I have updated my temple prediction map in preparation for General
Conference in October. Data used to identify probable locations for future
temples include the size of the Church in a specific geographical area
(i.e. number of stakes and districts, the number of wards and branches),
the age of the oldest stake in a specific geographical area, church
growth trends, distance to the nearest temple, the historical number of endowment
sessions scheduled at the nearest temple, and member and missionary
reports regarding member activity, temple attendance, and convert
retention. Altogether, there are 156 potential
temples on the map (33 more like temples, 108 less likely temples).
One Location was added to the temple prediction map in September 2021:
- Laoag City Philippines Temple
The following prospective temples were transferred from the less likely category to the more likely category:
- Maceió Brazil Temple
- Viña del Mar/Valparaíso Chile Temple
The following 10 locations appear most likely to have temples announced
this coming General Conference. You are
welcome to provide your top 10 picks for temple announcements in the
comments below.
- Monrovia, Liberia
- La Paz, Bolivia
- Angeles or Olongapo, Philippines
- Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
- Mbuji-Mayi, Democratic Republic of the Congo
- Charlotte, North Carolina
- Austin, Texas
- Santiago/Tuguegarao Philippines
- Tacoma Washington
- Colorado Springs, Colorado
See below for the map of likely and less likely new temple sites:
307 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 307 of 307@Johnathan Reese Whiting, thanks for sharing your list. I really enjoyed reading it.
I'm guessing Pakistan is probably more a personal choice, but I'm intrigued by this one, and was wondering how you came about to including this on your list. Thanks!
@John Pack Lambert
Aside from Lindon & Orem being announced close together, so were Syracuse & Layton, and Budapest & Vienna, and unexpectedly Cambodia even with the large size of the neighboring Bangkok Temple, which supports your point.
@Johnathan, thanks for sharing your big fat list! I really enjoyed reading it. I'm sure this is your personal choice, but was curious as to how Pakistan ended up on your list. I'm very intrigued by this listing! Thanks!!!
I've been to Kamas a few times over the last few years. Don't know how active the overall population is, but the family I would visit there were pretty devout.
What is the likelihood of Cuba being blessed with a temple in the near future? I would assume, not great just because of the Church's affiliation with the States, but I also assumed that for Shanghai. Any thoughts on the matter?
I appreciate all the comments! Something I have really appreciated is the observation that historically the Church has announced temples in countries even when there are few members and stakes (or even no stakes)like New Zealand, Switzerland, Tahiti, etc. Seems like one of the barriers in more recent years to do this has been low activity rates and leadership development problems as well as an emphasis on building bigger temples. I think it is unlikely for places like Cuba or Vietnam to get temples because there has not been much of a history of the Church in either country yet and there are very few members in these countries, but I could see temples in some of these places with more members (think of places like Austria and Belgium)but are not obvious possibilities due to slow growth or less than 10k members. Perhaps some places on the table may include Albania, a third temple for Germany, Milan, a temple in southern France, Barcelona, Belize, Gaborone, or Uganda may be around the corner.
Eduardo, I am not sure what criteria you might be using to support the idea that President Nelson won't make it to 107. As a former practicing heart surgeon who follows the Church's laws of health, his wife and each of his apostolic colleagues have all reported having trouble keeping up with him, and have stated he is acting with the health, vigor, energy, and vitality of someone decades younger. He has reportedly got more energy and vigor than the youngest apostle, Elder Soares, who will be 63 around two weeks from now. Any assessment about the health and likely longevity of our current prophet that fails to account for these factors will find in the coming years that their assessment was incomplete.
Así es, mariposa y huesos, el templo es un lugar especial y único
Updated today on Classic Maps site, the recently posted new stake, "Morehead City North Carolina Stake - 2181525". Which includes : Harkers Island, Havelock, Jacksonville 2nd and 3rd, Morehead City and New Bern Wards.
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=34.778123,-76.552304&z=8&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&find=stake:2181525
Also confirmed the "Pleasanton California Stake - 507377", originally organized December 8th, 1974, was consolidated with the "Livermore California Stake - 518921", organized originally September 13th, 1987. The combined stake has the following Wards/Branches: Foothill, Heritage Park, Sycamore Grove, Tassajara Creek, Valley View, Vineyard Hills, Vintage Hills, Windmill Springs Wards, and the Tri-Valley YSA Ward, and the Dublin Branch (Mandarin), and the Del Valle Branch (Spanish).
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=37.629938,-121.729379&z=11&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&find=stake:518921
Also updated on Classic Maps, the "Kinston North Carolina Stake - 503657", originally the "North Carolina Stake" in 1961, was renamed the "Greenville North Carolina Stake - 503657" recently.
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=35.217774,-76.923798&z=8&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&find=stake:503657
IN ORDER Top 10 for October 2021
Arizona Mesa E or Glendale or Queen Creek
Mexico MC S or Culiacan
Utah Lehi or Spanish Fork or Bluffdale/H/RorFarm
Texas Fort Worth
Peru Chiclayo or Iquitos or Lima S
Japan Osaka
Liberia Monrovia
Venezuela Maracaibo or Barcelona
Brazil Ribeirao Preto, Teresina, Vila Velha,JoaoP
DRCongo Kananga or Mbuji-Mayi
—2nd 10
Argentina Neuquen or Rosario
New Zealand Wellington
Uganda Kampala
Nigeria Abuja or Port Harcourt
Uruguay Rivera
Chile Osorno or Santiago S
Spain Barcelona or Granada
Italy Milan
Philippines San Pablo C
Bolivia La Paz
- Mongolia
- Colorado Springs CO
- Rapid City SD
- Scotland
- Dublin Ireland
- Modesto CA
- Juneau AK
- Joao Pessoa Brazil
- Africa (2)
- Chetumal Mexico
Utah County has a great parcel map that shows the owners of any piece of land. This is how I knew about the land for the Orem Temple before it was announced. The Church also acquired the land for the Lindon Temple right around the announcement.
https://maps.utahcounty.gov/ParcelMap/ParcelMap.html
My guess for Spanish Fork would be a large piece of land just south of Maple Mountain High School. The church owns about 55 acres there. There are already two chapels on the site.
