Saturday, October 5, 2019

Eight New Temples Announced - Analysis

*First off, as a blogger and researcher who has tracked Church growth for 17 years, President Russell M. Nelson's unpredictability with making announcements definitely keeps me on my toes... We will see if there are more Church-growth related announcements tomorrow. I will do my best to be available to post if additional announcements are made.*

This evening, President Russell M. Nelson announced plans to construct eight new temples. This is the first time that the Church has ever announced plans to construct new temples in the women's session of General Conference. With today's announcement, there will be 217 temples worldwide (166 dedicated, 51 announced or under construction). Of the eight new temples announced today, two were in countries where no temples operate or have been announced (Papua New Guinea and Sierra Leone) and one was in a state in the United States that has never had a temple announced (Arkansas). See below for analysis regarding each of these temple announcements:

Freetown Sierra Leone Temple
Freetown is the capital and most populous city in Sierra Leone. The Church organized its first branch in Sierra Leone in 1988, and organized the first mission in 2007 from a division of the Ghana Accra Mission. The Church in Sierra Leone has experienced moderate to rapid growth since its establishment approximately three decades ago. The first stake in Sierra Leone was organized in 2012 in Freetown. Today, there are six stakes and three districts in the country. Sierra Leone is also the country on mainland Sub-Saharan Africa with the highest percentage of Latter-day Saints in the population (approximately 0.34%). Sierra Leone is also the country in Sub-Saharan Africa with the lowest percentage of Christians (21%) with a mission headquartered in the country, and has the city with the highest percentage of Latter-day Saints in the general population among cities on the Afro-Eurasian landmass with 100,000 or more people (Bo is estimated at 3.5% Latter-day Saint). The new temple will also likely service members who live in neighboring African nations where no temples operate, such as Liberia (five stakes and one district), Senegal (two branches and one member group), and Guinea (one branch). Senior missionaries serving in the country have reported unprecedented interest and engagement from local members in temple and family history work. Sierra Leone currently pertains to the Accra Ghana Temple district. Prior to today's announcement, Sierra Leone was the country with the second most members without a temple (per year-end 2018 figures). There were 21,286 members as of year-end 2018. Member activity and convert retention rates in Sierra Leone have been moderate during the past 5-8 years, and were low prior to that time. Sierra Leone's population was most recently estimated at 6.3 million. The new temple will likely be a small temple under 25,000 square feet given recent trends with temple construction in Africa.

Orem Utah Temple
The Church announced its 22nd temple in Utah this evening. The new temple in Orem was likely announced to reduce overcrowding in neighboring temples in Provo and American Fork. The new temple will likely service 20-30 stakes in Orem and Lindon. Utah temples are among the busiest in the Church, and additional temples have been regularly announced to meet demand for temple attendance. There are over 2.1 million members of the Church in Utah. Given recent trends in temple construction in Utah, the Orem Utah Temple is likely to be a moderately-sized temple between 40,000 and 70,000 square feet.

Port Moresby Papua New Guinea Temple
Papua New Guinea has held the position as the country with the most Latter-day Saints without a temple since 2018 when a temple was announced for Nicaragua. The Church in Papua New Guinea has experienced moderate growth overall since its initial establishment in 1979. The first Papuan stake was organized in 1995 in Port Moresby and only one additional stake has since been organized (Daru in 2011). However, significant proliferation of districts has occurred in the past 20 years from two to 12. The Church in Papua New Guinea faces many significant challenges in regards to poverty, illiteracy, tribalism, geographical isolation, and language barriers. The greatest success with growth and high member activity and convert retention has occurred in Western Province, whereas the greatest challenges in member activity and leadership development have appeared to occur in Port Moresby (where the Church still has only one stake despite efforts for many years to organize more stakes). Nevertheless, senior missionaries report plans for additional districts to become stakes in the near future. Only 0.40% of the national population is a Latter-day Saint - one of the lowest percentages in Oceania. There are 28,249 Latter-day Saints in Papua New Guinea. Papua New Guinea's population was most recently estimated at seven million. The new temple may also service members in the Solomon Islands (one district) given similarities with language and geographical proximity. The new temple will likely be a small temple under 20,000 square feet given recent trends in temple construction. Also, it is likely that the new temple will include patron housing to accommodate members who travel long distances to reach the temple.

Bentonville Arkansas Temple
Northwestern Arkansas has been one of my top predictions for a new temple for over a decade due to a growing and sizable concentration of Latter-day Saints far from the nearest temple (the Rogers metropolitan area is divided between the Kansas City Missouri Temple and the Oklahoma City Oklahoma Temple). The new temple is the Church's first temple in Arkansas. Prior to today's announcement, Arkansas was the state with the third most Latter-day Saints without a temple (after Kansas and New Jersey). The Church has reported slow to moderate growth in Arkansas as a whole within the past 30 years albeit the percentage of Latter-day Saints in the population has doubled during this time to 1.05% as of 2018. Of the three stakes headquartered in extreme northwestern Arkansas, two have been organized since 2005. The new temple will likely service members from four stakes in Arkansas and five stakes in southern Missouri. The new temple appears likely to be a small-to-moderate size temple between 20,00 and 50,000 square feet given recent trends in temple construction in areas of the United States that service similarly-sized numbers of Latter-day Saints.

Bacolod Philippines Temple
The Church announced its seventh temple for the Philippines in Bacolod. Bacolod is the most populous city (over 600,000 inhabitants in 2015) on the island of Negros in the Philippines. The new temple is the Church's second temple to be announced for the Visayas region of the Philippines (islands between Luzon and Mindanao) - the first being the Cebu City Philippines Temple which was dedicated in 2010. Of the 101 administrative divisions in the Philippines, Bacolod ranks as the highest for the percentage of government census-reported Latter-day Saints at 0.76% in 2015. The new temple will likely service 12 stakes and five districts on the islands of Negros and Panay. The first branch of the Church in Bacolod was created in 1967, and the first stake in Bacolod was organized in 1981. There are three stakes in the city of Bacolod - the newest of which was created in 2000. The new temple will likely be a small temple under 30,000 square feet given recent trends for temple construction in the region. The Church in the Philippines has experienced significant progress with increases in the number of active members and the maturation of districts into stakes. Today, there are 114 stakes and 63 districts in the Philippines. There were 785,164 members in the Philippines as of year-end 2018 - the fourth highest in the world after the United States, Mexico, and Brazil.

McAllen Texas Temple
Latter-day Saints in extreme southern Texas have hoped for many years to have a temple announced given significant challenges with long distance to the nearest temple in San Antonio, Texas. The new temple will likely include nine stakes and one district in southern Texas and northern Mexico. There are two stakes in McAllen and one stake in Harlingen. Stakes in Laredo (organized in 2018) and Corpus Christi will also likely pertain to the new temple district. The first stake in extreme southern Texas was organized in 1975. The area has historically struggled with low convert retention and member activity rates. Many, if not most, members in the region are Spanish-speaking. The new temple appears likely to be a small temple under 30,000 square feet.

There are now five temples (four dedicated) in Texas. The Church in Texas reported 357,625 members at year-end 2018.

Cobán Guatemala Temple
The Church announced its third temple for Guatemala today. The Cobán Guatemala Temple will likely be a small temple under 20,000 square feet given there are only four stakes and three districts in northern Guatemala. Nevertheless, this area of Guatemala has recently experienced significant progress with growth as evidenced by increases in the number of congregations and the organization of three new stakes within the past four years - including the first two Q'eqchi'-speaking stakes in the Church. Returned missionaries and local members report good member activity rates in many areas, particularly rural ones inhabited by the Q'eqchi' people, whereas more populous urban areas appear to have low activity rates. The new temple will likely also serve neighboring Belize where there are two districts. Historically, the Church in Guatemala has experienced slow membership and congregational growth within the past 20 years albeit there have been significant improvements in increases in number of active members per congregation during this period. There were 277,755 members in Guatemala as of year-end 2018.

Taylorsville Utah Temple
The Church also announced Utah's 23rd temple this evening for Taylorsville. The new temple appears likely to serve 30-40 stakes in West Valley City, Magna, Taylorsville, Kearns, and Murray. This area of the Salt Lake Metropolitan area numbers among the least reached urban areas in regards to proximity to a temple, but it also numbers among urban Utah areas where the Church has reported its largest decreases in the number of wards and branches during the past 15 years. This has appeared primarily driven by active Latter-day Saint families who move away from these older communities in search of newer, larger, and/or less expensive homes. Members in Taylorsville and West Valley City generally attend the Jordan River Utah Temple, Oquirrh Mountain Utah Temple, or Salt Lake Temple.

183 comments:

Ray said...

