I wonder if the shrinking Church presence in California will be saved, somewhat, by Hispanic outreach. I wonder if Hispanics are statistically less likely to emigrate. It would be cool to see a demographic shift over the next few decades to a largely Spanish-speaking church in some parts of the United States.
All depends on immigration. Immigration is already off it's peak from the mid-2000's, and at least anecdotally most of them would rather attend English wards than stay in Spanish ones once their kids hit middle school. We've had a couple families voluntarily leave the Spanish wards because they think the English ones are run better, but sometimes get recruited back in when they don't have enough Priesthood. I would guess most of the 2nd generation won't attend Spanish wards unless they are recruited back in.
When I was at BYU almost 20 years ago I knew a young woman whose parents were immigrants from Mexico whose family had chosen to go to an English-speaking unit in the San Gabriel valley when she was in her teens.
California has had Spanish outreach so long I am not sure it can be increased much. I know 20 years ago in Pleasanton there was a set of Spanish-speaking sister missionaries assigned but it didnt lead to creating a Spanish-speaking unit.
At the same time I have known enough Hispanis who left California due to high crime that I can assure you the issues here are complex.
It appears Laramie Wyoming now has 2 Spanish-speaking branches. I wonder if we will see more Spanish-speaking units in Michigan. There is only 1 but there is another officially bilingual and Lansing used to have one. Pontiac on the northern fringe of metro Detroit has lots of Hispanis, when I was in Mexico I met a man who had worked in a factory there. The stake president in that stake is named Sanchez but I am not even sure he speaks Spanish, his wife is a blonde haired white woman.
Michigan has lots of Hispanis whose families came in the 1920s, many of mixed Polish or Irish ancestry these days, and then even more Hispanis who came after 1990, with the most recent pst 2015 wave now being more from the Dominican Republic and Central America. Still Mexicans are the most numerous followed by Puerto Ricans.
Laramie is home to U. of Wyoming, something there may be at play with the Spanish units to have two there given the area being smaller than some of the other Wyoming locations
I think for the most part is for the majortiy of church families, who rely on one income and have large number of children cannot afford the costs to live in major cities like New York or California. Large numbers of LDS families will inadvertently revert to places where it is more affordable to raise a family. The only way more people will fill that gap is greater productivity in missionary work, receptivity and reactivation
Well, while Utah is certainly not as expensive as much of California, it is also not a place that I would consider as cheap to live, not anymore. Families that rely on one income are a dying breed and have been for decades now.
Son tantos los factores que juegan a favor o en contra en el crecimiento o estancamiento en la Iglesia, siento que la Iglesia pese al programa de ayuno o de almacén del Obispo, o de colegios, No logra entender la importancia de cuidar y valorar a sus miembros, lo que no parece.
La iglesia de Jesucristo somos nosotros. Si bien la Iglesia "no cuida o valora" a sus propios miembros, somos los sacerdotes, ministros visitantes, y todos los participantes que nos hace falta servir y cuidar. De acuerdo con los numerosos factores que juegan.
Hablo desde mi experiencia, fue lo que yo viví y vi desde julio 1990 hasta el 2014 aproximadamente, serví misión y tuve llamamientos como todo miembro fiel.
O sea que en tu experiencia los lideres eclesiasticos te faltaron por falta de apoyo financiero o espiritual? Por falta de no poner suficiente calefaccion en las capillas heladas en el invierno, o en otras formas? Tenias obispos chuecos que hurtaron los diezmos y ofrendas? Por favor da un solo ejemplo sin accusaciones generales y sin comprobar ni sugerir nada.
That is the one. Lansing used to have one but it was disbanded, and south-west Detroit has a bilingual branch. There also apparently at one point was a Spanish group in Macomb county northeast of Detroit. I am a little surprised Saginaw never had one.
Pocatello temple update in the news. https://www.kpvi.com/news/local_news/pocatello-lds-temple-making-serious-headway/article_dddeeed4-9f7c-11e9-b5d3-4f29e972e62e.html
Just an idea, the old "Huaral Perú District (organized from 2011-2013), could be reinstated (???).
Currently the Huaral Perú Branch (303690), Chancay Branch (292575) are not assigned to any neighbor Stakes or Districts. And could be combined with the Villas de Ancón Branch (2137682) from the Lima Perú Puente Piedra Stake.
Both Huaral and Chancay Branches are currently assigned to the Peru Lima West Mission.
A new Ward was created in the Los Alpes Cartagena stake. And another ward was divided in Medellin from the Itagui ward. Attendance in said wards before division was about 250. Great news
Does anyone have the website link for where they post the update changes with stakes and wards etc. Someone seems to have a provide a link recently to another website where they are updating the changes with wards and branches. It uses to be on LDS Temples website before it was taken down.
Jonathan Whiting, I am not Henry Ponneftz, but Cartegena and Medellin are two cities in Colombia. I can confirm that because, as I continue to work on revisions to my list of potential cities for which a temple may be announced in October, Medellin is one city I have studied extensively as a prospective location for the next Colombian temple (along with Cali), That can be verified by the following listings for Colombia's two temples:
That said, I know that there are some identical city names not tied to the area of the world in which they are most commonly used. I seem to recall hearing that one of the states in the US has cities named for many of the world's top capital cities. So I suppose it is not out of the question that Cartegena and Medellin could also be names of cities outside of Colombia, but my guess is the individual in question is referring to Colombia. Hope that helps.
I was wondering if the cities in question were somewhere in South America, as I know some of the South American countries have borrowed Spanish city names: Córdoba, Valencia, etc.
I don't know which state you're referring to, but Kentucky has a London and a Paris.
Northern New York where I grew up has Canton, Potsdam, Madrid (pronounced MAD-rid), Lisbon, Stockholm, and Massena which I presume is after Messina. All of them, last I checked, are under 20,000 people.
Maine also has a bunch of towns named after foreign capitals and countries. Oxford county in the western part of the state has Denmark, Norway, West and South Paris, Mexico, and East and West Peru and is not far away from Naples and Poland. Elsewhere in the state there are towns called Rome, Vienna, Belgrade, Athens, Moscow, Lebanon, Limerick (not a capital, but still a foreign town name), Dresden, Palermo, Lisbon, China, Canaan, East Corinth, Belfast, Orient and New Sweden. I may have missed some, this is just a list culled from an atlas. Somewhere I have seen a picture of a road sign specifically listing several of these towns.
Jonathan Whiting, you are most welcome. Glad I could help. I don't claim to know everything, but I do have a knack for being able to know how to track down information fairly quickly in research I do. I also have a varying degree of auditory recall, and for remembering quite a bit of what I read online and in print. So on questions like that, if I don't have or know an answer to such questions, I can usually find one in fairly short order.
As to naming conventions anywhere, it has always fascinated me in various ways and at sundry times how the names of some cities are determined, and particularly the names of newly-organized or renamed Church units. I was especially intrigued therefore to find out that the temple announced for Yuba City has been renamed the Feather River California Temple, and I have been anxiously awaiting for word on the name of the second temple in Manila Philippines.
My thanks to all of you who helped refresh my memory on the question of which states had cities named for a major national capital city. It could have been Kentucky, New York, or Maine that I was thinking of. I may have to track down what it was I read that referred to the state in question. Whenever I got it from, it was more obscure.
Even though the Church is now more than a week into the annual July recess for the General Authorities, one significant thing that has been announced within the last week or so: the Instructions for Curriculum for 2020 have been released:
As was the case last year, the release of those instructions has occurred one or two months earlier than it traditionally did during President Monson's prophetic adminstration, which to me is another manifestation of how President Nelson seems to be well ahead of the curve. Unique to this year's instructions is the first-time release of a web and print version of the guidelines set by the Church for the Elders' Quorum and Relief Soceity second- and fourth-Sunday lessons, which will focus on General Conference talks. Previously, that resource had only been available in print and electronically as a page in the May 2019 Ensign.
You can find that particular resource at the following web address:
It is also worth mentioning that the Hong Kong China Temple closed for its' 2-3 year renovation process yesterday, with one objective being to repurpose space previously used for Sunday worship and administrative offices (which have been relocated to an adjacent facility) back into temple space.
And finally, within the last week, both Presidents Russell M. Nelson and Dallin H. Oaks have observed milestones in terms of their respective tenures as Church President and President of the Quorum of the Twelve among others who have served in those assignments, and President Nelson has also moved up on the list of Church Presidents by their ages. I have more details on those observed milestones on my blog as well.
In the meantime, my thanks again to you all for helping to contribute to my understanding of and knowledge regarding subjects covered in these threads, and to you as well, Matt, for your continued excellent work reporting Church growth developments.
There are also two Maine towns I lived in myself that were named after- but pronounced differently from- cities in France, Lille and Calais. (The latter, actually an incorporated city and the place where I attended high school, is pronounced like a callus you get on your foot.)
My buddy grew up in a town called "Mexico," New York.
Also, Kentucky has a town called "Versailles," - though it's not pronounced like the French way, "Ver-sigh," but the way you'd expect it to be pronounced in Kentucky: "Ver-sales."
