I participated in the Salt Lake Tribune's Mormonland Podcast yesterday. We discuss the results of survey data I have collected about the missionary program and church growth, as well as temple predictions. Access the podcast here.
The rumors about temples are increasing, not just what we have been hearing but with more variation in numbers, and like the fish story, the fish keeps getting bigger with each new one that comes along.
The latest has 300 more announced and mostly over the next five years for a total of 500 overall. What varies is whether they all will be complete in five years, when will they be announced whether it be in groups or all at once, or some other combination of factors, a few even put the announcement total to be 500 but the prevailing thinking is to total 500 inclusive of all that has at least been announced before
I've been following the decline of Venezuela and I'm wondering how the LDS population is doing. Also, is the temple still operating? Does anyone have any information?
Paulo, com relação aos membros que saem da Venezuela para o Brasil chegando aqui eles estão sendo levados para varias partes do Brasil, esta sendo providenciado pelos membros e líderes, casas para morarem, alimento, escola para as crianças e emprego Tem sido uma experiência maravilhosa para todos os envolvidos.
Sergio or someone that speaks Portuguese, please give an English translation. (I spoke Spanish on my mission- I could almost do it myself but there are a couple words I can't figure out from context.) But Sergio's comment is about how members from Venezuela are being received and helped in Brazil, so I don't think he answered all of Paul's questions.
"Paulo, with regard to the members who leave Venezuela for Brazil arriving here they are being taken to various parts of Brazil, being provided by members and leaders, houses to live in, food, school for children and employment It has been a wonderful experience for everyone involved."
There have been units and a few stakes closed (not sure the numbers) in the past couple years, but at the same time there have been unit creations and even a new stake was created last year.
Paul, according to the Church's site, Venezuela's temple is still in operation. However, it is right now in a scheduled maintenance closure for 2 weeks. It reopens April 8th, according to the site.
James, I would be stunned if there are 100 (and even more so, another 300) temples announced this Conference. There will be an acceleration of temple building over the next 5 years and beyond, but the Church and the Lord work in methodical ways. To go to 300 or 500 temples over night would be extremely challenging. I could be completely wrong, however.
You know how Hickley had a goal of 100 Temples by the year 2,000? Well, what if Nelson has a similar goal to have 500 temples by 2030 the 200th birthday of the church? That gives a longer time span, making it miraculous, but more realistic...
We hear of the lengthy waits to attend the Temples there and especially of the tight schedules for youth attending baptismal sessions where there is only time for them to be baptized for 3 individuals.
While waiting for Temples to be built to accommodate the demand there - come now & attend where the Temples have more seating capacity - in every session, every day. Perfect for this summer.
Singles, couples, families, youth groups could attend the Hartford, Boston or other Temple's back East ... and easily complete dozens of sessions; thousands of baptisms; hundreds of sealings etc. The opportunity is wide open.
Youth groups could easily perform thousands of baptisms in a week. How? Prepare using the Ordinances Ready app - each member of your ward can print 4 cards - gather the cards from your ward/stake and bring your Stake youth & all of the cards you can gather - and come here and do the work.
Would it be a burden on the Temple? No - youth & the adults that accompany them can 'staff' the Baptistry & the laundry area so that everything operates smoothly. With the youth recording the names in the Baptistry area. It would be a sacred, memorable time.
Adults attending other areas of the Temple would be gratefully welcomed.
This list had a thread about members being underutilized in terms of callings out West - move here and pour yourself into the Temple. You'll be very welcome here and can easily attend and serve.
You're needed - there is work to be done. Come for a week - come for a few months - retire here dedicate yourself to the work.
There are Inns/hotels/apartments within an easy walk of the Temple - and others just minutes away by car.
@Thomas, when you say there I assume you are referring to perhaps Utah or the Intermountain West. He meaning the northeast/New England states of ther US. Is that correct?
@coachodeeps - yes. With the heavy utilization of the Temples in Utah and the long wait time for more Temples to be built - I am suggesting that members wanting to complete more work consider making time to attend the Hartford or Boston Temples - spending a week where youth/adults can be comfortably accommodated - likely completing way more ordinances here then they are able to there.
