakersfield have any open space next to them, and neither are as accessible as this piece, which is near CSU Bakersfield and the Westside Parkway.
Matt,
Is this the first time in history that more temples have been announced in a year than wards/branches created?
I found it striking that 15 temples were announced, and a new increase of 15 wards/branches were announced for 2022 worldwide.
Is this considered a backlog of temples that "should have" or could have been built a while ago (i.e., number of wards supported these temples long ago), or a case of building temples in the hope or anticipation of more wards available in the future to support the temples?
I guess my question would better be posed as how a naive person should interpret the net growth of more stakes than wards, more temples than wards, and more temples than stakes, when one would presume that the number of members needed for wards would be lower than stakes, which would be lower than temples.
In other words, I think most people would expect church growth in general to show more raw growth in wards than stakes (since stakes are made up of wards), and more growth in stakes than temples (since multiple stakes are assigned to each temple). Instead, we are seeing the exact inverse of this phenomenon.
Hi James - I would refer you to my post on the 2022 Statistical Report. 2022 was a bad year for unit growth for two main reasons: significant consolidations in the USA and few new units created in high-growth areas like Africa. This tends to happen in the Church from time to time (as I note in this post - other low net increase in unit years were due to mass consolidations of units in particular geographical areas combined with a slower-than-normal year for new units created in high growth areas). The Church's plans to build so many new temples should not be looked at by one general conference to another, but instead a pattern over the past several years where the goal is to bring temples closer to members.
The reason why the Church is building so many temples is to make temples more accessible to its members and to get the youth more involved in temple work. In some temples, youth wait hours to do baptisms. They understand that capacity needs to increase, which is why some new temples are being built with two baptismal fonts. The youth is the future of the Church.
@Whizzbang, The aforementioned 2 Montana Stakes that are CURRENTLY assigned to the Cardston Alberta Temple, namely the "Great Falls Montana" and "Kalispell Montana".
https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/cardston-alberta-temple/district/
I had already discounted both to be shortly reassigned to both the "Helena Montana Temple District", in the case of the "Great Falls Montana Stake", after it is dedicated on Sunday, 18 June 2023.
https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/helena-montana-temple/district/
And in the case of the "Kalispell Montana Stake" planned to be reassigned to the "Missoula Montana Temple" that was announced 3 April 2022.
https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/missoula-montana-temple/district/
I did make one mistake in my prediction for Lethbridge Alberta Temple District. I had left the Cranbrook British Columbia Stake with the currently assigned Cardston Alberta Stake. But the road travel seems to favor traveling from Cranbrook BC, to Lethbridge AB, in the future. I believe you are familiar with the area. Maybe you can give some insight into which way it may go. 7 or 8 Stakes to Lethbridge, and 4 or 5 Stakes left to Cardston.
There are people in my branch, the Belle Isle branch, who feel the Detroit Temple is too far away. I can drive in about 25 minutes on a Saturday from the Detroit Temple to the Belle Isle branch building. It might be down to 22 minutes if there was no construction.
However here in Detrout we have members who do not have cars. You can get to the Detroit Temple by bus, I have done it. However that was from a place 12 minute drive from the temple, or from Wayne State campus a straight shot out Woodward.
From my branch you have to make at least one bus transfer. The last quater mile to the temple needs to be walked along a huge road with no sidewalks.
I see an argument for a temple in the city. I doubt it will happen unless we have a significant increase in attendance from the city. 3 of my branch members are all getting endowed the same day the end of this month.
These same factors are why I think there needs to be a temple in Baltimore. We have members there will no transportation or who have cars but spending the gas to go to DC Temple is a burden. You can go to DC on public transit, but that is not easy.
Baltimore needs a temple. Weather they are ready for it yet is harder to say.If they are not, hopefully mission and temple and stake leaders can work on preparing the people.
My favorite fact about Elder Corbitt is he met his wife on a bus ride to the temple. To be fair this was a charter bus and a ward or stake temple trip, not just getting on the public bus and going to the temple.
Then there was the inner city Cleveland Warx that came to Detroit Temple by bus. Most of the members they brought were adults who only have at this time limited use recommends for baptisms. Hopefully all these people will have full recommends by the time Cleveland Temple is done.
Kampala, Uganda is going to get a temple much closer to it with the building of a temple in Narobi. That is the main change thry will see, and with how Ling it takes to build temples, conference to conference not much else changes.
Some temples seem to be prompted by changes that were more than 1 conference before. I have been told The Church was not going to do a Grabd Rapids Temple until Grand Rapids stake split. That happened in January and Grand Rapids Temple was announced in October not April.
A key for Uganda getting a temple was 3 stakes in Kenya. That was reached last month.
I strongly expect a Ugabda Temple will be announced in October, but it might not be that soon.
Right now the Africa West Area has 2 temples, 1 more that is close to being done, that has had ground broken, and 5 that are in planning stakes. Africa Central has 1 temple, 2 under construction and 2 in planning stakes. Kampala, Uganda seems a strong candidate for the next temple. There are lots of factors involved. Generally the Church waits until there is a picked site to announce temples, so there are lots of temples in planning that are not ready to announce. This begs the question, if the Church pucks a site before a temple is announced, why have some gone 5 years with no site announcement. I think because they then try to get preliminary approvals before announcing anything else, and sometimes preliminary government approvals take a long time.