Hey, everyone, thanks for this information! Some would call it "trivia," but it gives us some diversion from our normal daily fare. I grew up near Moscow, ID, and enjoyed reading the "Daily Idahonian" published there.
And as to the alternative pronunciation of "Versailles" in the US, I'm reminded of the Ohio town named Lima, but pronounced "Lie-ma," not how it's pronounced in Spanish in the Peru capital.
A new stake will be created in the Philippines this coming September 1. Iba Philippines Stake will be reorganized from a district. Not sure if this is the missing 113th stake or the 115th one. This is either the 7th or 8th stake to be organized in the Philippines this year.
Just talked to a member in the Philippines. While I served in 2010 the Hinigaran ward (in the Binalbagan stake) started up a group located between them and the Isabella ward in Candumarao. We had around 30 people show up to the first sacrament meeting but I lost touch after being transferred the following week. I guess back in March the group matured into a branch and often has 100 members in attendance. They don't attend any meetinghouse as they are too remote from either of the cities, but good to hear that there is still successful planting efforts coming to fruition.
What ten countries will add the most members this year? 2019. My off hand guesses: 1. United States 2. Brazil 3. Mexico 4. Phillipines 5. Nigeria 6. Congo (DRC) 7. Ivory Coast 8. Ghana 9. Colombia 10. Peru
Any other guesses?
Fastest growing nations: Rwanda, Uganda, Vietnam... West and central Africa are doing really well. East Africa is doing better. Maybe India is picking up momentum, too. China's freedom situation must change. It will.
While I couldn't begin to guess which nations will have the highest growth rates this year, I'd imagine Brazil, all other South American nations, pretty much the entire African continent, and the Philippines will continue to see significant growth. And while it may be a bit longer before we know for sure, if the stagnant growth conditions in the US continue to improve, then North America may again become a strong-hold for the Church.
Conversely, there are areas of severe struggle where the challenges faced by Latter-day Saints trying to live their faith are in some ways insurmountable. Within the last year or two, we have seen a Utah RM unjustly incarcerated in Venezuela, and from what I can tell, Venezuela is having severe political issues above and beyond that particular example. I know that there are corruprt leaders in Russia, North Korea, Bulgaria, and other areas whose leadership (or lack of sufficient moral character as political leaders) poses challenges to Church growth as well. To a certain degree, even here in the US, the focus is more on partisan politics and an abandonment of sufficient moral character in so many in either governmental positions or other roles who use their power/influence in all the wrong ways, for all the wrong reasons, with all the wrong motivations. Such individuals surely also lack sufficient moral strength to make the right kind of difference in their roles as those elected or appointed to lead.
Therre is increasing evidence today that various world areas are in turmoil, a defiinitive sign of the times. But how blessed we are to also be witnessing a season of unprecedented developments throughout the Church. The Lord reminds us that, "by small and simple things are great things brought to pass", which is something we see in abundance in our day and time. And I am convinced that when the time is right, the Lord will open doors that are now currently closed to the Church, that people of good character will be called upon to lead where others of lesser ooral fibre have failed to do so, and where the best things are still in store for the Church as a whole, and for individuals, families, and congregational groups.
Not sure if that addresses your question, Eduardo, but these are the thoughts that came to my mind as I read and put together this response to you. Either way, there is increasingly more evidence as to why President Nelson described the Rome Italy Temple dedication as a "hinge-point" in the history of the Church. I can't wait to see what's next in that respect.
My home state of Indiana has plenty of exotic towns and villages. Some have Church of Jesus Christ presence, others do not. Versailles [Vur-sails] should have a unit. Milan [my-lan, rhymes with "pan", like pot] should have one, but maybe not. That is where the real life "Hoosiers" b-ball team upset Crispus Attacks back around 1953 or 1954. Movie with Gene Hackman around 1987, but fictionalized, with some real towns included. Peru has a unit, I know at least one RM from there. China and Buddhha do not. Some pro-Tibetans based in Bloomington hike between them to prove a point. Free Tibet! Wow, like the U.S. will lose Alaska... We have a branch in English. Not French Lick (home of Larry Bird). My wife has friends from Lebanon. What else? I think there is a Mexico. And Hindustan not far from Bloomington. Paris, Illinois used to be a branch in Bloomington Stake, as was the Brazil Branch, now defunct. I may think of some more later...
FYI, beginning July 23rd, the Manhattan NY Temple is closing until October 28th for maintenance work. That will leave one temple open from NC to CT. The Philadelphia temple is going to be very busy!!! Of course most in NC go to Columbia SC but from VA to CT Philadelphia is your closest choice. I imagine Boston will take some of the CT people.
I would imagine they would be added to the Alajuela Stake, since it appears to be the closest Stake. Alternately, it could be added to the Liberia Stake, but that's a bit further away.
Don't forget that Hartford has a temple and will probably be closer for some of the members in the New York area. Also, the re-opening of the Raleigh temple in mid-October will reduce the drive for the VA members, who currently have their two closest temples both closed.
Fortnite Flex: Within the first two months of this year, I compiled a list of temples that would be closed for an extended period of time later this year. Insofar as I can tell, the temple in Palmyra New York will be open during the time the Manhattan Temple is closed, with the exception of a couple of weeks between September 9 and 21, when Palmyra has its' semiannual customery closure for cleaning.
And by the time the Manhattan Temple reopens, the Raleigh Temple will have been operating again for around 1.5-2 weeks. FWIW, that's what some quick double-checks of my available resources showed. Hope this information is helpful to you and all others in the affected areas you described.
In the meantime, the Tabernacle Choir is gearing up to celebrate the 90th anniversary of its' continuous weekly radio and television broadcast, which will be marked with a special edition of Music and the Spoken Word tomorrow. The day of that broadcast will also coincide with President Nelson's prophetic administration hitting the 1.5 year mark. I took some time earlier today to provide some perspective on both developments, which you can read more about on my blog at the following web address:
My thanks again to Matt for continuing to allow me to share such updates, and to all of you for the illuminating and inpsiring contributions you make to my understanding of the many topics discussed on these threads. Also, Matt, just by way of a housekeeping note: I appreciate the need for safeguards in the commenting provisions for the blog here. Left unchecked, there would be some who would use a forum like this to criticize, belittle, demean, or degrade others. But one problem with the verification system as it is, especially for someone like me with visual perception issues, is that those issues generally present obstacles with such verification. I will work around it as best I can if there is no other choice, just wanted to provide that feedback to you, FWIW.
Orson Scott Card wrote of the Salt Lake Temple underwater. Are you predicting all the California temples will do likewise? They just millenium-proofed the Oakland temple, and it is high up on a ridge overlooking the Bay.
Only way California would "sink" is if a large earthquake causes a massive shift of the Pacific and North American Plates. California is being torn apart very slowly. Most of California rests on the North American Plate, which is steadily moving southeast, while a good chunk of coastal California is on the Pacific Plate, which is making its way northwest. Most of the Coachella and Imperial Valleys are below sea level (where the Salton Sea is), and if anything were to happen to the Colorado River delta, these valleys would flood, and would greatly affect the 2 Mexicali Stakes, the El Centro Stake, and part of the Palm Desert Stake. Indio would become the new north shore of the Gulf of California.
>Tijuana Mexico Temple (Pacific Plate) - San Luis Rio Colorado Stake is on the North American Plate. >San Diego California Temple (Pacific Plate) - Yuma Stake is on the North American Plate >Newport Beach California Temple (Pacific Plate) - has no assigned stakes on the North American Plate >Redlands California Temple (Pacific Plate) - Yucca Valley, Apple Valley, Victorville, and Hesperia Stakes on the North American Plate. >Los Angeles California Temple (Pacific Plate) - Ridgecrest, Palmdale, Lancaster (2), and Bakersfield (3) Stakes on the North American Plate. >Oakland California Temple (North American Plate) - Monterey, Santa Cruz, and San Mateo Stakes on the Pacific Plate.
Can we show some California love? Let's have faith that California and the Church in California will continue to grow and flourish. Sure we may have some headwinds at the moment with some members leaving the state, but that doesn't mean one earthquake in the High Desert in between of Las Vegas and Los Angeles, spells the end of times of California.
I'm aware that my "doomsday" scenario is extremely unlikely to happen, but California will split apart naturally over hundreds, perhaps thousands of years. It's pretty likely the Millennium will happen before that time (but none of us will know when). It's pretty doubtful that California will literally be destroyed.
I have very fond memories of California, primarily going to Disneyland nearly every other year for over almost 10 years (before my mom had her stroke). I also served my mission and met some truly wonderful people there (though sadly, a lot of them have moved away from California, though most still remain).
My first time in California, we visited the redwoods, but I was too young to remember it because I was about five. In May, we took a trip to Oregon to visit my grandparents, and we drove down to Crescent City, making it my second time there (first time actually remembering it).
