Please click here to complete a survey regarding the growth of the Church in your ward, branch, or member group. Your responses will be utilized for research purposes for cumorah.com.
Please click here to complete a survey regarding the growth of the Church in your ward, branch, or member group. Your responses will be utilized for research purposes for cumorah.com.
73 comments:
Aside from possibly question#8, the questionnaire doesn't address the main issue of wards in places like California facing huge declines and closures, and that is the very large out-migration of active membership, where the missionary work cannot replenish these very real losses.
Completed. Hope it helps.
Completed survey.... tithing transperacy is my bigger issue at the moment and probably the same for Canadians and Japanese members. Recent exposure in Australia on national television didn't help either.
A new district has been organized from the Tanzania Dar es Salaam district, according to the district's Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/thechurchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaintsdar
The Chang'ombe district includes four branches: Chang'ombe, Mbagala, Chanika, and Kigamboni. Two of these branches were created within the past year, and the Mbagala branch was created in 2020.
Temple news, two dedications next spring, Columbus, Ohio and Richmond, Virginia. Heard that a temple presidency member in Vancouver told a stake that the temple is running at 55 percent capacity right now. Also they are running five sessions a day, two in the morning and 3 in the evening, 27 seats per endowment room and they have two.
Ohhappydane33 I agree, this doesn't address what has become a weekly occurrence - stakes closing wards and expanding the boundaries of others. I've read recently of several in AZ doing this - Gilbert Seville, Mesa South (from 9 to 6 wards) and Mesa North shedding two wards yesterday. All from Reddit threads but definitely some activity happening in the non-growth realm.
One of the Gilbert consolidations resulted from slower-then-anticipated growth rather than declining numbers.
Gilbert is a case where it was the area everyone was moving to from the older core area in Mesa 20 years ago, now they are moving SE to outside the 202 freeway and down the Ellssworth and Ironwood/Ganzel Road corridors.
Some rumors about a temple for Queen Creek put it about the north end of all that, about Signal Butte or Ironwood by the old GM proving grounds, and just north of the 24 freeway which has been completed, in skeleton form, to Signal Butte or Ironwood.
I can't imagine how a Queen Creek temple could possibly be warranted when membership is migrating further and further away from the Mesa temple. But in that context many (maybe even most) of the temple announcements in the past few years make little sense.
Also, I heard that 1/3 of the present operating temples are at or under 12k square feet in size, that is also in some cases helping to drive announcements of temples near them but also enough of a distance away from them.
The Church New just ran an article on Elder D. Todd Christopherson visiting Kinshasa. The DR Congo Kinshasa West mission has 160 missionaries, all Congolese, and will very soon be over 200. The west mission includes some of Kinshsa, and also places like Makrudi to the west, the areas to the west have only had church presence a few years. It is the DR Congo Kinshasa East Mission that may be geographically the largest mission in DR Congo, and includes huge areas where the Church has no branches. While much of this is lightly inhabited jungle areas, and villages that you have to walk long distances to get to because there are no roads in, there are also cities in the north of DR Congo. I believe one has recently seen multiple branches formed. The DR Congo East Mission also covers areas with long histories of Civil unrest. So does the Mbaye-Mbaji Mission, and that mission has had missionaries and members in the midst of civil war.
Just based on some information about unreached places in DR Congo, I am hoping that country gets at least one more mission next year.
I was a little surprised by yesterday's announcement on the Columbus Ohio and Richmond Virginia Temples because it had appeared likely that the Saratoga Springs Utah Temple would have opening arrangements announced either in conjunction with that announcement. It did occur to me to wonder if the Church might make another announcement today or else later this week for at least that temple. I was likewise surprised by the timing since the San Juan Puerto Rico Temple's opening was announced roughly a month before yesterday, but the two announcements yesterday were for dedication in early May and a rededication in early June. It will be interesting to see what the timing is for other temple events.
In the meantime, I wanted to open a new topic for discussion here if I might. Since General Conference weekend, in view of President Nelson's announcement that the Church intends to build multiple temples in major metropolitan areas, I have taken time to do some research on the most populated metro areas worldwide. Of course, that doesn't account for the parameters of the announcement, that multiple temples will be built in "selected large metropolitan areas where travel time to an existing temple is a major challenge", but the list I compiled does suggest some regions where multiple temples could be announced. Here is that list:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zW7bbaU6VI23-P7jA42ETSbrqhuq_6SFoUxmoRtFUl0/edit?usp=sharing
With that list in mind, for you, Matt, and anyone else who might want to weigh in on the question, which "major metropolitan areas" might be looked at for multiple temples? Is my list missing any feasible prospects, based on membership, travel difficulty, etc.? And are there any on the list that may be more likely to be prioritized before some of the others listed? I look forward to any feedback from any of you. And particularly, Matt, if you know of anything that my list doesn't factor in but should, I'd welcome your thoughts as well.
