Sunday, April 3, 2016

Four New Temples Announced

This morning, LDS Church President Thomas S. Monson announced four new temples in the following locations:
  • Belem, Brazil
  • Quito, Ecuador
  • Lima, Peru (2nd temple)
  • Harare, Zimbabwe
With the announcement of four new temples, this brings the total of temples in operation, under construction, or announced to 177. I will provide analysis of these new temple announcements on Monday, April 4th.

65 comments:

Bryan Baird said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John Pack Lambert said...

Actually it is Belem that surprises me the most. However looking at maps of Brazil, the Fortaleza Temple is not much closer to Belem than the Recife Temple is, especially since the journey to either goes through Teresina. I guess if you own a boat, Fortaleza is more clearly closer, but you are at least two thirds of the way Recife.

Lima with 41 stakes is a lot for a temple, especially since the Lima Temple has less square footage than most temples built in 1999-2001, if not than all. So while the Church may be bigger in Sao Paulo and Mexico City, the temples there are a lot bigger as well. For example Sao Paulo is 59,000 square feet, two ordinance rooms, and there are 30 Sao Paulo Stakes. Mexico City Temple is 116,000 square feet, 4 ordanance rooms, and 41 Mexico City stakes. Lima does have 4 ordance rooms, but only 9,600 square feet. The 10,7000 square foot Detroit Temple only has 2 ordance rooms. I am not sure how Lima has 4, but they are either rooms with little seating, or the temple might just lack other spaces, so I can see why a new temple, that would then allow remodeling of the current one would be good.

Santiago Temple is 20,800 square feet. There are 31 stakes in Santiago. Other than Concepcion which is getting a temple, no other city in Chile has more than 2 stakes. However Valparaiso and Vina del Mar have 4 stakes between them. However Vina del Mar is only 76 miles drive from Santiago.

Arica Chile has 2 stakes and it is 1300 miles drive to the temple. An Antofagasta Temple might be able to take in 7 stakes, but this would still include Arica which is 481 miles away. There are large chunks of area in the Antofagasta Mission that are not even in districts. I do not see Antofagasta getting a Temple announced until the city has at least 4 stakes there. A third at least. Also the 4 branches directly under the mission just south of the Antofagasta Chile Stake boundary being organized as a district would help its cause. If the Alto Hispicio Chile District was made a stake that would help the cause even more.

However Arica is 481 miles from Antofagasta and only 281 from Arequipa, Peru. The 1300 to 281 comparison makes it likely that the Arica stakes will be assigned to the Arequipa Peru Temple. It also means that assigning them to the Antofagasta Temple will be hard, and even if done, unless it is virtually impossible to cross from Chile to Peru will not actually cause many members to travel to Antofagasta. I almost wonder if Arica/Talca have enough stakes that they could have a temple in one of those cities to serve both soon.

Ryan Searcy said...

Preliminary Districts

QUITO, ECUADOR - 12 Stakes, 2 Districts, 4 Mission Branches

HARARE, ZIMBABWE - 15 Stakes, 15 Districts, 25 Mission Branches

BELEM, BRAZIL - 11 Stakes, 2 Districts, 4 Mission Branches

LIMA, PERU (2nd)* - 30 Stakes, 2 Mission Branches
* I predict the temple will be located in the western part of the city. As my reference point, I chose Callao.

Bryan Baird said...

Some other cities that could also have had a second temple:
Los Angeles, California in Anaheim, California
Las Vegas, Nevada in Henderson, Nevada
Seattle, Washington in Tacoma, Washington
Salt Lake City, Utah in West Valley City, Utah
Mexico City Mexico
Manila Phillipines

Ryan Searcy said...

I apologize, it is supposed to be 3 Mission Branches for Lima, Peru. If anyone is curious about my findings, let me know.

Ohhappydane33 said...

Anaheim? Not likely since Orange County already has a temple in nearby Newport Beach, which one could consider LA's second temple. The membership base in Orange County is not likely large enough to support an additional temple.

illipn said...

@Ryan, I served in Lima and was thinking about where they would be able to build a new temple. Callao is definitely the last place they would build a temple in Lima. It's easily the most dangerous, crime-ridden area of Peru, and most Peruvians will not ever go there. I would think the temple would be in northern Lima - around Puente Piedra or Comas.