A good chunk of my family history is in the Bay Area. My dad was born there, but my brother and I weren't. When my dad was young, they lived in Eureka when it got hit by a tsunami caused by the 1964 Alaska Quake, but he doesn't remember living there. 2 of my dad's cousins live in Sacramento (granted, the only 2 I've met), and a step-aunt that lives in Temecula.
My mom's family was stationed in Fort Ord in the early 70's, and a year after being baptized in Virginia, they were sealed together in the Oakland temple.
The Layton Temple will be 87k sq ft. The Bountiful Temple is 104k sq ft and the Ogden Temple is just over 112k sq ft. So, the Layton Temple will be about 20% smaller than either of those two.
It will be about the same size as Payson and Idaho Falls. The Payson Temple has 3 endowment rooms and 7 selling rooms. Idaho Falls is about the same size, too and it has 4 and 7. So, I think Layton will have about the same of number of those rooms.
I think it could look very similar (at least dimensionally) to the Payson because it will be about the same size, and on the same acreage and 3 stories.
I happened to catch the news about the Layton Utah Temple site identification as a result of KSL sending me a "Breaking News" alert from the section of their website focused on religious news. President Nelson continues to work on the queue from both ends. In addition to the Belem Brazil Temple groundbreaking, I believe we will see 2-4 other announced temples have a groundbreaking before the October General Conference takes place. And I think as many as 3 or 4 others could also have a groundbreaking between when General Conference concludes and the end of this year. President Nelson seems to be attacking the queue of announced temples from every angle. Only 1 temple announced in April 2016 remains in the "announced" queue, and that temple (Harare Zimbabwe) and the remaining 4 temples that were announced in April 2017 could be given priority during that time as well. I would not rule out a groundbreaking on Layton Utah, Richmond Virginia, and Auckland New Zealand before the end of this year, and if Bishop Davies is correct, then something will also likely be done about the Bengaluru India Temple before the end of this year as well.
Salta and Mendoza Argentina have sites confirmed already, and since the Church will be using the land held in reserve in Auckland New Zealand for the temple, the same is also likely true about the land held in reserve in Managua Nicaragua. That would leave only Cagayan de Oro Philippines and Russia as the temples annoounced in April 2018 for which more information is needed. Sites have been procured (but not confirmed) for the Phnom Penh Cambodia and newest California temple (which will apparently be called the Feather River California Temple).
I have also heard from a Church member living in Mexico that the site for the Puebla Mexico Temple has been procured, but I don't have details more specific than that. So that leaves Lagos Nigeria, Davao Philippines, and Washington County Utah as the temples announced in October 2018 for which more information is needed. And a probable location has been identified for the Antofagasta Chile Temple by Church members living in that city. So the odds are very good that action could be taken on several temples within the remaining 4.5 months of this year. And if that turns out to be the case, that would leave the temples announced during President Nelson's prophetic administration as the "oldest" such group.
With all of this in mind, based on what happens between now and the end of September, I could almost certainly see President Nelson announcing 14-18 temples in October. If, as I have also heard, the intent is to keep the backlog of announced temples between 30 and 35 (which I assume will provide Church leaders with sufficient motivation to act fast in continuing to clear the backlog), then there will likely be a series of unprecedented temple developments during the remainder of this year.
I have provided some more insight on all of this on my blog, which (with my thanks to Matt for allowing me to continue doing so) you can find at the following web address:
http://stokessoundsoff.blogspot.com
Also, within the last 12 hours or less, new information indicates that full-scale construction has begun or will shortly begin on the 3 temples which had a groundbreaking on May 4 (Yigo Guam, Praia Cabo Verde, and San Juan Puerto Rico), which leaves the Lima Peru Los Olivos Temple as the only other one for which full-scale construction is pending.
Hopefully all of this information is useful to many of you. I certainly look forward to seeing all that is ahead in relation to the temple construction program of the Church.
Also, apparently, the floor area as planned for the Layton Utah Temple is identical to the floor area provided for the Saratoga Springs Utah Temple, so there is another metric for comparison.
Sorry for all the additional comments, but I wanoted to note that it would not shock me in any way if, aside from differences which may exist due to the different cultural trends and natural settings in the areas surrounding the spots on which the Saratoga Springs and Layton Utah Temples will be built, the basic designs of both temples will either be practically similar or virtually identical.
My prediction for the Layton Temple groundbreaking: first quarter (Jan-Mar) of 2020. I'd like to take the Frontrunner up there and watch it. When the official date is announced of course
In my opinion, the temples in their dimensions and beauty has much to do with the committee that reviews and programs them in each country.
They are a reason for joy and blessings for faithful members who love to attend regularly, therefore they should be in every country where the Church is established. There is so much genealogical work to put "family search" up to date and bring those ordinances for all (as).
Today I took a Venezuelan friend to the temple block in Santiago de Chile and I got a beautiful surprise, about 100 brothers from the north of Chile "ANTOFAGASTA" where the temple that was announced in the general conference was going to be built, they were staying in the hostel to be able to do the sacred ordinances for their ancestors.
In the chapel that is next to the temple the young people were gathered, happy, the temple was beautiful and there was a lot of peace, they will be for several days in the temple.
They traveled by bus 18 hours and so it happens with many brothers from other countries who make sacrifices to be able to go regularly.
I was chatting with a Venezuelan brother on Facebook who says he's never been able to go to the temple because it's 8 hours away and too expensive to get to when most of his money goes to food for his family. Even if the Church announced another Venezuelan temple in the next conference, it probably wouldn't be dedicated for at least six years. It breaks my heart.
Bryan, FWIW, my personal estimate for the Layton Temple is for either late 2019 or early 2020. The timing thereof will largely depend on how quickly the Church may submit formal plans to the city and how quickly thereafter the plans are approved. I seem to recall seeing a statement from the mayor of Layton to the effect that once the Church submits the plans, the city government is ready to take swift and decisive action to approve them. Time may tell how long it will actually take, but I am cautiously optimistic that we may hear more about this temple before the end of this year.
Christopher, I had a few thoughts on your assessment of the timing within which a second Venezuelan Temple could be announced, if I may offer them. First of all, while the temple in Caracas was still under construct6ion, President Hinckley visited Maracaibo and publicly proposed a temple there, saying that it might be a while before that announcement was made, but that it would happen at some point based on the faithfulness of the members of the Church in that city.
Futher, as I have observed previously, some of the temples announced by Presidents Monson and Nelson include locations for which a temple was publicly proposed during the administrations of their prophetic predecessors. Additionally, last year, the announcement of temples in India and Russia occurred a decade or longer before many (myself included) would have thought possible as recently as 2-3 years ago. This to me suggests that we may need to adjust our thinking in terms of the imminent timing of the announcement of other temples for locations which seem like a more distant prospect or a long-shot.
Also, in May of this year, Bishop Dean M. Davies, First Counselor in the Presiding Bishopric, visited Saints in Bengaluru India. During that visit, he told them that the Church was hoping to release more information about the Bengaluru temple before the end of this year, particularly details about the location and design. So it is more likely than not that the Bengaluru Temple could have a groundbreaking within 2 years or less of its' announcement, another verification that our thinking needs to change about the time-frames and imminence of the announcement of future temple prospects.
Another quick note on the Bengaluru India Temple. In April of 2018, when President Nelson explained the circumstances surrounding the announcement of that temple, he mentioned that it is easier for the Church to construct a new temple anywhere in the world than it is to ensure that the Saints in the areas served by such temples are ready for them when they are built. He went on to admonish them, "You had better hurry [to prepare for the temple to be built in your midst]." So the fact that the temple could have a groundbreaking within less than 2 years after both the announcement thereof and President Nelson's admonition in that respect, the Saints surely took his counsel seriously, and will be sufficiently prepared for construction to begin, which should occur sometime next year. I was similarly surprised by Bishop Davies' statement that more details were due to be released about the temple before the end of this year.
The facts surrounding the Bengaluru India Temple aside, given that President Nelson has announced 27 new temples during his first 3 General Conferences as Church President, and given that more than a few of the announced locations are in nations that are experiencing great moral, spiritual, or political turmoil, places that have seemed to be more of a long-shot in the recent past, or even currently, could possibly be announced much sooner than any of us might expect. That is one of many reasons why I have included Maracaibo Venezuela as one of the prospective cities on my list of potential temple locations for the October 2019 General Conference.
Everything I have read and heard on my end lately indicates that out-of-the-box, unconventional thinking may be needed over the next decade and more when it comes to considering the most likely temple prospects, and how soon they may be announced. And using what patterns we can glean from the 27 locations in which temples have been announced since January of last year, coupled with a substantial amount of unconventional and nontraditional thinking and reasoning, may be the best way to anticipate the most likely locations which will go on to have a temple announced in October 2019.
And, quite frankly, since 27 temples being announced within the first 3 General Conferences of any new Church President is similarly unprecedented, to use traditional thinking may not serve us very well, especially if the trends and expectations relating to temple announcements continue to be shattered the way they have between the beginning of 2018 and now. So I would not rule out the odds that a second Venezuelan temple is not only on the horizon, but could be announced within the next 1-3 General Conferences, whether it is located in Maracaibo or elsewhere.