I am trying to understand why the church is building so many temples when the membership is declining especially in areas like California where the membership is going down yet they are building more and more temples there stakes have been dissolved and combined for years in California. In my LDS stake they have realign the words twice in the last few years and it has done no good they are even worse than they were a few years ago we have an average attendance in my word of probably around 80 to 90 people which should be a branch. This is not only an LDS problem but a problem in all religions where people have not come back to church since the pandemic.
Elder Ballard Today's Temples will be used in the Millennium.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/elder-ballard-todays-temples-will-be-used-in-the-millennium?lang=eng
James, in my opinion the two on your list that seem most likely are Manila and Lima.
Manila currently serves 85 stakes and 25 districts. Once the Alabang, Urdaneta, Santiago, and Naga temples are built it will probably be more like 25-35 stakes and 5 districts, but given that it is a fairly small temple I could imagine a third temple being built somewhere in the vicinity of Manila. Angeles, while not in metro Manila, is not too far north and looks like a plausible location.
While Lima is getting a 2nd temple, I think it could easily accommodate a third considering how small the Lima temple is. Lima currently serves 66 stakes and 7 districts, mostly in the Lima metro area, so there appears to be enough members in Lima to justify a third temple.
I think another temple in Kinshasa will eventually happen, given DRC growth rates and the small size of the Kinshasa temple. I would be very surprised if it was in the next 5 years. But I could imagine that happening within 10 years.
Sao Paulo could perhaps get one more, though I don't think it is as strong a case as Lima and Manila. Once the two new ones in Sao Paulo/Santos are finished, Santos will likely serve 5 stakes, and the two Sao Paulo temples approximately 20 each -- so another there is not impossible but would mean a low number of stakes/temple.
Buenos Aires temple district currently has 49 stakes and 13 districts. However, at least 10 stakes and a couple districts seem likely to be assigned to the Bahia Blanca temple once built, and assuming a temple is built in Rosario (which I think is likely) that would take probably 8 stakes and 5 districts. That leaves about 30 stakes and 5 districts to be split between the two temples already in Buenos Aires. At 15 stakes/temple, I don't think a new one would be very likely in the foreseeable future unless attendance at the two temples merited it.
I don't consider LA likely to get another, but I would have said that before the Yorba Linda announcement as well, so I could be wrong. If there is another in the LA area, I suspect it would be either in the vicinity of Thousand Oaks or the Murrieta/Temecula area.
Osaka could see a temple, but it is not part of the Tokyo metro area. I doubt Tokyo will get another. The Vitoria temple will take 3-4 stakes and 1 district from Rio do Janeiro, leaving a small enough number of stakes that I think another Rio temple probably lies a decade+ in the future. Lagos could someday get another, but at the moment there aren't enough stakes there. The Lagos temple district might see one in another city (perhaps Ibadan) in the next decade. New York is an interesting possibility. While it only serves 11 stakes, which does not seem enough to justify another temple, 4 of those are across the river in New Jersey, and if you add the East Brunswick stake from the Philadelphia temple district those 5 would be benefitted by a temple in the NJ part of the NYC area.
Chicago seems unlikely -- there are not many stakes there. Same goes for Seoul and Bogota (though Bogota does have a few more stakes than Seoul or Chicago, and most of them are distant from the temple, so maybe...) The idea of Jakarta, with just 1 stake, or Bangkok, with just 3, getting additional temples seems extremely improbable for the foreseeable future.
A few metro areas not on your list that I can imagine getting another temple (outside of the Mormon corridor) are Houston, TX (I don't think this is super likely, but not super unlikely either, and if Houston continues to grow it only looks more likely with time) and the SF Bay area (San Jose, again not super likely, but not all that hard to imagine). Guatemala City may someday receive a third if attendance at the existing and new one merit it, ditto for a temple on the south side of Santiago, Chile metro area. If growth continues, Abidjan, Ivory Coast and Accra, Ghana could see 2nd temples in the next decade.
--Felix
My top predictions would be
#1 Manila (commute time is horrible there)
#2 Buenos Aires
#3 Denver, CO
#4 London
#5 Rio de Janeiro
Given the church's resources, I would love to see them solve the problem from another angle: provide the funding for infrastructure that will allow people to travel easier in these areas, especially the third-world countries. Throw a few billion dollars into transportation solutions in Manila, and you've solved a lot of the problem and changed a lot of people's lives. Never going to happen, but I can dream.
