Sunday, December 22, 2019

New Stakes Created in the DR Congo, French Polynesia, and the Philippines; New District in Mozambique

Democratic Republic of the Congo (DR Congo)
The Church organized a new stake in the city of Kananga in the Kasai region of the DR Congo. The Malandji Democratic Republic of the Congo Stake was organized from a division of the Kananga Democratic Republic of the Congo Stake and the Katoka Democratic Republic of the Congo Stake. The new stake includes the following seven wards: the Kamayi 1st, Kamayi 2nd, Kananga 1st, Kananga 2nd, Malandji 2nd, Tshinsambi, and Walikale Wards. The Church organized its first stake in Kananga in 2011 followed by a second stake in 2015. Kananga is the third city in the country to have three stakes in it after Kinshasa (11) and Lubumbashi (4). The new stake is the Church's sixth stake in the Kasai region.

There are now 23 stakes and one district in the DR Congo.

French Polynesia
A new stake was organized that includes Tuamotu Archipelago and Tahiti. The Takaroa Tuamotu District was organized into the Faaa Tahiti Takaroa Stake. The Faaa Tahiti Stake, renamed the Faaa Tahiti Tuamotu Stake, was also divided and five wards in the stake were transferred to the newly organized Faaa Tahiti Takaroa Stake. The Faaa Tahiti Takaroa Stake includes the following eight wards: the Ahurai, Farahei, Oremu, Puurai, Takapoto, Takaroa 1st, Takaroa 2nd, and Vairai Wards. Although information on which branches became wards in the new stake is not available on the Church's meetinghouse website, information from the Church's French Polynesia Facebook page indicates that all branches in the former district became wards in the Faaa Tahiti Takaroa Stake, whereas none of the branches in the Faaa Tahiti Tuamotu Stake became wards. This is the second instance of the Church creating a stake or assigning remote island branches to a stake in French Polynesia within the past five years (the first instance was the inclusion of the Austral Islands into the Papeari Tahiti Stake). This decision may have been made to provide local leadership support to outlying branches and prepare for the creation of a stake that solely operates in Tuamotu one day. Tuamotu is home to some of the oldest Latter-day Saint congregations in the world. For example, the Takapoto Ward was originally organized in 1844 and the Takaroa 1st Ward was first organized in 1851. The Community of Christ has slightly more congregations in Tuamotu than The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints per an article I wrote on cumorah.com five years ago. However, Latter-day Saints have a much larger presence on Tahiti than the Community of Christ. Furthermore, Latter-day Saints have reported slow-to-moderate growth rates in French Polynesia within the past decade (increase of 12 congregations and nearly 8,000 members), whereas the Community of Christ has reported a net increase of only two congregations per the Community of Christ's directory to 59 at present.

There are now 11 stakes and two districts in French Polynesia.

Philippines
The Church organized the Lubao Philippines Stake from the Dinalupihan Philippines District. All five branches in the former district became wards in the new stake, including the Dinalupihan, Floridablanca, Guagua, Lubao 1st, and Lubao 2nd Branches. The original Dinalupihan Philippines District was organized in 1998. The new stake is part of the Philippines Olongapo Mission where the Church has experienced significant progress with the maturation of districts into stakes within the past three years (only one stake in 2016 versus six stakes at present).

There are now 115 stakes and 63 districts in the Philippines.

Mozambique
The Church organized a new district in Mozambique. The Chimoio Mozambique District was created from three branches - two of which were organized the same day as the new district. Branches assigned to the new district include the Baixa, Chimoio, and Soalpo Branches. Chimoio is the fourth city in Mozambique to ever have a district organized after Maputo (2003), Beira (2003), and Nampula (2017). Additional cities appear likely to have new branches organized and have districts created within the foreseeable future, such as Marromeu, Quelimane, and Tete.

There are now four stakes and two districts in Mozambique.

67 comments:

John Pack Lambert said...

While 23 stakes is not necessarily the point for a new temple with no ground travel possible from Lumbumbashi to Kinshasa, you have to go in part by boat, I think a temple for Lumbumbashi is needed. A temple for Kasai region would also not shock me.