Wonderful news about the new temples. New Matola Mozambique stake also reported today.

Eduardo said...

I wonder how many languages will be used at Port Morseby Temple, given the huge diversity of languages on that island. Great to see the Arkansas temple for that area.

Matt said...

Eduardo - the Church uses Tok Pisin and Hiri Motu as the two languages for Church meetings. I imagine it will use only these two. No other languages have Church materials translated (with the possible exception of Western Kawaii).

Historia Familiar Valenzuela Escobar said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Historia Familiar Valenzuela Escobar said...

On the announcements of the temples, those of UTHA are not new, the others are super necessary, in several of those places before there was no closer temple.
Bringing the temples closer to the members is vital for them to feel the blessings and comfort more often, now they can visit them more regularly and perhaps, serve to work more closely in their genealogy.
Always what I most expect are the announcements of new temples.
Independent if they are small or large temples, the important thing is that in more remote places there will be a new temple.
Although there is no announcement of another temple in Chile or in Europe, I imagine it will happen sometime.

Thanks for sharing, a hug from Santiago de Chile

L. Chris Jones said...

Has the church ever announced temples in more than one session in the same conference? I know that several have been announced outside of conference at different times throughout the year in past years.

James Anderson said...

Some of the numbers in the post will need to be updated, although some of the numbers are rounded up, they point to more than we knew about anyway.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/october-2019-general-conference-temple-announcement?fbclid=IwAR2A497ZGijlNCn0NMrGcI1-0B9DjZvJ1LPwzVfS2IZLixf1fDFSzHlbODM

Cade Ellsworth said...

L. Chris Jones

If I'm not mistaken, President Hinkley did it when announcing the Nauvoo Temple in a separate session from all the rest announced that year.

twinnumerouno said...

Cade,

I just looked at a spreadsheet I made from data on Rick's temple site. If I have it correct, the Nauvoo temple was the only one announced during the April 1999 conference, though 3 others were announced later in the month.

I made an observation looking through this data that others may find interesting. Actually, Pres. Hinckley as prophet- not counting while he was a counselor under the previous 3 prophets- only announced new temples 6 times in general conference. Apart from the Nauvoo announcement in 1999, the only conference announcements I see during his administration are Oct. 1995 (3 temples), Oct. 1997 (1st 3 small temples), Apr. 2000 (6 temples announced), Oct. 2004 (2 announced), and Oct. 2005 (mention of 2 locations in Salt Lake County for temples, one of which was later identified as Oquirrh Mtn, the other he said would be announced later, which apparently has not yet happened).

In all 79 new temples while he was the prophet, and only 16 of them were at those six conferences- out of 26 conferences in his almost 13-year administration (I am not counting the unannounced SL county one in these totals).

twinnumerouno said...

The announcement of a temple in Bacolod really makes me think of my dad. He was a missionary there sometime in 1967-1968, and he told us that he was one of 4 missionaries covering the whole island. He was always fascinated when I or my brother would tell him how much the church had grown in the Philippines. Four days after Dad's death, ground was broken for the 2nd temple in the Philippines- the Cebu City temple on the island just east of Bacolod- and I was happy to think that he was permitted to attend.

Eduardo said...

Twinnum: that is really great about your dad in the Phillipines and his legacy.
My parents served in the Peace Corps in the mid 1960s in mostly Sierra Leone, mostly Bonthe Island. Although they were not members of the Church of Jesus Christ then, and were nominal good hearted Methodist and Baptist/Congregationalist, I thrill at the growth in that country. Later around 2015 my California nephew served his mission in Sierra Leone. Also I had a boss who was a UN peacekeeper there around 2000 after their awful Civil War.
Our connections to our brothers and sisters worldwide hopefully push us to want to do more, share more, give more.

Eduardo said...

Matt: would using other target languages in Papua New Guinea help our missionary efforts to more Papuans. Are those two languages you mentioned becoming more univeralized among the general populace, by more and more tribes/communities?
Are Papuans being exposed to more English like a lot of the rest of the world? Do Australian and other English speaking businesses expand into Papua New Guinea, or further west into Irian Jaya?
Thanks for the info.

Eduardo said...

I am always fascinated by those who live and serve among "specialty" smaller languages and cultures, like a young man who served in the Chuuk islands in the early 1990s. What other languages does that person go on to learn later? Does the person who has insight into this unique culture follow up with special interest groups and perhaps modern social media?

Unknown said...

I thought it was interesting that many more area authorities were released than new ones called. Also, no new general authority seventies were called (or did I miss something?). Are the quorums being downsized?

Michael Worley said...

Unknown, I believe the pattern is to do more callings in April and more releasings in October.

Chris said...

As was reported here last night by Ray,

The new "Matola Mozambique Stake",

https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=-25.933474,32.448828&z=18&m=google.road&layers=stakecenter&q=Matola%20Mozambique%20Stake&find=stake:2147483

Christopher Nicholson said...

So the Seventies are just going to have drastically reduced manpower for six months?

twinnumerouno said...

It's more in this case, because there were 9 of them aging out. But yes, this is typical, and has happened this way every year for a number of years.

Michael W. Towns, Sr. said...

No. They call a group in April and they are trained before a group of seventies are released in October. There really isn't a reduced manpower.

twinnumerouno said...

Previous reference was to GA 70's, but I think it has also been typical for Area 70s to see massive callings in April, with just a few released (some of whom are those being called as GAs), and only a few called in October, with massive releasings.

twinnumerouno said...

Good point, mormonchess, I hadn't thought of that.

John said...

In our Coordinating Council, the new Area Seventy (Vai Sikahema) was called in April and the old one (Milan Kunz, set to take over as Philadelphia temple president in about a month) was released yesterday. So apparently there's some overlap.

twinnumerouno said...

Next year only 3 GA 70s are turning 70.

John Pack Lambert said...

The mission in Freetown in 2007 was not the first in that country. Back in 1990 or 1991 when the civil war in Liberia broke out that was part of the Freetown Mission. That is why the missionaries in the film "Freetown" were going to Freetown, to meet with their mission President.

Back then it seems the Church would create very small missions to beachhead growth into new areas, while today it seems a goal is to have more balanced ratios of missionaries to mission. If we still fid things like the late 1980s Senegal and Mali would probably each be their own under staffed mission, while today the Abijan and Freetown mission presidents coordinate opening these new countries while giving their Ivorian and Sierra Leonean councilors more duties at the base of the mission while they are away. Of course the number of missions in Africa with African mission presidents has also increased.

John Pack Lambert said...

One of the newly called area seventies is a,Kinshasa resident who used to be president of the Mbayi-Maji program whatever the exact name of that mission is. Of course the Baltimore Maryland Mission also has a Kinshasan as mission President. I believe he is the first African mission president in the US. He may even be the first African descent mission President in the US. Since the only African American mission Presidents to date I know of Ahmad Corbitt and Fred Parker served in the Dominican Republic and Jamaica. I don't consider Marcus Martin's African American. He is an Afro Brazilian who may or may not have US citizenship, but African American is an ethnic designation that is hard to assume. If Barack Obama had not married Michelle I would not count him as African American and even with his being married to Michelle as a child of an African exchange student father and a white mother raised by his white mother and Indonesian step father, it is hard to argue that Obama is ethnically African American.

John Pack Lambert said...

I still can see both Bo and Monrovia getting temples soon. If Cambodia can get a temple announced with 2 stakes and a temple coming to Thailand, so can Liberia with 5 stakes.

John Pack Lambert said...

So Paapua New Guinea is near the low end for Oceania in percentage of Church members yet it is at a higher percentage than Sierra Leone.

John Pack Lambert said...

So 4 years ago there was just 1 stake in the region around Coban? This is significant growth. It also does not seem the Coban Temple lessons the likelyhood Antigua will get a temple.

John Pack Lambert said...

But how many of those languages has the endowment been translated into? With less than 70 languages world wide, it is not many for Papua New Guinea.

John Pack Lambert said...

It is easier to service many languages in the temple than to have one congregation function in multiple languages. However needing temple worthy translators probably mitigates against massive translation projects.

John Pack Lambert said...

There were 2 others announced in that same general priesthood meeting in October 1997. One was Porto Alegre Brazil, and I don't rem er amber the other.

John Pack Lambert said...

No they are not being downsized. This is how it is done. In April general authorities are called. In October some are released. This is also the general pattern for Area Seventies. Some of those released are now mission presidencies, Such as Elder Mblethe and Elder Chatora. Their calls as mission President were announced before April conference eben.

John Pack Lambert said...

No they had an overabundance for the last 6 months. This way the leaving have six months to train the new. However some of the released area 70 have been mission presidents for 3 months, so some at least have not been around for a while.