Want to feel needed - make a difference? Then move here and pour yourself into the Temple - you're needed. Singles - couples - all are needed. Help us to gather Israel on both sides of the veil. Stay for a week; stay for a month - or longer.
Recently a child was killed in Orem Utah whose parents were seeking refugee status from Venezuela. Other things indiicate many Church members have left that country. I doubt considering the number of members in the country the temple would ever stop operating.
We build temples with multiple endowment rooms and multiple sealing rooms. What about building temples with two or more baptismal fonts in Utah or other places with busy temples? That way they can keep up with demand during peek hours of the day. Is it possible to add another baptismal font during renovations in some busy temples?
I still think the right goal for 2030 is 1000 temples. The last was 100 by 2000 from Christ's birth. This is 1000 by 200 from His Church's restoration. I do not know if over 800 temples dedicated in the next 11 years is at all doable, but this is not the first time I have suggested it. If President Nelson announces over 30 temples this weekend a goal of 1000 by 2030 might be doable. If the number announced is anything below 30 such a high goal seems very hard.
In the past the presidency of the Provo Temple asked for a second baptistry and had that request rejected as against policy.
One thing to keep in mind is expanding operating time for baptistries is an option. The Detroit Temple opened the baptistry on Presidents Day, the first time on a Monday ever. It was doable because new policies meant fewer adults were needed to staff.
The person I did the endowment for yesterday had their baptism done 4 years ago. Until we have to cancel endowment sessions because not enough baptisms have been done I doubt we will see systemic changes.
Utah has 3 more temples announced, while the rest of the US also has 3. I still could see more temple announced for Utah this weekend.
There has also been a push to move baptisms for the dead from youth groups to families.
@Unknown I like your goal. Thousands of Temples are in our future.
"To accomplish this work there will have to be not only one temple but thousands of them, and thousands and tens of thousands of men and women will go into those temples and officiate for people who have lived as far back as the Lord shall reveal." Brigham Young Discourses of Brigham Young, page 394
"The time will come when there will be temples established over every portion of the land, and we will go into these temples and work for our kindred dead night and day..." Lorenzo Snow, 17 August 1899
Does anyone know why having more than one baptismal font is against church policy? The D&C spells out the doctrine of Baptisms for the Dead, I doubt there's policy included in that to do with this matter. Policy could change eventually here's to hoping.
While not a temple prediction regarding locations --- I was wondering if you have any predictions regarding scheduling of the temple, i.e. could some temples now be opened on Mondays during the day in areas of high activity? I know temples are closed on Mondays so FHE doesn't conflict with anything... but during the day?? What's the reason behind that? Obviously Temple workers need breaks, but for areas of high activity (such as Utah), I'm sure there are a lot of people willing to serve on Monday (both as Temple workers or people bringing in their own names). I don't understand why it's closed all day?
Also, I know the Hong Kong Temple is certainly not the norm, but they have the Temple open during 4 Sundays out of the year for those who literally work every day of the week except Sunday. Do you think there will be more adjustments/flexibility in schedules?
I appreciated the story about the Detroit Temple and President's Day availability. Are there any other known cases like this?
I like that idea! ^^^ I think going to the Temple for FHE would be an excellent thing to do! It would certainly help my family because Sunday's and Monday nights are the only times my family is gathered together in one place and would be able to go as a family to do sacred ordinances! I know it doesn't work for all cases (for those with children under 12, etc.), but it would increase availability and hasten the work by having an extra day to perform ordinances.
As you stated, I know it's also important that the temple workers have FHE as well, but cannot those who want to serve on Monday night still serve and reserve time to have their FHE an alternative day? Isn't it more important to increase the availability of the temple? Isn't that one of the easiest ways to provide access to temples in areas like Utah (instead of just building tons more)? Just increase the availability/time so it's not so crowded? But I'm not a statistician or an expert on these matters so I have no idea.
