Sunday, October 7, 2018

October 2018 New Temple Announcements - Analysis

As noted in my post earlier today, today's historic announcement of twelve new temples sets a new record for the most new temples ever announced on a single day. See below for analysis and background on the Church for each of these twelve locations. Most of these temples appear likely to be small temples given the lack of members in each of these locations. The motivation for the construction of most of these temples appears to be to improve accessibility to temples for members, particularly those who live far from the nearest temple. With these twelve new temples announced, there are now 201 temples in the Church that are announced, under construction, or in operation. Additionally, the Church has posted membership data for several countries that appears current as of October 1st, 2018. This information can be found in the Church's official news release regarding today's announcement.

Mendoza Argentina Temple
The Mendoza Argentina Temple will be the Church's fourth temple to be built in Argentina after the Buenos Aires Argentina Temple (dedicated in 1986), Cordoba Argentina Temple (dedicated in 2015), and the Salta Argentina Temple (announced in April 2018). The Church first established a presence in South America in Argentina in 1925. The Church experienced rapid membership growth during most years in the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s, followed by moderate membership growth in the 1990s and slow membership growth since the 2000s. Today, there are nearly 459,000 members, 14 missions, 77 stakes, 29 districts, and 756 official congregations (485 wards, 271 branches) in Argentina. Thus far in 2018, membership has increased by 1.48%. If this rate of membership growth is maintained for the remainder of 2018, church membership for the year will increase by 1.97% - the highest annual percentage membership growth reported by the Church in Argentina since 2014. For more Church statistical data for Argentina, click here.

The Church organized its first stake in Mendoza in 1972. The Argentina Mendoza Mission was organized in 1990. There are now four stakes in the Mendoza metropolitan area. The new temple will likely service eight stakes and two districts in Mendoza and San Juan Provinces. 

Salvador Brazil Temple
The Salvador Brazil Temple will be the Church's eleventh temple to be built in Brazil after the São Paulo Brazil Temple (dedicated in 1978), Recife Brazil Temple (dedicated in 2000), Porto Alegre Brazil Temple (dedicated in 2000), Campinas Brazil Temple (dedicated in 2002), Curitiba Brazil Temple (dedicated in 2008), Manaus Brazil Temple (dedicated in 2012), Fortaleza Brazil Temple (announced in 2009 and currently under construction), Rio de Janeiro Brazil Temple (announced in 2013 and currently under construction), Belém Brazil Temple (announced in 2016), and the Brasília Brazil Temple (announced in 2017). The Church first established a presence in Brazil in 1928. Slow membership growth occurred until the late 1950s, whereas rapid membership growth occurred most years between 1957 and the late 1990s. Slow-to-moderate membership growth has occurred since the early 2000s. Today there are 1.39 million members, 35 missions, 271 stakes, 38 districts, and 2,110 official congregations (1,689 wards, 421 branches) in Brazil. For more Church statistical data for Brazil, click here.

The Church created the Brazil Salvador Mission in 1990 and organized its first stake in Salvador in 1992. A second mission in Salvador was created in 1994. Today the Church operates four stakes in Salvador. The new temple will likely service 13 stakes and 4 districts in Bahia, Sergipe, and extreme western Pernambuco States.

Yuba City California Temple
The Yuba City California Temple will be the Church's eighth temple to be built in California after the Los Angeles California Temple (dedicated in 1956), Oakland California Temple (dedicated in 1964), San Diego California Temple (dedicated in 1993), Fresno California Temple (dedicated in 2000), Redlands California Temple (dedicated in 2003), Newport Beach California Temple (dedicated in 2005), and Sacramento California Temple (dedicated in 2006). The Church in California reported steady membership growth during the twentieth century until the late 1980s. For the past 30 years, the Church has experienced extremely slow or stagnant membership growth in state as membership has increased from 716,000 in 1989 to more than 760,000 in October 2018. During the past five years, membership has decreased by approximately 20,000 primarily due to members moving away from the state to other areas of the United States. For more Church statistical data for California, click here.