There is also the "BYU Farm" between Spanish Fork and Salem. DR Horton Recently Acquired the site and is planning a development. I found some plans on this Facebook page that doesn't seem happy about it. They don't appear to have any obvious temple sites. But that can always change. The area is probably too close to Payson. But it's always possible down the road.
https://www.facebook.com/preservepondtown/
I have an acquaintance who lives in that area. We were discussing the growth in his neighborhood and he said he heard that the Church just bought some land just past that school. You know how rumors are… so I looked around online and found nothing. But just a few days ago I did another search and found a comment online from someone presumably in that community who was at or later watched the meeting and he provided the link and approximate time.
Long story short, someone i know who lives in that area mentioned a rumor he had heard, I looked into it online and found that link posted by someone who presumably lives in that area.
GIS parcel maps are incredibly helpful tools, aren’t they? Glad I’m not the only one who uses them.
JPL, after rereading some comments in this thread, I looked more specifically at Matt's too ten nations list. Membership numbers are the first factor in those listings, followed by the total number of congregations, then the breakdown of stakes vs. districts.
But if those factors alone were used to determine when a temple would be announced, Liberia would already have a temple announced. I seem to recall a Newsroom report from two or so years ago that described explosive growth in either Liberia or Mozambique or noth. Shortly after that report was released, Liberia became entangled in an economic crisis.
So yes, the membership and congregational numbers might be sufficient in Liberia to warrant a temple, but if the financial crisis is still in effect, building a temple in that nation in the midst of that crisis would be a grave PR nightmare for the Church.
Unless I am mistaken on the details here, that probably why the Church has held off on a temple in Liberia despite the fact that membership and congregational numbers merit such an announcement.
Butterfly and Bones, while I am not the one to whom you directed your comment above, my wife was born and raised in Lehi. Around 4 years or so ago, my wife's dad sold a bulk of the land owned by him to the city, on the conditions that his then-current residence could remain, and that a new house for him could be built a short distance away
The development of my father-in-law's land convinced me that Lehi
could get a temple in the near future, and I have had such an option on my list since at least when President was became the prophet. Most of the temples announced for Utah lately had not been on my radar for an announcement within the times they had occurred, and that's because I've felt strongly that temples in Herriman and Lehi were more imminently likely.
Hopefully, announcements for both cities might come sooner rather than later.
Hello again, everyone! Last night, I had gotten far enough along in my revisions to my General Conference predictions to publish those updates. While I may still have a few minor adjustments that may be needed, those updates were far enough along for me to share them:
https://stokessoundsoff.blogspot.com/2021/09/updated-predictions-for-october-2021.html?
The commenting period will remain in effect until Friday October 1 @ 10:00 PM, since I will be able to continue making updates while the commenting period continues. My thanks once again to you all.
Tremonton and Richfield both should be on this list toward the end as well.
Pocatello and Smithfield may take stakes from Brigham City, Brigham City had 18 stakes initially, so the revised district eventually may only include south of SR-30 in Utah and maybe something west of I-15.
Western Virginia, not West Virginia. Right near the campus for Southern Virginia University.
What were the 5 initial stakes that are no longer part of Brigham City temple district? Pocatello might take Malad, if not then someday when Preston is announced. Smithfield I’m not sure will take any. I think down the road there will be a smaller temple in Tremonton, so that will be the major stake loss for Brigham City. Maybe as The north end of Utah continues to grow, that may eventually necessitate the split of the district.
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2021-09-23/temple-site-locations-announced-for-temples-in-brazil-colombia-guatemala-and-mexico-225806
The Church is being grown in India according to the growing from centers of strength protocols that have President Dallin H. Oaks as one of their biggest proponants. The biggest fear in India from when the Church entered in the 1850s the first time has always been that lots of people will accepts baptism without understanding the covenants entailed in undertaking it.
Realistically The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints wants to expand in India as much as possible in outreach being fueled by missionary contingents that ae mainly Indians.
I would love to see branches in every state, and the Church move aggressively into the northeast of India where there are states like Nagaland and Mizoram that are well over 80% Christian, and the others states there are close to majority Christian, well except Assam. However I understand the logistical reasons for waiting.
Living in Detroit where we baptized a whole generation of inner city youth in the 1990s without really setting up the supporting infrastructure to allow them to easily transition into being active adult members of the Church, and as a result we ended up with a whole generation of Church members who in the rare cases where they are not totally and completely lost to the Church are single mothers (a large number of the men are incarcerated) I have come to see lots of positives from building at a speed where units of the Church are able to adequately provide youth programming for the youth they have.
Read this article this morning from the Salt Lake Tribune ("Will the Church Buy It's First Temple..."): https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/09/23/latest-mormon-land-will/
Debated whether to comment here because I know this is just a click-bait article to drum-up attention for the upcoming general conference (so please don't attack me in the comments as I am aware this is not a likelihood, at least not for the near future), but it got me thinking...
If(/when) the Church buys the Kirtland Temple from the Community of Christ, do you suppose they would renovate/restore/consecrate it as a Temple of the Lord or keep it as an historical site out of respect for the other shared religious communities connected to the Kirtland Temple and the History of Ohio? (I suppose they have visitor centers for history purposes...)
Could it be refitted/ made accessible for the needs of a modern/functional Temple while maintaining it's historical/architectural character? Or would another Temple (like the Ephraim/Manti situation) need to be constructed in close proximity?
Just thinking out loud. ****Not speculating or predicting.
While China is getting a temple without any stake, and there have been 5 other temples announced for other places with no stakes when the first temple there was announced, a deeper look suggests that none of those are likely precedents for Cuba getting a temple.
The Hawai'i Temple was announced when there were literally no stakes outside of Latter-day Saints created communities. The Los Angeles stake, the first such stake since the 1850s, was only created 3 years after the Hawai'i Temple was announced. The Hawai'i Temple was also built in a Latter-day Saints created community.