John Pack Lambert said...

Sometimes there are large numbers of releases in April with the statement they will not be effective until the end of May or so.

I remember when David W. Eka, the first Nigerian stake President, was called as an area seventy the only other man called was John A. Grinceri from Australia. This was the first calling of such after the initial extension of calls as Area Seventies inI believe April 1997.

John Pack Lambert said...

Some get released early due to health issues.

twinnumerouno said...

Yes, Pres. Hinckley also announced temples for Houston Texas and Porto Alegre Brazil in that talk in Priesthood Session on October 4, 1997. I don't know if that was the first announcement or just repeating something that had been announced by letter, as Rick's temple page lists both of those as being announced on Sept. 30, which was the Tuesday before conference.

(In a perhaps parallel case, Pres. Monson announced the Paris temple at the October 2011 conference even though the press had leaked the plans the previous July.)

Ben H said...

My mother-in-law worked in the Jordan River Temple before health caused my in-laws to relocate to Phoenix. They were told that another temple in the valley would come soon. Jordan River is super busy even with the Oquirrh Mountain and Draper temples being built. The Taylorsville Temple will take away a big chunk of that temple district. But there will likely be stakes that currently are assigned to Oquirrh Mountain and Draper that will be reassigned to Jordan River...like some stakes in West Jordan and Sandy. My guess for the site is just off of 61st and Bangerter. There is a huge site mostly being developed for the over 55 community, called Summit View, but not all of it is planned for that use. There are only a handful of other sites in Talorsville, but those are retail sites that need to be re-devolped.

twinnumerouno said...

Good catch, JPL. My earlier figure should be corrected to say that 18 of 79 temples announced during Pres. Hinckley's administration were announced in general conference- regardless of whether those two had been announced by letter, they definitely count as being announced in general conference.

brycen said...

I'm very excited for Papua New Guinea. I've been reading a lot about that country, which features quite a bit in the writing of anthropologist Jared Diamond. It is said to be one of the most culturally diverse places in the world. Large portions of the interior had no contact with the outside world prior to the mid-20th century. There is a lot of potential for growth there once language barriers have been crossed.

I wonder how much of the Church's growth in Bentonville, and northwestern Arkansas is due to that being the headquarters of Walmart. One of the wonders of our age is how much people move around. A large percentage of my ward in New England have lived in Utah at some point, or former ward members moved there. A former bishop moved to Utah, and a former elder's quorum president is now in Idaho. When I moved out here 8 years ago, it was my 4th time moving across the country (unlike many, I never relocated because of a new job).

twinnumerouno said...

It's interesting to read about Papua New Guinea. What I'm finding online is that the country has a population of about 7 million people and at least 820 languages are spoken there- accounting for about 12% of all languages on Earth (another site said 853 but that 12 of them are extinct). Wikipedia says 851, and that there are 4 official languages:

1. Tok Pisin, an English-based Creole, the most frequently used language in business and government, is only spoken by about 120,000 people as a first language, but is well understood by over 50% of the population

2. English is spoken by 1-2% of the population, but also used a lot in business and the main language in post-elementary education

3. Hiri Motu, a pidgin language derived from a more ancient language called Motu- some sites report it as also being based on English but that appears to be an error- this language has been decreasing in importance as the first 2 become more important

4. More recently as a 4th official language, Papua New Guinean sign language, a combination of Tok Pisin, Australian sign language and "home sign" with much local variation

James said...

In April, 10 new GA Seventies were sustained. This last weekend, 9 who are 70 (or will be by the end of this year) were granted emeritus status. So for 2019, the total number of GA Seventies saw a net gain of 1. With the Quorum affiliations for GA Seventies no longer being made public, it may be impossible to quantify how the callings and releases since 2016 have been an overall gain or loss.

As for the area seventies, those released include several who have been mission presidents since July, some who are already or soon will be serving as temple presidents, and almost all area seventies called prior to 2014 (one exception being Elder Kevin J. Worthen, who was sustained in April 2010 and currently serves as president of BYU-Provo).

Also, one of the newly-sustained area seventies, Elder Alfred Kyungu, is serving as such for the second or third time. Hope this information is helpful.

James said...

As an additional note, the releases presented in April that were effective in May in prior years are now apparently effective ASAP after they are presented, especially in cases where any of the outgoing area seventies are incoming mission presidents.

James said...

Unless I am mistaken, the last time a health-related issue led to an early granting of emeritus status was in the case of Andrew W. Peterson, who was paralyzed in a brutal accident while on assignment.

More recently, Elder Bruce A. Carlson was granted emeritus status a couple of years early, but that was due to his being given a military assignment that necessitated his release early.

John Pack Lambert said...

Gene R. Cook was only 66 when he was granted emeritus status in 2007. Elder Peterson died in 2003.

John Pack Lambert said...

Under President Monson there were 4 temples not announced at General Conference not counting Paris France Temple which was leaked by media.

GWA said...

I'd be curious to know if we have ever had so many temples announced, but not yet under construction. On Rick's site there are 37 announced with only 14 under construction. Only 2 have upcoming ground breakings announced, and there will be a max of 3 dedicated before next conference. My guess is that there has never been this many waiting to break ground. I'm also guessing the number will only grow with Pres Nelson, but will at some point reach an equilibrium. Maybe around 50 temples... At some point we will have to reach a point where the numbers being announced balance the number that are having ground breakings. His pace of announcements is around 8-10 each conference. Probably not many times, if ever, we have broken ground for that many in one 6 month period.

John Pack Lambert said...

On the other hand the majority of my branch has lived in Detroit their whole life. This is especially true of many of the converts.

John Pack Lambert said...

If you look 1998-2001 there are almost certainly multiple times when more than 8 temple groundbreaking occurred in 6 months.

twinnumerouno said...

From my spreadsheet, here are the total temple events for those years- not counting
re-dedications:

1998:
27 temples announced
17 groundbreakings (7 of which had been announced in previous years)
2 dedicated

1999:
17 announced
32 groundbreakings
15 dedicated

2000:
6 announced
5 groundbreakings
34 dedicated

2001:
3 announced
4 groundbreakings
7 dedications

I may try later to do a detailed analysis of what the highest number of announced temples has been historically.

twinnumerouno said...

Also, 2 of the 1999 groundbreakings and 1 of the ones in 2000 were for temples announced prior to 1998, if that helps anyone.

Chris said...

Matt, with October Conference concluded and the exciting List of 8 new Temple Sites announced Saturday Evening by Pres. Nelson. Will you be updating your "Potential New Temples" Map with 6 of the 8 being moved from "Potential" to "Announced" List?

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1W60CDwd4qDDMA3tW74z8g-2WxNw&ll=-3.81666561775622e-14%2C0&z=1

Secondly, with the remaining 2 (Orem and Taylorsville Utah) to add also. Will you just replace the "Potential" West Valley City Utah with the newly announced "Taylorsville Utah" in its place. Or will you leave "West Valley City Utah" as future option still available in far future?

Thank you for all your hard work and efforts in keeping us updated on current events.

Chris said...

Has anyone heard any news regarding the new Stake that was going to be organized a week ago in Chiclayo Perú, as was reported in previous post a few weeks ago?

James said...

I'd forgotten about Elder Gene R. Cook's early release. Thanks, JPL!

BryanBaird84 said...

For Texas my guess for next temples would be Fort Worth and Austin.
Would McAllen become the southern most temple in the contential United States or would Fort Lauderdale hold that title?

Chris said...

Fort Lauderdale Florida Temple
26° 04' 10" N

McAllen Texas
approx 26° 11' 00" N

So Fort Lauderdale would still hold that Title, but not by much.

twinnumerouno said...

Ooh, interesting question!

A quick check of latitudes for those two cities is that they're very close- both 26 degrees north of the equator. Fort Lauderdale: 26° 7' 18" McAllen 26° 12' 12"

So Fort Lauderdale is about 5' (5 minutes of latitude) further south- it could be even closer depending on exact locations. The temple is actually in Davie, which is slightly south of Ft. Lauderdale, on the western side of the city.

One minute of latitude is about 1.15 miles- so the Fort Lauderdale temple is probably 5-6 miles further south than the city of McAllen. Not sure if it would be possible for that temple to be that far south. I found a site listing McAllen as last on a list of the 8 most dangerous border towns in America, and says it is 5 miles from the border. If the things this article talks about are still going on, I would say that the temple is not likely to be built close to the border.

https://www.criminaljusticedegreesguide.com/features/the-8-most-dangerous-border-towns-in-america.html

twinnumerouno said...

Interesting how we got different numbers.

twinnumerouno said...