The announcement to build a temple in Yuba City came as a complete surprise to me. Yuba City is a one-hour drive from the Sacramento California Temple. Additionally, the new temple appears likely to only service five or six stakes from Redding on the north to Quincy on the east. The last time a new stake was organized in this area was in 1979. None of stakes in the area appear close to dividing to organize new stakes. The Church has reported slight decreases in the total number of wards and branches in this area within the past decade.

Phnom Penh Cambodia Temple
The Phnom Penh Cambodia Temple is the Church's first temple to be announced for Cambodia and the second temple to ever be announced for mainland Southeast Asia after the Bangkok Thailand Temple (announced in 2015). The Church organized its first branch in Cambodia in Phnom Penh in 1994 and created the Cambodia Phnom Pehn Mission in 1997. Rapid membership growth occurred until the mid-2000s followed by moderate or slow membership growth thereafter primarily due to mission leadership emphasis on strengthening local leadership in Phnom Penh and the establishment of stakes and additional districts. The first two stakes were organized on the same weekend in 2014. The Church reports an official ward or branch in seven cities. Prior to the announcement, Cambodia was the country with the seventh most members without a temple. Today there are more than 14,600 members, one mission, two stakes, four districts, and 29 official congregations (10 wards, 19 branches) in Cambodia. Thus far in 2018, membership has increased by 2.41%. If this rate of membership growth is maintained for the remainder of 2018, church membership for the year will increase by 3.22% - the second slowest annual percentage membership growth ever reported by the Church in Cambodia. For more Church statistical data for Cambodia, click here.

The announcement of the Phnom Penh Cambodia Temple also came as a surprise to me since the Church recently announced the nearby Bangkok Thailand Temple (which has yet to begin construction). A recent rendering of the Bangkok Thailand Temple revealed that the planned design is for a temple among the largest temples ever built by the Church on the Afro-Eurasian landmass with 44,405 square feet of floor area. The new temple will likely include two stakes and six districts located in Cambodia and Vietnam. Cambodia is now the country with the most recent Church establishment that has had a temple announced.

Praia Cape Verde Temple
The Praia Cape Verde Temple will be the Church's first temple ever built in Cape Verde - an island archipelago nation off the West African coast near Senegal. The Church organized its first branch in Cape Verde in 1989 and created the Cape Verde Praia Mission in 2002. The Church reported rapid membership growth during the early and mid 1990s, moderate membership growth in the late 1990s, rapid membership growth in the early 2000s, slow membership growth in the mid and late 2000s, rapid membership growth in the early 2010s, and moderate membership growth in the mid-2010s. Prior to the announcement, Cape Verde was the country with the eighth most members without a temple. Today there are 14,700 members, one mission, three stakes, two districts, and 42 official congregations (24 wards, 18 branches). Thus far in 2018, membership has increased by 3.48%. If this rate of membership growth is maintained for the remainder of 2018, church membership for the year will increase by 4.6% - the slowest annual percentage membership growth rate since 2010. For more statistical data on the Church in Cape Verde, click here.

Cape Verde has stood as an outlier as rapid growth occurred during the early and mid 2010s primarily after a mission president focused on leadership development at a time when there were only 18 branches and no stakes in the country. Although growth has decelerated in the last few years, the Church has risen to prominence in the country and current membership constitutes 2.5% of the national population - the highest percentage of members of any country in Africa, Europe, or Asia. The new temple will likely service only the three stakes and two districts in Cape Verde although the two mission branches in Senegal may be assigned to the temple due to close geographical proximity. Isolated location appears to be the primary factor for the announcement of the new temple since the nearest planned temples to Cape Verde are located in Abidjan, Cote d'Ivoire and Lisbon, Portugal. 