Verified on Meetinghouse locator, the newly organized "Dar es Salaam Tanzania Chang'ombe District - 2213621"
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/meetinghouses/@-6.874099,39.192063,13s&id=ward:334723
Nope, not the role of the church to boost the infrastructure for random countries across the world just so tens of thousands can get to church/temple easier, and then pay the more expensive part of having to maintain that into perpetuity, or have it collapse when they stop.
In the Philippines they would sponsor active families that had yet to be sealed in the temple and pay all of their travel and lodging costs. This seems like a much more cost effective solution.
The church has invested in local infrastucture projects before, one example is the road leading to the Aba Nigeria Temple:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160604224120/https://www.timesandseasons.org/harchive/2009/01/the-road-to-the-temple/
I agree with the notion that temples are being built in larger numbers today because the Church has the resources to do so, and permitting/supply chain processes (albeit strained) can still support these projects...a reference to possible future events prior to the Second Coming.
As for other metro areas that already contain at least one temple and are likely to receive more temples in the near term, I agree that Manila and Lima are most likely, with 2-4 new temples each, followed by Sao Paulo (1-2), Kinshasa (1), and Abidjan (1). I think London could see a City Center temple, possibly in Hyde Park. For New York City, I think we can see the re-announcement of the Harrison New York Temple on the north end of the metro area, possibly one on the New Jersey side, and as a long-shot, one somewhere down Long Island. I can see another temple in the Houston area, and the Bay Area of California (San Jose seems most likely). I hope the next temple in Colorado is in Colorado Springs, the next in Japan either in Kobe or Osaka (the Kansai Region), and for Arizona (being from there myself), I see the next temple in either Flagstaff/Prescott or Yuma. Gilbert is already so close to Queen Creek, but I now can see a potential Queen Creek Temple in the near future.
Hopefully the supply chain issues get better in the foreseeable future, but I agree that the supply chain issues will get very bad leading up to the 2nd coming, and potentially for a while afterwards. Part of preparing for the 2nd coming seems to be building enough temples for then, which is why it’s not just understandable, but good to build enough temples to run at <50% capacity in the short and medium term.
They already help families attend the temple who, due to distance or other factors, usually economic, would otherwise not be able to. That was called the Temple Patron Assistance Fund and now it is part of the 'general offerings' category on your tithing slip or online donation form. The Temple Construction Fund is now part of that also.
A US infrastructure item built near a temple is the roundabout and its streetlight by the Ft. Lauderdale Florida temple, improvements to streets immediately by new temples are not uncommon either, Hartford, Richmond, a few others see this like in any other construction situation.
Temples of the Lord should improve their surroundings spiritually, which by fiat to Joseph Smith's claim that all things physical are spiritual, (or vice versa), and I believe that to be true, then the physical and temporal areas influenced by temples should improve.
I believe that the neighborhood of the Mexico City Temple was somewhat rundown when built there originally, but that the area has become better over time. I visited there in 2000, but I am not sure how it was before and how it is now.
Providencia in Chile was a nice (i.e. wealthy) area to begin with, but I think that the divine implications and blessings of these temples around the world is a big deal.
On a lighter note, the Cleveland Guardians (former Indians) will not win a World Series until they have a temple running. And, less facetious, the Kirtland Temple will be re-acquired someday, which will be a great thing.
West Virginia will improve as a state when they have a temple, as will every county and state that has one. The future of Africa and everywhere will improve because of the presence of temples and their consequent covenants, promises, and ordinances.
In Brazil, Elder Rasband Testifies of the Savior
"Elder Rasband’s visit to Brazil with his wife, Sister Melanie T. Rasband, included stops in Natal, Recife, BrasÃlia, São Paulo and Porto Alegre."
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/in-brazil-elder-rasband-testifies-of-the-savior-in-facebook-live-messages
Of the cities mentioned from the visit, only one does not currently have a temple built. Just something to think about.
I think Newark NJ could get a small temple.
Felix, the cities grouped together on my list are not in the same metro area, just in the same nation. I should have clarified that. Sorry I didn't.
Pascal, in relation to New Jersey, information I received several years ago indicated that the Church may have land already for a temple in that state, but that it was located in East Brunswick rather than Newark or Princeton. Temples may eventually be present in all 3 cities, but the nature of the information I have indicates East Brunswick is the most likely first New Jersey City to get a temple.
James, thanks for your thoughts. Given the fact that Mexico City was the first metro area to have multiple temples announced, it could be that a couple of other Latin American metro areas might have multiple temples announced before or in conjunction with multiples for Manila.
My "adopted grandparents" who served in the Philippines area office under then-Elder Oaks between 2002-2004 always spoke warmly of the people there. So whenever Manila gets multiple temples, I will welcome that.