I apologize for my lengthy comment here, but wanted to provide some food for thought, for what it may be worth to any of you. Having extensively studied future temple presopects for around 4.5 years (if not longer than that), and based on all I continue to hear about what may be ahead for the temple construction program of the Church, the anticipation of unprecedented developments in that respect may require a generous amount of unprecedented thinking and reasoning. And because of that study, I stand by my feeling that 14-16 new temples may be announced in October, especially if more is done over the next 2.5 months to further clear the existing queue of announced temples. Hope these observations, such as they are, are helpful to all who read them.
Christopher Nicholson That is true, money is a problem to go to the temple when it is scarce as it is today in Venezuela and in more places in the world. With the face of life and despite all the faith and sacrifices they may have to go to the temples, the distances are long and if we add that they are families, it is even more difficult.
Dane, if I may ask, where did you find the information on the name change for that mission? I just ran a search for it and was redirected to information about the old name thereof. Thanks.
As mentioned above FSY conferences is coming to the US and Canada. With that change EFY is going away in its current format. Only EFY express and EFY at Palmyra and Nauvoo will happen each year.(see efy.byu.edu for specifics) This will be a great change for the youth and the young single adults who will be their counselors. The youth will bond and really find mentors in their same stake or nearby stakes that they can keep in contact with. I am excited to see this come to fruition in the next 3 years. The 200 plus stakes chosen for the pilot next year have been released. You can see if your stake is one of the chosen. https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/multimedia/file/16950-000-notice.pdf
This is biennial so it really starts in 2021 with half of the US and Canada hosting them and then in 2022 the other half hosting them. The November face to face will have more details about the FSY conferences.
Thank you for that, Chris. Depending on how recently the change in question occurred, it could be that the relevant websites haven't yet been updated to reflect tha.
For those who may be interested, tonight, I concluded my revision of the list of locations for which a temple seems most likely to be announced in October 2019. That latest list is now available for review and discussion on my blog, and can be found at the following web adcddress:
An open commenting period continues to be in effect on that list until Monday October 1, at which point I would need to put the finishing touches on it before the General Conference weekend. My thanks again to Matt for continuing to allow me to share such developments here, and to all of you for everything you continue to do to contribute to my understanding of all that is discussed here. Keep up the great work, everyone!
I love the FSY program idea! When I was 17, I was on the Stake Youth Committee that planned youth conference and we brought in 3 EFY speakers and they presented and did activities throughout the week. It was amazing. I still remember several of the activities and lessons. I love even more the idea of having the YSAs from the area as counselors! What a great way to get them involved and have a reason to be living the gospel! I hope this increases retention of both youth and young adult.
The announcement had 4 historic EFY places that will remain: Palmyra, Nauvoo, Independence, and Salt Lake. Express EFY sounded like it was separate from these historic places ones.
Also, these FSY events won't require the Stake or ward leaders to attend. That is unique and stress reducing for the adult leaders. I am in the Young Men organization locally and sinners are filled with planning, preparing and doing big activities such as camps and youth conferences on top of the usual weekly activities, Sunday meetings and coordinating meetings. This is a great move!
And it reminds the "elitist" feeling from EFY. The cost prohibited many from attending. These are well designed and structured events that really strengthen the youth! Super exciting!
I understand that BYU may host some of the FSY events in the Salt Lake metro, already having many of the needed facilities to pull the events off.
This also means no more EFY music albums, everyone got a free album from 1987 on, first tapes, then CDs, and lastly downloads. The music FSY will use is the annual Youth Theme Album, the theme should be announced about 1 August for next year, the album will go live in early December.
The album, however, will not include one or more hymn arrangements, a staple of EFY music until the last few years or so. Hymns are the most powerful Church music we have, and unlike the contemporary songs, if done right the arrangements can be sung in sacrament meeting too. The most famous of these arrangements is the 'EFY Medly' which has outlasted almost all of the now over 450 contemporary songs.
I am not sure why I cheered at this. I think because to me this was a hold on to the day when the Church was primarily white and white oriented. I try not to be bothered by my all white branch council in a branch where 75% or more and half the members are African American. I am so glad that President Nelson is speaking to the national convention of the NAACP. Also I am over joyed at Elder Peter M. Johnson's call as a general authority. Not only is Johnson African-American but as an early youth he was a local NYC rapper and a Muslim. Yet as an accounting professor he shows that African-Americans can achieve great things. His wife being white is also worth noting.
True Elder Sitati and Elder Dube are black, but they are not African-American. The Xhurch explodes in Congo, Ivory Coast and Nigeria but it is not clear we are making headway among African-Americans. My grandchildren are pretty much the only black children in primary in my branch. The one hope of strong multigenerational black families in my branch is Brother Jones, well at least the one growing most right now. He was baptized last month but his son, daughter and law and their 7 children have been active members for a while in a different branch. Since his baptism his son took him to the temple to do the baptism for Brother Jones late brother.
I like the FSY plan. Regional EFYs always seemed like after thoughts with the main focus on BYU. Also it will cut down on demands on youth leaders and allow to avoid burnout.
FSY has been held in Mexico for the last close to ten years, as well as in other countries. They were piloting it in my mission just as I was leaving it (2007).
Elder Uchtdorf posted about that last sacrament meeting in the German ward in Salt Lake that was discontinued after last week, saw onwe post on Facebook but he may have used Twitter and Instagram also.
This was one of the coolest things I learned about the NAACP/Church of Jesus Christ collaboration today:
"Rev. Brown said he presented Joseph Smith's abolitionist teachings with the students in the personal finance classes at his church. He taught them about the church's past, and how it lifted its former ban on priesthood ordinations and temple blessings for blacks. He considers the surprising collaboration an example."
I've also had the chance to visit the Redwoods and Crescent City, and I've got family history in the Bay Area, too: Monterrey (my Mother) and San Fran (my Grandmother) specifically. Also, I got to go to LA in college to visit the Los Angeles County Museum of Art (next to the La Brea Tar-pits) and the Geddy Museum.
102 comments:
I wonder if the shrinking Church presence in California will be saved, somewhat, by Hispanic outreach. I wonder if Hispanics are statistically less likely to emigrate. It would be cool to see a demographic shift over the next few decades to a largely Spanish-speaking church in some parts of the United States.
All depends on immigration. Immigration is already off it's peak from the mid-2000's, and at least anecdotally most of them would rather attend English wards than stay in Spanish ones once their kids hit middle school. We've had a couple families voluntarily leave the Spanish wards because they think the English ones are run better, but sometimes get recruited back in when they don't have enough Priesthood. I would guess most of the 2nd generation won't attend Spanish wards unless they are recruited back in.
When I was at BYU almost 20 years ago I knew a young woman whose parents were immigrants from Mexico whose family had chosen to go to an English-speaking unit in the San Gabriel valley when she was in her teens.
California has had Spanish outreach so long I am not sure it can be increased much. I know 20 years ago in Pleasanton there was a set of Spanish-speaking sister missionaries assigned but it didnt lead to creating a Spanish-speaking unit.
At the same time I have known enough Hispanis who left California due to high crime that I can assure you the issues here are complex.
On Classic Maps today, the Tarapoto Perú District upgraded to "Tarapoto Perú Stake".
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=-7.311106,-76.131974&z=8&m=google.road&q=Tarapoto%20Per%C3%BA%20Stake&find=stake:613010
As reported previously by Matt here.
It appears Laramie Wyoming now has 2 Spanish-speaking branches. I wonder if we will see more Spanish-speaking units in Michigan. There is only 1 but there is another officially bilingual and Lansing used to have one. Pontiac on the northern fringe of metro Detroit has lots of Hispanis, when I was in Mexico I met a man who had worked in a factory there. The stake president in that stake is named Sanchez but I am not even sure he speaks Spanish, his wife is a blonde haired white woman.
Michigan has lots of Hispanis whose families came in the 1920s, many of mixed Polish or Irish ancestry these days, and then even more Hispanis who came after 1990, with the most recent pst 2015 wave now being more from the Dominican Republic and Central America. Still Mexicans are the most numerous followed by Puerto Ricans.
John Pack Lambert We have a Spanish branch here in the Grand Rapids Stake. Is that the one you are talking about, or is there another one in MI?
Laramie is home to U. of Wyoming, something there may be at play with the Spanish units to have two there given the area being smaller than some of the other Wyoming locations
I think for the most part is for the majortiy of church families, who rely on one income and have large number of children cannot afford the costs to live in major cities like New York or California. Large numbers of LDS families will inadvertently revert to places where it is more affordable to raise a family. The only way more people will fill that gap is greater productivity in missionary work, receptivity and reactivation
Well, while Utah is certainly not as expensive as much of California, it is also not a place that I would consider as cheap to live, not anymore. Families that rely on one income are a dying breed and have been for decades now.