Yigo Guam Temple
The Yigo Guam Temple is the Church's first temple to ever been announced for the region of Micronesia where the Church has experienced significant growth in the last 40 years. Although the Church reports only one stake on Guam with four wards (additional congregations assigned to the stake are located in the Northern Mariana Islands, Palau, and Yap), most neighboring countries report significantly more congregations. The Church numbers among the largest Christian denominations in several Micronesian nations that will likely be assigned to the new temple. The Church has maintained a presence in Guam since World War II and organized the Guam Micronesia Mission in 1980. The Church in Guam has experienced slow growth and currently reports approximately 2,500 members. The first and only stake on Guam was created in 2010. However, other nearby nations that appear likely to be assigned to the temple report significantly larger numbers of members. For example, at year-end 2017 the Church in the Federated States of Micronesia reported 6,217 members and 22 congregations, the Church in the Marshall Islands reported 6,970 members and 12 congregations, and the Church in Kiribati reported 19,690 members and 30 congregations. Altogether, the new temple will likely service members who live in Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Palau, the Federated States of Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, and Nauru where there is a combined total of 36,000 members. The new temple will likely include six stakes and four districts in the Micronesian sub-region of Oceania. The decision to build the new temple on Guam instead of other Micronesian nations with significantly more members appears attributed to Guam's international accessibility, comparatively large population in the region, and availability of land at a sufficiently high elevation above sea level.

Puebla Mexico Temple
The Puebla Mexico Temple will be the Church's fourteenth temple in Mexico after the Mexico City Mexico Temple (dedicated in 1983), Colonia Juárez Chihuahua Mexico Temple (dedicated in 1999), Ciudad Juárez Mexico Temple (dedicated in 2000), Hermosillo Sonora Mexico Temple (dedicated in 2000), Oaxaca Mexico Temple (dedicated in 2000), Tuxtla Gutiérrez Mexico Temple (dedicated in 2000), Tampico Mexico Temple (dedicated in 2000), Villahermosa Mexico Temple (dedicated in 2000), Mérida Mexico Temple (dedicated in 2000), Veracruz Mexico Temple (dedicated in 2000), Guadalajara Mexico Temple (dedicated in 2001), Monterrey Mexico Temple (dedicated in 2002), and Tijuana Mexico Temple (dedicated in 2015). The Church has had a presence in Mexico since the 1870s although significant growth did not occur until the 1960s. Rapid membership growth occurred between 1960 and the late 1980s, followed by moderate or slow membership growth thereafter. Today the Church in Mexico reports 1.45 million members, 32 missions, 221 stakes, 45 districts, and 1,926 congregations (1,440 wards, 486 branches). The Church in Mexico has undergone a significant consolidation of smaller congregations and stakes to better utilize meetinghouse space, establish stronger leadership, and create congregations with more active members. As a result, the number of congregations has decreased by nearly 100 since early 2017. However, the Church in Puebla State has not experienced noticeable decline in the number of congregations. Instead, the Church in Puebla State has had one new stake organized and the establishment of several new wards and branches during this time.

The Church organized its first stake in Puebla in 1975. A mission was created in Puebla in 1988 followed by a second mission based in the city in 2012. The new temple will likely service 14 stakes and three districts in Puebla State. Puebla was previously one of the cities in the world with the most stakes without its own temple.

Auckland New Zealand Temple
The Auckland New Zealand Temple will be the Church's second temple in New Zealand after the Hamilton New Zealand Temple was dedicated in 1958. The Church has maintained a presence in New Zealand since 1854. Growth has primarily occurred among Pacific Islanders who live in the country, particularly the native Maori population. For example, half of self-identified Latter-day Saints on the 2006 census described their ethnicity as Maori. The Church in New Zealand has generally experienced slow growth throughout its history punctuated with brief periods of rapid or moderate growth. The Church in New Zealand currently reports more than 114,000 members, three missions, 30 stakes, two districts, and 226 official congregations (174 wards, 52 branches).

The Church organized its first stake in Auckland in 1958. There are now 13 stakes in the Auckland metropolitan area. The new temple will likely service 15 stakes in the Auckland area and in Northland. Auckland was previously one of the cities in the world with the most stakes without its own temple.