John Pack Lambert said...

Actually, I would expect a 2nd temple in Las Vegas to be somewhere in the western portion of the city. However the current Las Vegas Temple is not in the city boundaries.

The next temple to take from the Los Angeles Temple would probably be in Bakersfield. Ventura County is also a contender though. The East Valley in the Arcadia Area might be a contender, but not that likely. I could see Bakersfield most likely.

Eduardo Clinch said...

While Talca would be a great place for a temple in southern Chile, I think a better location would be further south in the Osorno mission. Punta Arenas at the bottom of the world could be served by a southern Argentina temple like in Neuquen or Comodoro Rivadavia, or Trelew.

Irwin said...

@John Pack Lambert Lima has 42 stakes only Ventanilla Peru Stake does not have the name of Lima but within the city and the metropolitan area.

I live in Tacna, Peru and in Chile members report that the 2 stakes Arica will be part of the Arequipa Perú Temple district. Apparently will be discontinued a stake in Tacna this month. Many wards 40-60 members attend, for example my exward was discontinued in 2013. Los Granados ward (my current ward) reached 230 active members recently but are the exception.

Eduardo Clinch said...

Oh, I think the author meant Arica Chile/Tacna Peru border area. Antofogasta AND Arica-Tacna would be great for temples.
Talca in the 7th Region is not a bad bus trip to Santiago.

Fredrick said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fredrick said...

If the Church built another temple in Las Vegas, this is where I think it will be built. Click on Aerial View.

http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/assessor/Pages/PropertyRecords.aspx?H=redrock&P=assrrealprop/pcl.aspx

Parcel No: 13831210008

James Anderson said...

Quito was out of the blue but those who have been on the ground in Ecuador have said that the trip to Guayqul was a nasty, dangerous one. So that will clear that up.

Peru of course is very small, so this one will likely be somewhat larger, probably still smaler but maybe the 30k square-foot range.

Zimbabwe will take care of surrounding nations to the west and north. Harare to Johannesburg is a 13-hour drive.

Belem is further away from Fortaleza than Fortaleza is from Recife, we saw this one coming but simply didn't know when. On the ground in Belem, though, is a crappy transportation network although the streets are otherwise decent, as Belem's only freeway is clogged a lot of the time, the Google Maps image for it shows both sides of it backed up its entire length from east of BR-156 to its west end, the freeway is known as BR-010.

Eduardo Clinch said...

Oh, I think the author meant Arica Chile/Tacna Peru border area. Antofogasta AND Arica-Tacna would be great for temples.
Talca in the 7th Region is not a bad bus trip to Santiago.

Eduardo Clinch said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John Pack Lambert said...

Yes I got Tacna and Talca confused. Sorry about that.

L. Chris Jones said...

I am excited for Quito. I served in Guayaquil when that temple was under construction and I had several companions and friends from Quito. I am excited for Lima2. I wonder where it will be built. I am guessing West or north part of the city. I wonder what name we will give it. I hoped and prayed for a temple I Zimbabwe and am excited for that part of the world. I hoped for an temple in Belem, but I thought Brasilia would be Brazil's next temple. We are in an amazing time in the world. I remember in 1997 the church dedicated the church's 50th temple in St. Louis Missouri. There was a huge article in the Ensign in June of that year on the history of temple building. Within 2-3 years the number of temples doubled. Last month we reached 150 completed temples. Wow.

L. Chris Jones said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
L. Chris Jones said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
L. Chris Jones said...

How many temples in recent years have been announced not during conference?

John Pack Lambert said...

With the announcement of the Temple in Belem I am now wondering if Natal or Maceio will get temples any time soon. Probably not until after the temple in Belem is finished, and probably Salvador will be the next temple to take away from the Recife Temple District.

I also just realized that at 12 stakes, Fortaleza has twice as many stakes as Recife.

John Pack Lambert said...

The last temple not announced during general conference was Paris France, but that was only because a French newspaper managed to run an article on it before formal announcement. The Church had clearly wanted to announce it in October General Conference.

The Trujillo Peru Temple announced in December 2008 was the last temple not announced at general conference intentionally. Gilbert and Phoenix were announced in May of 2008. Other than that, all temples announced since President Monson has become president of the Church have been announced at general conference.

Eduardo Clinch said...