The Hamilton New Zealand, London England and Bern Switzerland Temples were all built before the leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints had created any stakes outside of the US and Canada with the lone exception of an English speaking stake in the Latter-day Saints colonies in Mexico. However in all these places the Church had existed for decades, had multiple districts and was moving clearly toward being ready to have stakes, Britain and New Zealand clearly, the later got its first stake at the time the temple was dedicated, and the former got several stakes within a few years of its first temple. For the Swiss Temple you have to consider it as a temple for all of continental Europe, and then things make sense.
In the case of the Kyiv Temple the delay in building was so long that a stake existed before the temple was completed.
Shanghai is in a country with no stakes, but with 5 or maybe even more districts for Chinese naitonal Church members, that may in some ways be ready to be stakes but there may be things that the Church has no figured out in how to administer them yet so they are holding out. Possibly one issue may be that the Church is not sure it wants to create stakes where so few of the potential leaders have been endowed, and where there is no easy way to get them endowed, and even those who have been endowed have not been able to return to the temple for a long time and have no reasonable prospect to go soon. So maybe leaders of the Church do not want to create a stake in China until the temple in complete.
In the case of Cuba, if there are 5 branches there I would be shocked. Out of the well over 200 temples, only the 6 I mentioned were announced for places with 0 stakes. There are Tahiti, Okinawa, and Winnipeg and maybe Vanuatu have only 1 stake, and Regina, Dubai, Fribourg and a few others were announced with districts with only 2 stakes. A few others like Bangalaru were announced with multiple stakes but only one stake close to them.
Of course my powers of prediction are not all that good, but Havana would clearly by an unprecedented temple. Now if US/Cuba relations changed significantly so that Americans could travel to Cuban much more easily, my understanding is that there are enough Cuban-American Church members both in south Florida and elsewhere that I could see a temple being announced for Havana.
Shanghai is the only temple announced to date for a place that does not have either a stake or a mission. However the members effected there are many more than in the Cuba case.
Of course, US/Cuba relations becoming such that travel was easier would also in theory mean that members could travel to the Fort Lauderdale Temple fairly easily. The Santo DominigoDomican Rpeublic Temple I believe is currently the one that members in Cuba would go to. I am not sure how the cost and other issues for such a journey work out.
Staffing a Cuba temple would also at this point very heavily rely on non-Cubans. I am sure it would be possible to scrape together enough senior missionaries from Latin America to staff the temple, but might not be that easy, and I am not sure how easy it would be to work out the logistics.
Beyond this, after the Aba Nigeria Temple having been closed for a period when foreign temple workers were withdrawn I think the Church is more cautious on opening temples without having plans to make them largely self-sufficient in staffing.
I could be wrong, but I just do not see a temple in Cuba until things change somewhat. Once the Church organizes a mission in Cuba, or organizes a stake in Cuba, I would consider it a dark horse candidate, but not really before that.
Johnathan Reese Whiting I am less willing to include temples across international boundaries in the announced close together groupings. Also driving from Bangkock to Phenon Penh takes over 11 hours, and this is assuming you can essentially not stop at the border, so the real time may be higher.
President Hinckley maybe his first annoucements on how to double temples in 1997. In 1998 he set a goal for accomplishing something by 2000. It is currently 2021 and I have posted about the idea of 1000 temples by 2030. So yes, I know that is a very large increase. However we are also still a long way from the end date. In 1995 President Hinckley had made no announcements that would suggest 100 temples by 2000 was doable, and that was closer to the end goal by 4 years than we are today. Although in 1995 the percentage of temples to 100 was closer than we are to 1000 today.
Now, 1000 temples by 2050 is much easier to predict. In 1971 there were 13 temples. Today there are 168 dedicated temples with 2 more scheduled to be dedicated by the end of the year and probably 3 more essentially finnished, 1 the Rio De janeiro Temple, was finnished well over a year ago. In 1981 there were 20 temples. So they were closer to 100 temples in 2000 than we are today to 1000 temples in 2040.
Daggett County Utah lost 11% of its population from 2010-2020 and is now below 1000 people. It did gain people in the 1990s and 2000s though, but had lost in the 1980s. It's highest at census population was in 1960, and that was only 1,164 people.
Rich County only has 2,510 people. However it grew 10% in the last decade, more in the 1990s and 2000s, and is at its highest at census population ever. It did have 1,955 people in 1870
Evidently Rich County's 1870 population included larger numbers in modern Idaho. The 1200 some in 1880 is probably a better starting point. The county lost population in the 1920s, but only a littler. It gained in the 1930s. The 1940s and 1980s both saw 17% declines in population though. Before 2020 1940 and 1980 were the two other censuses with over 2,000 people. It almost looks like Rich County has a 40 year cycle of 10 years of decline followed by 30 years of growth, and it looks like it is about to hit 10 years of decline. Although actually, it was over 2,000 in 2010 as well, and the 1960s saw decline after very small growht (0.7%) in the 1950s, so actually no scratch that. Bear Lake County Idaho just to the north of Rich County however has over 6,000 people.
I know Charlotte North Carolina is always a highly predicted temple. Considering the long history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Harker's Island and other places in the far east of North Carolina and with the stake there just having split, I do have some hope that eastern North Carolina will get a temple soon.
On the other hand, part of me hopes that the temple will not be built or designated as Charlotte but will be built in the Catawaba lands just south of the state line in South Carolina. The Catawaba , a Native American people, joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints pretty much en masse in the late 19th century. They are not the Native American group with the longest history of longstnading membership in the Church, Sagowitz and his associates in the Cache Valley joined the Church a few years earlier, and some of them helped to build the Logan Temple, but the Catawba were at one point pretty much the largest group of Church members in the entire southern United States.
I had totally forgotten that President Nelson announced 2 temples in Mexico in conference. I had only remebered Torreon and had totally forgotten about Queratero.
There are basically 4 temples that were converted whole or in part from previous non-temple Church buildings. Vernal Utah; Copenhagen, Denmark; Manhattan, New York and Provo City Center, Utah. So it is imaginable that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could buy an existing religious building or even non-religious building and repurpose it into a temple. We used to have a chapel here in Detroit that was built as a Greek Orthodox Church. On the other hand The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints sold that building because it was too big and too costly to maintain, although there may have been other issues.