Of course, I didn't put in the exact location of the FL temple, and I suspect you did, Chris.

twinnumerouno said...

If Chris's numbers are right (but the other info I found is correct) then the McAllen temple would have to be built in Reynosa, Mexico to be further south than Fort Lauderdale.

coachodeeps said...

The change to the Young Women both classes and theme is pretty significant.

Did you know...?
The name beehive was first used in the LDS Church's organization for young women in 1913, when a "Beehive Girls" program was organized. In 1920, the YLMIA operated the Beehive House.

In 1943, the beehive was adopted as the class symbol for the youngest class of young women in the church. In 1950, the youngest class was officially given the name of Beehives. Mia Maids comes from YLMIA association. Laurels were Junior Gleeners in 1950, but changed in 1956.

The Young Women Theme was first introduced by Young Women General President Ardeth G. Kapp on Nov. 10, 1985 during a special broadcast. It was updated in 2001 of the addition of four words: "Strengthen home and family." The value of virtue was added in November 2008.

I would if the values are still going to be part of the YW and emphasized. I am Male, but I love those achoring values just like the Scout Law.

coachodeeps said...

My mom told me that in primary she was a Gaynote and then Fire Light and then Merry Hand. This was in the 1950s. I had never heard of these names!

Christopher Nicholson said...

I think the Young Women class names are a good example of why we shouldn't cling to the past for no justifiable reason. They may not have sounded stupid in the 1950s, but they sure did while I was growing up, and in fact I watched the women's session in the hope of finally seeing them discarded. I mean, the YLMIA was discontinued in 1974, for crying out loud, so why "Mia Maids" wasn't changed right then and there is beyond my comprehension.

Not only was my hope met, but President Nelson's surprise temple announcements at the end of the session were quite a blessing for my pettiness :)

Steven Cuff said...

Here are my top 10 picks
April 2020 temples; by % chance
Santa Cruz Bolivia 100
Belo Horizonte Brazil 100
Lubumbashi DRCongo 100
Osaka Japan 100
La Paz Bolivia 100
Jacksonville fl 100
Pachuca Mexico 100
Valparaiso Chile 100
Tacoma wa 100
Maracaibo Venezuela 100

coachodeeps said...

Agreed on the names. I remember the name of Blazers as a boy.

I found the list here on wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_(LDS_Church)
Interesting to see all these Primary names. Never heard of most of ther variations and not sure what some of the refer to.

James Anderson said...

There was even a hymn in the 1948 hymnbook, it was there as a matter of the program being in place even after the discontinuation until the 1985 book was printed, only then was it discarded, never heard it sung.

The title, M I A, We Hail Thee, was hymn 111 in that aforementioned book.

James Anderson said...

Another thing about the hymn mentioned above is that Ruth May Fox, known for writing some hymns/children's songs we still use, wrote the text for that one.

Xavier Raveau said...

Exterior Rendering Released for the Layton Utah Temple

https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/layton-utah-temple/

coachodeeps said...

Wendy and I—along with Elder
@ChristoffDTodd
and his wife, Katherine—are thrilled to have the opportunity to visit Vietnam, Cambodia, Singapore, and Indonesia in mid-November.

MainTour said...

I was a Blazer Boy in Primary!

MainTour said...

Have you ever try to translate Beehives, Mia Maids, Mutual and Laurels into any foreign language? Mia Maids is a purely American made up term.

But I know of some people who are diappointed that they did not rename the Laurels into Priestesses.

Luciano said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Luciano said...

Stake Sao Paulo Brazil Sapopemba,october 27 Will be created.

Chris said...

@Luciano, Will the new "São Paulo Brazil Sapopemba Stake" be split from the "São Paulo Brazil Penha Stake"? The "Ala Sapopemba (Sapopemba Ward)" is currently part of that Stake.

Luciano said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Luciano said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Luciano said...

THe invitation to the special division conference is very good, makes a short history of Sao Paulo Brasil Penha stake.

Chris said...

The President of Kiribati recently visited Church Headquarters, according to the Church's Pacific Newsroom article today.

Eduardo said...

From what I know about Barack Obama as a child, his mother's parents helped raise him quite a bit, and there are at least two fictionalized characters in his biography. This from a Harvard law grad! No worries, politically sensitive ones: I dislike Donaldo Trumposo more than Barry the islander. Our last two presidents have their ways with the truth. I guess all do...

John Pack Lambert said...

32 groung breaking would be 16 between conferences on average. They may even come higher than that.

John Pack Lambert said...

My mom has mentioned being a gay note on many occasions. This was in the 1960s for her.

I know some people dislike the name Mia Maids because they thought it made them sound like "the help".

John Pack Lambert said...

I was too. We also called them blazer scouts but a few years later when renaming occurred learned that this was not their name officially. With wolves, bears and weblows from cub scouts lots of names seemed to work at the time.

John Pack Lambert said...

Those are probably also the people who try to pray to Heavenly Mother.

John Pack Lambert said...

I have to admit I am still waiting for President Nelson to do a major tour of Africa. No president of the Church has ever as president of the Church visited Francophone Africa. I have also noted President Belson has never been to Mexico as Church president.

I am surprised this south-west Asia tour does not include the Phillipines.

James said...

There are as many 3-5 announced temples (in addition to Saratoga Springs Utah and Puebla Mexico) which are almost certain to have groundbreakings before the end of the year. That number increases by another 3-5 when considering additional temples for which a groundbreaking is likely to be held between January 1 of next year and the weekend of the April 2020 General Conference.

Also, your comment above failed to account for what happened during the first part of this year. Between New Year's Day 2019 and the end of June, the Church broke ground for the Urdaneta Philippines, Bangkok Thailand, Pocatello Idaho, Yigo Guam, Praia Cabo Verde, San Juan Puerto Rico, Quito Ecuador and Lima Peru Los Olivos Temples. Unless I have miscounted, that is a total of 8 temples in six months.

And at no other time in Church history has President Nelson been the Lord's prophet, and never has a new Church President ever announced 35 new temples within his first four General Conferences as prophet, with specific locations announced for a majority of that number.

So having 8 or more temples have a groundbreaking within most of any given 6 month period is more likely than not to become the new normal.

James said...

He would never keep adding to the queue of announced temples unless part of his plan involved regular and consistent efforts between each set of announcements to clear the queue, which absolutely appears to be the case.

Johnathan Reese Whiting said...

Anybody remember the "Merry Miss?" Which group of young ladies were they?

Johnathan Reese Whiting said...

@coachodeeps

Elder Christofferson is visiting Vietnam, Singapore, and Indonesia? Scouting out future temple prospects, maybe..?

twinnumerouno said...

That's with Pres. Nelson- also going to Cambodia.

Whizzbang said...

I can see a Temple announcement in either Jakarta or Singapore, I don't know about Vietnam but all those areas have had a LDS presence for decades. How many are active I have no idea but my area is getting a Temple and we have far, far less active than those areas do. We'll see I guess

Eduardo said...

Whizzbang... And your Area is Winnipeg?

James said...

Jonathan, unless the information I found on both the Church website and Wikipedia is in error, Merrie Miss was the designated term for 9-year-old girls.

Whizzbang said...

yep!

Downtownchrisbrown said...

I thought Merrie Miss was for the 11-12 year old girls when they split to have their separate class from the Blazers

John Pack Lambert said...

When I was in primary Merrie Miss was the girls in the last two years of primary. We had separate classes for girls and boys and merry miss were the only primary girls to have weekday activities. They started merry miss at the start of the year they turned 11, and aged out on their 12th birthday.

John Pack Lambert said...

Wait, you put all at 100% chance. I really think Benin City is my number one pick, and I only put it at 95%. A temple in Bolivia is at 90%. Lumbumbashi is up there as well. Their stake is older than the oldest stake in Harare.

John Pack Lambert said...

Vietnam might be premature. With the port Moresby Temple announced I could easily see Jakarta and Singapore get temples both and will no new stakes.

Mozambique is a top pick now especially with them at 4 stakes. Same is true of Antanaraivo, Madagascar. I also think Kiribati is a top ranked pick for a temple.

Kumasi is a high rated pick. I also put Daloa, Ivory coast and Kampala Uganda high up on lists.

I wish I was confident enough to put Addis Ababa on the list. I don't think it will happen before we are at least close to a stake there.

John Pack Lambert said...

I can see both Jakarta and Singapore getting temples. If Phenom Penh can get a temple while Bankock has one in progress than of course other places can as well.

That said Singapore only would serve one stake, but that is true of Winnipeg and Okinawa City Temples so nothing unprecedented there. Kiev Temple was announced long before Kiev got a stake, specifically in August 1988 before Detroit Temple was announced.

John Pack Lambert said...