Son tantos los factores que juegan a favor o en contra en el crecimiento o estancamiento en la Iglesia, siento que la Iglesia pese al programa de ayuno o de almacén del Obispo, o de colegios, No logra entender la importancia de cuidar y valorar a sus miembros, lo que no parece.
Omar Valenzuela E
Chile-Santiago
La iglesia de Jesucristo somos nosotros. Si bien la Iglesia "no cuida o valora" a sus propios miembros, somos los sacerdotes, ministros visitantes, y todos los participantes que nos hace falta servir y cuidar. De acuerdo con los numerosos factores que juegan.
Por qué crees que la iglesia no valora a sus miembros? Que es tu evidencia?
Adán
Hablo desde mi experiencia, fue lo que yo viví y vi desde julio 1990 hasta el 2014 aproximadamente, serví misión y tuve llamamientos como todo miembro fiel.
Es mi experiencia
Omar Valenzuela E
Chile Santiago
O sea que en tu experiencia los lideres eclesiasticos te faltaron por falta de apoyo financiero o espiritual? Por falta de no poner suficiente calefaccion en las capillas heladas en el invierno, o en otras formas? Tenias obispos chuecos que hurtaron los diezmos y ofrendas? Por favor da un solo ejemplo sin accusaciones generales y sin comprobar ni sugerir nada.
@Ohhappydane33
If you don't mind me asking, which part of California do you live in? (You may have mentioned this before, but I forgot.)
That is the one. Lansing used to have one but it was disbanded, and south-west Detroit has a bilingual branch. There also apparently at one point was a Spanish group in Macomb county northeast of Detroit. I am a little surprised Saginaw never had one.
On the other hand Detroit is an extremely cheap place to live. Job availability here is another story.
Why people move is complex.
Pocatello temple update in the news. https://www.kpvi.com/news/local_news/pocatello-lds-temple-making-serious-headway/article_dddeeed4-9f7c-11e9-b5d3-4f29e972e62e.html
Just an idea, the old "Huaral Perú District (organized from 2011-2013), could be reinstated (???).
Currently the Huaral Perú Branch (303690), Chancay Branch (292575) are not assigned to any neighbor Stakes or Districts. And could be combined with the Villas de Ancón Branch (2137682) from the Lima Perú Puente Piedra Stake.
Both Huaral and Chancay Branches are currently assigned to the Peru Lima West Mission.
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=-11.791295,-77.017746&z=10&m=google.road&layers=ward&s=ward:2137682&q=303690&find=ward:303690
Does anyone have the date that the "Tulsa Oklahoma East Stake" was renamed "Broken Arrow Oklahoma Stake"?
While reviewing my lists for changes, I found that I had not changed that name in my list of church stakes.
Maybe in 1983 when the Muskogee, OK stake was discontinued. I have that Tulsa East was created in 1978.
Facebook pages for the stake had the Tulsa Oklahoma East Stake as late as of 2017. Then after that was showing as Broken Arrow Oklahoma Stake.
A new Ward was created in the Los Alpes Cartagena stake. And another ward was divided in Medellin from the Itagui ward. Attendance in said wards before division was about 250. Great news
Does anyone have the website link for where they post the update changes with stakes and wards etc. Someone seems to have a provide a link recently to another website where they are updating the changes with wards and branches. It uses to be on LDS Temples website before it was taken down.
It's http://www.fullerconsideration.com/units.php :)
@Henry Ponnefz
Is that in Spain?
Jonathan Whiting, I am not Henry Ponneftz, but Cartegena and Medellin are two cities in Colombia. I can confirm that because, as I continue to work on revisions to my list of potential cities for which a temple may be announced in October, Medellin is one city I have studied extensively as a prospective location for the next Colombian temple (along with Cali), That can be verified by the following listings for Colombia's two temples:
https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/bogota-colombia-temple/district/
https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/barranquilla-colombia-temple/district/
That said, I know that there are some identical city names not tied to the area of the world in which they are most commonly used. I seem to recall hearing that one of the states in the US has cities named for many of the world's top capital cities. So I suppose it is not out of the question that Cartegena and Medellin could also be names of cities outside of Colombia, but my guess is the individual in question is referring to Colombia. Hope that helps.
Thank you, James.
I was wondering if the cities in question were somewhere in South America, as I know some of the South American countries have borrowed Spanish city names: Córdoba, Valencia, etc.
I don't know which state you're referring to, but Kentucky has a London and a Paris.
Also a Moscow, Idaho.
Northern New York where I grew up has Canton, Potsdam, Madrid (pronounced MAD-rid), Lisbon, Stockholm, and Massena which I presume is after Messina. All of them, last I checked, are under 20,000 people.
Maine also has a bunch of towns named after foreign capitals and countries. Oxford county in the western part of the state has Denmark, Norway, West and South Paris, Mexico, and East and West Peru and is not far away from Naples and Poland. Elsewhere in the state there are towns called Rome, Vienna, Belgrade, Athens, Moscow, Lebanon, Limerick (not a capital, but still a foreign town name), Dresden, Palermo, Lisbon, China, Canaan, East Corinth, Belfast, Orient and New Sweden. I may have missed some, this is just a list culled from an atlas. Somewhere I have seen a picture of a road sign specifically listing several of these towns.
Here is an article about that sign:
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/world-traveler-signpost
Jonathan Whiting, you are most welcome. Glad I could help. I don't claim to know everything, but I do have a knack for being able to know how to track down information fairly quickly in research I do. I also have a varying degree of auditory recall, and for remembering quite a bit of what I read online and in print. So on questions like that, if I don't have or know an answer to such questions, I can usually find one in fairly short order.
As to naming conventions anywhere, it has always fascinated me in various ways and at sundry times how the names of some cities are determined, and particularly the names of newly-organized or renamed Church units. I was especially intrigued therefore to find out that the temple announced for Yuba City has been renamed the Feather River California Temple, and I have been anxiously awaiting for word on the name of the second temple in Manila Philippines.
My thanks to all of you who helped refresh my memory on the question of which states had cities named for a major national capital city. It could have been Kentucky, New York, or Maine that I was thinking of. I may have to track down what it was I read that referred to the state in question. Whenever I got it from, it was more obscure.
Even though the Church is now more than a week into the annual July recess for the General Authorities, one significant thing that has been announced within the last week or so: the Instructions for Curriculum for 2020 have been released:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/instructions-for-curriculum-2020/instructions-for-curriculum-2020?lang=eng
As was the case last year, the release of those instructions has occurred one or two months earlier than it traditionally did during President Monson's prophetic adminstration, which to me is another manifestation of how President Nelson seems to be well ahead of the curve. Unique to this year's instructions is the first-time release of a web and print version of the guidelines set by the Church for the Elders' Quorum and Relief Soceity second- and fourth-Sunday lessons, which will focus on General Conference talks. Previously, that resource had only been available in print and electronically as a page in the May 2019 Ensign.
You can find that particular resource at the following web address:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/learning-from-general-conference/learning-from-general-conference?lang=eng
And I have provided additional personal analysis on the relese of this information through my latest blog post:
https://stokessoundsoff.blogspot.com/2019/07/church-releases-new-curriculum.html
It is also worth mentioning that the Hong Kong China Temple closed for its' 2-3 year renovation process yesterday, with one objective being to repurpose space previously used for Sunday worship and administrative offices (which have been relocated to an adjacent facility) back into temple space.
And finally, within the last week, both Presidents Russell M. Nelson and Dallin H. Oaks have observed milestones in terms of their respective tenures as Church President and President of the Quorum of the Twelve among others who have served in those assignments, and President Nelson has also moved up on the list of Church Presidents by their ages. I have more details on those observed milestones on my blog as well.
In the meantime, my thanks again to you all for helping to contribute to my understanding of and knowledge regarding subjects covered in these threads, and to you as well, Matt, for your continued excellent work reporting Church growth developments.
There are also two Maine towns I lived in myself that were named after- but pronounced differently from- cities in France, Lille and Calais. (The latter, actually an incorporated city and the place where I attended high school, is pronounced like a callus you get on your foot.)
And Paris, Idaho
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._places_named_for_non-U.S._places
I just remembered.
My buddy grew up in a town called "Mexico," New York.
Also, Kentucky has a town called "Versailles," - though it's not pronounced like the French way, "Ver-sigh," but the way you'd expect it to be pronounced in Kentucky: "Ver-sales."
Hey, everyone, thanks for this information! Some would call it "trivia," but it gives us some diversion from our normal daily fare. I grew up near Moscow, ID, and enjoyed reading the "Daily Idahonian" published there.
And as to the alternative pronunciation of "Versailles" in the US, I'm reminded of the Ohio town named Lima, but pronounced "Lie-ma," not how it's pronounced in Spanish in the Peru capital.
There's a Lima like that in Montana, too. Pronounced like Lima Bean.