Since Nigeria is most likely to have its' own area someday, I wouldn't be surprised to see multiple temples in its' metro areas as the first African nation to see that. And my recent research indicates Kinshasa's second temple might be built at or near the area of the Kinshasa DR Congo Kimbanseke stake.
It is interesting to think about this topic. Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.
Gnesileah, you've brought candidates to my attention that may not have been on my radar. Thanks for those insights.
I don't see East Brunswick specifically getting a temple for several reasons:
1. It's relatively close to Philadelphia and its temple, with good road and rail connections.
2. I've been to the East Brunswick stake center - I don't think there's enough land at that site for a temple, and
3. That site is tucked away in the suburbs, nowhere near any road and rail connections.
I see a New Jersey temple somewhere inside 287.
There is no doubt that the Church has the necessary resources to continue building and maintaining many temples throughout the world.
Despite the fact that in every general conference in recent years, temples have been announced that are clearly not yet used to their full capacity, in fact, I think that temple attendance is still low, if that is compared to the baptized who do their family history and ordinances, are very very few.
It is undeniable that attendance at the chapel every Sunday, the payment of tithes, and the fulfillment of responsibilities in the church are on the decline, however, there are places where there are enough baptisms, but less and less are ministered, people he goes to the chapel out of inertia, I'm not saying that all.
Living the gospel is not easy, and many times leaders are stumbling blocks, they judge and are not capable of being like Jesus.
There is so much to do in the gospel and so few hands for it.
For the same reason I see it that way, in a small part of Santiago de Chile.
JPL, with all due respect, many of us (myself included) had said that the proximity of the Kinshasa DR Congo Temple to Brazzaville made that capital of the Republic of the Congo less likely for a temple than Pointe-Noire or elsewhere. But that assessment was not correct.
So proximity to existing temples is less of a consideration under President Nelson's ambitious temple expansion plans than it may have been under his immediate prophetic predecessors.
My point was that the Church has land for a temple in East Brunswick specifically, and since I've not heard similar reports on any other location in New Jersey, I prioritize what I know.
Also, I said the Church had land in East Brunswick. I never indicated where it was located, nor did I imply that it was the spot on which the stake center now stands. The Church does have a history of either razing existing buildings or using vacant plots of land, and based on the information I have, the land in question has no existing buildings on-site, but even if it does, the Church can clear land on property they own before construction of a temple begins. That happens all the time.
With all of that in mind, unless my information is outdated (I have not seen any subsequent reports to that effect) or unless someone here is aware of Church-owned land elsewhere in New Jersey, again, I stick to what I know. Hope that sets the record straight here.
Had was able to volunteer for a focus group with the church this morning. They were getting feelers on if it would be worth the effort to create an app that essentially brings together anything and everything social media, ie newsroom, posts from church leadership, liahona articles, church media, etc., under a scrollable app. That way you could access all the church content without actually having to be on social media.
I did not make the statement on a temple in East Brunswick. I do not claim enough knowledge of New Jersey to make a good decision on where they might build a temple. I do think after the announcement of 5 additional temples in the Greater Mexico City Metro Area 9broadly defined) this year, somewhere in New Jersey has a strong possiblity of getting a temple. However I do not understand enough about where Church members live, how various levels of transportation work and such to speak to any specific site.
If I had to guess, I would think Church leaders would try to place it with proximity to mass and public transportation.
I also think there is a high probability that there will soon be temples announced for both Baltimore and somewhere in the broad area of Winchester Virgnia, also one in Buena Vista or that general area of Virginia. I know some will say especially the first two are not highly likely with the size of the Washington DC Temple. However if President Nelson is serious about getting a very high percentage of Church members within an hours travel distance of a temple, and pushing forward with making a temple an integral part of the Church experience for most members, I really think we will see this happen. At least in the next 5 or so years, it is harder to predict in the very short term.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a very long history of being involved in all sorts of infastructure building and investment. Mostly in the intermountain west, but as pointed out also for a road to the Aba Nigeria Temple. On the other hand, outside of the intermountain west most of this investment is very closely linked to specific projects.
For example in my tour of sites connected to the history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints last month, I went to Kirtland, the Smith family farm/Sacred Grove in Palmyra, and Oakland Township, Pennsylvania. All those places the Church has paid to relocate roads to make them safer for visitors. Temple Road that the Palmyra Temple is on also may have been funded by the Church, I do not know for sure. Of course this is a far cry from what would be needed to make temples accessible to members in the DR Congo bush, which would be huge amounts of road building. I could see arguments for covering such road building with humanitarian dollars, but to date most dollars have gone to school building, or water system creation. Road building, even if you find a way to create other sources of continuation, gets expensive fast.
Still, under President Nelson, there is a clear push to building temples much closer to members in a lot more areas. He has announced 7 more temples for the Phillipines for example.