Historia Familiar Valenzuela Escobar said...

Son distancias tan grandes entre pueblos, localidad o ciudades, para poder llegar a los templos, es un desafío asistir y que se construyan templos en todo lugar.
Ojalá, llegue el día en que en todo lugar donde se requiera la Iglesia construya un templo por pequeño que sea

James Anderson said...

Getting to Kinshasa, or from areas outside any major city to them, is a major problem in DR Congo. You have to hitch a ride on the outside of a truck sometimes, and the roads are also often not paved.

In either Lubumbashi or Luputa, they held a stake conference and people walked 60 miles one way to attend, they had 85 percent attendance with that condition. The 60 miles was like going from Provo to about Farmington.

Temples in both the Kasai and Lubumbashi areas are possible, more of a midrange thing as they will want a couple more stakes each before they announce them. Kinshasa's is very small, 12k square feet, so they will need them sooner than later, and Elder Andersen said that one day there would be multiple temples in Kinshasa even, that is many years off.

John Pack Lambert said...

I am reading a book entitled Canadian Mormons. I am to the section on Ontario. They mention Ontario covers 415,000 square miles. Texas is only about 270,000 square miles.

I was also reading on Brampton where the Toronto Temple is. That city alone has nearly 600,000 people. After English the most common native language is Punjabi. Only 50.5% of the population is Christian. 18% of the population is Sikh and 12% is Hindu. A total of 44% of the population is of South Asian descent. A further 14% is black. I basically have only ever been to the temple in that city and I last went there in 1999. The city seemed to always be growing.

John Pack Lambert said...

I am not sure they need more stakes. Cambodia is getting a temple with 2 stakes. Okinawa with 1. So Lumbumbashi's 4 stakes are enough in theory to support a temple.

Eduardo said...

I would like there to be a fund for David Nielsen, his wife and kids to go to Congo and Mozambique to see church money at work.
Nielsen lived in Sonora, Mexico, or his brother Lars? I would like to see his pocket analysis and assessments of the church finances there. Oh, Brother Nielsen, we need 74 or more pages on the Church of Jesus Christ in Africa!
Maybe he is not a trustable source to really know...
Good news on the stake growth.

R. Jofre said...

@ Eduardo. Who is this David Nielsen you are talking about? Is this someone who works for the Church or something? I'm very confused.

twinnumerouno said...

JPL,

Yes, Toronto is a very multicultural city. One time when we were there to attend the temple, my younger brothers saw groups of kids of different cultures playing even though they couldn't speak to each other. If I remember correctly, my culture class at the MTC said that Toronto is the most multicultural city in the world, or maybe it was North America, and that Montreal where I was going was not far behind it. This was in the 90's so before the recent influx of refugees in Europe and elsewhere.

James Anderson said...

The Neilsons, according to KSL, were the 'whistleblowers', turns out the way the Church set up the company they were working for was not a 'foundation' but according to tax law, it was an auxiliary, meaning it could handle things like investments tax exempt, large churches generally will have very large sums of money and so that company was needed to handle things. Long story short, disgruntled employees perhaps?

Because of the alleged numbers, I am almost certain that the Church and the IRS and maybe other taxing authorities have regular discussions, sometimes it may well be to prevent a small problem discovered from becoming something worse, and to make things right when something does go wrong.

David Todd said...

I have read the same fact about Toronto.

R. Jofre said...

Thank you, James Anderson. I didn't know about that story. It kind of sounds like something that came up on TV or something, but I don't watch TV or the news. Those things tend to be not really much in the end, and many times they are just noise. Thanks.

Eduardo said...

He was working for the Church or Ensign Peak Advisors until last September until he quit his job and apparently the Church, after his wife and kids. He and his twin brother submitted a 74 page accusation against the Church for hoarding 100 billion dollars from donation funds/charities and investing or lending to two for prophet endeavors. All the major U.S. journals have run the story.