I'm suprised no temples in Utah we're announced
@ Chris D. My sense is that Cranbrookians would rather travel to the Cardston temple than go onto Lethbridge. They'd just go south when they got to Fort Mcleod. I think with 12 Stakes in the mix, you'd get the 4 Lethbridge Stakes, plus the Taber, Med. Hat and Raymond Stakes and possibly Magrath all going to the Lethbridge Temple. The Lethbridge YSA Stake is for all YSA in S. Alberta, how many go? I haven't any real idea or do some attend their local wards-probably. I think the 2 Stakes in Cardston, plus Cranbrook and For Mcleod are staying in Cardston. It's an interesting dynamic, if this is remotely true then the Lethbridge Temple would have more members going to it than the Cardston Temple. In Cardston too they have a bookstore and if less people are going I hope that doesn't go out of business.
Daniel Moretti, thank you for your reply. Those are some interesting observations. I hadn't thought about Tacuarembó as the site for the next temple in Uruguay. That would make sense. And I agree, for Argentina Santa Fe is a plausible candidate (I could also see Rosario as another option in that area).
--Felix
Only 3 of the 20 temples on my most likely temples list aere among the 15 actually announced:
1. Natal Brazil
2. Iquitos Peru
3. Charlotte NC
Besides inspiration, membership, and distance criteria, I would like to speculate why the announced temples are where they are:
1. It is easier, more efficient, and less costly for the Temple Facilities Department (design, architecture, contractor qualification, construction oversight, and furnishings) and others from headquarters to supervise construction of groups of temples.
2. Regional contractors and subcontractors on one temple, can give better bids on other temples in their regions:
a. Charlotte NC bidders might include those who built Richmond VA.
b. Springfield MO bidders might include those who built Bentonville AR.
3. Contractors can bid on pairs or groups of similar temples which simplifies getting and training their staff, subcontractors, and suppliers:
a. Retalhuleu Guatemala (with several other temples in progress in Guatemala)
b. Iquitos Peru (same time as several other announced Peru temples)
c. Natal and Teresina Brazil (Belem dedicated last year)
d. Jakarta Indonesia (Singapore announced last year; it would also eliminate need to travel outside Indonesia)
e. Tuguegarao Philippines (to join Santiago and the nearly complete Urdaneta in Northern Luzon)
f. Iloilo Philippines (island next to Bacolod)
g. Hamburg Germany (Brussels Belgium has similar small member base. Hamburg also would eliminate travel from north Germany to busy Frankfurt metro area)
h. San Jose CA and Bakersfield CA (San Jose would also save travel time in busy San Francisco metro area.
i. Winchester VA and Harrisburg PA (both would also save time travel to busy Washington DC and Philadelphia metro areas)
4. Lethbridge Alberta is a special case. Lethbridge got its first stake over 100 years ago. It is a university town and is easier to get to than Cardston for much of southern Alberta. The North America Central Area has had many announced small temples in recent years in Montana and Wyoming.
Also, the Church tithing and offerings in Canada must be spent in Canada. The Church gets more tithing than it needs to spend in Canada because of faithful members. Canada has lower expenditures because a lot of administrative expenses for Canada are handled by Salt Lake Church employees. Education and missionary costs outside of Canada for Canadian students and missionaries do not count as Church-entity spending. Temples do. In addition to distances, temples have been built in Canada partly to spend funds that must be spent in Canada.
I would assume a YSA stake would have wards in multiple cities if it covers a large area, maybe even branches in some areas. So I think to figure where people attend Lethbrige YSA it would be key to know where the wards are.
So Lethbridge YSA stake may get split between the two temples depending in where it's wards are.
In speaking of the Lethbridge Temple there is already talk about where it will be, the "hot goss" is "the location of the temple is in West Lethbridge , north of Whoop up drive and west of Mauritania Rd. It is bare land several square blocks." Guess we'll see if that is true.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can and does transfer tithing funds from Canada to BYU and its affiliates. I believe I read somewhere at a rate of $10 million a year. The article I found on this was trying to make this somehow a scandal and found a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Canada who was mad about this.
However, your point that the funds cannot be transfered to cover administrative costs is key. Nor can they be used to build temples or hapels in places that the people's tithing is low.
Some of these regional facts may play out. I am not sure Jakarta and Singapore are really close enough to play out that way.
Another factor is there is some point x in identifying a location the Church gets to before announcing a temple. President Hinckley first tried to find a sight for the Accra Ghana Temple as a counselor in the first presidency in 1993 or 1994. He was not able to find a suitable sight so he waited until 1998 when he did to announce it. The Paris France Temple also had a huge back story of finding a sight.
There may well be plans for some temples, but the Church is holding off until they have more things in place.
Will DC and Winchester be the closest temples in the US east of the Mississippi, or are Hartford and Manhattan closer?
Felix, I thought of Rosario but ended up writing Santa Fe. Both options are possible, but Rosario is bigger and has more chances. I leave this correction here.
@Daniel Moretti I served my mission in the Uruguay 15+ years ago. At the time there was some thought that Salto could have Uruguay's 2nd temple. Rumor had it that the stake was at the point of splitting, but unfortunately I think membership start to decline after that. I agree I think Rivera would be able to serve both southern Rio Grande do Sul and northern Uruguay. And Tacuarembó is more central than Salto. One difficulty, at least when I was there 15+ years ago, is that due to a hub and spoke model of bus routes, it was often easier to travel from one of the interior cities to Montevideo then back to another interior city from there. No idea if that's still true.