When I had left Utah in 1997 I had attended all 11 or so temples there. Since then on visits I have been to (walked outside) maybe 3 new ones but there are quite a few that I would like to do the sessions in. Good problem to have, we are blessed.

L. Chris Jones said...

I think Payson Utah was announced in a January.

L. Chris Jones said...

I think Payson Utah was announced in a January.

Ben Hunt said...

I don't know if you have this, but I would like to see a list of the stakes in the US that are farthest from their assigned temples. For example, I know that Riverton, Wyoming (Where I served as a missionary) is about 300 away from the Ogden Utah Temple. (Which to me, is odd, as Billings is closer and is much easier to drive to.)

You have listed Evanston, Wyoming as a possible site for a new temple, and that does make sense as there are 3 stakes in Uintah county, Wyoming with Green River, Rock Springs and Kemmerer close by. However, it's wouldn't really be much of a relief for the Riverton, Wyoming stake, as the most treacherous part of the trip is the first 100 miles.

A temple in Casper, Wyoming, assuming that they can soon split the stake, would be easier for saints in Riverton to get to and many people who live in Riverton will go to Casper to make purchases of items that are not available in the Wind River Basin. Keeping Evanston in the Ogden Temple District makes sense because Evanstonites will make shopping trips to the Wasatch Front for items that are not available in Evanston.

A temple in Casper, assuming they can split the stake, in addition to Riverton, could serve almost all of Eastern Wyoming, including the Gillette, Worland, Laramie, Cheyenne and Cheyenne East stakes. A temple in Evanston would serve only seven.

Ryan Searcy said...

Specifics on my temple district predictions. These are merely speculative. I will update these lists after the groundbreaking and prior to dedication.

QUITO, ECUADOR - comprising 12 Stakes, 2 Districts, 4 Mission Branches in northern and eastern Ecuador.
1. Ambato Ecuador Stake
2. Esmeraldas Ecuador Stake
3. Los Chillos Ecuador Stake
4. Otavalo Ecuador Imbabura Stake
5. Otavalo Ecuador Stake
6. Quito Ecuador Calderon Stake
7. Quito Ecuador Chillogallo Stake
8. Quito Ecuador Colon Stake
9. Quito Ecuador La Ofella Stake
10. Quito Ecuador Stake
11. Quito Ecuador Turubamba Stake
12. Santo Domingo Ecuador Stake
A. Ibarra Ecuador District
B. Riobamba Ecuador District
Nueva Loja Branch
Orellana Branch
Puyo Branch
Tena Branch

HARARE, ZIMBABWE - comprising 15 Stakes, 15 Districts, 25 Mission Branches in eastern and central Africa. Some of these stakes, districts and branches were previously on my list to be assigned to Kinshasa.
1. Bulawayo Zimbabwe Stake
2. Gweru Zimbabwe Stake
3. Harare Zimbabwe Marimba Park Stake
4. Harare Zimbabwe South Stake
5. Harare Zimbabwe Stake
6. Nkulumane Zimbabwe Stake
7. Katuba DR Congo Stake
8. Kisanga DR Congo Stake
9. Lubumbashi DR Congo Stake
10. Nairobi Kenya East Stake
11. Nairobi Kenya West Stake
12. Jinja Uganda Stake
13. Kampala Uganda Stake
14. Lusaka Zambia Stake
15. Beira Mozambique Stake
A. Bindura Zimbabwe District
B. Mutare Zimbabwe District
C. Kolwezi DR Congo District
D. Likasi DR Congo District
E. Chyulu Kenya District
F. Eldoret Kenya District
G. Kilungu Hills Kenya District
H. Mombasa Kenya District
I. Kitwe Zambia District
J. Ndola Zambia District
K. Beira Mozambique Manga District
L. Blantyre Malawi District
M. Lilongwe Malawi District
N. Addis Ababa Ethiopia District
O. Dar es Salaam Tanzania District
Chegutu Branch (Zimbabwe)
Dombashawa 1st Branch (Zimbabwe)
Dombashawa 2nd Branch (Zimbabwe)
Dombotongbo Branch (Zimbabwe)
Kadoma 1st Branch (Zimbabwe)
Kadoma 2nd Branch (Zimbabwe)
Marondera Branch (Zimbabwe)
Masvigo Branch (Zimbabwe)
Kalundu Branch (DR Congo)
Uvira Branch (DR Congo)
Busia 1st Branch (Kenya)
Kisumu Branch (Kenya)
Naivasha Branch (Kenya)
Adyel Branch (Uganda)
Bardege Branch (Uganda)
Busia 2nd Branch (Uganda)
Gulu Branch (Uganda)
Lira Branch (Uganda)
Masaka Branch (Uganda)
Mbale Branch (Uganda)
Chimoio Branch (Mozambique)
Marromeu Branch (Mozambique)
Nampula Branch (Mozambique)
Quelimane Branch (Mozambique)
Tete Branch (Mozambique)
Arusha Branch (Tanzania)
Mwanza Branch (Tanzania)
Bujumbura 1st Branch (Burundi)
Bujumbura 2nd Branch (Burundi)
Bujumbura 3rd Branch (Burundi)
Kigali 1st Branch (Rwanda)
Kigali 2nd Branch (Rwanda)
Kigali 3rd Branch (Rwanda)
Kasane Branch (Botswana)
Djibouti Military Branch (Djibouti)