Lagos Nigeria Temple
The Lagos Nigeria Temple will be the Church's second temple in Nigeria after the Aba Nigeria Temple (dedicated in 2005). The Church in Nigeria has experienced moderate to rapid growth for its entire 40 year history since the first branch was created in 1978. The Church in Nigeria currently reports nearly 174,000 members, seven missions, 53 stakes, 16 districts, and 630 official congregations (378 wards, 252 branches). No other country had only one temple with as many stakes and congregations as Nigeria prior to today's announcement. Additionally, a total of 30 new stakes have been organized in Nigeria just within the past five years. There are another 10 or so stakes that appear likely to be organized within the immediate future. Thus far in 2018, membership has increased by 6.26%. If this rate of membership growth is maintained for the remainder of 2018, church membership for the year will increase by 8.35% - the highest annual percentage membership growth reported by the Church in Nigeria since 2015. For more statistical data on the Church in Nigeria, click here.

The Church has maintained a presence in Lagos since 1979. A mission was organized in Lagos in 1980 and the first stake in the city was created in 1997. Rapid growth has occurred in Lagos during the past 15 years as the number of stakes reached two in 2005, three in 2011, five in 2015, and six in 2018. The new temple will likely service 20 stakes and four districts in Nigeria, and one stake in Benin.

Davao Philippines Temple
The Davao Philippines Temple will be the Church's sixth temple in the Philippines after the Manila Philippines Temple (dedicated in 1984), Cebu City Philippines Temple (dedicated in 2010), Urdaneta Philippines Temple (announced in 2010), Greater Manila Philippines Temple (announced in 2017), and the Cagayan de Oro Philippines Temple (announced in April 2018). The Church began missionary efforts in the Philippines in 1961. The first mission in the country was created in 1967. Rapid membership growth occurred until the mid-1990s, followed by moderate or slow growth thereafter. Currently the Church in the Philippines reports more than 780,000 members, 22 missions, 104 stakes, 71 districts, and 1,227 official congregations (671 wards, 556 branches). Thus far in 2018, membership has increased by 1.91%. If this rate of membership growth is maintained for the remainder of 2018, church membership for the year will increase by 2.54% - approximately the annual membership growth rate for the Philippines since 2015. For more statistical data on the Church in the Philippines, click here.

The Church appeared to create its first branch in Davao in 1968. The Philippines Davao Mission was organized in 1977 and the first stake in the city was created in 1981. There are currently three stakes in Davao. The new temple will likely serve six stakes and eight districts in southern Mindanao. The decision to announce a temple for Davao was also unexpected given the announcement of a temple in Cagayan de Oro just six months earlier. As a result, this marks the first time in Church history that the Church has announced two temples for the same island within so short a period of time. Also, the Church has never had two announced temples located on the same island where no temples have been previously constructed.

San Juan Puerto Rico Temple
The San Juan Puerto Rico Temple will be the Church's first temple in Puerto Rico. The Church organized its first branch in this United States territory in 1955. The Puerto Rico San Juan Mission was created in 1979 and the first stake was created in 1980. Rapid membership growth occurred in the 1980s followed by slow membership growth in the 1990s, membership decline in the early 2000s, and slow or stagnant membership growth since the late 2000s. Today there are over 23,000 members, one mission, five stakes, and 40 official congregations (28 wards, 12 branches) in Puerto Rico. The new temple will likely include the five stakes on Puerto Rico as well as two districts in the Lesser Antilles. Puerto Rico was previously the country/territory with the second most members without a temple.