I see the Temple being opened on Mondays in certain places happening soon. But I don't think they will be open on Sundays anytime soon. But tbh, I don't perceive why having a temple open on a Sunday is crazy or outlandish... I think that's the exact kind of work we should be focusing on on Sunday, but people would need to get over the initial shock or their own perceptions as seeing Temple service as... well... "Work." They'll see it as a breaking of the sabbath or something... Idk.... I'm all for it!!! But I don't know if you can change the tides of LDS culture.
The Ogden Temple President told me he'd asked for a second font as well but was turned down by Church Headquarters. Not sure why, other than our traditions so far of building them with only one font.
It could also be that the biggest volume of ordinances being done are baptisms, so The Brethren don't want to create an extra backlog of say, Endowments.
Although, Endowments are already pretty bottlenecked as is, and doing more baptisms would only ensure that more of the deceased have at least the basic ordinances done and that more youth can be involved in Temple service more often, so I would be a fan of them building a second font in some temples.
At the very least, it would be interesting to see them test out building a second font at one of the busier temples (like Ogden or Provo) and see the results.
I've spent a fair bit of time looking at temple schedules. The Provo and Saint George temples are completely open until the early afternoon on Mondays. The Salt Lake temple used to be open on Mondays for a few years, but they stopped that after more temples were built in the valley. The Provo City center and Payson temples have also had MLK day and Presidents' Day with only the baptistry open, accomdating college and high school students who have the day off. The two temples in England also open on Mondays for some bank holidays during the year. I'm sure there have been more examples in the past as well.
The biggest reason I could see for them not doing the second font thing is perhaps the Lord has given specific revelation against it that we of the general membership are not yet privy to.
Speaking of testing things out, an idea for trying out opening some temples on Mondays could be to just open them half the day or so, and have all ordinances be by appointment.
Monday Openings The Boston Temple was open on the Monday federal holidays for years. Over the years they cut back on the Monday openings - and now Mondays are no longer on the schedule. The Temple was open for all ordinances.
Church policy closed on Sunday as the D&C states the sabbath is for renewing of covenants, specifying baptismal covenants. Which in turn in modern church culture means Sunday worship the full 2hrs. Church policy can change it always does.
The 'second font' idea was supposedly floated for Provo, the story is not confirmable and can't be properly verified, but here's what supposedly happened.
In about 2009 I went to a funeral very close to where I live, the family had requested it be held there over my building, which is where the deceased member's ward (also my own) was.
Had a stray moment so I checked the bulletin board by the bishops office on one side. On it was a letter from the temple president about sundry procedures for baptisms at Provo, and it was mentioned that use of the baptistry there had quadrupled in the last few months or so before the letter, which was recent based on when I was there for the funeral.
I heard several years later, and this is the rumor part, that the temple president had worked things through and had even had some draw up plans for a second baptistry, and in late November or early December had submitted the plans to the Presiding Bishop.
On or about December 14th, 2010, they got a response. 'No, we don't do it that way' was the supposed answer from the Presiding bishop.
Three days later, the old Provo Tabernacle burned down.
So, Provo as a location got its second baptistry after all, albeit in another temple, Provo City Center, built in the shell of the burned-out tabernale.
Provo Temple was open on Mondays back in 2003 and may still be. So was the Jordan River Temple. Sao Paulo and Washington DC at times in the past did sessions basically all night long and Hong Kong is open some Sundays.
It seems the current push is to build more temples. I still expect an Orem Temple soon. Also the new policies allowing priests to baptize in the temple are one way to allow youth more opportunities. The creation of family baptism times also allows for this.
That's funny, because it was just a few months after I overheard the Ogden Temple President tell our group we needed to petition Salt Lake for a second baptistry that the Layton temple was announced in conference.
The reason I brought up the idea of two fonts is because a few nights ago, I dreamed I was taking my son to do baptisms for the dead in some unknown temple. In that dream there were two fonts. It seemed busy with the need of getting the work done.
38 comments:
The rumors about temples are increasing, not just what we have been hearing but with more variation in numbers, and like the fish story, the fish keeps getting bigger with each new one that comes along.