Hi Matt, that helps. Thanks. I agree that looking at just one year may not provide an accurate picture. Still, the proportions of wards to stakes to temples seems pretty off to me if just looking at net increases in the last 5 years combined:
Congregation increases in past 5 years: 824
Stakes: 180
Temples (announced): 117
In other words, the church is growing in a way that suggests 4.6 congregations per stake (fine - a little low, but fine), but 7 congregations per temple and just 1.5 stakes per temple.
This suggests that either there is a backlog of demand for temples (delay in building temples that could have been built years ago), and/or the church is anticipating congregation and stake growth to "catch up." Is it fair to say that the former is correct? If so, that would mean we would expect temple growth to eventually taper off to be a more reasonable proportion of stakes and congregations. I don't know what that number is, but I can tell you it isn't 7 wards or 1.5 stakes per temple.
Maybe a localized analysis will make my point clearer. You said that 2022 congregational growth was low because of consolidations in the U.S. So let's look at California, where consolidations are quite high. In the last 5 years:
Congregations: -120
Stakes: -8
Temples: +5
Now we have a ratio of 15 wards per stake (decrease - hard to interpret except that it's likely harder to close a stake and church may be more reluctant to do so), but the temple building nowhere near matches the trajectory of membership growth in the state. So one would have to think that the church thinks the trend is going to reverse, and at some point would have to taper off temple growth in California, no?
Whatever analysis one wants to make, I think it's abundantly clear at this point that whether the Church is growing or contracting in a given area is largely if not completely irrelevant anymore as a deciding factor for a temple.
Ohhappydane33 - Total agree - current or recent growth rates do not appear to factor much anymore to where temples are announced.
James - Yes, the average stake is having fewer wards (although this is a pretty small decrease from historic averages). Something to also consider is that districts become stakes and that branches become wards, and the advancement of branches into wards is not captured by the total wards and branches statistic. A significant minority of new stakes created every year are from districts becoming stakes.
It is clear that the church is not growing as expected, without a doubt, there is a decline and stagnation that has been coming for decades. We cannot ignore that the stakes do not grow as they should, the wards do not have high numbers in priesthood or tithing payments, chapels are not built in quantities like decades before, even the budget of the stakes and wards is more modest, and not for lack of money, since the church is super rich.
The only thing that grows are the announcements of temples, and that is an analysis that requires further analysis, the church is not growing as thought by the experts. The sad thing is that our high leaders (apostles, prophets and seventies) do not make a mea culpa, there is so much to improve in international and local leadership. They have not yet understood that they treat people or children of God, that we pay tithes, fast, give time to the church, give lunches to the missionaries, and the church gives little or nothing to its baptized, it demands a lot.
I await more announcements of temples not only for Chile but for the world, it is necessary, there is enough money in the church, the gospel is beautiful, although it requires a lot from everyone
My son is serving in the North Carolina Charlotte mission. On our Monday call yesterday he said that the church has a big price of property in Statesville,which is within the Charlotte Metro area. And rumor is that it might be the temple site
But Statesville is about 40 minutes from Charlotte.
Statesville is highly unlikely given how far it is from anyone or any part of Charlotte. County records show they church owns 5 acres south of Huntersville that would be ideal, also a smaller tract of land near Concord on the freeway. Fort Mill, SC is just over the border and also another ideal spot. Fort Mill is a stake without a stake center, so a double combo could happen.
In the Charlotte area the Gastonia and Lake Norman Stakes also do not have a stake center. I think a Temple just north of Charlotte would be most accessible to the Temple district. Statesville is too far north and Fort Mill too fan south and closer to Columbia. The site in Huntersville is probably large enough, but not a great site in my opinion. General location is good. The site beside I-85 near Concord is fantastic but, only 3.17 acres.
Part of me would love the Charlotte Temple to be in South Carolina just to mess with people's heads. Another part of me would super live it being on or near the Catawba lands. However there are lots of factors, and so I have no good guess where it will go.
This marks the third conference in a row where we got duplicate named temples. Last April Birmingham, England joined Birmingham, Alabama. In the fall Santiago, Philippines joined Santiago, Chile. Now San Jose, California joined San Jose, Costa Rica.
I wonder how much longer this will keep up. Barcelona, Venezuela, Preston, Idaho, Santiago, Dominican Republic, Portland, Oregon, Springfield in Massachusetts or Illinois and London, Ontario are some possibilities, although some may be long shots. Farmington, Utah is another possibility. I am sure I could come up with more, although who knows how high a chance any of these have.
Zach, I'm going to keep my bet on Tacuarembó precisely because Salto is already halfway to Rosario/Santa Fe and because of the border issue I mentioned earlier. It seems that the Church does not want citizens to have to cross borders, which explains the announcements for Jakarta, Brussels and Brazzaville...
Thanks for the clarifications, Matt, OhHappyDane33, and Historia Familiar Valenzuela Escobar.
To your points, it's even weirder when looking at membership increases, which should funnel into congregations -> stakes -> temples.
An increase of 197,061 members to the church should theoretically, conservatively @ 500 members per ward, lead to an increase in roughly 400 wards. Instead, the past year saw 15. At a conservative 5,000 members per stake (10 wards of 500 each), the growth in membership should have led to 40 new stakes, not 23 (and that's before considering upgrades from existing districts).
Just a lot to think about. It's hard to get super excited about all these temples when the growth in active membership doesn't track.