Temples are unique buildings, built to very exacting standards. I suspect an existing building would still need to go through lots of upgrades and revisions, but in some areas demolishing buildings is very difficult, and so it might be faster, cheaper and allow for a more convenient temple if the temple was converted from an existing building.
On the issue of the Kirtland Temple, keep in mind that there are lots of meetings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter--day Saints conducted in that building. I once went to a sacrament meeting there as part of a YSA conference, and I know of at least one time my stake had a sacrament meeting there as part of a youth conference.
I could see when Cleeveland Area is ready for a temple they may choose to build the temple in Kirtland, but I suspect it would be a new building and that the Kirtland Temple would be left open to visitors and tours. I could be wrong though.
Given the small size of today's group of temple exterior renderings, it means it is possible that there are other areas nearby that may need a temple, given the cities involved probably have more than a couple stakes. But just where and how close or far is the question.
Besides, releasing 8 renderings in six days may be some sort of a record for releasing such information.
Cuba literally just has 4 branches, probably a handful of groups. With a few hundred members. It is still in the Palmyra period and there is still a long ways to go until a temple can be supported. By most accounts, there is probably around 100 branches in China and around 10,000+ Members. I think the church should try and build a meetinghouse in Cuba before a temple. China is monumentally different than Cuba in terms of church membership. JPL is spot on about that.
The location for the Second Guatemala Temple is interesting. I would have guess it would be more west or south. But it's basically in the center of the city. I would guess that would give it 17 stakes and the leave the other temple with 11. I guess this temple is nearly 3 times as larger as the current, so it is probably well placed. Any thoughts on the location?
If the church does end of purchasing the Kirtland Temple, I think it will not be classified as an "operating temple," maybe a historic or emeritus temple. The temple does not need to be "restored." It basically serves the same function as it did when it was build, closer to how we use a tabernacle or meetinghouse. The endowment as we know it today or temple recommends did not exist back then. Yes, there were early forms washing and anointings. Maybe they could dedicate space in the attic just to do initiatories? But I think renovating the building for presenting the endowment or doing baptisms would be imposing an idea that wasn't developed until Nauvoo and Utah would be terrible from a historic perspective. It would also erase the history of the great things that happened there. In the hypothetical scenario the Community of Christ sold the property, I think there would be an agreement for the church to maintain the history and access to the public while maybe paying for a structural upgrade. It would be cool if the church did build a temple nearby or in Cleveland that resembled the exterior of the Kirtland temple, but served the function of an operating temple on the inside.
https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2021-09-23/elder-bednar-europe-gathering-restored-gospel-rising-generation-and-teachings-of-the-holy-ghost-225830
"With his recent Sept. 3-12 travel to the Europe Area, Elder David A. Bednar of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles became the first senior leader of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to travel in person on an international assignment since last year’s COVID-19 onslaught.
And for the first time in the same pandemic period, many Latter-day Saints in and around STUTTGART, GERMANY, and MILAN, ITALY, joined in large-scale Church gatherings, participating in the Apostle-led instructional meetings, devotionals and conferences." ...
"Their itinerary included:
Stuttgart, Germany — a meeting with the Alpine German-Speaking Mission, instruction meetings with priesthood leaders and sister leaders, a special stake conference broadcast to all stakes in the coordinating council, and a “rising generation” devotional with youth and young adults in the same area.
Frankfurt, Germany — a review of the Europe Area, visit to the Frankfurt Germany Temple and meeting with the Germany Frankfurt Mission.
Milan, Italy — devotional with stake Relief Society, Young Women and Primary presidencies; meeting with the Italy Milan Mission; instruction meetings with priesthood leaders and sister leaders; and a special Sunday stake broadcast to all members in Italy."
Thoughts anyone? Possibly scouting Stuttgart and Milan for possible locations?
Four New Temple Renderings just released. I like the Belo Horizonte design. Evokes a little bit of Cardston's style.
Johnathan, I agree with the Cardston similarities. I really like the design for the Belo Horizonte Temple.
Cory, I was a little surprised initially at the location for the Guatemala City #2 temple. I too thought it would be built somewhere more south, in perhaps Villa Nueva. However, I think that central location is great and I'm curious to see what the temple districts will be. I also think it is cool that the new temple will be in Guatemala City proper, making two temples in the same city. I wonder what the official name will be.
The Torreón Temple will built in the city of Gómez Palacio, west of Torreón, which is actually in Durango state. So this temple will be the first in Durango state.
It also appears that the Chula Vista California Stake has been discontinued, though I don't live in that area.
@Ohhappydane33, thank you for the update in the Chula Vista California Stake.
Clarification, the Church Unit #508543, originally organized 09/19/1976, as the "Chula Vista California Stake", was recently renamed "San Diego California South Stake - 508543", during the recent San Diego area stakes' reshuffle.
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=32.642912,-117.015274&z=10&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&q=508543&find=stake:508543
The pyramid at the top has a lot of symbology in this case. The symbol of Minas Gerais, the state where the temple is located, is a pyramid, because of the Enlightenment ideals that inspired the revolt known as the Inconfidência Mineira, which was Brazil's first attempt at independence. From this insurgency emerged the greatest martyr in the country's history, Tiradentes. Sorry for my bad english ∆
Aaron Cornelius, while not technically part of the Upper Shenandoah Valley (upper is south, lower is north) it is culturally. When Elder Rex D. Pinegar served as the North Carolina-Virginia Mission President he said that the blood of Israel was strong in the Shenandoah Valley and that he could see temples built there one day. Although, not a prophecy, it was certainly a great observation. Latter-day Saints have been in the hills and hollows of the Shenandoah Valley almost from the beginning of the Church. so a temple near Buena Vista would be great, not only for the faithful in Western Virginia, but for the faithful of West Virginia as well.
JPL, do you have any source for your claim that the church wants to expand as much as is possible with outreach that is fueled by Indians? Beyond a general desire for every country to become self-sustaining in terms of missionary work? Because a desire that only Indians should serve as missionaries in India was most definitely not the case when I was a missionary in India.
More generally, you present a false dichotomy. There’s a whole range of possibilities between the extremely limited scope of missionary work currently undertaken in India and baptizing tons of poorly prepared people, as happened in South America in the 1980s or your inner city Detroit example.