It will be interesting to see what comes next.
Christopher Duerig,
I believe when Elder Andersen went to Peru and Bolivia earlier this year, all the cities he visited had a temple announced or operational except Chiclayo, which has since had a temple announced. I am sure we can counter mention apostles and prophets visiting cities that do not have a temple yet. Technically President McKay was in Dakar on his way to South Africa in 1954, and Dakar still does not have a temple, but that was a plane stop with no interactions with members there, because there were none, so it is probably not a good point. Also in the 1950s though President McKay did visit with members in Bora Bora, and they still lack a temple. We could find lots of examples much more recent. Still, I am hoping that Natal gets a temple announced in April.
I think if the Church does build a temple in New Jersey it will be at least 20,000 square feet, and could easily be 30,000 square feet or more. It might how ever have a fairly small footprint and multiple stories. As I said before, I do not claim to deep enough knowledge of New Jersey to predict either a specific location, or what it will be named. It might be named for one place but put somewhere that is only in the general region of that place.
I would propose two major modifications to the questions.
#4 - Should be modified: Why do you believe "active" do not regularly attend church. (Seniors / home bound / lack transportation.)
#12. Change in congregation status during the past 5 years. My ward has been eliminated but my stakes was split into two.
JPL, it appears I owe you an apology. I see what happened. I saw a comment on a new Jersey temple from a "John" and apparently incorrectly assumed it came from you. You are the "John" that contributes the most to comments here, so I made an incorrect assumption. My only excuse (albeit a poor one) is that I have been dealing with extended illness the last week or two that has been significant enough in its' impact on my mental clarity to have caused the confusion in this case. Please accept my profound apologies. I will do whatever is necessary on my end to ensure I don't repeat the error. I hope you can forgive me.
Not a problem - my point was that East Brunswick specifically seems too close to Philadelphia, and too far and out of the way for the rest of North Jersey. Some place closer to, or inside 287 might make a little more sense.
The "other" John
Any word on how Saints in Haiti are coping during the extreme duress going on there? Are full time missionaries still assigned there? Is the temple functioning properly? I figure that the security is good at the temple, but transportation is likely fraught with threats.
Some inside sources have told me that kidnapping is a really bad trend among the gangs in the country, so I could see anyone perceived as having money as a target.
If a bishop or temple worker were kidnapped for ransom, would the Church negotiate with those kidnappers? Anyway, kind of awful thoughts, but I am concerned for a country that has been suffering with severe problems.
I know we had some Church of Jesus Christ and BYU projects doing agricultural projects in Guatemala, and maybe Peru, and even water and energy projects in West Africa. Is the Church of Jesus Christ doing any such things in Haiti?
How are things in Caracas and Venezuela?
Most of Latin America seems to be doing okay, I think. Violence in Mexico, as usual, but the Church is growing.
Since all full-time missionaries in Haiti have been Haitian nationals (and in most if not all cases all Haitian residents as well) for I believe the last 2 decades or more, I doubt that current disruptions have lead to changes in placement of missionaries there by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
There may be factors that have effected people going on missions, and missionaries may at times had to restict movements and other things. and there may be areas where it was deemed too unsafe to place missionaries, but I doubt there have been relocations across international boundaries.
A new district has been created in Arusha, a city in Tanzania, according to the church's Facebook page in Tanzania.
https://www.facebook.com/thechurchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaintsdar
The Arusha Tanzania District consists of the Arusha, Morombo, and Njiro Branches. The Morombo and Njiro Branches were created from the Arusha Branch approximately a year ago.
The specific locations have been announced for the giving machines. Well, we are still waiting on the Washington, DC and Brisbane, Queensland locations. A few other interesting facts.
The "sacramento" machine is actually in Roseville, California. Mexico City and greater Guatemala City actually ended up with 2 machines. The Kansas City machine had a large scale kickoff which included President Johnson, the Relief Society General President, as well as focus for some celebrities with ties to Kansas City. I am hoping that we see a large uptick in donations from last year. You can go to the lighting the world page and donate directly if there is not a giving machine in your area.
The Quito and Belem Temples were dedicated yesterday. It appears no temple related announcments have been made today, but I think that sometimes happens a little later in the afternoon, so I may have checked too soon. On the other hand between Thanksgiving being this week and 2 temples dedicated yesterday, we might not see any announcements this week. We shall see.
Clearly I spoke too soon. The open house and dedication information for the Saratoga Springs Temple was announced today. It will be dedicated on August 3rd by President Eyring.
On another subject I did a time travel calculation about about 4:50 local time. This indicated that from Gary, Indiana to the Chicago Temple if you avoided tools would be 1 hour 56 minutes and to the Grand Rapods Temple would be 2 hours 24 minutes.