Washington County Utah Temple
The Washington County Utah Temple will be the 20th temple to be built in Utah after the St. George Utah Temple (dedicated in 1877), Logan Utah Temple (dedicated in 1884), Manti Utah Temple (dedicated in 1888), Salt Lake Temple (dedicated in 1893), Ogden Utah Temple (dedicated in 1972), Provo Utah Temple (dedicated in 1972), Jordan River Utah Temple (dedicated in 1981), Bountiful Utah Temple (dedicated in 1995), Mount Timpanogos Utah Temple (dedicated in 1996), Vernal Utah Temple (dedicated in 1997), Monticello Utah Temple (dedicated in 1998), Draper Utah Temple (dedicated in 2009), Oquirrh Mountain Utah Temple (dedicated in 2009), Brigham City Utah Temple (dedicated in 2012), Payson Utah Temple (dedicated in 2015), Cedar City Utah Temple (dedicated in 2017), Saratoga Springs Utah Temple (announced in 2017), and Layton Utah Temple (announced in April 2018). The new temple will be the second temple to be built in Washington County after the St. George Utah Temple - the oldest operating temple that remains in possession by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The precise name and location of the new temple remains unknown although likely locations for the new temple include Washington and Santa Clara. The Church has experienced rapid growth in the St. George metropolitan area for many years. Recently, the Church has added an average of one new stake per year in the St. George metropolitan area. There are 28 stakes within the greater St. George metropolitan area.


Chris said...

I served my mission in the Yuba City area! We've been talking about a Temple for a long time there.

Eduardo said...

Redding will save an hour plus to arrive at sessions. Northern California still has huge distances between temples, but much fewer people, true.
Great to see California showing some active growth. Mexico, too!
I think La Paz or one of the Cabos would be justified for Baja California South, based on numbers and distance.
Now we look for 300 overall!
West Virginia needs one, as well as Arkansas. Nothing between NH and VT and ME. Or Wisconsin?

Cody Edwards said...

Happy for all those that are receiving temples. Like anyone else that lives in an area without a temple nearby, I would love to see one in our area too. The Missoula, MT area has a long drive to either Spokane, WA or Rexburg & Idaho Falls, ID. (4 to 4.5 hours each way from our stake center in the Bitterroot Valley). But ... there's always next conference! :)

Christopher Nicholson said...

Here are a couple excerpts from a Church News article on Cambodia last week that you might find interesting.

"One of the biggest reasons Church members in Cambodia become inactive after baptism is due to the difficulty and cost of getting to Church. Issues of transportation are a common factor, President Lewis said, but as the country slowly improves its infrastructure and as members learn to serve one another, the Church will only continue to grow."

"In 2014, the first two stakes were established in the country, and, President Lewis said, it won’t be long before there is a third."
(The article is from last week, but it's already been updated with a section about the temple announcement.)

ScottS said...

I looked up the past announcements and not only is this the most announced in a day, this was the most temples announced in a month.

Eric S. said...

Official confirmation of the Abidjan Temple groundbreaking next month posted on the Ghana Church Newsroom page four days ago.

Ohhappydane33 said...

Yuba City might also include stakes in north suburban Sacramento including perhaps Antelope, Lincoln, Rocklin and Roseville.

Eduardo said...

Thanks HappyD. I lived 8 years in Cali and I have a lot of family there. Two nephews are going to Quetzaltenango and DF SE (Mexico) soon. A sister from my ward is going to Fresno. Exciting times.

Tyler Alley said...

Do you think the two-hour church announcement contributes significantly in reducing costs, which helps enable this accelerated temple construction?

David Todd said...

Originally I thought it meant that in growing areas more wards can share the same building, but then it was emphasized to have the wards meet as early in the day as possible, so I don't know.

Anonymous said...

@DavidTodd, I had the same thoughts, but also think many buildings may have the capacity for an additional ward as needed. I guess we’ll see.

I wonder if President Nelson’s comment also implies an earlier start time for the first ward in multi-ward buildings. I’d love to see the earliest ward start at 8:00 or 8:30a rather than 9 or 10, but that may just be me.

Anonymous said...

@Ohhappydane33, from looking closer at ldsmaps, I’m guessing Lincoln and Auburn stakes are more likely than Antelope, Roseville, or Rocklin (30 mins to Sac temple, 1 hour to YC). I guess we’ll see. There could even be another stake or two created in the region in the next 5 years due to decent amount of homebuilding. Will be fun to watch.

James said...