The latest has 300 more announced and mostly over the next five years for a total of 500 overall. What varies is whether they all will be complete in five years, when will they be announced whether it be in groups or all at once, or some other combination of factors, a few even put the announcement total to be 500 but the prevailing thinking is to total 500 inclusive of all that has at least been announced before
I've been following the decline of Venezuela and I'm wondering how the LDS population is doing. Also, is the temple still operating? Does anyone have any information?
Paulo, com relação aos membros que saem da Venezuela para o Brasil chegando aqui eles estão sendo levados para varias partes do Brasil, esta sendo providenciado pelos membros e líderes, casas para morarem, alimento, escola para as crianças e emprego
Tem sido uma experiência maravilhosa para todos os envolvidos.
Sergio or someone that speaks Portuguese, please give an English translation. (I spoke Spanish on my mission- I could almost do it myself but there are a couple words I can't figure out from context.) But Sergio's comment is about how members from Venezuela are being received and helped in Brazil, so I don't think he answered all of Paul's questions.
"Paulo, with regard to the members who leave Venezuela for Brazil arriving here they are being taken to various parts of Brazil, being provided by members and leaders, houses to live in, food, school for children and employment
It has been a wonderful experience for everyone involved."
The Caracas Temple is still operating. It's currently closed for two weeks since March 25th, but will be back open next Tuesday.
https://www.lds.org/temples/details/caracas-venezuela-temple?lang=eng
There have been units and a few stakes closed (not sure the numbers) in the past couple years, but at the same time there have been unit creations and even a new stake was created last year.
Paul, according to the Church's site, Venezuela's temple is still in operation. However, it is right now in a scheduled maintenance closure for 2 weeks. It reopens April 8th, according to the site.
James, I would be stunned if there are 100 (and even more so, another 300) temples announced this Conference. There will be an acceleration of temple building over the next 5 years and beyond, but the Church and the Lord work in methodical ways. To go to 300 or 500 temples over night would be extremely challenging. I could be completely wrong, however.
You know how Hickley had a goal of 100 Temples by the year 2,000? Well, what if Nelson has a similar goal to have 500 temples by 2030 the 200th birthday of the church? That gives a longer time span, making it miraculous, but more realistic...
We hear of the lengthy waits to attend the Temples there and especially of the tight schedules for youth attending baptismal sessions where there is only time for them to be baptized for 3 individuals.
While waiting for Temples to be built to accommodate the demand there - come now & attend where the Temples have more seating capacity - in every session, every day. Perfect for this summer.
Singles, couples, families, youth groups could attend the Hartford, Boston or other Temple's back East ... and easily complete dozens of sessions; thousands of baptisms; hundreds of sealings etc. The opportunity is wide open.
Youth groups could easily perform thousands of baptisms in a week.
How? Prepare using the Ordinances Ready app - each member of your ward can print 4 cards - gather the cards from your ward/stake and bring your Stake youth & all of the cards you can gather - and come here and do the work.
Would it be a burden on the Temple? No - youth & the adults that accompany them can 'staff' the Baptistry & the laundry area so that everything operates smoothly. With the youth recording the names in the Baptistry area. It would be a sacred, memorable time.
Adults attending other areas of the Temple would be gratefully welcomed.
This list had a thread about members being underutilized in terms of callings out West - move here and pour yourself into the Temple. You'll be very welcome here and can easily attend and serve.
You're needed - there is work to be done.
Come for a week - come for a few months - retire here dedicate yourself to the work.
There are Inns/hotels/apartments within an easy walk of the Temple - and others just minutes away by car.
@Thomas, when you say there I assume you are referring to perhaps Utah or the Intermountain West. He meaning the northeast/New England states of ther US. Is that correct?
@coachodeeps - yes.
With the heavy utilization of the Temples in Utah and the long wait time for more Temples to be built - I am suggesting that members wanting to complete more work consider making time to attend the Hartford or Boston Temples - spending a week where youth/adults can be comfortably accommodated - likely completing way more ordinances here then they are able to there.
Want to feel needed - make a difference?
Then move here and pour yourself into the Temple - you're needed.
Singles - couples - all are needed. Help us to gather Israel on both sides of the veil.