Ryan Searcy said...

BELEM, BRAZIL - comprising 11 Stakes, 2 Districts, 4 Mission Branches in Para, Maranhao, Tocantins, Amapa, and northern Mato Grosso.
1. Belem Brazil Cabanagem Stake (Recife)
2. Belem brazil Cidade Nova Stake (Recife)
3. Belem Brazil Entroncamento Stake (Recife)
4. Belem Brazil Icoaraci Stake (Recife)
5. Belem Brazil Stake (Recife)
6. Castanhal Brazil Stake (Recife)
7. Santarem Brazil Stake (Manaus)
8. Imperatriz Brazil Stake (Recife)
9. Sao Luis Brazil Stake (Recife)
10. Palmas Brazil Stake (Campinas)
11. Macapa Brazil Stake (Recife)
A. Barcarena Brazil District (Recife)
B. Carajas Brazil District (Recife)
Altamira Branch (Para)
Paragominas Branch (Para)
Araguaina Branch (Tocantins)
Alta Floresta Branch (Mato Grosso)

LIMA, PERU (2nd)* - comrpising 30 Stakes and 3 Mission Branches in western Lima province and northern and central Peru
* I chose Callao because it made geographical sense. The airport is nearby, which takes in the Iquitos area. While the temple may not be placed there because of crime, temples are also in places with lots of crime (Aba, Ciudad Juarez to name a few).
1. Barranca Peru Stake
2. Cerro de Pasco Peru Stake
3. Huacho Peru Stake
4. Huanaco Peru Amarillis Stake
5. Huanaco Peru Stake
6. Iquitos Peru Nueve de Octubre Stake
7. Iquitos Peru Punchana Stake
8. Iquitos Peru Stake
9. Lima Peru Callao Stake
10. Lima Peru Carabayllo Stake
11. Lima Peru Comas Stake
12. Lima Peru Condevilla Stake
13. Lima Peru El Olivar Stake
14. Lima Peru El Trebol Stake
15. Lima Peru Independencia Stake
16. Lima Peru La Libertad Stake
17. Lima Peru Las Palmeras Stake
18. Lima Peru Los Olivos Stake
19. Lima Peru Magdalena Stake
20. Lima Peru Maranga Stake
21. Lima Peru Palao Stake
22. Lima Peru Prolima Stake
23. Lima Peru Puente Piedra Stake
24. Lima Peru Rimac Stake
25. Lima Peru San Felipe Stake
26. Lima Peru San Martin Stake
27. Lima Peru Santa Isabel Stake
28. Lima Peru Tahuantinsuyo Stake
29. Pucallpa Peru Stake
30. Ventanilla Peru Stake
Chancay Branch
Huaral Branch
Nauta Branch

Bryce .Gillespie said...

When was you in Riverton wy I served there, and in Lender twice

Ryan Searcy said...

How come the Lima Peru Temple is not being enlarged? It would seem that that might be easier than building a second temple.

Gnesileah said...