I understand the reason for the centers of strength policy. I also think it has been rather too dogmatically adhered to, in ways that are detrimental - basically an over-correction from the old mistakes. For instance, there has been a branch in Kolkata for at least 15 years but the centers of strength policy prevents the mission from being able to send missionaries there, in spite of the fact there is a good enough local basis of support for one or two sets of elders to be able to effectively proselytize there.
Re: fears that people will be baptized without understanding the covenants - although a rather patronizing view, it does has a kernel of truth, especially given the history of bribes for low caste people to join other denominations in India in the past. The missions in India are well aware of this and work hard to avoid that. Avoiding it is not a matter of restricting the geographic area that proselytization happens in, but rather of setting a high bar of consistent church attendance for investigators, higher than the minimum requirements the church generally requires. Further, because of christianity’s history in India, we were expected to take care to teach about fast offerings before baptism only as an opportunity for members to help the poor, not mentioning that the members themselves are potential recipients until the lessons after baptism in order to avoid any perception that it was a financial inducement to join the church.
I wish there were histories of each mission available to read. (Or maybe there are and I am just not aware of them.) My great grandfather, Charles Kearns Ferre, was the mission president at one time of the Central Atlantic States Mission, which was later re-organized as the North Carolina-Virginia mission. Because my grandfather was very much not an active or practicing member from the time my mother was a small child she didn’t even know this until I learned it a short time before my grandfather passed away, so I know very little about my great-grandparents experiences there and wish there was a way I could learn more about that (I do have a great uncle that I do not know very well who I should probably ask for more information about this from, since he is an active member of the church).
Have heard evidence that the two temples in the Carolinas, even with Atlanta and Tallahassee, may still have members in a few areas that are five hours out from the Carolinas temples at present, particularly in the western part of their districts.
A possible Knoxville temple might just take care of some of that. Tennessee was part of the Carolinas originally, this is important when trying to find ancestors from before that, just like the later West Virginia matter.
My other prediction is
In April, there were 9 announced in the Western US. This time the eastern US will get attention. Emphasis on states without a temple:
Rapid City SD
Appleton WI
Des Moines IA
Wichita KS
Hattiesburg MS
Charleston WV
Newark NJ
Sharon VT
Augusta ME
Also, in preparation for general conference, I went deep into the weeds. I've been trying to connect ordinance room capacity to the announcement of new temples. I took a count of the chairs in the endowment rooms from the pictures the church has published and other information I had. I estimated the capacity of the temple and compared it to the number of stakes in the temple district. Then, I ranked the temples in each area to find out what temples could have their districts divided and made some predictions for the future. You can read about it here:
http://www.thisweekinmormons.com/2021/09/a-data-driven-approach-to-temple-predictions/
This is incredible analysis, Cory. Thanks for sharing . It’s interesting to see generally how well this lines up with a good number of the predictions here.
Thanks, Christopher, for alerting us to this and speculating! There is a gap in this region. I know it varies, but do you know how long it takes to scope out an area until an area is actually announced?
JPL, thanks for your very thorough comments. I'm learning a lot from just reading your comments and doing further research. I particularly enjoyed the details details about the Catawba tribe! Fascinating stuff.
On an unrelated note, do you think they would design the Farmington, New Mexico with a Navajo style?
Cory, thanks, this was immensely helpful and interesting! I'll add it to my new investigative tools.
Very nice research! It seems like there's some merit behind this. Looking forward to the years ahead
Is it easier for Northern Michigan (like Traverse City) to get to Appleton, Wi or Detroit, Mi? Are ferries across the great lakes expensive/long/infrequent?
So are you thinking Stugartt AND Milan? Like 2 different temple sites? Or one or the other?
The figures on how many members from a given stake it would take to fill all sessions to capacity for a given day is interesting. I am in Provo City Center, one of the nine home stakes assigned (the rest are associated with BYU) and so it shows about 65 a day. The regular schedule is hourly 6am to 8pm.
My stake has seven wards, so that works out to an average of 8 or 9 members per unit per day, but real life there are so many variables the big thing being that life happens and many other things need to be attended to. But if everyone were to be able to figure something out where they could go more frequently,
Extrapolate that possibility across the entire metro, and you could see if members just did one more, then maybe another one each month than they already do, endowments a month how it could swamp everything we have even more temples than we now see even planned being announced and built. This definitely exposes possibilities in the region that have not been discussed but are plausible.
I took the time to map out all the temples, already dedicated, announced, and under construction.
The backlog currently present would have in past administrations indicated a lull in temple announcements. However, I still think we are going to go full speed ahead.
Based off of that map, I am going to predict the following 50 spots:
Heber UT
Spanish Fork / Mapleton UT
Millcreek UT
Preston ID
Colorado Springs / Pueblo CO
Austin TX
Fort Worth TX
El Paso TX / Las Cruces NM
Jackson MS
Macon GA
Knoxville TN
Charlotte NC
Charleston WV
Augusta / Bangor ME
Fairbanks AK
Madison / Milwaukee WI
Rapid City SD
Wichita KS
Ottawa ON CA
Mazatlan / Culiacán SIN MX
La Paz BCS MX
Cancun QR MX
Huehuetenango GT
San Miguel ES
Liberia CR
Santiago DR
Medellin CO
Iquitos PE
Cusco PE
Ica PE
La Paz BO
Sucre BO
La Serena / Coquimbo CL
Valparaiso CL
Puerto Montt / Osorno CL
Punta Arenas CL / Ushuaia AR
Tucumán AR
Comodoro Rivadavia AR
Triple Frontera PY / BR / AR
Florianopolis BR
Cuiaba BR
Uberlandia BR
Teresina BR
Freetown SL
Brazzaville RC
Kampala UG
Jakarta INDO
Phillipines, somewhere
Kaohshing (sp?) TW
Hanoi VN
What are thoughts on the Society Islands of French Polynesia receiving a temple? There are two stakes it could service -- Bora Bora and the Raromatai Stake. Do you think it's too close to the Papeete Tahiti Temple?