R. Jofre said...

Alright, thanks. I just don't follow the news. Typical news stuff anyway. That is exactly why I left TV and the news behind. In the end, it is all about the rating.

Johnathan Reese Whiting said...

My second-to-last mission companion was from Southern Ontario (London). He informed me that Toronto was the most diverse city in the world. He also told me that the Toronto Temple was under-utilized at the time (this was 2003), hopefully attendance has picked up since then.

Historia Familiar Valenzuela Escobar said...

Jhon :

Es bueno saber que ya no es tan necesario tener tantas estacas o distritos para poder contar con un templo, alguna lógica debe tener la Iglesia para hacerlo y que debería aplicarla en todo el mundo y no en ciertas partes.

Siempre he pensado que si un bautizado tiene un fuerte testimonio deseará ir al templo seguido y hacer su genealogía.

Historia Familiar Valenzuela Escobar said...

Jhon

Que libro es ese que lees de Canadá que es mormón ?

Acá en Chile hay algunas de la historia de la Iglesia y crecimiento, también en Argentina vi que había. Me imagino que deben haber libros de muchos países donde el evangelio está establecido.

Historia Familiar Valenzuela Escobar said...

Está historia a dado mucho que hablar nuevamente sobre el dinero o fondos de la Iglesia.

Llama la atención la cantidad de dinero, es increíble, pero ya nada me sorprende de la Iglesia, me parece que los líderes fueron ambiguos al responder, en fin, esto no es la primera vez qué pasa.

MainTour said...

Does anyone know when the Quincy California Stake was created?

Downtownchrisbrown said...

MainTour: You might find this link helpful:
https://www.thechurchnews.com/archives/2010-02-02/united-states-information-california-67079

John Pack Lambert said...

I am wondering if the Church is still doing the local worker training program to build chapels in the DR Congo.

The Nielsens are young enough that they served under consolidated mission funding and seem to not grasp how much the Church covers missionary costs. All transport to the mission and MTC operation cost. The cheapest missions may still run above the per month charge.

They also do not appreciate how wonderful centralized budgeting and construction costs coverage is. No fundraisers to generate local budgets.

The fact we provide so many things for free from dances to youth programs gets quickly overlooked.

John Pack Lambert said...

David Nielson is an apostate who used to work for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in its investment arm, Ensign Peak Advisors. Mr. Nielson quit that job and filed a complaint with the IRS claiming that the Church is violating tax laws. It is largely built around a misreading of the tax law, in that EPA does not have to directly disburse money as long as the Church does.

He also seems to have under estimated the amount the Church actually spends. Some of his supporting rhetoric shows that he misunderstands some key issues, like the cost of missions. Even though the fixed cost in theory means that missionaries in cheaper missions subsidize those in more expensive ones, it is unclear that this is exactly what is going on. I came across estimates for the cost of senior couple missions, and the cheapest if divided by two was still under $600 a month. The highest was running $2000 per person. Even then, it appears the Church may subsidize housing costs for senior missionaries in the mot expensive missions, so that may not have been a true cost calculation.

Secondly, the $400 now, shifting to $500 in July only applies to the US, Canada, western Europe and Japan. In other countries rates are set by the Area Presidency on a means basis. This does beg why we cannot similarly set things to finance poor missionaries in the US. However I have known enough cases where all or much of the ward mission fund to keep out a missionary was paid by non-family members to know there are multiple ways to achieve this.

Also, if you stop paying on a mission they will not send you home. This is built in the system in large part to make sure it does count as a donation for IRS purposes.

John Pack Lambert said...

My comments were not about Toronto, but Brampton. Brampton is a different city although it is part of the greater Toronto urban complex.

John Pack Lambert said...

I think Quincy California Stake used to have a different name. I believe it used to be called the Susanville California Stake.

John Pack Lambert said...

On the other hand, maybe I am wrong on that. The link provided shows it as Quincy California Stake formed in 1979.

Eduardo said...

Whoops! "For profit". Pardon the feax paus. Spelling...

coachodeeps said...

"For prophet endeavors" is just awesome here!!! ;)

Mark A. Holloman said...