@ L. Chris Jones: Of the 40 temples announced by the First Presidency since President Monson became President of the Church in 2008, six of them have been announced outside of General Conference:

The Gila Valley Arizona - 26 Apr 2008
Gilbert Arizona - 26 Apr 2008
Phoenix Arizona - 24 May 2008
Trujillo Peru - 13 Dec 2008
Payson Utah - 25 Jan 2010
Paris France - 15 Jul 2011 (officially confirmed on 1 Oct 2011)

Sixty of the 79 temples announced during President Hinckley's administration were announced outside of General Conference. (However, included in that number is the 30-32 smaller temples that President Hinckley did announce in the April 1998 General Conference, but the specific cities were not identified until later. He announced another six smaller temples in April 2000. In between that time, sites for 42 smaller temples had been announced, exceeding the 30-32 he anticipated earlier.)

Christopher Nicholson said...

Even if the Lima Peru Temple were to be enlarged (as I hope it will be in addition to building this new one), 41 or 42 stakes in its own city is still quite a lot (even by Utah standards). Lima is also the third largest city in the Americas, so this will probably cut down a lot on travel time and inconvenience even for people who live there.

Brett Stirling said...

I can't substantiate this, but I would place Lima Peru as the same size as Seoul Korea. I checked on the Church page for it and it lists cafeteria and clothing services. If anyone has been in the smaller temples they will know that space is at a premium and do not include those two services. It would be very difficult to fit four ordinance rooms, three sealing, a cafeteria, clothing services, baptistry, change rooms and every other room in a building of only 9,600 square feet. I will endeavour to find alternative information to clarify.

If the Church managed to cram all of the above into that much floor space, I say kudos to the architect.

Ryan Searcy said...

According to LDSChurchTemples.com, the Lima Peru Temple is the second smallest temple in the world at 9,600 sq ft. The next one up is the Taipei Taiwan temple at 9,945 sq ft. Slightly larger than Taipei is all of the small-temple designs at 10,700 sq ft (except The Hague Netherlands, which has 10,500 sq ft).

Jeremy Endicott said...

The Lima temple cafeteria is in an adjacent building

Porter said...

I can absolutely assure you that the temple will not be build in Callao. The area has been closed to foreign missionaries (and often missionaries altogether) for years on end due to crime. It is easily the most unstable and dangerous neighborhood of Lima. That being said, I would agree that Comas or somewhere in northern Lima would be the most promising.

Eduardo Clinch said...

I heard that the Mexico City Temple used to be in a bad neighborhood but in improved over time. I don't know how it was in the 1980s, if it really was seedy or not, but when I visited in 2000 the vecindario seemed all right. There was a cafeteria as part of a visitors'center.

Eduardo Clinch said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Eduardo Clinch said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mike Johnson said...

Seoul has 28,000 square feet compared to 9600 for Lima. I don't think they are all that comparable in size.

The Buenos Aires Argentina Temple used to be the same size as Lima but was expanded. It is now about 17,600 square feet.

John Pack Lambert said...

I just noticed that both Burundi and Rwanda have 3 branches. I am wondering if either place is close to having a district. Also in the case of Burundi, has missionary work returned to normal since the violence that I seem to recall caused the Church to withdraw missionaries last year.

I also wonder what the changes are that 2017 will see a mission formed in either Burundi or Rwanda taking in both of them, or maybe in north-east Democratic Republic of the Congo taking in Rwanda and Burundi, or depending on how things are progressing with the East African Union, maybe a mission in Tanzania taking in Rwanda and Burundi as well.

John Pack Lambert said...

Does anyone have a clue how many temples have facilities to house temple patrons. I know they have such at the Santiago Chile Temple, and I know they are building housing for patrons as part of the Rome Italy Temple. I am pretty sure it exists for other temples as well, but have no clue which temples might have it.

John Pack Lambert said...

Another interesting list is temples with visitors centers. I know London England; Washington, DC; Mexico City; Salt Lake City; Los Angeles; Hamilton, New Zealand; Mesa, Arizona; Idaho Falls and Laie, Hawaii all have visitors centers. I am thinking Oakland, California might as well. Nauvoo, Palmyra and Winter Quarters are all essentially connected to visitors centers, although in those cases the visitors centers pre-date the temples. I believe St. George Temple has a visitors center, at least the Church operates visitors center like things in St. George. In San Diego the church operates a Mormon Battalion related visitors center, but I don't think there is a temple visitors center. So London, Mexico and New Zealand may be the only ones outside the US, with Rome soon to be added. I just did a google search and found references to the Portland Temple Visitors Center. However Portland does not appear here http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/visitors-centers on the Mormon Newsroom Visitors Center list (nor does Winter Quarters, San Diego Mormon Battalion Site, or the Handcart Company site in Wyoming. The Nauvoo, Palmyra, Kirtland and Inpendence operations may well have oversight for places like Carthage, Fayette, the John Johnson Farm in Hiram, and Liberty Jail/Far West/Adam-Ondi-Ahman to name related unlisted sites. I am a bit surprised to not see the Priesthood Restoration Site.