@John Pack Lambert
So, you're saying you expect a Brazzaville, Congo temple is likely with the close by one across the border in DRC? Same with El Paso and Ciudad Juárez?
Im curious about the area of "The Triple Frontier," so I chose Foz do Iguaçu/Ciudad del Este for my wish list for this conference.
Don't know how easy border crossing is there, though they do have the "Friendship Bridge" there between Brazil & Paraguay, so maybe that's a good indication. ;)
I'm interested to see which country they put a temple in, if and when they decide to put a temple there.
Thoughts?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Frontier
"The Triple Frontier (Spanish: Triple Frontera, Portuguese: Tríplice Fronteira) is a tri-border area along the junction of Paraguay, Argentina and Brazil, where the Iguazú and Paraná rivers converge. Near the confluence are the cities of Ciudad del Este (Paraguay); Puerto Iguazú (Argentina) and Foz do Iguaçu (Brazil). This area is near Iguazú Falls and the Itaipú hydroelectric plant."
@JPL
I like your high goal of 1000 temples by 2030! And it will be interesting to see how close we get to it by then.
Personally, I think if we keep up the same accelerated pace President Nelson has currently set, we'll hit between 450-500 by then.
It will be interesting to see if he or his successor(s) set an even more accelerated pace in the near future.
@JPL
What's the history of the Church of Jesus Christ with Harker's Island, if you don't mind me asking? Is it related to the Catawba Tribe that you mentioned?
@JPL
I appreciate the Native American/LDS History Lesson, BTW. One of the first of my ancestors to join the Church back in Joseph Smith's time had Native American heritage (Mohican descent).
Really amazing!
Other ones I left out:
Ulan Batar MON
Busan KR
So that's 52 predictions. Don't think I'll get more than ten off this list though.
I'm seeing the number for new posts going up but no new post appearing.
There should be a spot at the bottom that says “load more” which if you click it, it will show the additional posts.
@JPL
I may have mentioned this previously, but I'm pretty sure I saw a picture of that old Greek Orthodox Church in Detroit you're talking about in an illustrated Mormon History book. The pews all had crosses on them at the ends of the rows, if I'm not mistaken.
I'm sure I've mentioned this before, too, but in my last area in my mission, Corydon, Indiana, the Church bought and repurposed an old Church of the Nazarene chapel as a branch meeting house. It still had a big cross on the front facade built into the stone.
In fact, there was an old joke among us missionaries when we'd see a church building belonging to a different denomination:
"Hey, that's a nice looking church!" one missionary would say.
"Yeah, it'll make a great stake center one day!" would be the reply.
Such was our mindset at the time as eager young missionaries.
But I've learned that we do need to be careful now to not be arrogant and to be respectful of other faiths. Some of you may be more familiar with this story, but the church bought a Catholic convent in New York City back in the early 2000s, that they repurposed (I believe as a stake center or possibly as missionary housing and a chapel). However, the young missionaries at the time found a bunch of Catholic items left behind and took unflattering pictures of them goofing off with them. Possibly because of that, our Church promptly sold that meetinghouse, which I think is unfortunate. If any of you have more details about this, let me know if I'm getting the facts straight.
I've heard other stories about some missionaries in the past climbing on and taking disrespectful photos with Buddhist statues in Thailand, and then getting in trouble for it.
I hope we as a culture can continue to learn a bit better to be respectful and knowledgeable of other religions, while at the same time hoping to build bridges and integrate members of other faiths into ours.
I would be surprised and delighted if we ever built a Temple out of a pre-existing building that used to belong to another faith. But perhaps one reason we haven't so far is out of concern that others might take it as an effort on our part to appropriate someone else's cultural history.
Perhaps it would be different if we were ever actively invited by another faith to purchase and repurpose a building specifically for the purpose of turning it into an LDS Temple. Kind of similar to how the Prince of Dubai invited us specifically to build a Temple in his country (though a brand-new building, in that case).
@Cory
I'd been thinking about the possibilities of the Kirtland Temple over the last few days ever since it was brought up here earlier. I like your idea of it continuing to serve as an accessible historical site/tabernacle rather than being transformed into a modern temple.
I don't know the area surrounding the property that well, but would there be space for a modern temple to be placed very close by (like within a block or two)?
Then the area would truly be similar to other "Temple Squares" with their own tabernacles like we see in Ogden, Brigham City, and Salt Lake, etc.
@Cory
Great work with the seating analysis!
May I inquire if you happened to create another "Temple Madness" Prediction Bracket for this October that you'd be willing to share? :)
@Daniel Moretti:
Obrigado pela aula de história sobre o Estado de Minas Gerais! É muito legal poderem incluir um símbolo tão ligado ao patrimônio daquela região (e ao patrimônio do Brasil em geral).
Também vi que você incluiu uma pequena pirâmide ∆ em seu comentário. Bom trabalho. :)
Perdoe-me por responder em português. Gosto de praticar de vez em quando. Mas seu inglês também é muito bonito!
Harker's Island has nothing to do with Catawba. There was an established branch there over 100 years ago. The chapel was burned down by enemies of the Church, but the unit there has a long history. A book was written about the Church in Harker's Island. I glaced at it at BYU but never disciplined myself to read it in detail.
On the issue with India, I think the goal is actually local missionaries in every country. India though there was a use English to teach policy at least at one point. The linguistic issues to building the Church there are unique.
I knew the Church bought a building in New York City that they made into a bishop-'s storehouse and chapel about 2000. I had family friends who ran it as missionaries. They also taught and baptized a man from Sierra Leone who had been a prominent Muslim leader in that country. Thus I am not surprised Sierra Leone was the first majority Muslim nation to have a temple announced. Well Nigeria may technically be, but Abia state and the whole South South have virtually no Muslims. Sierra Leone has Muslims in all areas, but also no sectarian conflict. Not even during its extremely vicious civil wars.
You have a very broad definition of "east". I do not count anything west of the Mississippi as east, and know people who reserve the term for areas east of the Appalachians.
Northern Michigan like Traverse City it is easier to get to Detroit. There is one ferry, and it is slow and infrequent. However the UP is mainly in the Green Bay Stake. The east end is in Traverse City district and the west in Duluth Stake.