It has always been the Quincy California Stake. It used to be part of the Reno NV North Stake before it was created.

Eduardo said...

Coachodeeps: glad you took pleasure from my mistake, "for prophet" versus "for profit".
There are always plenty of detractors, critics, pundits, naysayers, and opponents of the mere notion that there is a divinely directed person or institution directed by God that might be about His Work. That God might actually care about and try to communicate with us. That He has chosen these leaders and that He cares about His standards of living to be lived by His children.
To find evidence of cheating and hypocrisy among such representatives is the aim of said critics and non-believers, which is their free privilige.
If they find true factual substance to their suspicions and accusations, then they feel justified and vindicated.
However, if in fact the opposite comes to light, that God did do these things, the prophets and institution were true, and the accusations against a greedy church like ours in Ghana a generation ago, came to reveal the opposite of the philanthopy cycle, what price should the accusers pay?
For prophet or for profit, the accusers or advocates should pay a price. Choose well where you spend your dollars and what you invest your blood and sweat into, is what I say.
Best of luck, some us tried to convince others of what we believe and claim to know.
Despite endless calumnies, God will make it clear in the end.

Ray said...

Eduardo, well put. "Detractors, critics, pundits, naysayers, and opponents" are all around us, yet the Lord's Church continues to thrive. They have their reward, which I daresay must be a Pyrrhic victory. The scriptures tell us "there must be opposition in all things." Sometimes that opposition is brutal, but like the refiner's fire it makes us stronger.

coachodeeps said...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseret.com/platform/amp/utah/2019/12/24/21036629/mormon-lds-logan-temple-break-in-police-respond-burglar

James Anderson said...

The vandal is in the slammer, charges include vandalism, burglary, and maybe a couple of things related. Damage was minimal, $5k, should be fixed today for regular hours Thursday.

Johnathan Reese Whiting said...

Just another thing to redo when they ultimately add Logan to the pioneer temple renovation list in the next few years.

Christopher Nicholson said...

So is the pathetic creep - sorry, I mean the "suspect" who "allegedly" did this going to be held accountable for the cost of repairs? I see no reason why my tithing should be used to cover his actions.

Eduardo said...

Good point Christopher. Our tithing funds should not have to cover other people's sins and misdoings.
However, we all make mistakes and perhaps this violater may learn the greater lesson...And grow from it?
As a kid two examples: I enjoyed swinging from the stage curtain off the stage at least two times in our multi-purpose room, gym. Not much later I learned that it was damaged/ripped and replaced, for a pretty penny. Maybe a couple thou? I don't know, this was around 1985. By 1989 maybe I had paid...1,000 in tithing? By 1999 probably 3-4 thousand? Point is, I might have ruined the curtain, and maybe years of tithes paid it back. But, I still owe the Lord and His Church no matter what I might use or misuse, expend or break, by fault or accident. I owe. I pay. It is for Him, and the principle is the thing. I tithe, and all are blessed.

Eduardo said...

Second case: around 1986 I broke a light fixture glass cover in the Scout room. Because the model was outdated, I ended up paying for all four in the room. To replace each one for uniformity. I paid like 168 bucks, maybe, out of pocket for restitution. Not tithing or special donation(although maybe we delivered it like that, in a separate fund).
For me these were lessons learned.
Don't fool around or be callous at church.
Restore damage that you have caused.
Pay tithing and be grateful for our material belongings and shared properties.
Always be spiritually and financially endebted to the Lord.
Fire insurance in Doct. and Cov. 68 is real.
Pay it and be happy. And safe.

Eduardo said...

*Indebted. We always owe Him. He covers EVERYTHING. Even foolish BYU football losses.

James said...

Hello again, everyone! As far as the whistleblower's alleged claim of wrongdoing by the Church, the important thing to remember is that, in return for his having sounded the alarm, he is seeking to claim as a reward a poreytion of whatever the IRS may collect from the Church if they penalize the Church based on the outcome of the desired investigation. The Savior said it best, "By their fruits ye shall know them." The Church has provided ample evidence to support their assertion that there is no merit to these allegations. And as I mentioned on my blog when this issue originally surfaced, based on the assertions given annually in the Church Auditing Department Report, that department works independently of all Church-owned entitites, having those among their number who are Church members, friends of other faiths, etc. and I would not be shocked to learn that at least one person working for that department has connections to someone else who works for the IRS, just to ensure that everything remains above board and beyond reproach.