@Tyler Alley, while reduced costs of operating meetinghouses will surely play into the Church's ability to expand temples in the future, I know (from my study on the matter) that the Church always creates a budget for each year at the end of the previous year, in conjunction with the annual meeting of the Council on the Disposition of the Tithes. The reason the Church can now stay out of debt is because of adherence to a strict budget. In late April 2017, Elder Larry Y. Wilson, who serves as the Executive Director of the Church's Temple Department, had mentioned that a list of 80 temple locations were under active consideration for a temple announcement within the 15 years following that statement. So if the Church had a view to announce 80 temples within a 15-year period, I have no doubt that the Church would reserve in the budgetary plans for 2017 and 2018 money for temple construction.

If I am correct, and that is what has occurred, then the main reason that no temples were announced between the April 2017 General Conference and the first General Conference over which President Nelson presided last April was simply because President Monson's declining health did not let him take as much action on temple announcements as would have otherwise been possible.

And it has been my understanding (from things I have read and heard said from Church leaders) that the Church never announces temples anywhere unless there are sufficient funds laid aside in advance to construct and operate the temples that are announced. That said, the Church's plans to reduce Church services by one hour each week will no doubt cut operating costs and thus enable more funds to be available for temples in the future.

@David Todd, the intent may be both things you mentioned: to allow more wards to share the same building (which would further cut operating costs) and to enable wards to meet earlier. As I understand it, the cost of operating any building increases with the length of time that building resources are used. What that means in terms of the specific way this will affect Church block meeting times and how many wards meet in a building may remain to be seen.

But the Church did provide a look at a few different scheduling scenarios. The first shows what to do if 3 or more wards share a building (by having those wards do the complete 2-hour block one after another). A second shows what can be done if two congregations share a building (which would likely apply to my ward and the one other ward meeting in our chapel). And a third option presents a look at how smaller congregations could share the "second hour" of Church, with the first congregation having Sacrament Meeting before the shared hour, and the second having Sacrament Meeting after that shared hour.

James said...

The material I have read seems to indicate that any changes to what has been the standard schedule for chapels around the world will be based on local needs as determined through the discretion of local leadership. Additionally, however, after General Conference last April, the Church released two different sets of FAQs about the changes that were announced. For that reason, if any further clarification is needed to deal with unclear issues, I am sure Church leaders will release another set of FAQs on this change to the 2-hour block.

And finally, just an observation on future temple districts: While there are some clear indicators as far as which units may go to which temples, I for one am most grateful that the determination of the size and composition of each new temple district is one made by general Church leaders. It seems that many of the 31 or 32 temples that have not yet begun construction, along with the 11 others in various stages of construction, could easily split the districts of currently operating temples roughly in half. And given, as one example, that the current temple districts in Manila and Cebu City Philippines will look entirely different after the temples in Urdaneta, Muntinlupa City, Cagayan de Oro, and Davao are built and dedicated, then many of the other announced temples will likely have a similar effect on existing districts, perhaps to an extent which we cannot currently foresee. Hope these insights are helpful to everyone who reads them.

Cory said...

Most meetinghouses with three wards will probably follow a 9:00, 10:30 and 12:00 Schedule. Here is a link to the FAQ document about meetinghouse schedules:

Although the document only outlines the suggested schedules for meetinghouses that have 3 wards, the document title refers to four wards occupying a meeting house. Currently only a few meetinghouses have four wards meeting in them. Usually it is common in, but not limited to, places with high membership concentrations and new housing developments. Currently, eastern St. George and Washington City, Utah have a number of meetinghouses with a four ward configuration. Often this situation was is not ideal and the wards are usually waiting for a new meetinghouse to be organized. With these changes, I expect that the meetinghouse construction will slow in places like Utah, Arizona, and other parts of the United States where four wards to a building is more feasible, due to close distances and a high amount of members owning cars. The meetinghouse schedule will probably look like this:
8:30, 10:00, 12:30, and 2:00.

2:00 pm church still gets over at 4:00, the same time that 1:00 church currently gets out. It all depends on whether the church prioritizes earlier schedules or high capacity meetinghouses. I suppose the main obstacle would be bishops having to share offices or having to convert classrooms into a bishop offices. Perhaps newer designs will feature 4 offices.