In a message just received from our stake president, it seems that the temple in Winchester will be one of the "smaller" temples. There are two fairly large pieces of land on both sides of the small chapel southeast of Winchester, plus a larger piece of land across from the chapel. This chapel is easily accessible. There is no land available around the Stake Center, but the United Methodists own a large piece of land across the road, but they have yet to build a church after having it for several years.
Thanks Bob Kerns for the info! How many stakes are projected to be assigned to the temple? It seems like it may be as few as 2 or as many as 4-5. Thoughts?
While we may have sometimes associated temple announcements with existing Church strength, it may be better to associate such announcements with a people expected to draw sufficient spiritual power and other blessings (benefits) to be worth the resources (costs) required to construct and maintain a temple.
Benefits:
As the contrast between wickedness and light grows wider in our world, the practical benefit of accessible temples grows.
Costs:
The Church does not have unlimited resources. Some believe the Church has lots of excess financial assets. However, there are several key resources that go into building and maintaining a temple that cannot be bought with money.
Sliding Scale:
I imagine new temple announcements are generally made for locations with the best cost/benefit first.
When temples are announced at a sufficient pace, locations with a sufficient but lower cost/benefit can be announced. It seems the largest constraint is currently the capacity of the Church’s temple building group.
TEMPLE ANNOUNCEMENTS APPEAR TO BE OUTPACING REAL GROWTH in the short-term, but this is necessary to reduce the list of locations that meet the minimum cost/benefit.
A KEY QUESTION IS, how many future locations are expected to meet the minimum cost/benefit (and be therefore added to the list) before temple announcements catch up to the end of the list?
I have no idea whether there have been or will be changes to the minimum cost/benefit required for a temple announcement. However, the Church continues taking steps to reduce the financial cost of building temples and has simplified temple operations to utilize fewer temple workers, more efficiently. Also, having more accessible operating temples naturally produces some of the intangible resources needed to build even more temples.
Both the Winchester Virginia Stake and the Martinsburg Stakes cover large areas from parts of Pennsylvania, all of the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia, and most of the Western Panhandle of Martland. The Winchester Stake also takes in two large West Virginia counties, plus five counties in Virginia. We have families in these two stakes who are four generation members. So at least these two stakes, which are growing slowly, but steadily. People move out here for work, look at Northern Virginia and the Winchester area, and say I think we'll pick Winchester.
Martinsburg West Virginia Stake. This stake used to be part of the Winchester Virginia Stake.
Thanks Bob again for your comments!
Fantastic to see Winchester gain a temple!
Folks may remember my 15 passenger van trips on the backroads in the mid-late 90's from Winchester through Clearbrook, Summit Point, Charlestown, and Harper's Ferry to get to I-270 and on to the Washington Washington DC Temple in just under 2 1/2 hours, complete with the thrills of tight roads and roller-coaster hills.
Loved the people in the Winchester Stake, from Cumberland, MD, to Petersburg, WV, down to Front Royal, Berryville, Stephen's City, Charles Town, Harper's Ferry, Keyser, Romney, Hancock, Martinsburg, and Winchester proper. Beautiful Shenandoah Valley, Blue Ridge Mountains, Appalachians, and so much more!
Yes,Brian McConnell.Many still remember.
Other Matt here...
Long term, I think all the new temples will further increase the church's growth, awareness, prominence in the area.
More of a "built it and they will come" approach., rather than waiting around for certain metrics to hit, before a temple can be built.
Here is an update on the health of Elder Jeffrey R. Holland:
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-provides-update-on-elder-hollands-health
https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2023/4/6/23672743/official-church-statement-elder-holland-taking-two-months-off-to-focus-on-health-covid-19
Massive temple announcements and building are interesting in many ways.
1) Elder Pearson has said that the goal is eventually a temple for every two stakes, worldwide.
2) Almost all temples --- even in high traffic and high LDS density areas like Gilbert, AZ --- are understaffed and under-patronized. I think this will only get worse as the Baby Boomers begin to die off and are replaced by GenX. And it will precipitously get worse when GenX is replaced by GenZ and Millennials. A ticking demographic time bomb that pales in comparison to age of marriage and number of children in the younger generations, which will impact unit sizes, missionary cohorts, etc.
3) With some temples being built in areas with very little active membership, I've heard explanations such as "The temples are being built for the Millennium, not here and now." Or, "Even areas with few active members deserve to have a temple."
I think personally that temples are more of a "marketing" and "branding" thing now than they are about performing ordinances. And to give the appearance of progress and growth when growth rates have slowed precipitously.
I think the way we're looking at temple usage may be out of date. There are prophesies about thousands of temples, and about them running night and day.
Elder Andersen said, "Let me share a second example: In the twenty-two years that I have been serving as a General Authority of the Church, the number of temples has increased from forty-four to 147. In only twenty years the Lord has given us three times the number of temples. Why is that? We now have temples closer and more accessible than ever before. But in these times of commotion the Lord expects us to adjust our habits and be in His house more often."
(https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/neil-l-andersen/a-compensatory-spiritual-power-for-the-righteous/?fbclid=IwAR1m467tpKXJdcSKZRPUkHRqlhkzKMZ65Y6jfg-bNZNeJeH8lVSDvnXpibQ)
"In these times of commotion the Lord expects us to adjust our habits and be in His house more often."