This was how it was in the 1990s. In the 1960s primary classes split between girls and boys a year earlier.

Of course to understand what was going on one must remember that there was primary on weekdays and Sunday school on Sunday, which with junior Sunday school covered down to 5 year olds 9r younger.

I have heard a lot of the old ways, but having been born in 1980 the year the block schedule was introduced I never saw the old ways first hand and descriptions of them I have heard often do not explain all the procedural details.

Ray said...

Whizzbang, a new branch in the Winnipeg stake was reported today. It's the Neepawa Branch, about 115 miles west and slightly north of Winnipeg.

There are excellent pictures on Rick's website, ldschurchtemples.org, showing progress on the construction of the Winnipeg Temple. It is very challenging because of the harsh climate in winter. There was a conference talk that told of the huge challenge the builders faced with the very long pillars extending, I believe, 90 feet to bedrock. This was necessary to ensure an enduring foundation and was the basis of an inspirational doctrinal message.

James said...

Anyone curious about Primary class names used in the past can get more details on that subject at the following web address:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_(LDS_Church)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseret.com/platform/amp/2008/1/24/20066191/lds-church-terms-no-longer-in-use

twinnumerouno said...

JPL: the Kyiv temple was announced in 1998, presumably that was a typo.

I have put together a little more information about temple statistics, for those who are interested:

GWA asked "if we have ever had so many temples announced, but not yet under construction." I believe the answer is no. I have gone back through the numbers for the period 1998-2001, and the greatest number I found of temples announced, but not yet under construction, was 26.

For your information, here are the totals I found at 6-month intervals from the beginning of 1998 to the end of 2001 (I did not record a figure for mid-2001, because it was clear it was not necessary). Partly, I wanted to see the balance of temples under construction and announced.

Beginning of 1998:
51 temples dedicated, 9 under construction, 11 announced

Mid-1998:
52, 15, 11 (in same order as above)

Beginning 1999:
53, 24, 21

Mid-1999:
57, 46, 11

Beginning 2000:
68, 41, 6

Mid-2000:
91, 18, 12

Beginning 2001:
102, 12, 7

End of 2001:
107 dedicated, 11 under construction, 7 announced

The above-mentioned peak of 26 announced temples occurred on 9/25/1998- at that time there were 15 temples under construction.

Apart from the beginning of 1998 (ending in March when 2 temples had groundbreaking and none were announced), the only period in this temple building boom when there were more temples announced than under construction was from July 26-Dec. 5, 1998. By mid-1999 the pendulum had swung back toward those under construction- I was startled at how few temples there were left on the announced list.

twinnumerouno said...

The other question that was asked was about numbers of groundbreakings in a 6-month period. Of the 17 groundbreakings in 1998, 10 were in the last 6 months. In 1999, the numbers were higher. There were 14 groundbreakings in the first quarter, and 12 in the 2nd quarter- so 26 in all (out of 32 for the whole year) in the first 6 months.

twinnumerouno said...

I could see them looking for a site when they are in Cambodia.

twinnumerouno said...

Only 4 times in church history have 10 or more temples been announced in a single year.
1998 still holds the record, with 27.
2018 is 2nd with 19
Then 1999 with 17
2019 has had 16 temples announced, for 4th most.

Something tells me 2020 will be on this list too.

1981, 2008 and 2011 all had 9 temples announced.

twinnumerouno said...

Unless we hear something soon 2019 will probably end with 11 groundbreakings, more than any previous year, other than 1998 and 1999, but not enough to keep the "announced temples" list from growing. Hopefully 2020 beats that.

twinnumerouno said...

My 9:27 comment should have ended with "at the beginning of the year 2000."

There was so much temple activity in 1998 and 1999 I had to keep track of the changes on a monthly basis, otherwise I would not have seen the swing into having more temples announced than under construction.

twinnumerouno said...

Elder Jairo Mazzagardi was given emeritus status in 2016, a year early. Also, Elder Carlson's release was 4 years early and was actually given on his 66th birthday.

I believe Elder Andrew W. Peterson was given emeritus status in 1999. It was sad what happened to him, I seem to recall that it was a motorcycle accident, and he was crippled and then died 4 years later. I was very much aware of him- he was my dad's 2nd cousin, and my grandmother had made a point of telling my dad that her cousin's boy was a GA. A year after his call he came to the MTC when I was there, and his dad came along, and I was super-excited to talk to both of them after Elder Peterson's devotional address.

twinnumerouno said...

I might be remembering wrong about the dad coming along part, maybe I have that mixed up with when Elder Rulon G. Craven spoke at the MTC- his son had been my institute teacher in New York state.

coachodeeps said...

Thx, Twin for gathering and researching the information about announcements, groundbreakings, construction, and decisions of temples in the 1998-2000 era. Helps put things in perspective. One thing different is the temples now are not all the same design as in 1998-2000. These are different sizes, different configurations, and different number of spires. This from 1998-2000 only needed to be adapted to the site. That may contribute to some of the backlog. I think we will see a large number of groundbreakings wil take place in 2020 as part of the bicentennial year President Nelson announced. Perfect timing!

coachodeeps said...

There are currently 166 temples (9 of which are currently being renovated) in operation, 14 are under construction. So, even if all 14 were to be completed and dedicated by the end of next year, it would bring the total to 180, so it will take longer to get to 200 dedicated. There will be 8-11 groundbreakings by the end of the year, more to come next year, and most employees take about 2.5-3 years to complete once the groundbreaking takes place. So, we could have 200 temples by the end of 2024.

GWA said...

Great info twin. I agree, we hit 200 sometime in 2024. 300 is reasonable for 2030, if pres Nelson keeps announcing at this pace, but only if we start breaking ground at a similar pace. Groundbreakings are not yet keeping pace with his announcements. Either they reach an equilibrium with announcements and ground breaking, or pres Nelson has to slow down and let the building pace catch up to him.

coachodeeps said...

*Most temples take about 2.5-3 years...not employees ;)

Brett Stirling said...

Relevance?

JMR said...

Melbourne, I believe the relevance is that we should have 200 temples dedicated by 2024 due to the temples being completed in about 3 years from groundbreaking. If the Church continues to break ground often enough, we'll get to that number. That is all, I think, that coachodeeps was highlighting. BTW, I think that 200 dedicated temples by 2024 is very likely.

JMR said...

I am a new participant to this blog, but a long time reader. I love the information and insight that is shared here. Here are my thoughts on the 200 temples by 2024 timeframe discussion: by the end of this year we'll have 167 dedicated temples. As of today, we'll then have 13 temples under construction which will certainly be dedicated by 2024. We also have two temples with scheduled groundbreaking this year. That puts the Church at 182 dedicated temples. Assuming that between Jan 2020 and March 2021, we have 18 additional groundbreaking ceremonies, the Church should reach 200 by December 2024. If there are some additional temple groundbreaking announcements prior to the end of this year, that reduces the number from 18 to a little less. I think many of the upcoming temples are going to be smaller in size and should therefore be completed quicker than the larger temples.

Johnathan Reese Whiting said...

@JMR

Melbourne's "relevance?" comment was a reply to Eduardo's previous comment about Barack Obama.

Unfortunately, the replies on blogspot show up out of order on the web version of the site, whereas if you view them on the mobile version, you can see the correct order.

EP said...

One thing that continues to mystify me is the US making up half of temple announcements this conference. I figured there would be another 2 or 3 international temples announced. The Lord's workings are an enigma sometimes.

I think within the next 5 years, Idaho and Arizona will both have one more temple announced, then likely be considered complete for the time being. Northern Arizona (likely Flagstaff or perhaps Prescott) and Northern Idaho (Coeur d'Alene) both have good cases for covering those maps. While Coeur d'Alene is within an easy drive of Spokane, some of the surrounding stakes (Sandpoint, Lewiston, Moscow) could benefit from the shorter drive, and the Spokane temple is one of the smaller Hinckley temples. Any thoughts?

James Anderson said...

Coeur d'Alene is very close to Spokane, both are along I-90 and the trip across Idaho on that is around 50 miles.

The Phoenix area could get another temple, but it may end up being after the Mesa temple reopens, two large temples and a small one serve the Phoenix area and Flagstaff/Prescott are served by Phoenix. Much of the membership is east of I-20 and Loop 101 but in and close to Loop 202 east of that.

There is a rumor that a piece of property is held near where the yet to be built SR-24 freeway will cross Signal Butte just north of Queen Creek, but there is nothing around it right now, most development there is south of Ocotillo, With the population growth and unit growth east and south of Loop 202 in the area and along the SR-24 alignment out to the proposed SR-88 extension and freeway, that will also be an eventual area to consider as a possible in the mid term.