Gospel Living app seems to be trying to do that to an extent, or at least specifically for youth.
Sure wish they would fix the messaging circles and notifications on the Gospel Living app. It is so bad, many have turned to other apps to do their messaging to the ward and youth.
Unless I am mistaken, August 3 is a Thursday. The announcement states the dedication will be on August 13, which is a Sunday:
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/open-house-dates-for-saratoga-springs-temple-released
Hope the official link to this information is helpful..
Verified on the Meetinghouse Locator map site, the new "Arusha Tanzania District - 2213613"
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/meetinghouses/@-3.414562,36.793901,11s&id=ward:1000667
How are things in Caracas and Venezuela?
Things in Venezuela are going well as far as the church is concerned. There is growth in membership, although many thousands left the country because of economic problems. We sustain the missions only with missionaries from the country. Since 2005, there are no US missionaries.
Times and Seasons has interesting maps at https://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2022/11/proportion-latter-day-saint-by-county-maps/ showing proportions of Latter-day Saints in the United States, maxing out at 100%, 10%, and 3%. Don't worry about the blank spaces - data was sorted by congregation, and then by county.
The Church is creating more missions in Nigeria, the DR Congo, Cote D'Ivoire, South Africa, and Hungary.
Interesting, Pascal. Any idea what missions they'll be pulling missionaries from to create these new ones?
https://www.thechurchnews.com/global/2022/11/23/23475238/6-new-missions-to-open-in-2023
I don't think they are going to be pulling missionaries away from existing missions. Instead, more resources will be dedicated within each of these areas in order to better reach them. With Covid and travel restrictions largely history, my best guess is that the number of missionaries is slightly increasing (a 1-2% increase would be plenty to fully staff these new missions and assure that existing missions do not suffer).
Also, I misread the original announcement. The new mission in Hungary will actually be in Romania.
@James, I don't know what missions they will be pulling missionaries from to create those missions in the short run. I do know that President Nelson has a goal to double the number of missionaries in the next 5 years.
At a mission reunion this past October, my former mission president, now a 70 assigned to the missionary department, told us several interesting things related to missionary work. Firstly, they are in the process of re-writing Preach My Gospel so that it is on a fifth grade reading comprehension level in order to make it more accessible to less educated potential missionaries (I have mixed feelings about the dumbing-down of church literature over the past several decades but I recognize there are good reasons for it in terms of expanding the pool of those who can use it, even if it does have drawbacks IMO). Secondly, he said that among eligible mission-age young men (didn't clarify what eligible means, I don't know if that is "those who hold limited-use recommends" or "those who are active" or what) 40% in Utah serve missions, 20% in the rest of the US do so, and 10-20% in the rest of the world do so, varying by country. He then mentioned President Nelson's goal of doubling the number of missionaries in 5 years. Simply increasing the percent of eligible young men who choose to serve missions from outside Utah to Utah rates would get you most of the way there.
While that doesn't answer the question of who will fill these newly created missions right away, I think it is some insight into the HQ hope of being able to create new missions without having to pull away missionaries from existing ones.
--Felix
Felix, your post reminds me of the scholarly work done by James E. Talmage in "The Articles of Faith" and "Jesus the Christ."
Many years ago as a young missionary I was encouraged to read these books and use them for teaching investigators, and we were provided with a special booklet of around 300 somewhat obscure vocabulary words found in those books, with definitions and explanations of these words.
I'm sure the Brethren believed that alteration of any of Elder Talmage's wording would be anathema. To this day I turn to these writings for greater understanding of Gospel principles.
Matt, I look forward to your analysis on these new missions whenever you are able to provide it. In the meantime, the official Newsroom release may have been updated from its' original version. It's relatively common for the Church to provide an initial release highlighting the creation of the new missions, then to update that release as time and the release of additional information allows. The updated release now shows which missions (or parts of missions) will be affected by these creations:
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/six-new-missions-2023
And Matt, given the fact that 2 of the 5 Africa missions are in Nigeria, that would seem to support your theory about Nigeria being its' own area. From what I've heard on my end, it seems likely that the next new area will either be created next year or the year after. And the fact that Nigeria now has 3 temples announced could possibly play into the decision as far as when to split Nigeria off into its' own area.
I believe we have at least 1 (possibly 2?) native Nigerian GA Seventies currently serving, and the Church has been calling at least 1 African GA Seventy every April for the last several years. So it would make sense if, when the Church has a minimum of 3 native Nigerians, a Nigerian area is created.
I suppose that having a full presidency of Nigerians isn't a requirement, it just occurred to me to wonder if that will play into the timing of the creation of a Nigerian area. Matt, I look forward to your analysis whenever you are able to provide it.