John Pack Lambert said...

Looking at the site, Hill Cumorah does have the PeterWHitmer Farm in Fayette listed under it. Ah, I found the Historic Sites page. So these are sites not ranking as visitors centers.

One place I had never heard of before is the Cody Murals Chapel in Cody Wyoming. In the dome of the chapel there are scenes from the first 70 years of LDS Church history. The site provides no information on tours or visiting times. The Joseph Smith Birthplace also seems to not rank as Visitors Center level. I think I have come across somewhere someone expressing hope a temple would be built on that site. It is possible, Nauvoo probably would never have been built on local membership considerations alone, but while maybe it would be the chosen site for a temple to cover Vermont and Western Massachusetts, I still expect the next temple in New England after Hartford to be in Maine.

John Pack Lambert said...

This list https://www.lds.org/locations/visitors-centers?lang=eng does show the Portland Temple Visitors Center. It also shows the Hyde Park Chapel in London.

I still have to say considering how many people visit New York City and how many people live there, it might make sense to have a visitors center there.

John Pack Lambert said...

I did have a district leader on my mission whose parents operated an LDS-themed bookstore near the Orlando Florida Temple. In Mexico City some Church members went a step further and set up a Museum of Mexican Mormon history by the temple.

In some cases, such as I believe Ogden, there is a large Family History Center near the Temple even though there is not a visitors center.

John Pack Lambert said...

Back to my Patron Housing question, the Bern Switzerland Temple has listed on its website contact information for patron housing. Madrid Spain Temple has patron housing in the complex that includes the temple. Same with the Taipei Thailand and Sydney Australia Temples.

I found this facebook page https://www.facebook.com/pages/LDS-L-A-Temple-Patrons-Apartments/117454491607507 for LDS LA Temple Patrons Apartments. However it may not be directly owned and operated by the Church like the units I have mentioned earlier.

Frieberg Germany Temple also has Patron Housing. The Hong Kong Temple also operates Temple Patron Housing.

The two temples in Britain and the Tokyo Temple also have Patron housing facilities.

So do the Tegucigalpa Temple in Honduras, the Cebu City Temple. Mexico City Temple does as well. Apparently so do the Kyiv Temple, the Helsinki Temple and the Quezaltenango Guatemala Temple. The Accra Ghana Temple also has patron housing.

Whether a temple has patron housing may be a deciding factor in choosing a temple that takes longer to get to. The Manila Temple also has Patron housing.

John Pack Lambert said...

The Aba Nigeria Temple also has patron housing. Even though it is in eastern Nigeria, nor far from the Cameroon border, the actual travel time for a group coming from Cameroon to the temple was 64 hours to get there per this blog post http://www.bsmarkham.com/mission/Africa/Aug%2005/aba.html It might be less if one travled in the dry season, assuming there is such a think in Nigeria and Cameroon.

John Pack Lambert said...

However is the Ciudad Juarez Temple is a part of Ciudad Juarez with high crime (although maybe there are not low crime parts of the city, but I expect there are). I know when the Ogden Temple was built some were surprised it was built in the central part of the city, which had a historical reputation for high crime rates.

I could see the Church placing the 2nd temple in Lima by the airport. I noticed in reading about the Lisbon Temple it is being built just a metro stop or two from the airport. This will make the journey there much easier for the members from Capo Verde and also those from the Azores and Maidera, the latter two groups unlikely to get a temple in the foreseable future, Capo Verde more likely to get a temple, but probably not announced until after Lisbon is done.

John Pack Lambert said...

Does anyone have good estimates of travel times to the temple for members in various parts of Lima. So is Lima the biggest city after Sao Paulo and Mexico City. I have to admit I did not realize it was quite that big.