James said...

But it is also worth noting that in the case of Elder Cook, we don't know for sure that his early release was due to a health-related issue.

I also remembered something else I had wanted to mention: Elder David S. Baxter is a Scottish GA Seventy called as such in 2006. For the last few years, his bio on the Church website has noted he is on medical leave from his assignments. A previous report noted that he was being treated for cancer.

Given his ongoing health issues and that he is now 64.7 years old, I have wondered if, at some point soon, the Church may release him early. Just thought it would be worth mentioning here.

James said...

JPL, the area seventy to whom you referred is Elder Alfred Kyungu, and it was he of whom I noted above that he was serving as such for the second or third time.

Eduardo said...

Melbourne: relevance of Obama as designated as African-American, as compared to members of the Church who are, like the recent General Authority who spoke last weekend, the first to do so at General Conference.
Incidentally, BYU is having its first black QB start this Saturday. Racial identity is meaningful to many people, but ideally it would not be as relevant as some make it. But that is not the world we live in. Politics and religion will probably always overlap with racial identities and precedents.
Were it not so...
Lambert states he does not consider Obama truly African-American based on his background. I was adding a few contextual factors that have pertinence to the grounds of his black/white identity, which may or may not have relevance to Church issues, but is interesting to some when considering demographic factors in the U.S. Perhaps some journalists focus on this more, but I think characterizations of race are still compelling factors to quite a few people, especially when people discuss issues of the inportance of the modern value: diversity.

Johnathan Reese Whiting said...

@EP

I would be surprised if Coeur d'Alene gets a temple before Missoula does. Those in Coeur d'Alene, Hayden Lake, Sandpoint, Moscow, and Lewiston, travel 30, 40, 70, 100, and 105 miles respectively to Spokane; while those in Western Montana in Frenchtown, Missoula, and Stevensville travel 180, 200, and 225 miles respectively (all roughly, of course, as these individual areas are very spread out over their respective counties).

Plus, Frenchtown, Missoula, and Stevensville are all fairly close to one another. The 3 stakes there could probably support a smaller temple. Eventually, the Idaho Panhandle will probably get its own (probably to help with treacherous winter driving conditions, like the Afton Wyoming Temple helped those driving to Idaho Falls or Logan), but I would suspect Missoula gets one first, and then we'd probably see an upgrade to the Spokane. Heck, we might even see a renovation to that temple before Montana sees its second temple announced.

Johnathan Reese Whiting said...

@EP

Also, a temple in Missoula would prevent those from Western Montana from having to cross the Bitterroot Range to get to Spokane (by "cross," I mean you have to drive the length of half the Idaho Panhandle just to get out of the mountains). The stakes on the Idaho side in the Spokane Temple District have a much safer drive on more level land, and Frenchtown, Missoula, and Stevensville are all a safe highway drive to each other, without having to cross any mountains in the winter.

Whizzbang said...

@Ray- I hadn't heard about Neepawa being officially starting but it would make sense, it's a small branch with good people there

Ray said...

Whizzbang--Thanks, good to know.

Anonymous said...

I’m growing increasingly uninterested with sportscaster type comments. “Wow, the first person to do xyz, in xyz language, in xyz region of a small city, while standing on his head and chewing gum!” Exaggerating for emphasis. I’m much more interested in understanding how we can affect growth.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and I’d like to once again thank Matt for letting me post comments on his blog (hey, hasn’t blocked me yet, so he must approve, right ;)

David Todd said...

Sometimes good and relevant stuff end up in these comments. But usually that isnt the case. Ive learned to just scroll through the ones that I know I won't be interested in.

Johnathan Reese Whiting said...

@EP

Sorry, I meant the "width" of the Idaho Panhandle, not the "length."

Eduardo said...

What is sportscaster to one is nerdy to another is scholarly to another is intellectually stimulating to another is drivel to another is pabulum to another. Pick your poison, suit yourself.
One thing I do feel confident of is that our Church and its leadership pay a lot of attention to anniversaries and usually credit pioneer efforts and significant firsts.
Millions of people "scroll through" them all the time. Each person has different interests and motivations; I also happen to like most sporstcasters. That is a flattering compliment to me.
So, is it sports castery to ask what will be the next country to open to the Gospel or when West Virginia or Wisconsin will get a temple?
Plenty of people do care, I assert.

coachodeeps said...

Had a YM adult leaders meeting last night. These are excellent reasons put on by the Stake YM President for Bishoprics and YM Presidencies. This was a training on the new announcement that just occurred and how the Bishoprics can adjust to this. It was very useful. I found the idea is not to have fewer adults involved with the boys, but to more fully shift the focus of leadership from the adults to the young men. It also helps realign the key holders (Bishop, Teacher QPres, Deacons QP) and helps the Bishops fulfill their responsibility to the young men and youth more fully.

To still have the same number of adults in the YM, the instructions say to have 1 advisor per quorum and specialists, including one that could be called long term. (That was an interesting discussion. One Bishop kept asking what a specialist does and why do we call them specialists. It says they are thi assist the Bishop and YM advisors with the AP quorums, which leaves a lot to interpretation/ inspiration of the Bishop.)

Other changes that have occurred in the last 2 years have been leading up to this change. From Come Follow Me (home center learning) to strengthening/combining the EQ to RS presidencies taking on more responsibilities to Ministering to the Children and Youth Program to FSY. These were to take burdens off the Bishop and his counselors. I an sure more will come to continue to learn the load of the Bishop. Each of those are to help strengthen the youth and specifically the YM. That will effect growth as we more diligently follow these guidelines, find ways to support the youth and more fully understand our role in each of these changes. When the youth are focused on, given opportunity to lead, and feel and recognize the spirit, their testimony will grow. Experience is a great teacher, especially with strong adults to be the for them when they fail, help then recognize the spirit, and understand how to live the gospel and love doing it. As we as adults step back and trust the youth can lead, amazing things can happen.

The Stake YM President said to me afterwards that he is grateful he and his counselors have been teaching the idea to let the young men lead, because it will be a more seamless transition for those of us that have been working to do just that. My ward had and it is a difficult row to hoe, but it pays off. My youth are do much more and are more involved, excited, and engaged. What a great thing to see!

Some adults and parents have been so reluctant to step back and let the youth lead, that this is a further shot in the arm to do so. Many parents have not been happy with me the last year as I transitioned the YM to leading and planning and being in charge. I have at times even be reluctant and nervous about doing so. But, lately I have started seeing the growth of the young men. A change of Bishoprics had helped more this along even quicker and they are fully supportive of this and now the young men are in a great place to go to even higher and holier ways. I an excited, too.

James said...

JPL, an additional note on area seventy releases: the last time a mass number of releases was announced in April, and the last time it was noted those releases would be effective May 1 was in 2016.

The following April, only 2 area seventies were were released, both of whom became GA Seventies.

The last 2 Aprils under President Nelson saw 7 area seventies released in each case. In 2018, 6 of those 7 were sustained as GA Seventies, and last April, 1 was released to serve as a temple President, 5 more were sustained as GA Seventies, and the last one became the new Sunday School General President.

With these things in mind, I think the days of mass April releases that are effective on May 1 are permanently concluded for the Church.

Chris said...

Does anyone know which Stake was discontinued yesterday?

According to Kimball, at www.fullerconsideration.com/units , it was the Crawley England Stake.

But according to Classic LDS Maps and Meetinghouse Locator it is still active :

https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=51.059281,-0.125736&z=9&m=google.road&layers=stakecenter&q=Crawley%20England%20Stake&find=stake:509485

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/meetinghouses/@51.067010,-0.442038,11&lang=eng&id=ward:67547

John Pack Lambert said...

Vietnam currently has 0 stakes. Since 1960 only Kiev has had a temple announced with 0 stakes. Laie, London, Hamilton, New Zealand and the Bern Switzerland temple all were announced with no stakes, but that was a different time and especially the Swiss and London temples were needed to end a pull of Church members from Europe drives by the pull of the temple.

If there is a person who would push a temple with no stakes it is President Nelson, but I still don't see it happening.

John Pack Lambert said...

The comparison is not exact though. It appears that Presidents Monson and Nelson have announced temples earlier in planning stages than President Hinckley did.

John Pack Lambert said...

I would not be surprised if 2020 exceeds 2019. I hope it exceeds 1998 but I may be too optimistic.

I have to wonder if the ground breaking 2020 April conference will include changes in missionary work, structure, methods, etc.

John Pack Lambert said...

Well Houston was announced in 1997 and it was not the small design. There are probably a few other exceptions.

Another factor is with 3 times as many temples and some other factors there are way more refurbishments/renovations of temples going on. Some of them are of temples built in 1999. The Salt Lake Temple project is probably the largest such project ever.