"Elder Soares visits Cuba, Puerto Rico
‘Be of good cheer,’ Elder Ulisses Soares tells Latter-day Saints in Cuba in a Caribbean trip including ministry in Puerto Rico
By Mary Richards 23 Nov 2022, 4:07 PM MST"
https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2022/11/23/23475625/elder-soares-visits-cuba-puerto-rico
James,
You may be thinking of the Democrat Republic of the Congo, which has 2 General Authorities, called a year apart in 2020 and 2021. I believe Elder Adeyinka A. Ojediran, called in 2020, is the first (and so far only) General Authority from Nigeria. The other African GAs currently serving are Isaac K. Morrison from Ghana, Thierry K. Mutombo and Alfred Kyungu, the 2 from DRC that I mentioned, and Edward Dube from Zimbabwe. The first two African GA's, Joseph W. Sitati from Kenya and Christoffel Golden from South Africa (the latter is white), were recently given emeritus status. (The other 2 GA's of Black African descent are Peter M. Johnson from the US, and the late Helvecio Martins of Brazil, who served in the 2nd Quorum of the 70 from 1990-1995.)
I also think we can expect to see more General Authorities called from Africa. It is a bit harder to predict which of the many nations with an LDS presence they will be from. Given the early history and growth of the church in Africa, especially in Ghana and Nigeria, I never would have predicted that Kenya and Zimbabwe would have general authorities before those two countries.
You are correct, twinnumerouno. I knew about Elder Sitati and Elder Dube's nationalities, but got the nationalities of the other four confused. There was also Elder Christoffel Golden from South Africa as well, and Helvecio Martins, who I believe was a Brazilian of African descent. think that, given the growth of the Church in West Africa, we will see several new GA Seventies from that region in the coming years.
I like the idea of them editing Preach My Gospel to reach wider audiences. I don't think we always appreciate how literate we are as a Church in general, or as citizens of first world countries. This was brought to my attention by some investigators on my mission who were from other countries. They pointed out how reading for recreation or as a day to day practice wasn't really a part of their culture.
I'm glad to hear we're trying to meet them halfway.
2 Nephi 31:3
"For my soul delighteth in plainness; for after this manner doth the Lord God work among the children of men. For the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto men according to their language, unto their understanding."
Twinnumwruono,
You are still missing one general authority of African descent. Danelson Silva, called this year, is Afro-Brazilian. He was also mission president in Angola.
Worth mentioning as well as Ahmed Corbett and Tracey Browning. They are general officers of the Church. Ahmed Corbett is African-American. Sister Browning is a native of the US bur her parents came from Jamaica and she was partly raised there, but has mainly lived in the US.
This means of the 15 general officers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2 are of black African descent. Which puts it at basically the same percentage as the US population overall.
The general young women presidency will most likely be changes in April. That presidency is the only general organizational presidency that has always been only people we would describe as Anglos.
The history of non-Anglos in the general presidencies is not very deep. Sister Okazaki was the first, and relief society at 4 has the highest number, followed by Primary at 3, young men at 2 and Sunday School at 1.
No organizational presidency has ever had 2 non-Anglos at once. This does take some measured calls, but I do not think Dister Dennis would count as a non-Anglo. Yes she has at times attended a Spanish-speaking unit and her first child was born in Mexico, but her family was a white family from Mississippi and she grew up entirely in the US.
Because the general presidencies serve on a church service basis not a full time basis they are all called from current residents of Utah. They currently generally serve for 5 years, but as late as the 1990s service would often be longer.
Thanks for that info, JPL- I should have realized that about Elder Silva after seeing him speak in general conference. Another GA I have wondered about is Elder Taniela B. Wakolo from Fiji, who has darker skin than what I usually think of as being typical for Polynesians. But Rick's temple maps show Fiji as part of Melanesia, not Polynesia, and maybe that is more typical and does not mean any African descent.
Thank you for the mention of Brother Corbett and Sister Browning. I should probably start including general officers with my tracking of general authorities given that there are fewer of them than the GAs.
I believe Sister Dennis's husband is Hispanic or at least he has a Spanish first name.
Fijian are classed as Melenesians, because they are as a rule very dark. This is essentially what Melenisian means. Linguistically Fiji is more connected with Polynesia than with the rest of Mrlenesia, but the native people of Fiji look more like those from other Melenesian Islands. I have heard some call Fijians black. This is not per se incorrect, but it does not mean thry have any known connection to the people of Africa, at least not any more than Tongans do.
Sister Dennis' husband is a native of Hermosillo, Mexico. She first met him while in Hermosillo with a BYU program, I went to nearby Ciudad Obregon with a similar program although a few decades later.
I strongly suspect that Brother Jorge Dennis and Elder Hugo Montoya have known each other a long time. More on that in a little.