In some parts of the World, some church buildings could be built smaller. I served my mission in a city which had its two wards meet at 9:00 and 1:00 because they could not overlap, due to Sunday school and primary being held in the chapel. Now, the small building could have the capacity of three wards if they follow the Nonoverlapping schedule referred to on the document: 8:30, 11:00 and 1:30.

That being said, I hope the church doesn't become austere in meetinghouse construction. In nations were driving is a luxury and transportation takes up a more of a percentage of income, it is important to have accessible meetinghouses.

Cory said...

The Sacramento Bee, when reporting about the Yuba City Temple, mentioned: "Yuba City, a town whose origin is steeped in the legacy of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"

I guess they consider Samuel Brannan one of the founders of Yuba City. They have a city park named after him. He was a leader of the group of saints that immigrated west on the Ship Brooklyn that sailed around South America and docked in San Francisco. He was involved in the California 1849 gold rush and settled in California. He was eventually excommunicated from the Church.

I wonder if that history had any effect on choosing Yuba City as a site for a temple.

Anonymous said...

May even look like this in some places: 8:30, 10:00, 11:30, 1:00 (and maybe even 2:30 at times).

Anonymous said...

Check out page 30 of this pdf. Sacramento and Gridley Stake were organized the same weekend in 1934 as the first two northern ca stakes north of San Francisco. The Yuba City and Chico Stakes split from Gridley about 40 years ago.

Unknown said...

I think that's up to your stake president. Our ward building in Gilbert, AZ start at 8 am. I live the 8 am start time.

John Pack Lambert said...

There was in about 1908 a mass migration of a group of Latter-day Saints from Idaho to a farming area just south of Gridley. It is one of the last places that was settled by Latter-day Saints moving there as a group. This gives me hope Gilmer, Texas will soon get a temple. Enoch and another town near it were both settled as places for the saints in the Southern States mission in the 1890s. Those towns no longer exist, but Gilmer has one of the highest numbers of Latter-day Saints per capita in east Texas.

Bkfarnbachjourneys said...

One thing which may prevent smaller buildings is the fact that all Primary class times are at the same time. In many buildings today, Junior Primary and Senior Primary overlap the same rooms because their classes occur at different times. Now each will need its own class or more ages would need to be combined.

Deivisas said...

Primary can still be split into two groups: "Note: If a Primary is large enough to separate into junior and senior Primary, the schedule above can be reversed for half of the children and times adjusted as needed. Junior Primary may begin with singing time while senior Primary begins with classes—or vice versa." (Question 8 located on page 4: )

Unknown said...

The new schedule does elimanate the gospel principals class. In some wards this will be a plus. I do think some wards wouldbe helped by having multiple gospel doctrine classes but they should not let one be where new members are shunted.

The comment about early meetings makes me think that the new schedule will not be used to create more wards in some buildings. It will probably in some cases but not in many. More so in Utah, Idaho and Arizona than anywhere else.
In California where at times some buildings have been built to have 8 wards the decline in the number of units suggests the Church will probably not need to redo building usage. I am thinking the new schedule will make it so the schedule my grandparents ward had of 4 to 7 church will not happen again.

Unknown said...

One thing that sometimes happens is buildings need to be renovated and rebuilt. The new schedule will help in such cases have a lot easier to use schedules.

James Anderson said...

Yes, there are some rather old ones that have inefficient HVAC and older fixtures especially in Utah and close by. One I know of is already having problems, they have an old boiler from when it was built and is larger than buildings built since the mid 69s, it having been built in the 1950s.

They could close those for a time and if they run wards every 90 minutes they could run five or even six easily in other buildings in the short term.

L. Chris Jones said...

A few years ago I was in a building in Idaho Falls that had two wards one at 9:00 and one at 1:00. The parking lot was small so the wards could not over lap.

L. Chris Jones said...

Could primary do the same as adults. switch sharing time and class every other week. Between Junior and senior primary?

James Anderson said...

Primary, likely not, as they get close to the same time as adults in each half every month. Also it is better for younger children to get the lessons in smaller bites than a full 50-minute lesson would do.