John Pack Lambert said...

Also many 1998-2000 temples were built on sites next to existing Church buildings. At least in the case of the Detroit Temple it was smaller both in total area and shorter than the existing stake Center. The stake Center parking lot was large enough in the Detroit Temple case that no additional parking was needed.

In the most recent crop of temples we have seen cases of temples being built on sites where the old chapel is demolished or in another case the old chapel is demolished and a new chapel built along with the temple. This requires more permits and building time.

Detroit Temple was also on the busiest non-freeway in all metro Detroit. This was a perfect alignment of issues. It was also announced after a site was chosen.

President Hinckley in 1998 held off until sites were chosen to announce possibly because of the Hartford situation where they never could find a site. After the Paris situation there is a desire not to have the media jump the gun. It is not clear all recent temples have a specific site at announcement which inherently makes the time from announcement to completion longer.

Ray said...

@Chris, fullerconsideration is reporting Crawley Stake being closed today, but the cdol website is showing no changes for the last 2 days after a lot of activity earlier in the week. Kimball, at fullerconsideration.com/units, usually follows CDOL reports giving information on specific locations within a day or so. Hard to say what's going on.

Chris said...

@Ray, Thank you for the clarification. I know a while back here, there was a post of rumors of reshuffling Stakes in Southeast England.

On the other hand, Kimball has gotten erroneous data before. i.e., when he posted the closer of the Coimbra Portugal Stake months ago and reported closer of a Monterrey Mexico Libertad Stake, among others.

Jim Coles said...

My experience with the 3 YM my wife and I are raising is the lack of guidance and mentoring from YM leadership. They preach it’s the boys responsibility to lead, but they are so hands off that the boys don’t even know how to lead and the communication is down right awful. When my oldest was called to be Teachers quorum president, we expressed concern of bullying that had occurred with him with other boys in the ward and the fact that he is on the spectrum but highly functioning. We asked how he was expected to lead boys that couldn’t show enough respect and love toward him. The bishopric member stated we just expect him to get up and make announcements. I think many members misunderstand the concept of boy lead program. You want someone to be a leader, you have to teach them how. I understand that this comes naturally to some, but others it does not. I have not been impressed with the hands off approach, sink or swim mentality when it comes to teaching YM leadership. I know I went on a rant here, but I know I am not the only that feels this way. Learning to be a leader is only as good as the leadership you have and their example.

John Pack Lambert said...

Are there ways that the time from groundbreaking to dedication could be reduced. Rome and Forteleza had very long times from groundbreaking to dedication. Although neither had the delay from announcement to dedication if Bogata and Guayaquil. Kiev was about as long as Rome but since it was announced August 1998 a month when many announced temples were completed in just over a year the relative wait seemed longer.

John Pack Lambert said...

I do not see why Couer d'Laine and Missoula can't have temples announced together. If we look at fall 1998 there were lots of temples representing multiple temples drawing from a specific existing temple. I think Atlanta Temple saw 5 drawing from it. And Mexico had almost 11 temples announced with only 1 operating.

John Pack Lambert said...

Is BYU's black QB a Church member?

John Pack Lambert said...

Obama is not African-American in the context of distinguishing African and African-American. If we embrace pan Africanism than there us nothing noteworthy about Peter M. Johnson.

To continue at one point there were two black members of the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square (although this pre-dates that name), neither of whom were African-American. One was Alex Boye the Black British son of a Nigerian immigrant mother and a father who never left Nigeria. Boye was born in Brutain. He is now a US citizen (even this is after he left the choir), but that does not make him ethnically African American. His wife is a white Utah native but that is probably not relevant.

The other black member of the choir at the time was Amram Musunga, a Kenyan who at one point taught Swahili at BYU. He later ran as an independent candidate for president of Kenya. Musunga's wife is also Kenyan.

The SL Tribune article on Elder Johnson's talk included the odd quote "we are the last group to get a Speaker at general conference". Hmm, other than those of Indian sub-continent origin. Or what speaker ever was Arab. For that matter was there ever an ethnically Jewish general authority? I probably could come up with other examples, but those are the three most obvious.

John Pack Lambert said...

I'm on the spectrum and was bullied when I first was a teacher. By the time I was Teachers quorum President the boys who had bullied me were gone.

I am hoping with the bishop and their counselors having a clearer mandate in this situation leadership development will be better.

John Pack Lambert said...

On the other hand anyone who says of a teacher's quorum President "we just want him to make announcements" is ignoring things like President Eyring's and other leaders talks on boys needing to lead out in building quorum and reaching out to the boys in their quorum.

coachodeeps said...

@Jim, I agree with what you sre saying. Allowing the YM to lead has to be accompanied by training, mentoring, guiding them to know their duties (not just making announcements), and shadow leadership. As I have learned that art, the improvements of the YM leading out shows. When it was just hands off, it didn't work. We now do a lot of presidency training, helping them use agendas, teaching duty of the presidency, and reflection after activities and quorum meetings to help them see what they can improve for the next time. This allows the YM figure things out. Again, it isn't perfect and I have a lot to learn, but the YM are more engaged.

coachodeeps said...

The advisor role is what this is about. If that is my roll going forward, I won't have Ward Council duties and I can focus even more on these areas of mentoring and guiding of the YM.

Christopher Nicholson said...

I read that the Erda Temple will be built on an "accelerated plan" or something to that effect, to finish it faster and relieve stress caused by the closure of the Salt Lake Temple. I'm sure this acceleration doesn't mean cutting any corners, so whatever they're doing to make it faster, why don't they do it for every temple? Unless they're just pouring more money into it.

A kid in my Young Men's group was bullied at church. I felt bad for him but I didn't stick up for him because I got bullied at school and didn't want to jeopardize what I felt was my own precarious social position at church. It's one of my biggest regrets.

Lucas said...

My comment has nothing to do with the topic. Just informing that a new stake was created today. In the city of Piracicaba. It is comprised by 4 wards from Piracicaba Stake and 3 wards from Rio Claro Stake, creating the Piracicaba Rezende Stake

John Pack Lambert said...

Hall, the African-American quarterback for BYU is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. On the other hand since BYU has a non-white head football coach I find some of the coverage of Hall starting to be myopic.

James Anderson said...

One on temples to inject, one other possibility for the Orem temple. The local water conservancy district had a site at University Parkway and 400 West and it was a large parcel with walk-through gardens and things. They moved, and the land is empty other than what remains from when they were there. Haven't heard on if it is big enough or not but it is less than a mile above UVU and if you are on the edge of the hillside you can see the freeway below along with a commercial district including a Walmart. Of course they would want to build the temple grounds so that that was minimized as far as the view went but it seems plausible for this site to be considered.

David Todd said...

That seems like a better location to me than 8th East in Orem. I think somewhere in west or north Orem would be best as provo already has two temples and it would make most sense to build one not directly next to those two. Some people discounted the Vineyard area, but I think it is a great possible location. There will be a new frontrunner station built in the coming years, a huge town center, and an estimated population of 50 thousand by 2030. There is lots of space out there in the undeveloped part that will become available in the next year, and in the part that is currently being developed, the church already owns property. Another option would be to build down by the sleepy ridge golf course but I'm not sure if there is any space for it.

James said...

JPL, a Church member living and working in Guatemala told me prior to the October General Conference that, once a temple was announced in Coban, the next most likely Guatemalan Temple prospect would be Villa Nueva. Based on past information this member has provided, I'd defer to her first-hand knowledge in that respect. Hope this information is helpful.

Anonymous said...

@David Todd, having lived in NYC and having used mass transit, I think having a temple in Utah that’s walkable from a main mass transit line in Utah would significantly increase accessibility to certain demographics.

Anonymous said...

Other than the SLC temple, are there any UT temples walkable from a passenger rail station?

James said...

Christopher, from what I am hearing on my end, count on the Tooele Valley Utah Temple having a groundbreaking within the next year or less, and being built and dedicated roughly 1.5-2 years before the Salt Lake Temple reopens.

As far as why the Church isn't also fast-tracking other temples in a similar manner, the Tooele Valley government pledged quick approval for the designs once they are submitted, which is not always the case anywhere else outside of Utah. Above and beyond that, however, is the fact that since this December will mark mark the first long-term closure for the Salt Lake Temple that will, according to officially-released information, take around 4 years and require at least a 2-3 month open house (due to anticipated interest in that Temple's reopening) and a public rededication likely to be held over at least 2 weeks and be carried worldwide, those who are within the current Salt Lake Temple district will need another option. So that, as I understand it, is the reasoning behind Tooele being fast-tracked. Hope that helps.