As far as the man who vandalized the Logan Utah Temple, I am frankly not shocked he is a repeat offender who can't get an LDS girl to date him and who is prohibited from being able to see his children. Given that this is his third or fourth offense, and the second in which he specifically targeted that temple, I have no doubt he will be put away in jail for quite a while, and probably sentenced to court-mandated anger management and mental health treatment. It will be interesting to see if and how this development impacts the timing of the renovation for this particular temple. I assume that will depend on a variety of yet-to-be-determined factors.

Speaking personally, I am anticipating the announcement of at least one or two other temple developments prior to the end of this year, along with one or two other developments after the first of the year. Regardless of what happens there, I am glad to see that the Church News and the official Newsroom have begun providing summaries of coverage of important milestones the Church has observed this year. Also, thanks to Matt as always for his ongoing outstanding reports.

Eduardo said...

Merry Christmas and congratulations to all the progressive Church growth this year. Fabulous temple announcements, new stakes, districts, units, missionaries serving and converts baptized. And aid rendered, as always.

James Anderson said...

They said he had gone through anger management in one of the other cases. Regardless, he is looking at a couple years in prison for this due to the burglary charge.

But Christmas Day in jail has to have him wondering, no jingle bells, just the noises that give jails and prison the nickname 'slammer' or 'clink'/

coachodeeps said...

I doubt the incident at the Logan Temple impacts the timing of the closure for renovation of that temple. The articles all indicated cleanup would be fairly quick and impact minimal. Merry Christmas to all!

Ray said...

As I recall, someone convicted of committing this kind of vandalism is required to pay "restitution" to cover the expense of the repairs. Is anyone able to confirm this?

John Pack Lambert said...

The problem is that fixing $5000 in damages will cost more than that. Recovering thexfunds m.h may be hard. This is an amount that can be covered from interest earnings of tithing.

John Pack Lambert said...

$5000 is very little damage overall to a building the size of the Logan Temple. I TV sounded mainly like ruining a few wall pictures, smashing a glass door and plunging an ax in the wall. All can be easily replaced. Luckily there was no fire. That would have caused layers of damage.

Just out of curiosity are there any estimates on the cost of the renovation of the Salt Lake Temple.

Whizzbang said...

The Toronto Temple is still under utilized and it's difficult to get to, which hampers accessibility.

Historia Familiar Valenzuela Escobar said...

Lo que sucedió en este Templo, será que ha sucedido en otros ?

Yo pensaba que los templos contaban con cámaras de seguridad, sensores y guardias, o me equivoco al respecto.

En Santiago de Chile, Hay un guardia pero no dé si está toda la noche.

Esto no es profanar el templo ? Se tiene que volver a dedicar ? Qué se hace allí ?

Historia Familiar Valenzuela Escobar said...

Wizzibang

Yo pensaba que un país que tiene varios templos construidos (CANADÁ) y otro en proceso, estaría más utilizado en su capacidad.

Las distancias o accesibilidad hacen más difícil las visitas al templo, y también creo yo, que es el no tener como meta asistir, no contar con tiempo o no tener dinero.

Ojalá llegué el día que todos los templos del mundo están llenos a toda hora y no solo algunos días.

En el caso de mi país Chile, ha pasado por períodos con muy poca o baja asistencia, por lo general, siempre hay más mujeres que hombres.

Historia Familiar Valenzuela Escobar said...

Eduardo

Este Blog y el de James me parecen súper completos con respeto a los avances y retrocesos en la iglesia mundial, las páginas oficiales de la Iglesia informan generalidades, acá siento que uno puede aprender más de los desafíos de los barrios, estacas, bautizados, templos, anuncios, entre otras cosas

Me encanta ver la fortaleza que existe al crear una nueva estaca o dividirla, al contrario de lo que sucede en Chile, qué a DECRECIDO y pasará mucho tiempo antes que se hagan nuevas estacas.