And that's going to increase as the commotion of the world increases. What if every member could attend just twice as often as they are now?
I think these are the sorts of things they're considering. Also, President Nelson has talked about the spiritual power and protection that comes from attending the temple. They want that to be available to all members of the church, particularly as things become more difficult, regardless of location or numbers to support a large building.
Side note for any who are interested - The Toronto Ontario temple will be closing for renovation from approximately August 2023-February 2024. This hasn't been announced by the church yet, but has been announced locally.
A temple for every two stakes makes no sense, particularly in high density membership areas. If that is the case, all of the temples in Utah and surrounding states are far too large. Two stakes do not need a 30,000 square foot temple, let alone 50,000 to 100,000+ square foot temples. Don't believe everything some random GA allegedly says.
@Ohhappydane33:
The large temples were built before the era of rapid and numerous temple announcements. I take what Elder Pearson said to mean that the goal will be have a temple per two stakes going forward (with the new builds) --- especially in areas that traditionally wouldn't have qualified because of available temple workers and patrons (i.e., low member density areas). These will be very small and by appointment only.
I think it's clear that the momentum is heading towards temples needing far fewer workers (and far fewer Melchizedek priesthood holders as workers), with an eye towards areas that are going to have a tough time with staffing. I can see this as being where the camel gets his nose into the tent as far as women ordination, if it ever happens. Allowing Aaronic priesthood holders and girls/women to witness ordinances seems geared towards areas with few members and fewer priesthood holders, and endowments seem headed towards fewer and fewer workers needed for endowment sessions. Possibly eventually "virtual only" sessions . . .
In any year there are lots of specific factors that impact growth. Increases in active membership do not always lead to new units. Sometimes they instead translate into going from a branch to a ward, or a district to a stake. There is also a delay effect, so most new units are formed because of things happening years before.
There are also factors of new units formed as groups instead of branches. 2022 we were still seeing the effects of the disruptions of 2020 and 2021. For example it was several months into 2022 that Mozambique finally lifted its ban on baptisms.
Year to year comparisons take to microscopic a view of things.
One way to look at this is when Britain got its temple it had about 7,000 members. By 1970 it was up to something like 48,000 members. This did not lead to an announcement of several more temples. So the point where the first temple comes in and the point where a second comes in are not even linear events. Although I think now there is more a push to reach more areas as soon as there is anywhere even remotely close to enough structure to staff a temple.
President Nelson and his associates have a vision of the temple being central to the worship of all Latter-day Saints.
On the topic of temples operating overnight, during the later 1990s Elder Gong was an overnight temple worker in the DC temple. At that time the temple would open either Thursday or Friday morning, and not close again until Saturday night.
In running background searches on Elder Corbitt I learned some interesting things. He was one of the main organizers of the 2018 Be One Celebration. He also was a key figure in building public support for the Philadelphia Temple. He understands the issues The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints faces moving into urban environments and trying to build in urban areas in key ways.
On another note I found this article https://www.thechurchnews.com/2006/3/13/23235188/black-lds-members-enjoy-a-homecoming about a gathering for Latter-day Saints of African descent held in the Washington DC Temple visitors center. Elder Corbitt was one of the speakers there.
To understand why President Nelson keeps pushing more temples we need to keep in mind that in key ways members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cannot experience the full breath of the gospel without going to the temple.
I can think of lots of places for which a temple has not been announced that having one announced would be easily justified by the current status of the Church there. I think we will continue to see new temples announced for some time to come.
Does anybody know when in the last 6 months the "Dajabon Dominican Republic District - 616591" was renamed "Monte Cristi Dominican Republic District - 616591" ?
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/meetinghouses/@19.553162,-71.707392,18s&id=ward:289043
For many members around the world temple service was sothing the did one in a liftime or once a year. The many anounced and recnently build temples will make it possible for many of those members to attend multiple times a year or event to mothly.
It looks like the Saints in the Waynesboro Stake south of Winchester might be able to travel more easily to the Winchester Temple. I don't know the boundaries, but it seems like it would be a practically straight shot up the Valley rather than crossing the mountains to get to the Richmond. So that might be a possible third stake to add to the Winchester Virginia Temple District.
What happens when a new temple is dedicated in a remote area, like Puerto Rico? Is there a huge rush of people eager to be endowed? Is there a small push to get potential temple workers endowed first? Are extra sessions scheduled during the first several weeks after opening? Does it take months or years for people to make regular attendance part of their lives? Is there a shortage of temple clothes at first? Do people borrow temple clothes from those who have them? Are lots of issues identified and addressed during the first maintenance closure?
I guess I’m curious how it plays out.
I was working the open house for the Provo City Center temple one night, one of many days and nights I worked that, maybe 100 hours total. I was up in the upstairs level by the north stairs up from the ground floor ordinance rooms. I had to take a bathroom break and that was a short distance down the hall before the north sealing room.
I got there, and found that it did not have a coat hook.
Got done and went back to my station that night. Stephen J. Lund, at that time an area seventy came by and I mentioned that to him. He replied, that is one of a number of items on the punch list', referring to what was likely, fixing and completing small things that were either missed, needed a little work, or other matter, before the dedication.
So yes, the first maintenance period after dedication might easily include repairing things that might still have been missed before the dedication, but afterwards were.
Larger cities will get temples sized for the projected membership in the area, given that the Mexico City region will see smaller midsized temples.
Smaller temples will appear in smaller places, such as is being done in Helena and Elko, Cpdy, etc.