I dug a little more. This article is about the cleaning company that various relatives of sister Dennis run. The Jorge Dennis mentioned in it is her son not her husband, at least the one whose "family immigrated from Sonora when he was 2 years old." https://www.utahbusiness.com/envirokleen-ceo-on-company-growth/
Jorge Dennis the elder was born in Ciudad Obregon. In 1978 when Annette was in Hermosillo with a program sponsored by the BYU Spanish department, she was 18, Jorge Dennis was about 20, and Hugo Montoya was about 18 as well. Hugo's father was the stake patriarch of the stake that had been formed 2 years before.
In 1979 Jorge goes to Utah to study, in 1980 he and Annette marry. Shortly after that rhry move to Mexico, at least somewhere in Sonora but I cannot say exactly where. About that same time Hugo Montoya returns from his mission in the Mexico North Mission. He also gets the missionaries to start teaching Maria del Carmen Baraso, who works in his family orchard. She gets baptized sometime in 1981 or early 1982, and in April 1983 Hugo and Maria marry in Hermosillo and get sealed at most a few days after in the Mesa Temple, the Mexico City Temple will not be dedicated until December 2, 1983.
About the time Hugo and Maria get married Annette and Jorge move to Utah.
@twinnumerouno
Fijians generally have darker complexions, as they're a part of the Melanesian group (rather than Polynesian).
"Melanesia" literally means "islands of black people" in Greek.
However, the Melanesians genetic history isn't African, but rather more closely related to the Austronesians (indigenous people of East Asia and Oceania), and the Aboriginal Australians.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanesians
In 1978 there was only 1 stake in Hermosillo, and 1 stake in Ciudad Obregon. The stake president in Hermosillo, Hector Ceballos, would later be the first president of the Hermosillo Temple. I wonder how many other men have been both the first stake president and first temple president in the same city?
What I cannot say though is how many districts there may have been in Sonora in 1978. There have since been 2 new stakes formed in Ciudad Obregon, 1 more formed in Hermosillo, and 1 in Guymas, although 1 stake in Ciudad Obregon has been eliminated.
It has been over 19 years since I was in Sonora, and I was not actually there even a full week.
I do remember the one of the first people I was speaking with at the Nainsari Stake Center at some point said to me (in Spanish, I think) "John you know me, we have danced together at dances at BYU". That indicated people were more connected than some thought.
Then the man who was driving me to the home where I would stay told me, I think after I told him where I was from, he had at one point worked in Pontiac, Michigan. So much for my professor back at BYU saying before we left the people would not know our home state, unless it was Texas or California.
Thanks for the info, Jonathan and JPL.
JPL, your "small world" experiences sound pretty fun. I've had some myself, including being with my mom when she discovered she was related to a couple people, one of them being one of the senior missionaries serving there, at a visitor's center in Kirtland. I also went to church in New York with someone who had served with someone from my home ward in New Brunswick, Canada. One of the counselors in my current elders' quorum presidency in Colorado is someone I knew in Maine when I was about 12 and he was about 9 years old.
Probably "small world" experiences can happen to church members anywhere. My dad, in the 60's, served part of his mission in Hong Kong. When he got a new companion from Blanding, Utah, he started teasing him about being from a place so small that even other people in Utah (like dad) didn't know where it was. But one day they were in a camera store in the downtown area (not even church, which might have been more likely) and a man came up to his companion and said "Say, aren't you from Blanding, Utah?" Dad stopped teasing him after that.
@John Pack Lambert
¿Serviste la misión en el norte de México?
I served my mission in Las Vegas. If I had served my mission in Senora I would probably have even more insights on the Dennis family and especially the Montoya family. At the time I started my mission (in Las Vegas, but this is an if statement), Hugo Montoya was president of one of the stakes in Hermosillo and his father Abel Montoya was patriarch of the other stake in Hermosillo.
Of course on the issue of Melensians etc, linguistically the language of Madagascar is far more closely related to the language of Tonga than to any language spoken in mainland Africa.
There are some theories that Madagascar was first settled in roughly AD 800 (give or take 100 or more years) by people who migrated from Java and Sumatra by boat.
However since the people of Madagascar look similar to those of Mozambique far more than those of Indonesia, the theory is that there was mixing with people migrating from the mainland at some point.
There is also a possibility that there were populations on Madagascar far earlier than 800, and that the incoming people from Java and Sumatra were able to get the locals to adopt their language. There is an issue with not really having found the archeological evidence for earlier settlements, but lack of evidence is not the same as evidence of lack.
Interestingly enough, Madagascar is one of the few countries in Africa where The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints heavily uses an indigenous language, Malagasy, instead of using colonial languages.
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