Stay for a week; stay for a month - or longer.
Come and see what you can accomplish.
Recently a child was killed in Orem Utah whose parents were seeking refugee status from Venezuela. Other things indiicate many Church members have left that country. I doubt considering the number of members in the country the temple would ever stop operating.
We build temples with multiple endowment rooms and multiple sealing rooms. What about building temples with two or more baptismal fonts in Utah or other places with busy temples? That way they can keep up with demand during peek hours of the day. Is it possible to add another baptismal font during renovations in some busy temples?
I still think the right goal for 2030 is 1000 temples. The last was 100 by 2000 from Christ's birth. This is 1000 by 200 from His Church's restoration. I do not know if over 800 temples dedicated in the next 11 years is at all doable, but this is not the first time I have suggested it. If President Nelson announces over 30 temples this weekend a goal of 1000 by 2030 might be doable. If the number announced is anything below 30 such a high goal seems very hard.
In the past the presidency of the Provo Temple asked for a second baptistry and had that request rejected as against policy.
One thing to keep in mind is expanding operating time for baptistries is an option. The Detroit Temple opened the baptistry on Presidents Day, the first time on a Monday ever. It was doable because new policies meant fewer adults were needed to staff.
The person I did the endowment for yesterday had their baptism done 4 years ago. Until we have to cancel endowment sessions because not enough baptisms have been done I doubt we will see systemic changes.
Utah has 3 more temples announced, while the rest of the US also has 3. I still could see more temple announced for Utah this weekend.
There has also been a push to move baptisms for the dead from youth groups to families.
@Unknown
I like your goal. Thousands of Temples are in our future.
"To accomplish this work there will have to be not only one temple but thousands of them, and thousands and tens of thousands of men and women will go into those temples and officiate for people who have lived as far back as the Lord shall reveal."
Brigham Young
Discourses of Brigham Young, page 394
"The time will come when there will be temples established over every portion of the land, and we will go into these temples and work for our kindred dead night and day..."
Lorenzo Snow, 17 August 1899
Does anyone know why having more than one baptismal font is against church policy? The D&C spells out the doctrine of Baptisms for the Dead, I doubt there's policy included in that to do with this matter. Policy could change eventually here's to hoping.
As we have seen this week and for the past year as well as throughout church history, policy has and will change.
While not a temple prediction regarding locations --- I was wondering if you have any predictions regarding scheduling of the temple, i.e. could some temples now be opened on Mondays during the day in areas of high activity? I know temples are closed on Mondays so FHE doesn't conflict with anything... but during the day?? What's the reason behind that? Obviously Temple workers need breaks, but for areas of high activity (such as Utah), I'm sure there are a lot of people willing to serve on Monday (both as Temple workers or people bringing in their own names). I don't understand why it's closed all day?
Also, I know the Hong Kong Temple is certainly not the norm, but they have the Temple open during 4 Sundays out of the year for those who literally work every day of the week except Sunday. Do you think there will be more adjustments/flexibility in schedules?
I appreciated the story about the Detroit Temple and President's Day availability. Are there any other known cases like this?
I like that idea! ^^^ I think going to the Temple for FHE would be an excellent thing to do! It would certainly help my family because Sunday's and Monday nights are the only times my family is gathered together in one place and would be able to go as a family to do sacred ordinances! I know it doesn't work for all cases (for those with children under 12, etc.), but it would increase availability and hasten the work by having an extra day to perform ordinances.
As you stated, I know it's also important that the temple workers have FHE as well, but cannot those who want to serve on Monday night still serve and reserve time to have their FHE an alternative day? Isn't it more important to increase the availability of the temple? Isn't that one of the easiest ways to provide access to temples in areas like Utah (instead of just building tons more)? Just increase the availability/time so it's not so crowded? But I'm not a statistician or an expert on these matters so I have no idea.
I see the Temple being opened on Mondays in certain places happening soon. But I don't think they will be open on Sundays anytime soon. But tbh, I don't perceive why having a temple open on a Sunday is crazy or outlandish... I think that's the exact kind of work we should be focusing on on Sunday, but people would need to get over the initial shock or their own perceptions as seeing Temple service as... well... "Work." They'll see it as a breaking of the sabbath or something... Idk.... I'm all for it!!! But I don't know if you can change the tides of LDS culture.