Utah, parts of Idaho and Arizona as well as California, will still see mid-sized to large temples. Utah in the SL C metro will see the biggest ones still, the present goal will apparently be to get as many as possible within five miles of any temple.
The big four genealogy websites are adding data at an ever increasing rate, meaning anyone should find the names they are looking for and with increasing ease. Other things are happening that will make finding names in that data easier than before as well.
"7 April 2023 - Salt Lake City News Release
World Leaders Visit Church Headquarters
The First Presidency and others host leaders from Armenia, Belgium and Finland"
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/world-leaders-visit-church-headquarters
"7 April 2023 - Salt Lake City News Release
Ga Mantse King Visits Church Headquarters
King Tackie Teiko Tsuru II of Accra, Ghana, attends April 2023 general conference"
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/ga-mantse-king-visits-church-headquarters
My prediction for stakes assigned to the Winchester temple. For sure: Winchester and Martinsburg WV. Maybe: Hagerstown MD, Waynesboro VA, Gainesville VA, Ashburn VA. Gainesville and Ashburn are the westernmost DC metro stakes, and depending on exactly where the Winchester temple goes could be a little bit closer to it.
@Sean, So, the "Chambersburg Pennsylvania Stake - 505617" has been renamed the "Hagerstown Maryland Stake - 505617" within the last 6 months or so?
At least it was called Chambersburg Pennsylvania Stake last August 2022 when I took a screenshot of the known Stake borders and units from the now defunct Classic Maps site.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/meetinghouses/@39.622111,-77.722233,13s&id=ward:45632
At the time it included the :
Chambersburg 1st Ward - 48720
Chambersburg 2nd Ward - 218960
Cumberland Ward - 48062
Hagerstown 1st Ward (possibly renamed City Park Ward or Beaver Creek Ward or split?)
Hancock Ward - 442691
Keyser Branch - 44075
Hagerstown 2nd Branch (Spanish) (possibly renamed Hagerstown Branch (Spanish) ?)
I believe the GA Mantse king mentioned above is the one Elder Rasband mentioned in his talk was at general conference.
Right now there are two natives of Ghana who served as tenlmple presidents, one of the Accra Ghana Temple and the other of the London England Temple. To be fair the current temple president of the London Temple has lived in London for years. I believe he may even have been the black mber of a stake presidency in London President Hinckley referred to in an interview with a reporter in Britain in the first year or so of his time as president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
When I was a student at BYU I once went to a performance of music and the spoken word at the conference center where they mentioned that there was a delegation of maybe 20 or so Ghanaians in the audience who were in Salt Lake City training to be Temple workers in the Accra Temple once it opened. One may have sat by me but we did not talk all that much so I cannot say more about it.
In the Praia Cape Verde Temple the first president and matron will end their service about 15 months after the temples dedication, as opposed to a normal length of 36 months. However their call was announced a while before the temple was dedicated. So this may indicate they did much background work to prepare for the temple. On the other hand they are not Cape Verdeans but the new matron and president are, so that might also factor into the short term.
I keep telling myself I will build a comprehensive database of temple leaders, organized alphabetically so I can see if I can learn more relationships. I know the current president of the Deteoit Temple is the son of a former president of the Chicago Temple. The current president of the Toronto Temple is the son of a former president of that temple. There was another previous president othd Toronto temple whose father was president there. John H. Groberg and his wife lead the Idaho Falls Temple, as did his parents. I believe he had at least one sibling who was temple president elsewhere. Joseph Fielding Smith and Joseph F. Smith were both president of the Salt Lake Temple.
I think the only case I have found of a woman whose mother was Aldo matron is a case where the mother died, and the daughter then served as matron with her father who continued as president. If I organized the database putting in the maiden names if the matrons I might be able to determine patterns that have eluded my searching so far.
One last comment. There are at least three current temple presidents who begin service in 2019. President Jones if Detroit, President Nixon of Manhattan and President Joseph of Haiti.
This document alone tells much of the story of Fritzner Joseph, the current president of the Haiti Temple. One would not expect so much detail to come through on a summary document. President Joseph, the current president of the Haiti Port-at-Prince Temple was the first resident of Haiti ever called as a full time missionary. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/global-histories/haiti/ht-chronology?lang=eng
This document neglects to mention that President Joseph was present at the meeting where Elder Thomas S. Monson dedicated Haiti for the preaching of the gospel.
Joseph may well have been the man who lead the start of Seminary and institutes in 1988. By 1991 he was working full time with that program. In October 1991 as foreign missionaries were removed, he became the mission leader. He and Gina would go to new mission leaders training in 1992. They lead the mission until July 1996, so for over four and a half years.
By 2018 they were living in Utah and Brother Joseph was working with the Deseret Industries Training Program, I think in a role supervising many in the mentoring program. So they were not resident in Haiti when called to lead that temple.
They were called on August 27, 2018, almost 5 years ago. Their replacements have not yet been called. The temple was dedicated at the start of 2019.
My one complaint about that document is that they do not use a consistent style in referring to Fritzner and Gina Joseph. When Haiti had the huge earthquake I think in 2011 the mission president was named Kerving Joseph. I have yet to figure out if he was related to Fritzner. I think I determined they are not siblings, and Fritzer's first child was born in the early 1990s while he was mission president, while Kerving was born about 1980. Joseph is a common enough name they may not be related, but thry could be cousins or an uncle and nephew.