Ojalá los anuncios de templos también sean para los fieles y pocos SUD qué hay en mi largo y angosto Chile, porque se necesitan más templos y que la iglesia se siga fortaleciendo.

coachodeeps said...

Seems this just happened in the entrance area and hallways, so no remain would really be needed. Speed by to see the progress at the Pocatello Idaho Temple. Spire steel framing is complete. Looks like there is a cross at the top (it is that way for stability and strength). Perry area, wil be a gorgeous temple.

coachodeeps said...

*Pretty area

Whizzbang said...

Sadly, I don't speak Spanish! !! So I can't respond Valenzuela Escobar comment

Christopher Duerig said...

Whizzbang,

Here is a Google Translate app, translation of the Spanish language post made by : Historia Familiar Valenzuela Escobar :

"Eduardo

This blog and James's seem super complete to me with respect to the advances and setbacks in the world church, the official pages of the Church inform generalities, here I feel that one can learn more about the challenges of the neighborhoods, stakes, baptized, temples , announcements, among other things

I love to see the strength that exists when creating a new stake or dividing it, contrary to what happens in Chile, what to DECREASED and it will be a long time before new stakes are made.

Hopefully the announcements of temples are also for the faithful and few LDS what is in my long and narrow Chile, because more temples are needed and that the church continues to strengthen."

Christopher Duerig said...

And here is the Google Translate translation for the question he gave you :

"Wizzibang

I thought that a country that has several built temples (CANADA) and another in process, would be more used in its capacity.

The distances or accessibility make visits to the temple more difficult, and I also believe that it is not having the goal of attending, not having time or not having money.

I wish the day arrived that all the temples in the world are full at all times and not just a few days.

In the case of my country Chile, it has gone through periods with very little or low attendance, usually there are always more women than men."

Anonymous said...

One of my goals for 2020 is to fully align with President Nelson’s requests surrounding the name of the Church. It’s been long enough since his first request that I think it’s okay to more explicitly encourage others to do the same (but of course in the patient way that President Nelson suggested). What do you guys think? There are still alot of websites with Latter-day Saints as the only or primary audience that haven’t changed their language. If they don’t change soon, will they ever? I’m far from perfect, but isn’t this an opportunity to actually “follow” our prophet and act on our belief that seemingly small things often bring to pass that which is great?

John Pack Lambert said...

The word translated as neighborhoods in the above was barrios. That should in context be translated wards.

John Pack Lambert said...

The think with temple utilization levels is that there are lots of people so far from the temple that they can only make it there a few times a year. Thus a temple in Torreon or somewhere in that grneral area would not much reduce the attendance level at the Mexico City Temple. Nor would a temple in Morgan or Park City or Price or Hurricane or Heber City much reduce attendance at any existing temple.

An Elko Temple's likelyhood is not actually impacted much by Tooelle getting a temple.

Christopher Duerig said...

Posted today on Church Newsroom site:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/car-accident-claims-life-of-senior-missionary

MainTour said...

"TheChurchOfJesusChristofLatter-daySaintsGrowthBlog.blogspot.com"

James said...

While I respect the opinions voiced here about utilizing the full name of the Church in principle, in practice, things are a little more nuanced than that. For this website, the likely reason that there has been no transition in the name of the blog is probably two- or three-fold: first of all, there's a need to ensure that the URL the site is to be transferred to is available. Secondly, each individual page would need to be migrated to a new URL, which would take time and probably necessitate taking it down for a while to accomplish that process fully, which would not be ideal. But third, and perhaps most importantly, maybe a change in the URL is not actually necessary for this blog.

