Does anyone have a report or even a rough idea of the population of the church by language? I know that English, Spanish and Portuguesa come in at 1,2,3. But what comes after that and how big are the gaps number wise?
Does anyone know the population of the church by language? I know that English, Spanish and Portuguesa come in at 1,2,3. But comes afterwards? How big are the gaps?
The Church has renamed the Washington County Utah Temple to be "Red Cliffs Utah Temple", according to Rick's churchofjesuschristtemples.org site yesterday. And verified on the official church website temples announced list.
Sudan is scrapping its 30-year old apostasy law which assigned the death penalty to those who convert from Islam. Seems like a significant step in the direction of religious freedom and worth posting to this site, here's an article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-53379733
Today there has been a nomination for the deletion of the articles on Gerrit W. Gong and Ulisses Soares in Wikipedia. They got so much coverage in the New York Times and elsewhere at the time of their calls as apostles, every other apostle has an article in Wikipedia, and Elder Soares survived a deletion attempt shortly after his call so I thought this would not happen. I was wrong.
So far I have added a review of Elder Gong's 1984 book entitled "The Standard of Civilisation in International Society''. I have also added three articles from publications not at all controlled by the Church that give significant coverage to Elder Gong's presiding over and leading out in the meeting that introduced the new Children and Youth Program. I also have noted 2 more works found through Google books in the deletin discussion that significantly react to Elder Gong's 1984 book and also This google book link [https://books.google.com/books?id=l_fnDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=gerrit+gong&source=bl&ots=vR7d6zRzDi&sig=ACfU3U2iJlEwYmyjgw6mNczqOborvRYfOg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjM35__psrqAhWOUs0KHdZ2Cw84MhDoATABegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=gerrit%20gong&f=false] where a footnote thanks Professor Gong for his work on the subject of memory and history in Asia and Southeast Asia. I also added some sources related to Elder Gong accompanying President Nelson on the Pacific Ministry Tour. If others can help by finding more sources, the less connected to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in their method of publication the better, it would help. Also more sources on Elder Soares would help.
To Unknown, regarding Church membership by language:
In a study done 20 years ago, when membership was only 60% of today's total, these were the top ten languages by membership:
English, 5,435,327 Spanish, 3,227,270 Portuguese, 780,016 Tagalog, 146,294 (spoken in The Philippines) Japanese, 108,709 Cebuano, 100,853 (spoken in The Philippines) Samoan, 93,512 (approx. 22,000 more than membership in Samoa and American Samoa) Ilokano, 86,722 (spoken in The Philippines) Korean, 71,690 Tongan, 66,458 (approx. 22,000 more than membership in Tonga)
If this survey is done today, French will be high in the ranking because of all the new membership in African francophone countries, Spanish will be near 4,000,000, and Portuguese will be approaching 1,500,000.
Languages in 2005, but still very helpful: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2006/10/news-of-the-church/church-works-to-meet-members-needs?lang=eng
Correction regarding current Spanish-speaking membership: In a 2005 estimate of languages used by Church members, Spanish was found to be spoken by 31.1% of total membership, and so current Spanish speaking membership would be in the neighborhood of 5,150,000.
French has to be much higher now. For example, especially compared to Japanese. There are currently 28 stakes in Japan, France has 10 stakes, Ivory Coast has 15 stakes and another 16 districts. Certainly French has passed up Japanese and be in 5th place behind Tagalog (Philippines has 114 stakes.)
For languages spoken by more than 99% of saints in any given country you only need to add up the totals. In the case of Spanish, it is easily above 5.000.000. The complication might be with countries like the US where many languages can be found in special branches and groups or Africa where official languages are not the ones spoken by most church members.
Again, Christopher, I hope you're joking here. Have you forgotten that Wyoming's first temple is still known today as the Star Valley Wyoming Temple. The moniker that includes the valley name (since it is the first) need not cause confusion. Any other temples built anywhere in that area, whether in the Valley itself or in another part of the county, could simply be named after the city in which they are built. Would you really prefeer the CHurch to ditch the Tooele Valley name for this temple and go with a name like Erda Utah Temple?
I remember a few short years ago there was a group of musicians here in Utah that spoofed popular songs for special occasions, like when well-known KSL news anchors or members of the weather team retired. I believe it was that same group that did a spoof of the Beach Boys song "Kokomo" in tribute to cities and towns here in Utah with unusual name. When the song referenced Erda, the lyrics pay tribute to "a name I never hearda." It would be a unique name, to be sure, but I think the Church would be better served to keep the generic Tooele Valley name for the temple in Erda, and then name any subsequent temples built in the Tooele Valley after the name of the city in which they are built, or in tribute to prominent landmarks.