The Ogden Temple President told me he'd asked for a second font as well but was turned down by Church Headquarters. Not sure why, other than our traditions so far of building them with only one font.
It could also be that the biggest volume of ordinances being done are baptisms, so The Brethren don't want to create an extra backlog of say, Endowments.
Although, Endowments are already pretty bottlenecked as is, and doing more baptisms would only ensure that more of the deceased have at least the basic ordinances done and that more youth can be involved in Temple service more often, so I would be a fan of them building a second font in some temples.
At the very least, it would be interesting to see them test out building a second font at one of the busier temples (like Ogden or Provo) and see the results.
I've spent a fair bit of time looking at temple schedules. The Provo and Saint George temples are completely open until the early afternoon on Mondays. The Salt Lake temple used to be open on Mondays for a few years, but they stopped that after more temples were built in the valley. The Provo City center and Payson temples have also had MLK day and Presidents' Day with only the baptistry open, accomdating college and high school students who have the day off. The two temples in England also open on Mondays for some bank holidays during the year. I'm sure there have been more examples in the past as well.
The biggest reason I could see for them not doing the second font thing is perhaps the Lord has given specific revelation against it that we of the general membership are not yet privy to.
Speaking of testing things out, an idea for trying out opening some temples on Mondays could be to just open them half the day or so, and have all ordinances be by appointment.
@Cory Ward
Thanks! You answered my question as to whether the Church had tried opening some Temples on Mondays in the past.
YES, thanks for the info on the Monday openings of various Temples -- I find that very interesting!!
Monday Openings
The Boston Temple was open on the Monday federal holidays for years. Over the years they cut back on the Monday openings - and now Mondays are no longer on the schedule. The Temple was open for all ordinances.
Church policy closed on Sunday as the D&C states the sabbath is for renewing of covenants, specifying baptismal covenants. Which in turn in modern church culture means Sunday worship the full 2hrs. Church policy can change it always does.
The 'second font' idea was supposedly floated for Provo, the story is not confirmable and can't be properly verified, but here's what supposedly happened.
In about 2009 I went to a funeral very close to where I live, the family had requested it be held there over my building, which is where the deceased member's ward (also my own) was.
Had a stray moment so I checked the bulletin board by the bishops office on one side. On it was a letter from the temple president about sundry procedures for baptisms at Provo, and it was mentioned that use of the baptistry there had quadrupled in the last few months or so before the letter, which was recent based on when I was there for the funeral.
I heard several years later, and this is the rumor part, that the temple president had worked things through and had even had some draw up plans for a second baptistry, and in late November or early December had submitted the plans to the Presiding Bishop.
On or about December 14th, 2010, they got a response. 'No, we don't do it that way' was the supposed answer from the Presiding bishop.
Three days later, the old Provo Tabernacle burned down.
So, Provo as a location got its second baptistry after all, albeit in another temple, Provo City Center, built in the shell of the burned-out tabernale.
Provo Temple was open on Mondays back in 2003 and may still be. So was the Jordan River Temple. Sao Paulo and Washington DC at times in the past did sessions basically all night long and Hong Kong is open some Sundays.
It seems the current push is to build more temples. I still expect an Orem Temple soon. Also the new policies allowing priests to baptize in the temple are one way to allow youth more opportunities. The creation of family baptism times also allows for this.
That's funny, because it was just a few months after I overheard the Ogden Temple President tell our group we needed to petition Salt Lake for a second baptistry that the Layton temple was announced in conference.
(Not as dramatic as the Provo story, of course)
St George Utah temple has been open Mondays for years. But only in the morning.
The reason I brought up the idea of two fonts is because a few nights ago, I dreamed I was taking my son to do baptisms for the dead in some unknown temple. In that dream there were two fonts. It seemed busy with the need of getting the work done.
@L. Chris Jones
I love having dreams about new temple designs. I get those every once in a while, too.
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