Interesting on Hagerstown Maryland Stake/Chambersburg Pennsylvania. Chambersburg was the one place in the a northern state proactively raided and destroyed by supporters of the continuance of race based slavery during the American Civil War. For my American History Civil War and Reconstruction Era class at BYU I read a set of letters where the husband served in the Union Army and his wife was in Chambersburg when it was attacked by rebels. I feel a connection to that place. I wonder if boundary changes accompanied the name change.
I also wonder how many stakes have been name changed across state lines. 0irtland Maine became a New Hampshire stake, and Erie Pennsylvania became Jamestown, New York. Blythe California became Lake Havasu City Arizona. Also the Valparaiso Indiana Stake used to be an Illinois Atake. There was a Beloit Wisconsin Stake, it may later have Bern name changed to Illinois. There may be other examples.
I dug up more on Fritzner and Gina Joseph. They were serving as full time missionaries in Haiti when the Port-au-Prince Temple was announced per this article https://www.deseret.com/2015/7/2/20567752/a-beautiful-day-in-haiti-early-converts-reflect-on-church-growth-temple-announcement
That article mentions the unrelated Antoine Joseph, who later moved to Boston. It has accompanying photos of Kerving Joseph, but no one seems to have seen any reason to tell us if Kerving was related to either of the other mentioned Joseph's.
The fact it was only about a year after Fritzner Joseph was released as mission president that Haiti got its first stake is interesting.
I also worked out that Fritzner Joseph and Ahmad Corbitt overlapped their time serving in the San Juan Puerto Rico Mission. Brother Joseph served in 1981-1983, and Elder Corbitt served 1982-1984.
I am not sure what the boundaries of the Puerto Rico San Juan Mission were in those years. It may have covered most of the Caribbean at least in 1981.
Kerving Joseph has a fun baptism story, complete with dodging a crocodile in the pool of the Canadian diplomats home he was baptized at. At 11:00 at night. Only slightly less exciting than the story of Tonfa Tounsi Paletu'a's baptism, which includes an assault on him by an angry relative an his insistence on being confirmed before going to the hospital. Paletu'a was the first president of the Nukualofa Tonga Temple.
@Daniel Moretti - there are effectively no borders within the European Union. Traveling from Belgium to the temples in Germany, France, or the Netherlands is like traveling from New Jersey to the temples in New York, Pennsylvania, or Maryland. The rationale for a Brussels Temple isn't to avoid border crossings.
Chris D., in August 2022 you "took a screenshot of the known Stake borders and units from the now defunct Classic Maps site." Is it possible to get a copy of those stake borders and their wards and branches?
They can't be searched any longer, but if a ward or branch's name is known, you can get a little information on it from the Meetinghouse Locater site. If your records of those stake borders and units are available, I would love to have access to them. Thank you very much.
Other Matt here.
You are assuming the EU will always be united. Perhaps the future, the countries in Europe will be more independent and have stronger borders than the present, causing a need for temples in each European country.
That makes about as much sense as saying “New Jersey needs a temple because perhaps in the future, New York and Pennsylvania will be more independent and have stronger borders than the present, causing a need for temples in each U.S. state.” Or is it YOU assuming the *U.S.* will always be united?
As far as border crossings for temple attendance based on ease of travel, I do not think that there is one rule that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints subscribes to.
Cases to consider:
Ciudad Juarez on the Mexico (Chihuahua) side of the border can be complicated for Texas and New Mexico Saints for a few reasons.
1. Mexico is usually easier to enter than the U.S., but from personal experience, I have had to fill out a customs card only walking into Mexico, which used to not be so intrusive.
2. To return into the U.S. can take hours, depending on the border port. Walking back is easier, because driving into the U.S. you can wait for hours to go through Customs. I have done that for Nogales and Tijuana. Not fun.
3. Ciudad Juarez or other Mexican cities can be substantially more dangerous than many parts of the world, especially at night. I visited the C. Juarez Temple before 2006, and things are not recommended for travel there since, generally. Check State Dept. website for travel into Mexico. Not that great for the last years.
Many borders are harder to go through than others. Crossing into Canada requires questioning, and the occasional vehicle check or secondary questioning. Then, like Mexico, returning to the United States is another part of the time necessary for a trip.
In Europe, not all countries are EU members, but there is a major war on one side of the continent, Great Britain removed itself from the Union, which may complicate travel (I am not sure how that has changed things), there are countries like Hungary that are very protective of who enters, which seems to indicate more time and scrutiny at the borders.
Brussels may make sense for cultural and linguistic reasons. French may be more facile or simply more comfortable, while the distance from the Hague and Paris is big enough to justify its own place. Hours between the temples to the north and south may be reason alone to have the Templo de Brusela.
Brazzaville and Kinshasa are close together, but based on issues between African governments and ethnic issues, there may be many reasons to have two temples straddling the border. I think that former Zaire has had more violent deaths in the last 25 years than any other country. That is mostly internal violence. Crime may be harder to deal with if a foreigner in DRC as opposed to Congo-Brazzaville. There are a lot of factors why they are separate. Perhaps corruption and extorsion while traveling happens? Does not make for a happy temple visit.
Jakarta is far enough from Singapore to have its own temple. I wonder about the capital of Indonesia moving, but Jakarta will always have a lot of people, no matter where the political seats are located.
West Virginia and Wisconsin still on the horizon.