FWIW, a new article from the Tooele Transcript Bulletin notes that the Church is hoping to have a groundbreaking for the Tooele Valley Utah Temple in late August, but if a current petition generates sufficient support through signature gathering now underway, the temple in the Tooele Valley and the surrounding development could be put on the ballot in the November elections, which would in turn delay that temples groundbreaking to late 2020 or even early-to-mid 2021, along with a possible redesign for the residential development and the temple itself. I hope that doesn't pass.
But we should soon have word about groundbreaking arrangements for the Red Cliffs and Taylorsville Utah Temples no matter what happens with the Tooele Valley Temple. Hope this information is helpful to all who read this comment.
Unless you do a study of language spoken at home and interviews of lots of members I think people are guessing in the dark about language usage. In Guatrmala there is at least one native language stake. There are millions who speak only indigenous languages in Mexico. I strongly suspect in whahaca, Oaxoaxa or however you spell it many Church members attending Spanish speaking units do not speak Spanish at home.
You have the same with Guarani in Paraguay and Quechua in Bolivia and parts of Peru.
For the same reasons I think French speaking members are under counted in Canada.
My guess is they'll call it the Erda Temple. But perhaps they'll keep it as "Tooele Valley" so that no one in the area gets jealous and the whole county feels like it's "their" temple collectively.
It's so centrally located between the centers of population at Stansbury, Grantsville and Tooele City that it is a fitting name. Grantsville is expanding East with new boundaries. Stansbury is growing to the southwest as well, and maybe Erda will be divided 3 ways and no longer exist soon enough. So, I don't think it will go by "Erda" anyway.
Nahuatl is spoken by approximately one million in Mexico, which is the biggest indigenous tongue. Mayan is maybe second, but maybe has more? There is east and west Mayan... I bet Guatemala has more native American language speakers.
There is a significant Nahuatl speaking contingent of Church members, albeit most are bilingual Spanish, and thus, do all the services in Spanish. No one has ever come around to translating the Book of Mormon in Nahuatl which I think is a travesty when further south there are translations into Mam, Kakchiquel, K'ek'chi, Yucatec Maya, Tzotzil, and a Tzeltal translation is underway.
Zapotec is spoken by a huge number of people too albeit the Church in Oaxaca is mostly in places where there is bilingualism with Spanish. I don't think there is a Zapotec translation nor is it in the pipeline.
It is not uncommon along the Brazil/Paraguay border to find TV stations that either broadcast in Guarani, Spanish, or Portuguese. Occasionally running programs in two or even all three at different times. So there are a few in Brazil who may speak it along with the expected Spanish similar to wherever else borders Brazil
Nahuatl is also related to the Ute language (both part of the Uto-Aztecan family) from which Utah gets its name.
I think it would be interesting to see the Book of Mormon translated into as many Native Tongues as possible, particularly Nahuatl (the language of the Aztecas/Mexicas), as we have such a rich LDS cultural heritage in Mexico, and our culture has tied the Aztecs (along with the Mayans) to the Nephites/Lamanites for so long.
It could also do some good in preserving the language, and might get some Mexican scholars interested in studying the BOM (as it is apparently "one of the most well-documented and studied languages of the Americas."
Oh yeah, and I forgot the most famous and world-renowned Nahuatl word: "chocolate."
From Wikipedia: "English has also absorbed words of Nahuatl origin, including "avocado", "chayote", "chili", "chocolate", "atlatl", "coyote", "peyote", "axolotl" and "tomato"."
I think both the Zapotec and Nahuatl translations are needed. I also think we should easily have 50 translations of various languages in process just 10 for Nigeria alone.
I am hoping Elder Sitati as area president in the Africa Central Area pushes for more translations of materials into languages there.
Insisting that translations be done by Church members who are native speakers of the language and for the Book of Mormon drawing them from English to that language does create a high bar to get them done.
28 comments:
Does anyone have a report or even a rough idea of the population of the church by language? I know that English, Spanish and Portuguesa come in at 1,2,3. But what comes after that and how big are the gaps number wise?
Does anyone know the population of the church by language? I know that English, Spanish and Portuguesa come in at 1,2,3. But comes afterwards? How big are the gaps?
The Church has renamed the Washington County Utah Temple to be "Red Cliffs Utah Temple", according to Rick's churchofjesuschristtemples.org site yesterday. And verified on the official church website temples announced list.