David Todd said...

The front runner connects to a (currently) free bus system in Orem and Provo that has a stop right in front of the Provo City Center Temple. Its not on a track, but it might as well be because it has its own lane and follows one direct loop.

I have never been to the Ogden Temple so I dont know where it is in relation to transit up there.

James Anderson said...

Ogden is visible from that Frontrunner station, and several buses run by that to get over to Washington Blvd and then on to Weber State and other points east of Washington (US-89)

In addition to UVX, Route 850, a route that runs every fifteen minutes, goes by both ways.

Mount Timpanogos used to have a bus go by it, same for Provo, Draper and Oquirrh Mountain do not have bus service, Route F504 goes by Oquirrh Mountain bu at least two blocks, am unsure actual distance which could be more.

Provo for the last 34 years, has had at least some bus service, until this last August, now it does not. UTA claimed they stopped serving it because only 13 riders per day average got on or off there.

Saratoga Springs will not have bus service, the city government won't let UTA in to service what is built up already.

Bountiful is difficult to get anything other than cars up there, remember the night that the roads got iced up and it was after midnight before they got everyone down from there after a dedicatory session?

Jordan River is served by 517 and Salt Lake has TRAX and many buses.

A bus will run by Tooele Valley by a block or two, Layton I am not sure the proximity.

Payson is within a slightly longer walking distance from 822.

Taylorsville should be within walking distance of any buses that run there. Orem will depend on location.

twinnumerouno said...

Looking at UTA's website, rideuta.com, FrontRunner's Ogden Station looks like it is about 5 blocks from the temple there, so it would probably be walkable during good weather by those who are in decent shape.

Several other Utah temples look to be 2-3 miles from a Trax or FrontRunner station, including Draper, Oquirrh Mountain and Jordan River.

I didn't look up Provo City Center since David gave info about that. But it looks like the next best (besides Ogden) may be the future Layton temple, which will be built about 1.4 miles from the Layton FrontRunner station.

I looked up bus routes that wikipedia lists as operating from the stations near the other temples I mentioned. It did not appear to me that any of them go near those temples, but someone who lives in those areas might have information I was not able to see.

My last thought is that it is possible that Orem and Taylorsville could be close to the Trax or FrontRunner stations but this would obviously depend on where they are built.

James said...

twinnumerouno, if the information on Rick Satterfield's website is correct, the Church has acquired a prospective site adjacent to the Phnom Penh North Stake Center, which is under consideration for the temple. So the Nelsons and Christoffersons could scope that out, along with any other Church-owned sites in that city which we may not know about. Thanks.

twinnumerouno said...

James A gave more info about bus routes than what I was able to find online, and his info may invalidate some of my information (I did not see his post until I submitted mine).

James said...

twinnumerouno, we will almost certainly see announcements for the Nairobi Kenya, Brasilia Brazil, Harare Zimbabwe, and Bengaluru India Temples, based on what is now known. For more specific information, see the following most recent post on my blog:

https://stokessoundsoff.blogspot.com/2019/10/1800th-blog-post-updated-sections-of.html?m=1

Thanks.

Johnathan Reese Whiting said...

Ogden Temple is very walkable from the Frontrunner. You can just head east on 23rd St. past the baseball stadium and head north once you hit the movie theatre. Or, if you want a slightly more scenic walk, you head a block south of the train station and then east on historic 24th St. (which has all the eclectic shops). Then head north on Kiesel Ave. which has restaurants and entertainment. Deseret Book and the new Family Search Center are all in the vicinity.

Johnathan Reese Whiting said...

For those familiar with the Provo City Center area, Ogden's historic 24th Street is our equivalent to Provo's W. Center St.

coachodeeps said...

For Layton, UTA Bus Route 627 is on Fairfield Road, with a stop right by the Smith's on the corner of Fairfield and Gentile. This is very much within walking distance. About a half mile from the temple plot. The bus is scheduled for every 30 minutes.

For Brigham City, UTA bus route 630 stops right in front of the Brigham City Temple (that is the name of the stop). This is also every 30 minutes.

coachodeeps said...

The Logan Utag Temple is a couple block east of Main Street/ Highway 89. Using the Cache Valley bus system, there are at least 2 bus routes that stop within 2 blocks of the temple. So that is a fairly easy walk.

coachodeeps said...

The Vernal Utah Temple also has bus service right to the temple using the Basin Transit Authority. Times vary throughout the day.

coachodeeps said...

The St. George Temple also has a bus stop working walking distance. I was able to find one route that stopped about 3 blocks from the temple, but the website wasn't great for searching if your not familiar with the area.

twinnumerouno said...

Huh. I live less than an hour from Vernal and had only a vague awareness of the Basin Transit Authority. From the website, it looks like both the red and green lines go right past the temple, though the actual stop for both may be a couple blocks away in front of the Davis Jubilee grocery store.

Someone who came from Duchesne would have to take the Blue Route to Roosevelt and then transfer to the Green Route to get to Vernal.

In Colorado where I live, I believe there is a senior citizen bus from Rangely that goes to Vernal no more than once a day for shopping and the like, going through my town of Dinosaur (renamed after the nearby National Monument in the 60's) to get there. I am not sure if it is still running, how long the bus stays in Vernal before it leaves, or whether it goes every day. The bus is called Radino after the two towns. A sister in my ward used to be the driver but is now in a care center.

Thomas Jay Kemp said...

The Hartford Connecticut Temple is also on a bus line.
Connecticut Transit Farmington Avenue Route 66 goes directly in front of the Temple ... See: https://www.cttransit.com/sites/default/files/maps/route/h_66_map_3.pdf

The Temple is located on Farmington Avenue across the street from Devonwood Drive on this map. For example, it is possible for arriving passengers to conveniently take a bus from the Hartford (Bradley) Airport (in Windsor Locks, CT) to travel to the Temple. Members frequently connect to this bus route to travel to the Temple - connecting from most areas of Connecticut.

The Temple's exact address is: 2 Central Way, Farmington, CT 06032. Central Way is the access road created when the Temple was constructed 3 years ago.

coachodeeps said...

This article is excellent in talking about the BYU Pathway Worldwide beginnings and potential. The impact is much more than educational. "Most important to Pathway has been embedding the gospel deep in the students’ hearts and research among Pathway students suggests success in this regard."

This is now being combined with the Self-Reliance courses. A new partnership has been formed between BYU-Pathway Worldwide and the Welfare and Self-Reliance Services Department of the Church.
https://www.thechurchnews.com/living-faith/2019-08-11/byu-pathway-worldwide-partners-welfare-and-self-reliance-155583

This is such amazing progress in such a short time! So much more is possible.

A thought or question: Will the efforts continue to grow and eventually (or more readily) connect to Come Follow Me? They seem to be based on the same ideas of self teaching and collaborative learning.

coachodeeps said...

I realized I didn't include the first article I was referring to. Here it is:
https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/re-18-no-3-2017/byu-idaho-pathway-gateway-global-church-education

James Anderson said...

BYU-Pathway is college-level education, the work with the Welfare Services department makes sense. However, it may not include Come, Follow Me as that is the Institute program, which is also available in many of the areas, if not all, where Pathway has meetings, etc., and which is growing on the stake level where there is no Institute near enough for students to attend.

L. Chris Jones said...

Part of BYU-Pathway is religious instruction similar to institute. They have weekly meetings to meet with other students for both education and religion class. Usually on Thursday evenings.

L. Chris Jones said...

Pathway meeting can take place at meetinghouses, institutes, and has virtual meetings in areas too far from a meeting place.

James said...

twinnumerouno, I am not sure what led to Elder Mazzagardi's early release, but Elder Carlson's was due to a senior military assignment he was asked to fill, if my memory serves me correctly.

John Pack Lambert said...

The Detroit Temple is on a,bus line. However the ritzy people in Bloomfield Hills where the temple is opted out of the bus system. That means you have to walk about a quarter mile maybe a little more from the nearest bus stop. I have managed to get out closer but if you miss that stop you are risking getting dropped off more than 2 miles past the temple.

John Pack Lambert said...

Pathway students who are under 31 attend local institute classes as part of their pathway course. This is those who are in the program with gatherings. I am less sure how such works where there are not gatherings.

BryanBaird84 said...

I actually walked to the Ogden temple from the Frontrunner when I went to check out the city from Provo. Of course in Provo we are getting new buildings downtown.

Whizzbang said...

Just today, Bishop Waddell gave a talk at BYU and said that President Nelson is "not going to stop anytime soon" in announcing Temples, FWIW

Academy Estate Agents said...

Content provided by the blogger is vulnerable. For the students at Utah Valley University, Orem Student Housing can provide the best accomodation.