But they also get something more than adults or youth will get, music. A number of bishops are already doing away with choirs, musical numbers, and intermediate hymns, misinterpreting the instructions everyone got that day about that aspect of sacrament meeting and other meetings. The instructionsm however, did recognize known challenges in ward music, but did not say don't do church music outside opening, sacrament, and closing hymns.

twinnumerouno said...

My bishop said we may need to do away with intermediate hymns, but he wants to still keep the choir performance on high council Sunday. (He is actually a member of the choir but frequently does not make it to practice due to his bishop duties.)

James Anderson said...

An intermediate hymn usually takes about three minutes to sing through. On the accompaniment CDs, the longest hymns are The Spirit of God and I Believe in Christ. Most come in between two and three minutes, and a few somewhat less. There are also a few, but not many, over 4 minutes.

So we may be able to lessen the burden on speakers by having them speak a couple minutes less but that is not noticeable by an average congregation, nor is the time it takes to sing a hymn, the only time the time a hymn is taken to be sung is noticed is when the time does not match up one way or the other with the time it take the priesthood to break the bread for the sacrament.

twinnumerouno said...

James A., I have the Hymns downloaded onto my computer, and your post got me curious, so I pulled up Windows Media Player and discovered I can sort the hymns by length. (If this post is more detailed than people care to read, I apologize. Obviously not everyone has the same interest in music that I do.)

First, the details did not seems to match what you said. Were you using a CD with just a selection of hymns? WMP on my computer lists The Spirit of God as the 4th longest, at 5:55 (with Though Deepening Trials at 7:22 as the longest, and A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief and How Firm a Foundation, both over 6 minutes, as #2 and #3), and I Believe in Christ as the 12th longest, at 4:59; #5 - 11 include Dear to the Heart of the Shepherd, The Wintry Day Descending to its Close and Nearer My God to Thee, among others (a couple of the sacrament hymns take the 10 and 11 spots, as just barely longer than I Believe in Christ). Obviously, of course, the length depends on how many verses are used and how fast they are played.

I also counted and found 35 hymns that are longer than 4 minutes, that's just over 10% of the hymns in the current hymnal (24 of those 35 are more than 4 and less than 5 minutes). Perhaps we could keep intermediate hymns if we specify that it has to be a short one, or just one or two verses. (I think you are correct that the average length is between 2-3 minutes; it appears to me that the middle of the sorted list is at about the 2:45 length. We actually have two hymns that are less than 1 minute, # 154 and 160 which are both hymns that I doubt many members know.)

James Anderson said...

So I was off on my timings for those longer ones and I didn't know the one ran seven minutes. But knowing which one it is reasonable. These are all taken at tempos exactly in the middle the printed tempo range printed at the top of each hymn so actual running time in a given meeting may vary depending on who is conducting, etc.

James said...

L. Chris Jones, in the FAQs (which were among the materials I posted from the Newsroom website in a previous comment, the material specifically says "sharing time is discontinued". Primary will now just consist of singing time and class time. Alternating every two weeks like the adults do would be impractical for the Primary because children that age need consistency, or it tends to get too confusing. I hope that, among other things, the 2-hour block as it will start next year will help eliminate congestion in the hallways between meetings. I am grateful that, in the midst of this change, discretion of particulars (such as having a combined Junior and Senior Primary in a single ward, or having two wards in the same building hold the Primary hour together when needed) is left up to local leaders. It will be interesting to see what occurs with buildings such as where my ward meets. As I have previously mentioned, we only have one other ward in our building, which is on the smaller side. They might do 9:00 AM and 11:30 AM, which would allow Church services to conclude before 2:00 PM. Right now, we do 9:00 AM and 1:00 PM.

twinnumerouno said...

James A., I hope my post did not come across as critical. If it did I apologize.

My chapel has two wards, which have been at 9 and 11 for as long as I've been here (12 years), alternating schedules every year (my ward currently meets at 11). It has been announced that next year the other ward will still meet at 11, but mine will change to 9:30.