Sudan is scrapping its 30-year old apostasy law which assigned the death penalty to those who convert from Islam. Seems like a significant step in the direction of religious freedom and worth posting to this site, here's an article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-53379733
Today there has been a nomination for the deletion of the articles on Gerrit W. Gong and Ulisses Soares in Wikipedia. They got so much coverage in the New York Times and elsewhere at the time of their calls as apostles, every other apostle has an article in Wikipedia, and Elder Soares survived a deletion attempt shortly after his call so I thought this would not happen. I was wrong.
So far I have added a review of Elder Gong's 1984 book entitled "The Standard of Civilisation in International Society''. I have also added three articles from publications not at all controlled by the Church that give significant coverage to Elder Gong's presiding over and leading out in the meeting that introduced the new Children and Youth Program. I also have noted 2 more works found through Google books in the deletin discussion that significantly react to Elder Gong's 1984 book and also This google book link [https://books.google.com/books?id=l_fnDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=gerrit+gong&source=bl&ots=vR7d6zRzDi&sig=ACfU3U2iJlEwYmyjgw6mNczqOborvRYfOg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjM35__psrqAhWOUs0KHdZ2Cw84MhDoATABegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=gerrit%20gong&f=false] where a footnote thanks Professor Gong for his work on the subject of memory and history in Asia and Southeast Asia. I also added some sources related to Elder Gong accompanying President Nelson on the Pacific Ministry Tour. If others can help by finding more sources, the less connected to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in their method of publication the better, it would help. Also more sources on Elder Soares would help.
To Unknown, regarding Church membership by language:
In a study done 20 years ago, when membership was only 60% of today's total, these were the top ten languages by membership:
English, 5,435,327
Spanish, 3,227,270
Portuguese, 780,016
Tagalog, 146,294 (spoken in The Philippines)
Japanese, 108,709
Cebuano, 100,853 (spoken in The Philippines)
Samoan, 93,512 (approx. 22,000 more than membership in Samoa and American Samoa)
Ilokano, 86,722 (spoken in The Philippines)
Korean, 71,690
Tongan, 66,458 (approx. 22,000 more than membership in Tonga)
If this survey is done today, French will be high in the ranking because of all the new membership in African francophone countries, Spanish will be near 4,000,000, and Portuguese will be approaching 1,500,000.
Languages in 2005, but still very helpful: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2006/10/news-of-the-church/church-works-to-meet-members-needs?lang=eng
Correction regarding current Spanish-speaking membership: In a 2005 estimate of languages used by Church members, Spanish was found to be spoken by 31.1% of total membership, and so current Spanish speaking membership would be in the neighborhood of 5,150,000.
French has to be much higher now. For example, especially compared to Japanese. There are currently 28 stakes in Japan, France has 10 stakes, Ivory Coast has 15 stakes and another 16 districts. Certainly French has passed up Japanese and be in 5th place behind Tagalog (Philippines has 114 stakes.)
For languages spoken by more than 99% of saints in any given country you only need to add up the totals. In the case of Spanish, it is easily above 5.000.000. The complication might be with countries like the US where many languages can be found in special branches and groups or Africa where official languages are not the ones spoken by most church members.
What about Australian? Just kidding.
Perhaps Igbo is a top ten language by now. Maybe as many as some Filipino languages like Ilokano...
I wish the Tooele Valley Utah Temple would get renamed too so it doesn't sound silly years from now when the Tooele Valley has five more temples.
Again, Christopher, I hope you're joking here. Have you forgotten that Wyoming's first temple is still known today as the Star Valley Wyoming Temple. The moniker that includes the valley name (since it is the first) need not cause confusion. Any other temples built anywhere in that area, whether in the Valley itself or in another part of the county, could simply be named after the city in which they are built. Would you really prefeer the CHurch to ditch the Tooele Valley name for this temple and go with a name like Erda Utah Temple?
I remember a few short years ago there was a group of musicians here in Utah that spoofed popular songs for special occasions, like when well-known KSL news anchors or members of the weather team retired. I believe it was that same group that did a spoof of the Beach Boys song "Kokomo" in tribute to cities and towns here in Utah with unusual name. When the song referenced Erda, the lyrics pay tribute to "a name I never hearda." It would be a unique name, to be sure, but I think the Church would be better served to keep the generic Tooele Valley name for the temple in Erda, and then name any subsequent temples built in the Tooele Valley after the name of the city in which they are built, or in tribute to prominent landmarks.