Nothing divided by ocean in close. Remember that when the Papetee Tahiti Temple was announced it only covered 1 stake. So I could totally see Bora Bora or Raroatai having a temple announced.
Jonathan, your Portuguese is very good, my English is still googled in many parts. Despite living in São Paulo, I'm just a few hours' drive from the Minas border. I'm sure you'd love to visit the mountainous landscapes of this interior of the country, eat typical farm dishes such as cheese bread, climb the baroque slopes of Ouro Preto history...
@Bryan
Did you mean to put Bo Sierra Leone? Freetown was announced two years ago. :)
Whichever city you choose, transit between them is facilitated by Mercosur laws, which establish free passage for citizens of these countries, similar to the Schengen area in the EU
Guinea and Guinea-Bissau need some updates on Cumorah. Good luck getting that information, which is small and slow in both cases, but percentage growth looks positive.
I know there is a lot of talk about Rexburg #2 but could Rigby get there own soon too. Is Rexburg busy? It looks like Rigby would have at minimum 5 stakes and I think that area continues to grow. Also I know people are doubtful about Richfield with Manti and Ephraim but it still seems likely Richfield will get their own temple within a few years as the church continues to take temples closer to the people. Isn’t it like a 50 minute drive to Manti from Richfield?
Top choices for second temple in metropolitan area:
Las Vegas (either on the west side of town or in Henderson).
DFW (somewhere in Tarrant County, preferably Fort Worth, maybe Arlington or the HEB area).
Mexico City (perhaps building another small temple next to the MTC, though I think Cuernavaca, Toluca, and Pachuca get announcements before that happens.)
Rexburg (Can't really call it a metro area as it is tiny, but who knows. Maybe one towards the north of the city?)
Bay Area (Thinking San José for this one though to be honest, many are fleeing Cali).
Catching up here . . .
EP, I maintain the GIS parcel layer for New Castle County, Delaware. I was also stake membership clerk for sixteen years, and one stake president in particular (I served under three) had me handle the GIS maps for boundary changes. (Toward the end, the stake presidency even had me produce the first draft for such changes.) In all, ten of the fourteen geographic units in the stake were affected. (The stake has since divided.)
Jonathan Reese Whiting: According to the Church Almanac, one in four people in Harkers Island is a member. I actually had an elders' quorum president at BYU from there. I later lived in North Carolina for a few years (and lived across the street from the original Raleigh temple when it was being built). Every nook and cranny in the eastern part of the state has a Church unit. I meant to catch up with Bill (a relative of his was a stake president out that way) once I knew a little bit more about the history. So eastern NC could get a temple somewhere at some point.
I think western NC will get one sooner. It depends on how much pull East Tennessee has toward that. I still see a temple in Asheville as more likely than temples in both Charlotte and Knoxville, but I see Charlotte as more likely than Asheville. Asheville stake is in Knoxville mission. My ex-girlfriend's mother lives in that stake, but I'm obviously not going to just call her to see how things are on the ground there.
As for Milan, Milan mission (I was in Padova mission, which is currently completely part of Milan) has six stakes, including two based in Milan. Ticino canton in Switzerland is part of one of the Milan stakes. I could see a temple there if Rome gets busy, it might not include Florence stake as much of it is very close to Rome. (Once the other companionship in my apartment / district sneaked down there on a Saturday.)
One thing about Italy - thanks to "centers of strength" there are many cities and whole provinces there that are untapped. Some had groups or branches at one time, but not all. Many wards and branches cover big areas with a meetinghouse somewhere in the middle. I'm hoping the temple has piqued curiosity in some people in those areas, but it may be a while before that bears fruit.
There is some action happening generally in the rural area towns outside Las Vegas. A real estate agent reported the market has suddenly gotten hot as people are looking to leave Vegas nlw. Blue Diamond Road is how you leave for there, 'over the hump to Pahrump', good 4-lane road. But that is not expected to make that much of a dent. Economic factors, such as high unemployment, are more likely to take their toll. Media reports say unemployment is the highest in the nation there. West or northwest is more likely, Henderson is only a few miles from the Bonanza Road location, and it is some distance from west of the I-15 to the current one.
Rexburg maybe that property across from the Walmart mentioned is a likely place. Other places on the US highway are small and north Rexburg would take care of the areas north.
San Jose would also serve two smaller cities on the 5 and 99 south of Stockton as many commute to the Bay Area via 205 and 580. But the traffic is horrible most times of the day on those two freeways. I also would include Stockton.
Some thoughts on California:
Yes, people are fleeing the state - including some relatives of mine who moved to Alpine, Utah in 1994 even though the father's job was still on the Southern Peninsula (Los Altos specifically). At the same time, there are still a lot of members there, and the Church has been playing catch-up in providing them temples, even if you don't consider travel time to the larger ones like Los Angeles, Oakland, or San Diego. So if President Nelson announces another twenty temples next weekend (and no, I don't see him making it to 107, maybe 100) I could see another one in California. (I have no idea specifically where.)
The next Rexburg Temple will be right across from Walmart.
I think Pres Nelson will live at least another 5 years.
Yes, the next Rexburg Temple will be right across from Walmart.
Yes the next temple will be across from Walmart in Rexburg.
I'm not disagreeing as I don't have any knowledge of the Rexburg area, but how does everyone know where the exact place will be? Does the Church own the parcel there or are there inside knowledge or is it just the most likely place?
I'm curious about how many of the new temple designs do not include an Angel Moroni statue. It seems like the trend is moving away from including it. Will all temples built from now on not have an Angel Moroni? Is that a way of downplaying our differences with other Christian religions? A move in line with a re-emphasis on Christ as the center of our worship?
Anything under an hour is nothing. Penon Penh to Bankock is over 11 hours and some have called them close.
In some countries sub-standard roads make even short distances take hours.
Richfield will not get a temple because of distance but because of combinations of use and wanting to involve more people in temple work in all ways. The latter factor may be a bigger one than we realize.
San Jose is officially classed as a separate metro area from San Francisco. It is not the most populous templeless metro area in the US. That is Tampa.
@JPL
Strange coincidence, ya'll!