That last one deserves a bit more of an explanation. So here it is: As some of you probably recall, when the new manual of style and updseated guidelines were released, the updated material noted it applied specifically as a request for the media. This is not a media-sponsored website, but a privately-funded one. As such, it may be unreasonable to suggest it needs to follow the request that was specifically made in relation to the way online and broadcast media refer to the Church. Secondly, in conjunction with the requested change, Matt updated the header of this blog, so that the first reference anyone sees is in the header, which shows the words: "Growth of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church)", which to me seems to be appropriately compliant with those guidelines to the reasonable extent it can be.

But my final point on this is that I am not personally comfortable asserting that the guidelines should be applied the same way in such settings. With the request applying specifically to the media, a website operated by a single individual or group is largely given the prerogative on how, in what manner, and to what extent to follow those guidelines, if they opt to do so at all. The current URL has name recognition through Google searches and in-website searches, all of which would have to be redirected or otherwise updated if this website were to change. And speaking personally, if Matt is in the process of considering a relocation for this website or has determined that is not necessary or wise for his purposes, I'd hate to be the one to assert he ought to do otherwise. His website, his call.

James said...

I have something else I want to mention here: one or two individuals who comment on this blog have previously complained about Wikipedia's seeming lack of compliance with the request and style guidelines as well. But in the case of Wikipedia, as I have mentioned previously, the Manual of Style for articles about the Church is markedly different than the guidelines released by the Church. And in that particular case, it is because not enough people are getting actively involved in trying to work towards changing such guidelines. It has been well said, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." So for anyone concerned about the way in Which the English Wikipedia is and is not currently complying with the guidelines released by the Church (with that entity also likely not being subject to the same request, given that it is an online encyclopedia and not a media outlet), then I'd suggest that such individuals need to jump on-board at Wikipedia to fix whatever they feel may be broken about that manual of style. But in any case, I think it would be a more common-sense approach to recognize that personal or organizational blogs or websites (like this one and Wikipedia) may not be as fully subject to a need to comply with those updated guidelines and President Nelson's request, which was, insofar as I am aware, only meant to be applicable to news organizations, entities, and websites. Anything outside that particular umbrella should largely be free to do what is best for them and for their readers, and in that respect, I personally feel this site does not need to so change. Will I support Matt if he decides to make such a change? Of course, but it's not going to break my heart, end my world, or make me lose sleep if the current URL for this site remains the status quo, nor would I have a problem if Wikipedia keeps their current styles, but that side of things is a discussion that is better had on Wikipedia itself rather than here. Again, this is no more and no less than my own opinion here, based on what I have read about the request and the style guide, and anyone is free to disagree with me as they will in that respect. Either way, I am grateful to Matt for the work he does to keep us all informed of Church growth developments here, and whether the website URL changes or not, I am grateful we can rely on his continuing reports in that respect. I leave this for all of us to reflect upon, consider, and dialogue further about as you may choose to do so.

James said...

Another quick comment here, if I may offer it. And although I am making it in response to Omar's comment above, I will be doing so in English this time. Omar, thank you for the kind words you offered in relation to the content on my blog and on Matt's blog. When it comes to matters covered on this blog, the resources available to Matt are far more expansive than anything I have available to me. But even though Matt's focus and mine are markedly different, the overarching purpose of the content is the same: to provide uplifting, inspiring, and accurate information in both settings, and to enable discussions on such topics to add to a positive perspective on such developments. As we have seen in recent days, there are many who may try to put a negative or false spin on things the Church is doing, whether in actuality or allegedly, but I see such reports as a fulfillment of the Lord's indication that there would be both good and evil spoken of in relation to the Church, its' leaders, and the mode and manner in which the gospel is established and spread worldwide. So positive opinions are needed no more than ever on such developments. And the reality of it is that most of the negative stuff is based on inaccurate or false information, and sometimes the most blatant lies. So having such resources as Matt's blog or mine hopefully helps to put such developments into their proper perspective. Thanks, Omar, for your comments in relation to that.

John Pack Lambert said...

Wikipedia should respect the determinations of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on proper style. I still think Tad Walch's article on how representatives of the NAACP fully and gladly complied with saying the full name of the restored Church of Jesus Christ was a very good read.