FWIW, a new article from the Tooele Transcript Bulletin notes that the Church is hoping to have a groundbreaking for the Tooele Valley Utah Temple in late August, but if a current petition generates sufficient support through signature gathering now underway, the temple in the Tooele Valley and the surrounding development could be put on the ballot in the November elections, which would in turn delay that temples groundbreaking to late 2020 or even early-to-mid 2021, along with a possible redesign for the residential development and the temple itself. I hope that doesn't pass.
But we should soon have word about groundbreaking arrangements for the Red Cliffs and Taylorsville Utah Temples no matter what happens with the Tooele Valley Temple. Hope this information is helpful to all who read this comment.
Unless you do a study of language spoken at home and interviews of lots of members I think people are guessing in the dark about language usage. In Guatrmala there is at least one native language stake. There are millions who speak only indigenous languages in Mexico. I strongly suspect in whahaca, Oaxoaxa or however you spell it many Church members attending Spanish speaking units do not speak Spanish at home.
You have the same with Guarani in Paraguay and Quechua in Bolivia and parts of Peru.
For the same reasons I think French speaking members are under counted in Canada.
My guess is they'll call it the Erda Temple. But perhaps they'll keep it as "Tooele Valley" so that no one in the area gets jealous and the whole county feels like it's "their" temple collectively.
It's so centrally located between the centers of population at Stansbury, Grantsville and Tooele City that it is a fitting name. Grantsville is expanding East with new boundaries. Stansbury is growing to the southwest as well, and maybe Erda will be divided 3 ways and no longer exist soon enough. So, I don't think it will go by "Erda" anyway.
Nahuatl is spoken by approximately one million in Mexico, which is the biggest indigenous tongue. Mayan is maybe second, but maybe has more? There is east and west Mayan... I bet Guatemala has more native American language speakers.
Oaxaca. Pronounced "Wa-Ha-Kah."
Aren't there a lot of Guarani speakers in Brazil, too, JPL, or am I mistaken?
I think you may be right about the miscounting of bilinguals and native speakers.
Plus, all the bilingual missionaries and RMs who might not be counted, as it's not their primary spoken language.
There is a significant Nahuatl speaking contingent of Church members, albeit most are bilingual Spanish, and thus, do all the services in Spanish. No one has ever come around to translating the Book of Mormon in Nahuatl which I think is a travesty when further south there are translations into Mam, Kakchiquel, K'ek'chi, Yucatec Maya, Tzotzil, and a Tzeltal translation is underway.
Zapotec is spoken by a huge number of people too albeit the Church in Oaxaca is mostly in places where there is bilingualism with Spanish. I don't think there is a Zapotec translation nor is it in the pipeline.
It is not uncommon along the Brazil/Paraguay border to find TV stations that either broadcast in Guarani, Spanish, or Portuguese. Occasionally running programs in two or even all three at different times. So there are a few in Brazil who may speak it along with the expected Spanish similar to wherever else borders Brazil
There is at least selections of the Book of Mormon in Guarani.
How many people speak Portunhol? I read that there were radio stations that use it.
I love Nahuatl!
We actually have a few common words in English that come from it:
Tomato
Avacado
Coyote
Plus, lots of words in it end with "atl, " "itl," "etl," or "otl" - making it fun to speak:
Quetzalcoatl
Atlatl
Macuahuitl
Ehecatl
Popocatepetl
Xolotl
Axlotl
Fun Fact:
Nahuatl is also related to the Ute language (both part of the Uto-Aztecan family) from which Utah gets its name.
I think it would be interesting to see the Book of Mormon translated into as many Native Tongues as possible, particularly Nahuatl (the language of the Aztecas/Mexicas), as we have such a rich LDS cultural heritage in Mexico, and our culture has tied the Aztecs (along with the Mayans) to the Nephites/Lamanites for so long.
It could also do some good in preserving the language, and might get some Mexican scholars interested in studying the BOM (as it is apparently "one of the most well-documented and studied languages of the Americas."
According to Wikipedia, that is:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahuatl
Oh yeah, and I forgot the most famous and world-renowned Nahuatl word: "chocolate."
From Wikipedia: "English has also absorbed words of Nahuatl origin, including "avocado", "chayote", "chili", "chocolate", "atlatl", "coyote", "peyote", "axolotl" and "tomato"."
I think both the Zapotec and Nahuatl translations are needed. I also think we should easily have 50 translations of various languages in process just 10 for Nigeria alone.
I am hoping Elder Sitati as area president in the Africa Central Area pushes for more translations of materials into languages there.
Insisting that translations be done by Church members who are native speakers of the language and for the Book of Mormon drawing them from English to that language does create a high bar to get them done.
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