It is more about distance than borders, but crossing borders does factor into these plans for many temples of the world.
One key in Kinshasa and Brazaville is there is no bridge. Also, during Covid crossing the border was blocked for a time so those in Brazzaville could not go to the temple. Covid shut down rules may have prompted some thoughts on where needs a temple.
The EU has never been as unified as the USA, and since the UK successfully removed, the question might be if Texas successfully left the US, would that cause a desire to build a temple in New Jersey.
That said the core of the EU is Germany, France and the Neneluz countries. I do not see them leaving anytime soon, and I do not think border issues per se are driving the Brussels Temple.
Distance is probably the big drive, combined with increased temple participation. There may be the fact that for French speakers it makes more sense to go to Paris than the Hague, but that is a large distance.
Another issue may be where you can easily get to by public transit. In the US this may be key to Tampa having a temple on the way and not Baltimore. One can get from Baltimore to the DC Temple, I think it still takes over a ln hour, maybe over 2 and some parts of Baltimore you may start out on a bus that comes only once an hour and may at times run behind schedule, so it is not easy, but you can do it. When I used Google maps to see how Lilongwe it would take me to go from Tampa to the Orlando Temple it Saud it could not be done.
A few more notes on Fritzner and Gina Joseph, the first and current president and matron of the Port-au-Prince Haiti Temple. Thry were the first Haitian coupled to be sealed in the temple. They were sealed in 1990 in Washington DC.
Fritzner Joseph was the first CES coordinator in Haiti, when seminaries and institutes started in 1988. At one point while the Joseph's were leading the Haiti Port-au-Prince mission (from 1991-1996) all the missionaries in the mission had been institute students of Nrother Joseph.
Thanks for the explanation, PR. It's definitely like Mercosur (actually this one mimicked that one). However, here this situation is justified by the language barrier between Brazil and Spanish-speaking countries.
On that I agree. A Federal State united under a common constitution is much more resistant to irredentism than a supranational confederation, built as a common market and customs union. It would be easier for a Swiss canton to secede from the rest of the country than a US state.
@Ray or anyone else interested. Here is a public link to my Onedrive folders with VIEW only rights. Of the more that 4,500 Screenshots of all known Areas / Missions / Stakes / Districts as they were organized between July / August 2022 on the date i took the screenshot from the old online Church Maps site. There are grouped together under a subfolder by each of the 10 Quorums of the Area Seventies (3rd to 12th). Also is included my Google Earth .kml file of the approximate location of each Temple, Stake and District. And the .kml file of the road/air routes I calcute from the known stake/district center to the known or approximate location of assigned current or announced temple district.
https://1drv.ms/f/s!As_DA0WaWLkdjuJVdFLv94lQvposPA?e=8k1aEI
You're welcome.
Any questions you can ask me here.
Chris D., this information is great to have, and we all appreciate it very much.
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Ray, we're you able to see the screenshots of the units?
Chris D., yes--I have opened the 3d through the 8th Quorum Stake Images, but I haven't yet been able to open the two Church Areas - Routes.kml. I will keep at it, but may have to get back to you for more help. I'm not able to get all 4,500 screenshots yet. Thanks.
Chris D., I've opened all Quorum Stake Images and have counted approximately 4,462 screenshots of stakes, districts, & missions. Still haven't been able to open the two Church Areas - Routes,kml. Thanks again!
Regarding Hagerstown Stake, the Cumberland Ward, Hancock Ward, and Keyser Branch were all part of the Winchester Virginia Stake at the turn of the century.
Cumberland was a ~2+ hour drive from the stake center via Paw Paw, WV.
Yes.I remember back in the 60s and early 70s driving up, down, around, and through the winding roads,hills,and "hollers" to Cumberland. My mother would pack a lunch to enjoy after meetings. My dad was in the Winchester Branch Presidency at the time.
This was in the old Cumberland Branch meetinghouse in downtown Cumberland.
It's weird, because the church of Jesus Christ temples site shows no Hagerstown stake, but the meetinghouse locator site does. Since the latter is an official church site I went with that.
Sean, I was curious because of your comment and checked the site. Not sure what it was before, Hagerstown is currently showing on both the church units map and the Washington DC temple district map/list.
twinnumerouno, to answer your question. When I and Sean looked on Rick Satterfield temple district site list. it was still listed there as Chambersburg Pennsylvania Stake. I then sent Rick a notice email of the reported change from the meetinghouse locator site I found the wards branches. and he updated his Washington D.C. Temple District list to change the name accordingly the same night. so now both sites reflect the same Hagerstown Virginia Stake name and removed the old Chambersburg Pennsylvania Stake. which side note was originally organized as the original Gettysburg Stake before it became Gettysburg Pennsylvania Stake on January 14th 1974.
Great, thanks for the explanation.
Hopefully the day will come when more temples are built in our countries, we already know that the announcements of temples have nothing to do with assets in the gospel, it has nothing to do with baptized, or with full tithe payments, it has to do with the revelation of the prophet and the analyzes they carry out.
I have sadly seen how in my country, Chile, the church continues to stagnate, there are many reasons to analyze, even so, in our chapels far from the faithful and with few churches, there are people encouraged to serve, there are faithful who want to go to the temple.
I am from Valparaiso, on the central coast of the country, a temple is needed closer, there are still many material needs among the baptized, there are still problems, it is normal for it to happen, however, our leaders must be more attentive and serve.
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