A new stake will be created in the Philippines this coming September 1. Iba Philippines Stake will be reorganized from a district. Not sure if this is the missing 113th stake or the 115th one. This is either the 7th or 8th stake to be organized in the Philippines this year.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=472377009975110&id=468818926997585
Just talked to a member in the Philippines. While I served in 2010 the Hinigaran ward (in the Binalbagan stake) started up a group located between them and the Isabella ward in Candumarao. We had around 30 people show up to the first sacrament meeting but I lost touch after being transferred the following week. I guess back in March the group matured into a branch and often has 100 members in attendance. They don't attend any meetinghouse as they are too remote from either of the cities, but good to hear that there is still successful planting efforts coming to fruition.
I think these are both Colombia. Medellin for sure and Cartagena in Spain has 1 stake if any. I hope both Cartegena and Medellin soon get temples.
What ten countries will add the most members this year? 2019.
My off hand guesses:
1. United States
2. Brazil
3. Mexico
4. Phillipines
5. Nigeria
6. Congo (DRC)
7. Ivory Coast
8. Ghana
9. Colombia
10. Peru
Any other guesses?
Fastest growing nations:
Rwanda, Uganda, Vietnam...
West and central Africa are doing really well. East Africa is doing better.
Maybe India is picking up momentum, too.
China's freedom situation must change.
It will.
While I couldn't begin to guess which nations will have the highest growth rates this year, I'd imagine Brazil, all other South American nations, pretty much the entire African continent, and the Philippines will continue to see significant growth. And while it may be a bit longer before we know for sure, if the stagnant growth conditions in the US continue to improve, then North America may again become a strong-hold for the Church.
Conversely, there are areas of severe struggle where the challenges faced by Latter-day Saints trying to live their faith are in some ways insurmountable. Within the last year or two, we have seen a Utah RM unjustly incarcerated in Venezuela, and from what I can tell, Venezuela is having severe political issues above and beyond that particular example. I know that there are corruprt leaders in Russia, North Korea, Bulgaria, and other areas whose leadership (or lack of sufficient moral character as political leaders) poses challenges to Church growth as well. To a certain degree, even here in the US, the focus is more on partisan politics and an abandonment of sufficient moral character in so many in either governmental positions or other roles who use their power/influence in all the wrong ways, for all the wrong reasons, with all the wrong motivations. Such individuals surely also lack sufficient moral strength to make the right kind of difference in their roles as those elected or appointed to lead.
Therre is increasing evidence today that various world areas are in turmoil, a defiinitive sign of the times. But how blessed we are to also be witnessing a season of unprecedented developments throughout the Church. The Lord reminds us that, "by small and simple things are great things brought to pass", which is something we see in abundance in our day and time. And I am convinced that when the time is right, the Lord will open doors that are now currently closed to the Church, that people of good character will be called upon to lead where others of lesser ooral fibre have failed to do so, and where the best things are still in store for the Church as a whole, and for individuals, families, and congregational groups.
Not sure if that addresses your question, Eduardo, but these are the thoughts that came to my mind as I read and put together this response to you. Either way, there is increasingly more evidence as to why President Nelson described the Rome Italy Temple dedication as a "hinge-point" in the history of the Church. I can't wait to see what's next in that respect.
My home state of Indiana has plenty of exotic towns and villages. Some have Church of Jesus Christ presence, others do not. Versailles [Vur-sails] should have a unit. Milan [my-lan, rhymes with "pan", like pot] should have one, but maybe not. That is where the real life "Hoosiers" b-ball team upset Crispus Attacks back around 1953 or 1954. Movie with Gene Hackman around 1987, but fictionalized, with some real towns included.
Peru has a unit, I know at least one RM from there.
China and Buddhha do not. Some pro-Tibetans based in Bloomington hike between them to prove a point.
Free Tibet! Wow, like the U.S. will lose Alaska...
We have a branch in English. Not French Lick (home of Larry Bird). My wife has friends from Lebanon.
What else? I think there is a Mexico. And Hindustan not far from Bloomington. Paris, Illinois used to be a branch in Bloomington Stake, as was the Brazil Branch, now defunct.
I may think of some more later...
FYI, beginning July 23rd, the Manhattan NY Temple is closing until October 28th for maintenance work. That will leave one temple open from NC to CT. The Philadelphia temple is going to be very busy!!! Of course most in NC go to Columbia SC but from VA to CT Philadelphia is your closest choice. I imagine Boston will take some of the CT people.
Reported 07/12/2019,
Puntarenas Costa Rica District (612065) discontinued. Unknown where the 2 Branches will be reassigned.
1. Barranca Branch (329495)
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=10.033724,-84.766159&z=11&m=google.road&layers=stakecenter&q=Barranca%20Branch&find=ward:329495
2. Puntarenas Branch (315079)
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=9.870386,-84.979447&z=10&m=google.road&layers=stakecenter&q=Puntarenas%20Branch&find=ward:315079
I would imagine they would be added to the Alajuela Stake, since it appears to be the closest Stake. Alternately, it could be added to the Liberia Stake, but that's a bit further away.
Some people will be attending Palmyra and Columbus temples...
Don't forget that Hartford has a temple and will probably be closer for some of the members in the New York area. Also, the re-opening of the Raleigh temple in mid-October will reduce the drive for the VA members, who currently have their two closest temples both closed.
On twitter possibly stake boundaries changing south west England...
Or how to get folk to stake conference ploy.
@Eduardo:
I was the district leader over Jasper, Indiana (also in the Hoosiers movie) back on the mission.
Also, the Old English Branch (a ward back then) was right outside my last area in Corydon.
I hometaught a girl in college from Valparaiso, Indiana (like the one in Chile, but pronounced "Val-par-eeso").
Fortnite Flex: Within the first two months of this year, I compiled a list of temples that would be closed for an extended period of time later this year. Insofar as I can tell, the temple in Palmyra New York will be open during the time the Manhattan Temple is closed, with the exception of a couple of weeks between September 9 and 21, when Palmyra has its' semiannual customery closure for cleaning.
And by the time the Manhattan Temple reopens, the Raleigh Temple will have been operating again for around 1.5-2 weeks. FWIW, that's what some quick double-checks of my available resources showed. Hope this information is helpful to you and all others in the affected areas you described.
In the meantime, the Tabernacle Choir is gearing up to celebrate the 90th anniversary of its' continuous weekly radio and television broadcast, which will be marked with a special edition of Music and the Spoken Word tomorrow. The day of that broadcast will also coincide with President Nelson's prophetic administration hitting the 1.5 year mark. I took some time earlier today to provide some perspective on both developments, which you can read more about on my blog at the following web address:
https://stokessoundsoff.blogspot.com/2019/07/july-14-2019-marks-two-significant.html
My thanks again to Matt for continuing to allow me to share such updates, and to all of you for the illuminating and inpsiring contributions you make to my understanding of the many topics discussed on these threads. Also, Matt, just by way of a housekeeping note: I appreciate the need for safeguards in the commenting provisions for the blog here. Left unchecked, there would be some who would use a forum like this to criticize, belittle, demean, or degrade others. But one problem with the verification system as it is, especially for someone like me with visual perception issues, is that those issues generally present obstacles with such verification. I will work around it as best I can if there is no other choice, just wanted to provide that feedback to you, FWIW.
California is gonna sink soon because the Lord is coming
Orson Scott Card wrote of the Salt Lake Temple underwater. Are you predicting all the California temples will do likewise? They just millenium-proofed the Oakland temple, and it is high up on a ridge overlooking the Bay.
Only way California would "sink" is if a large earthquake causes a massive shift of the Pacific and North American Plates. California is being torn apart very slowly. Most of California rests on the North American Plate, which is steadily moving southeast, while a good chunk of coastal California is on the Pacific Plate, which is making its way northwest. Most of the Coachella and Imperial Valleys are below sea level (where the Salton Sea is), and if anything were to happen to the Colorado River delta, these valleys would flood, and would greatly affect the 2 Mexicali Stakes, the El Centro Stake, and part of the Palm Desert Stake. Indio would become the new north shore of the Gulf of California.
>Tijuana Mexico Temple (Pacific Plate) - San Luis Rio Colorado Stake is on the North American Plate.
>San Diego California Temple (Pacific Plate) - Yuma Stake is on the North American Plate
>Newport Beach California Temple (Pacific Plate) - has no assigned stakes on the North American Plate
>Redlands California Temple (Pacific Plate) - Yucca Valley, Apple Valley, Victorville, and Hesperia Stakes on the North American Plate.
>Los Angeles California Temple (Pacific Plate) - Ridgecrest, Palmdale, Lancaster (2), and Bakersfield (3) Stakes on the North American Plate.
>Oakland California Temple (North American Plate) - Monterey, Santa Cruz, and San Mateo Stakes on the Pacific Plate.
Layton Temple location revealed.
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2019-07-15/layton-utah-temple-lds-location-50320
Yippee! Within a mile of my parent's home!
Don't worry, if California starts really falling apart, Superman will save us.
https://youtu.be/NEipkFHM3Oc
Can we show some California love? Let's have faith that California and the Church in California will continue to grow and flourish. Sure we may have some headwinds at the moment with some members leaving the state, but that doesn't mean one earthquake in the High Desert in between of Las Vegas and Los Angeles, spells the end of times of California.