The fact that Wikupedia has still not renamed the article on the Tabarnacle Choir at Temple Square but it renames university articles immediately after name changes is telling.

James said...

JPL, in both cases you mentioned, a couple of elements apply: First, as I have noted repeatedly on this blog and Wikipedia, the guidelines in question are for media outlets, which does not fit the description of Wikipedia. And aside from that, until common usage changes in the sources that are cited under Wikipedia's reliable sources policies (which includes sources outside the umbrella of Church-sponsored or owned resources), the common names used in such places need to apply. And in either case, I also stand by my point that complaining about that particular matter in settings such as this will not do nearly as much good as getting people involved in the discussions on Wikipedia's relevant pages that will have actual bearing on and relevance to what happens there. So my point stands that people need to be contributing to the solution, or else they will remain part of the problem. So I might suggest (with all due respect) that your time would be far better spent encouraging people to be part of those discussions than it would be to use such platforms as comments here to whine about the seeming unfairness of the way in which Wikipedia has and has not complied with that request, which, again, was intended primarily for press and media outlets and not every reference to the Church everywhere. Of course, if you want to carry on complaining about the issues rather than encouraging people to be part of solving them, that's your prerogative as well. Either way, my point was that personal or organizational blogs or websites that do not qualify as mainstream media outlets, or online encyclopedias that have their own stylistic guidelines in relation to articles about the Church are not subject to following the guidelines issued under President Nelson's inspiration, because they were meant specifically for media sources. I was personally pleased that Rick Satterfield chose to change his site URL, but he was under no obligation under those guidelines to do so, and the same is true for Matt's blog here, the "This Week in Mormons" website, and all online encyclopedias, including Wikipedia. And a careful review of those guidelines will confirm that. But the old saying is also true, "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink." For me, that's more than enough said on this.

St George Bob said...

Is there a reason why it is so difficult to locate a list of stakes in the Church? You can find wards, temples, missions but it's nearly impossible to find an up to date list of stakes.

Ray said...

St George Bob, I think the easiest way to assemble an up-to-date list of stakes is to go to the 2013 Deseret News Church Almanac for the stakes up to that point, and then Matt in this blog shows the new stakes created (and discontinued) every year going back to 2006, so you can bring the list current by filling in the new stakes since 2013. One caveat is that there have been several name changes, but you can find the current names on the Church's map site.

Johnathan Reese Whiting said...

Me encanta que hemos empezado comunicación bilingue en los comentarios en este blog. Bienvenidos a todos de habla hispana (y a los gabachos también). XD

I'm tickled pink that we've started having bilingual conversations in the threads here. A big welcome to all Spanish-speakers (and to los gringos, also). :P

Johnathan Reese Whiting said...

Also, it looks like we'll have 80 new stakes/districts as our total for this year (minus the 12 stakes/districts discontinued = 68 net). Not too shabby.

Beats last year's gross of 70 - 22 for 48 net.

2019: 80 - 12 = 68
2018: 70 - 22 = 48
2017: 104 - 12 = 92
2016: 130 - 16 = 114
2015: 99 - 20 = 79
2014: 83 - 13 = 70
2013: 57 - 17 = 60
2012: 77 - 18 = 59
2011: 78 - 24 = 54

Christopher Duerig said...

St George Bob, Here is a retrieved list I had updated in Wikipedia, organized by Continent, Country, State/Province (or equivalent), up to 26 Dec 2018, when it was deleted from Wikipedia, as being not relevant to common society.

https://web.archive.org/web/20181226110531/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stakes_of_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints

If you go back about a month prior (November 2018), in archived copies, you will see also attached each link to the Classic Maps site Stake Center addresses. To quickly find each stake on the Church map. Also on Classic Maps, if you logon using your LDS Account. You will see the Stake, Ward, Mission and Area Boundaries marked. Only thing that is missing is the assigned Temple Districts boundaries.

I hope this is useful to your research. Also as Ray suggested, you can compare my list to the 2013 Deseret News Church Almanac and here Matt's list on the main page of this blog since that date, to add the missing Stakes since 12/26/2018.