We have a conversation here just a few days ago about North Carolina and the Catawba Tribe, and then I just checked my completed Temple Sealings List and found this couple had been sealed that I gave to my friend in Ogden a few months ago (the birth location hadn't stood out to me until now):
Sidney "Sid" Albert Keever
Male
Annie Lee Stowe Keever
Female
Birth:
19 APR 1869
Newton, Catawba, NC, USA
SS
Completed
25 August 2021
Ogden Utah Temple
I think someone may be listening on the other side. :)
@ Johnathan
I'm pleasantly surprised you remembered, here is mine for this conference:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M1inFRYjd7FKY55qJCUZPgnpyNwUy5v1/view?usp=sharing
It's becoming more difficult to pick for the US section and the Latin America section. So, if your favorite pick isn't on there, then write it down on the wildcard spot. I did a work competition last conference (at BYU) and I had several people fill one out. Having 20 temple announced made it fun to compare how much others advanced the temples that got announced.
Não se preocupe, Daniel, eu também uso o Google para muitos do meu português. :)
Eu adoraria visitar essa região do Brasil algum dia. A comida parece deliciosa! Eu mesmo moro no estado de Montana, que também é muito rural e montanhoso. Temos uma rica história de mineração de ouro (e prata) aqui também.
Talvez um dia nos possamos visitar? Você me mostrará os jardins barrocos do sudeste do Brasil e apresentarei a você as profundas florestas de pinheiros e lagos do nordeste de Montana. :)
@Matt: thanks for putting this map together!! Just fyi, I don’t see the temple announced for Ephraim on the map.
Puerto Montt/Osorno, Chile
Osorno/Puerto Montt, Chile
Tacna, Peru
Deal, my friend! I still have a dream of exploring the heavenly west and riding horses in Montana's open fields... It will be wonderful to have your company as an experienced guide. The only problem for me today is the dollar exchange! Maybe soon we can do that. In the meantime, plan to come to Brazil! But only after the disease is under control and the Genocide ruler arrested, it doesn't seem to be very safe before...
Thanks a bunch for sharing the bracket, Cory! Looking forward to filling it out with my family tomorrow. :)
@John
Thanks for the additional info about North Carolina. :)
@Daniel Moretti
Sounds like a plan, Dan! (sorry, I switched back to English for this one).
Though I haven't ridden a horse since I was like, 5 years old. Perhaps you can teach me? ;)
Oh, and thanks for explaining earlier about the Mercosur laws that govern travel between the Triple Frontier countries. I guess then that it won't matter so much which side of the border they put the temple in (when they announce it) if the citizens there can travel back and forth freely.
@Eric S.
The design of the Belo Horizonte tower is also very similar to Meridian:
https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/meridian-idaho-
Which circles back to the Cardston discussion, because I have an inkling Meridian was based Cardston, too.
@Nancy
"I'm curious about how many of the new temple designs do not include an Angel Moroni statue...(Is it) a move in line with a re-emphasis on Christ as the center of our worship?"
Seeing what The Prophet has been doing with re-branding over the last few years (new Christus logo, de-emphasis on the term,"Mormon," re-emphasis on the full name of the Church), my guess would be that's correct.
I can think of one specific example:
Bangkok. Since many Buddhist and Hindu shrines have golden statues of Buddha and Hindu gods on them, respectively, I can totally see why The First Presidency (or the Temple Dept. - whoever made the final decision), would decide to remove Moroni after initially including him in the first rendering - don't want people to think we worship Moroni.
You've most likely noticed that some of the new renderings still have the Angel included, while many do not. I haven't counted the exact number so far (maybe one of the other commenters here has or will), but another guess of mine is just President Nelson's desire to save money where possible (taking account for the widow's mite), even if if just a few thousand dollars.
He may have decided too that since the angel statues are optional (not a completely necessary part of the worship we perform there, anyway), that those statueless spires can always have one attached later (as we saw happen to several temples in the early 2000s during the Hinckley Era Temple Boom). Perhaps during a future renovation.
@Butterfly and Bones
You're welcome. :)
The Pakistan prospect must not be as in vogue as it was the last few conferences, as it was showing up on more lists by other commenters previously.
I was leaning toward some of the more dark horse candidates this time, so I included it.
Most of my information comes from our own Matt Martinich's diligent research back in 2019, which you can access here:
http://ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com/2019/11/updated-country-profile-pakistan.html?m=1
and here:
https://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=countries&cnt_res=1&wid=162&cmdfind=Search
In short, membership is growing rapidly there, and they have three districts.
Other reason is the need for a temple near the Saints of the Restored Church of Jesus Christ in the Northern India/Pakistan region (since Bangalaru is far away in the south).
The conflict between India and Pakistan in general and dispute over the Kashmir region in particular is why several of us hope for a temple in both New Delhi and Pakistan.
However, as we heard from the talk this conference about the Finnish and the Russian Saints learning to reconcile their differences through temple worship, perhaps we'll see a similar thing occur if a temple is built on one side of the India/Pakistan border or another?
It is possible that on the next conference, the church president could announce a second temple in Lisbon, Portugal, Gaborone, Botswana, a temple in Mar del Plata
I'm going to add a I heard a rumor from someone comment.
Brother in law, stake presidency in West Jordan.
Temple being considered in his stake boundaries. 20-30 acre site across from their stake center.
I think for April 2022 general conference at the end. I have a top 20 list of possible new temples prediction
I. Lisbon North, Portugal
II. Bo, Sierra Leone
III. Ulanbataar, Mongolia
IV. Las Palmas, Canary Islands
V. Santiago DLC (De los Caballeros), Dominican Republic
VI. Barcelona, Spain
VII. Milan, Italy
VIII. Rosario, Argentina
IX. Santa Ana, El Salvador
X. Cancún, Mexico
XI. Kingston, Jamaica
XII. Iquitos, Perú
XIII. Spanish Fork, Utah
XIV. Charlonne, North Carolina
XV. Cleveland, Ohio
XVI. Augusta, Maine
XVII. Milwaukee, Wisconsin
XVIII. Wichita, Kansas
XIX. Evanston, Wyoming
XX. Bakersville, California
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