I'm aware that my "doomsday" scenario is extremely unlikely to happen, but California will split apart naturally over hundreds, perhaps thousands of years. It's pretty likely the Millennium will happen before that time (but none of us will know when). It's pretty doubtful that California will literally be destroyed.
I have very fond memories of California, primarily going to Disneyland nearly every other year for over almost 10 years (before my mom had her stroke). I also served my mission and met some truly wonderful people there (though sadly, a lot of them have moved away from California, though most still remain).
My first time in California, we visited the redwoods, but I was too young to remember it because I was about five. In May, we took a trip to Oregon to visit my grandparents, and we drove down to Crescent City, making it my second time there (first time actually remembering it).
A good chunk of my family history is in the Bay Area. My dad was born there, but my brother and I weren't. When my dad was young, they lived in Eureka when it got hit by a tsunami caused by the 1964 Alaska Quake, but he doesn't remember living there. 2 of my dad's cousins live in Sacramento (granted, the only 2 I've met), and a step-aunt that lives in Temecula.
My mom's family was stationed in Fort Ord in the early 70's, and a year after being baptized in Virginia, they were sealed together in the Oakland temple.
The Layton Temple will be 87k sq ft. The Bountiful Temple is 104k sq ft and the Ogden Temple is just over 112k sq ft. So, the Layton Temple will be about 20% smaller than either of those two.
It will be about the same size as Payson and Idaho Falls. The Payson Temple has 3 endowment rooms and 7 selling rooms. Idaho Falls is about the same size, too and it has 4 and 7. So, I think Layton will have about the same of number of those rooms.
I think it could look very similar (at least dimensionally) to the Payson because it will be about the same size, and on the same acreage and 3 stories.
*sealing rooms. I think selling rooms in the temple were banned. ;)
I happened to catch the news about the Layton Utah Temple site identification as a result of KSL sending me a "Breaking News" alert from the section of their website focused on religious news. President Nelson continues to work on the queue from both ends. In addition to the Belem Brazil Temple groundbreaking, I believe we will see 2-4 other announced temples have a groundbreaking before the October General Conference takes place. And I think as many as 3 or 4 others could also have a groundbreaking between when General Conference concludes and the end of this year. President Nelson seems to be attacking the queue of announced temples from every angle. Only 1 temple announced in April 2016 remains in the "announced" queue, and that temple (Harare Zimbabwe) and the remaining 4 temples that were announced in April 2017 could be given priority during that time as well. I would not rule out a groundbreaking on Layton Utah, Richmond Virginia, and Auckland New Zealand before the end of this year, and if Bishop Davies is correct, then something will also likely be done about the Bengaluru India Temple before the end of this year as well.
Salta and Mendoza Argentina have sites confirmed already, and since the Church will be using the land held in reserve in Auckland New Zealand for the temple, the same is also likely true about the land held in reserve in Managua Nicaragua. That would leave only Cagayan de Oro Philippines and Russia as the temples annoounced in April 2018 for which more information is needed. Sites have been procured (but not confirmed) for the Phnom Penh Cambodia and newest California temple (which will apparently be called the Feather River California Temple).
I have also heard from a Church member living in Mexico that the site for the Puebla Mexico Temple has been procured, but I don't have details more specific than that. So that leaves Lagos Nigeria, Davao Philippines, and Washington County Utah as the temples announced in October 2018 for which more information is needed. And a probable location has been identified for the Antofagasta Chile Temple by Church members living in that city. So the odds are very good that action could be taken on several temples within the remaining 4.5 months of this year. And if that turns out to be the case, that would leave the temples announced during President Nelson's prophetic administration as the "oldest" such group.
With all of this in mind, based on what happens between now and the end of September, I could almost certainly see President Nelson announcing 14-18 temples in October. If, as I have also heard, the intent is to keep the backlog of announced temples between 30 and 35 (which I assume will provide Church leaders with sufficient motivation to act fast in continuing to clear the backlog), then there will likely be a series of unprecedented temple developments during the remainder of this year.
I have provided some more insight on all of this on my blog, which (with my thanks to Matt for allowing me to continue doing so) you can find at the following web address:
http://stokessoundsoff.blogspot.com
Also, within the last 12 hours or less, new information indicates that full-scale construction has begun or will shortly begin on the 3 temples which had a groundbreaking on May 4 (Yigo Guam, Praia Cabo Verde, and San Juan Puerto Rico), which leaves the Lima Peru Los Olivos Temple as the only other one for which full-scale construction is pending.
Hopefully all of this information is useful to many of you. I certainly look forward to seeing all that is ahead in relation to the temple construction program of the Church.
Also, apparently, the floor area as planned for the Layton Utah Temple is identical to the floor area provided for the Saratoga Springs Utah Temple, so there is another metric for comparison.
Sorry for all the additional comments, but I wanoted to note that it would not shock me in any way if, aside from differences which may exist due to the different cultural trends and natural settings in the areas surrounding the spots on which the Saratoga Springs and Layton Utah Temples will be built, the basic designs of both temples will either be practically similar or virtually identical.
My prediction for the Layton Temple groundbreaking: first quarter (Jan-Mar) of 2020. I'd like to take the Frontrunner up there and watch it. When the official date is announced of course
In my opinion, the temples in their dimensions and beauty has much to do with the committee that reviews and programs them in each country.
They are a reason for joy and blessings for faithful members who love to attend regularly, therefore they should be in every country where the Church is established.
There is so much genealogical work to put "family search" up to date and bring those ordinances for all (as).
Today I took a Venezuelan friend to the temple block in Santiago de Chile and I got a beautiful surprise, about 100 brothers from the north of Chile "ANTOFAGASTA" where the temple that was announced in the general conference was going to be built, they were staying in the hostel to be able to do the sacred ordinances for their ancestors.
In the chapel that is next to the temple the young people were gathered, happy, the temple was beautiful and there was a lot of peace, they will be for several days in the temple.
They traveled by bus 18 hours and so it happens with many brothers from other countries who make sacrifices to be able to go regularly.
I was chatting with a Venezuelan brother on Facebook who says he's never been able to go to the temple because it's 8 hours away and too expensive to get to when most of his money goes to food for his family. Even if the Church announced another Venezuelan temple in the next conference, it probably wouldn't be dedicated for at least six years. It breaks my heart.
Bryan, FWIW, my personal estimate for the Layton Temple is for either late 2019 or early 2020. The timing thereof will largely depend on how quickly the Church may submit formal plans to the city and how quickly thereafter the plans are approved. I seem to recall seeing a statement from the mayor of Layton to the effect that once the Church submits the plans, the city government is ready to take swift and decisive action to approve them. Time may tell how long it will actually take, but I am cautiously optimistic that we may hear more about this temple before the end of this year.
Christopher, I had a few thoughts on your assessment of the timing within which a second Venezuelan Temple could be announced, if I may offer them. First of all, while the temple in Caracas was still under construct6ion, President Hinckley visited Maracaibo and publicly proposed a temple there, saying that it might be a while before that announcement was made, but that it would happen at some point based on the faithfulness of the members of the Church in that city.
Futher, as I have observed previously, some of the temples announced by Presidents Monson and Nelson include locations for which a temple was publicly proposed during the administrations of their prophetic predecessors. Additionally, last year, the announcement of temples in India and Russia occurred a decade or longer before many (myself included) would have thought possible as recently as 2-3 years ago. This to me suggests that we may need to adjust our thinking in terms of the imminent timing of the announcement of other temples for locations which seem like a more distant prospect or a long-shot.
Also, in May of this year, Bishop Dean M. Davies, First Counselor in the Presiding Bishopric, visited Saints in Bengaluru India. During that visit, he told them that the Church was hoping to release more information about the Bengaluru temple before the end of this year, particularly details about the location and design. So it is more likely than not that the Bengaluru Temple could have a groundbreaking within 2 years or less of its' announcement, another verification that our thinking needs to change about the time-frames and imminence of the announcement of future temple prospects.
Another quick note on the Bengaluru India Temple. In April of 2018, when President Nelson explained the circumstances surrounding the announcement of that temple, he mentioned that it is easier for the Church to construct a new temple anywhere in the world than it is to ensure that the Saints in the areas served by such temples are ready for them when they are built. He went on to admonish them, "You had better hurry [to prepare for the temple to be built in your midst]." So the fact that the temple could have a groundbreaking within less than 2 years after both the announcement thereof and President Nelson's admonition in that respect, the Saints surely took his counsel seriously, and will be sufficiently prepared for construction to begin, which should occur sometime next year. I was similarly surprised by Bishop Davies' statement that more details were due to be released about the temple before the end of this year.
The facts surrounding the Bengaluru India Temple aside, given that President Nelson has announced 27 new temples during his first 3 General Conferences as Church President, and given that more than a few of the announced locations are in nations that are experiencing great moral, spiritual, or political turmoil, places that have seemed to be more of a long-shot in the recent past, or even currently, could possibly be announced much sooner than any of us might expect. That is one of many reasons why I have included Maracaibo Venezuela as one of the prospective cities on my list of potential temple locations for the October 2019 General Conference.
Everything I have read and heard on my end lately indicates that out-of-the-box, unconventional thinking may be needed over the next decade and more when it comes to considering the most likely temple prospects, and how soon they may be announced. And using what patterns we can glean from the 27 locations in which temples have been announced since January of last year, coupled with a substantial amount of unconventional and nontraditional thinking and reasoning, may be the best way to anticipate the most likely locations which will go on to have a temple announced in October 2019.
And, quite frankly, since 27 temples being announced within the first 3 General Conferences of any new Church President is similarly unprecedented, to use traditional thinking may not serve us very well, especially if the trends and expectations relating to temple announcements continue to be shattered the way they have between the beginning of 2018 and now. So I would not rule out the odds that a second Venezuelan temple is not only on the horizon, but could be announced within the next 1-3 General Conferences, whether it is located in Maracaibo or elsewhere.
I apologize for my lengthy comment here, but wanted to provide some food for thought, for what it may be worth to any of you. Having extensively studied future temple presopects for around 4.5 years (if not longer than that), and based on all I continue to hear about what may be ahead for the temple construction program of the Church, the anticipation of unprecedented developments in that respect may require a generous amount of unprecedented thinking and reasoning. And because of that study, I stand by my feeling that 14-16 new temples may be announced in October, especially if more is done over the next 2.5 months to further clear the existing queue of announced temples. Hope these observations, such as they are, are helpful to all who read them.
Christopher Nicholson
That is true, money is a problem to go to the temple when it is scarce as it is today in Venezuela and in more places in the world.
With the face of life and despite all the faith and sacrifices they may have to go to the temples, the distances are long and if we add that they are families, it is even more difficult.
The German-speaking ward in Salt Lake has apparently been discontinued, and they had a special visitor at the last sacrament meeting
https://www.thechurchnews.com/members/2019-07-17/elder-uchtdorf-salt-lake-german-ward-sacrament-50324
Church Leaders Receive Information on New Global Children and Youth Initiative
Apostles to outline program in fall broadcasts
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-leaders-receive-information-new-global-youth-initiative
Church announces conferences modeled after EFY for stakes in U.S., Canada, as part of new Children and Youth program
The Iowa Des Moines Mission has been renamed the Iowa Iowa City Mission.
Dane, if I may ask, where did you find the information on the name change for that mission? I just ran a search for it and was redirected to information about the old name thereof. Thanks.
As mentioned above FSY conferences is coming to the US and Canada. With that change EFY is going away in its current format. Only EFY express and EFY at Palmyra and Nauvoo will happen each year.(see efy.byu.edu for specifics) This will be a great change for the youth and the young single adults who will be their counselors. The youth will bond and really find mentors in their same stake or nearby stakes that they can keep in contact with. I am excited to see this come to fruition in the next 3 years. The 200 plus stakes chosen for the pilot next year have been released. You can see if your stake is one of the chosen. https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/multimedia/file/16950-000-notice.pdf
This is biennial so it really starts in 2021 with half of the US and Canada hosting them and then in 2022 the other half hosting them. The November face to face will have more details about the FSY conferences.
James,
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=41.356758,-91.770601&z=7&m=google.road&layers=mission&q=Iowa%20Iowa%20City%20Mission&find=mission:2011328
Thank you for that, Chris. Depending on how recently the change in question occurred, it could be that the relevant websites haven't yet been updated to reflect tha.
For those who may be interested, tonight, I concluded my revision of the list of locations for which a temple seems most likely to be announced in October 2019. That latest list is now available for review and discussion on my blog, and can be found at the following web adcddress:
https://stokessoundsoff.blogspot.com/2019/07/revised-and-expanded-list-of-potential.html
An open commenting period continues to be in effect on that list until Monday October 1, at which point I would need to put the finishing touches on it before the General Conference weekend. My thanks again to Matt for continuing to allow me to share such developments here, and to all of you for everything you continue to do to contribute to my understanding of all that is discussed here. Keep up the great work, everyone!
For any interested,
Temporarily reassigned units from the "Nicaragua Managua South Mission (2012588)" to the "Nicaragua Managua North Mission (1175777)"
Stakes
1 447072 Jinotepe Nicaragua
2 514594 Managua Nicaragua
3 468118 Managua Nicaragua Universitaria
4 2104180 Masatepe Nicaragua
5 468177 Masaya Nicaragua
Districts
1 495085 Juigalpa Nicaragua
2 613428 Granada Nicaragua
I'm not sure if in preparation to discontinue "Nicaragua Managua South Mission", due to political unrest in the country? Any ideas?
Also the entire country of Nicaragua on Classic Maps is within 1 mission boundary.
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=12.876556,-84.407005&z=7&m=google.road&layers=mission&q=Nicaragua%20Managua%20North&find=mission:1175777
I love the FSY program idea! When I was 17, I was on the Stake Youth Committee that planned youth conference and we brought in 3 EFY speakers and they presented and did activities throughout the week. It was amazing. I still remember several of the activities and lessons. I love even more the idea of having the YSAs from the area as counselors! What a great way to get them involved and have a reason to be living the gospel! I hope this increases retention of both youth and young adult.
The announcement had 4 historic EFY places that will remain: Palmyra, Nauvoo, Independence, and Salt Lake. Express EFY sounded like it was separate from these historic places ones.
Also, these FSY events won't require the Stake or ward leaders to attend. That is unique and stress reducing for the adult leaders. I am in the Young Men organization locally and sinners are filled with planning, preparing and doing big activities such as camps and youth conferences on top of the usual weekly activities, Sunday meetings and coordinating meetings. This is a great move!
And it reminds the "elitist" feeling from EFY. The cost prohibited many from attending. These are well designed and structured events that really strengthen the youth! Super exciting!
*removes not reminds.
*summers not sinners ;)
I understand that BYU may host some of the FSY events in the Salt Lake metro, already having many of the needed facilities to pull the events off.
This also means no more EFY music albums, everyone got a free album from 1987 on, first tapes, then CDs, and lastly downloads. The music FSY will use is the annual Youth Theme Album, the theme should be announced about 1 August for next year, the album will go live in early December.
The album, however, will not include one or more hymn arrangements, a staple of EFY music until the last few years or so. Hymns are the most powerful Church music we have, and unlike the contemporary songs, if done right the arrangements can be sung in sacrament meeting too. The most famous of these arrangements is the 'EFY Medly' which has outlasted almost all of the now over 450 contemporary songs.
Which is why despite unit loss I think Venezuela will get 2 more temples at least by 2030 if not earlier.
I am not sure why I cheered at this. I think because to me this was a hold on to the day when the Church was primarily white and white oriented. I try not to be bothered by my all white branch council in a branch where 75% or more and half the members are African American. I am so glad that President Nelson is speaking to the national convention of the NAACP. Also I am over joyed at Elder Peter M. Johnson's call as a general authority. Not only is Johnson African-American but as an early youth he was a local NYC rapper and a Muslim. Yet as an accounting professor he shows that African-Americans can achieve great things. His wife being white is also worth noting.
True Elder Sitati and Elder Dube are black, but they are not African-American. The Xhurch explodes in Congo, Ivory Coast and Nigeria but it is not clear we are making headway among African-Americans. My grandchildren are pretty much the only black children in primary in my branch. The one hope of strong multigenerational black families in my branch is Brother Jones, well at least the one growing most right now. He was baptized last month but his son, daughter and law and their 7 children have been active members for a while in a different branch. Since his baptism his son took him to the temple to do the baptism for Brother Jones late brother.
I like the FSY plan. Regional EFYs always seemed like after thoughts with the main focus on BYU. Also it will cut down on demands on youth leaders and allow to avoid burnout.
FSY has been held in Mexico for the last close to ten years, as well as in other countries. They were piloting it in my mission just as I was leaving it (2007).
I am so excited President Nelson will be speaking to the NAACP in Detroit today. I am so excited.
Elder Uchtdorf posted about that last sacrament meeting in the German ward in Salt Lake that was discontinued after last week, saw onwe post on Facebook but he may have used Twitter and Instagram also.
My dad, who served in Germany, attended that last sacrament meeting. He had attended several times before.
This was one of the coolest things I learned about the NAACP/Church of Jesus Christ collaboration today:
"Rev. Brown said he presented Joseph Smith's abolitionist teachings with the students in the personal finance classes at his church. He taught them about the church's past, and how it lifted its former ban on priesthood ordinations and temple blessings for blacks. He considers the surprising collaboration an example."
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900080551/naacp-church-of-jesus-christ-latter-day-saints-inner-city-problems.amp
@Ryan Searcy:
I've also had the chance to visit the Redwoods and Crescent City, and I've got family history in the Bay Area, too: Monterrey (my Mother) and San Fran (my Grandmother) specifically. Also, I got to go to LA in college to visit the Los Angeles County Museum of Art (next to the La Brea Tar-pits) and the Geddy Museum.
California's got a lot of great stuff in it.
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