The Campinas Brazil Temple is barely outside of the Sao Paulo area. The travel distance from city to city there is 62 miles. Provo to Ogden is 81 miles. Las Vegas to St. George is 120 miles.

If I run the states for Callao, I get 8 miles from Lima. Boise to Meridian gives me 9 miles. However Callao is not actually part of Lima. This is not to say I do not think it is possible a temple will be built there. What it is to say is that we do not yet know that Lima will be as it currently says in the Wikipedia article on the Lima Temple "the first city outside of Utah with two temples".

Lima takes in just over 1 thousand square miles. Boise has 80 square miles. So if Boise had annexed as much of its urban area as has Lima, than the Meridian Temple would probably be within Boise's boundaries. In fact Lima has an area of 1,031 square miles to Ada County, Idaho, where both Boise and Meridian are, having an area of 1,053. However Boise and Meridian are both located in the norther half if not less of the area of Ada County. The only city that is close to the southern part of the county is Kuna, which went from 5,000 people in 2000 to 15,000 in 2010. I remain unconvinced that what is going on in Lima is unique outside Utah, at least until we get good info.

John Pack Lambert said...

Depending on how space is counted, the 10,700 square feet may be outdated for several of the temples built just around 2000. I know that the Detroit Temple that was dedicated in 1999 originally had a very small entrance way. A few years ago the entrance was changed, with much of the area that had been outdoor space under an overhang enclosed to be part of the temple building. I am not sure if this would count as increasing the space the temple covers.

Jim Coles said...

To continue with museums and visitors centers not endorsed officially by the church, I just recently moved to the Dallas metro area and learned of a Mormon settlement in Kelsey, TX with a museum opened on Mondays only. I have yet to visit there but hope to soon. I know the town is now considered abandoned but there are some members that live nearby from what I have read that help maintain the place. I am very intrigued by the history there and I think it would be neat if the Church sponsored some kind of site there just to get a sense of the Mormon settlement life.

John Pack Lambert said...

Gilmer Texas has two wards largely as a legacy of Gilmer and Enoch. Those settlements were the brainchild of John H Morgan Southern States Mission as a way for the Saints in the south to benefit from joint association without having to go to a land with a different climate. I hope Gilmer will one day have a temple.

Jerimiah Bullfrog said...

Easier maybe, but not really cost effective.

They enlarged the Ogden temple largely out of necessity. And, in that case, the enlargement was not nearly enough. I think it ended up costing the church enough for two temples, and they really could have used a second temple in the South Weber County or North Davis County areas. Even with the recent enlargement and the new Brigham City Temple, the Ogden Temple is literally busting at the seams from full capacity.

In the future, I highly doubt we will see enlargements for any temples. After Ogden, I think it is clear the Church would rather just build a second temple in area if needed. Which is exactly what they did for Provo and, now, Lima.

Steven Kent said...

According to mormonsud.net, the patron housing at Sao Paulo is being converted into a Visitor's Center. Evidently, with the construction of other temples in the area (Campinas and Curitiba, and soon Rio de Janeiro), the patron housing is not being used consistently anymore.

John Pack Lambert said...

That is good news about a visitors center being added at the Sao Paulo Temple. I hope we see a visitors center at one of the temples in Lima as well.

John Pack Lambert said...

That is good news about a visitors center being added at the Sao Paulo Temple. I hope we see a visitors center at one of the temples in Lima as well.

Gracie said...

Ogden was reduced from about 130,000 SF to about 115,000 SF. The purpose for the renovation, given to those living in the temple district, was seismic. We expected because of that to hear that Provo would be rebuilt as well, but there hasn't been a mention of it yet. Although it was largely a seismic upgrade, the foundation was kept in order to work with the city on a remodel as opposed to a new-build. That was a 6-digit savings. The new exterior walls are cantilevered outside of the old foundation by 3 feet, so the footprint is larger at least.

Speaking for myself alone, it was difficult to see the Ogden Temple look worse and worse as they cut the spire for an Angel Moroni statue that has no business being on some spires, and painted the spire white. It was a beautiful building inside even at the end. I was in the last volunteer group to clean it before it was torn down. The new interior is bland and since I am an interior designer and architect myself I don't mince words on this; someone was asleep at work and didn't care when they designed the new interior. My co-worker friends of other faiths thought the same; they made the openhouse trip and wished they hadn't. If I were still in the Ogden area I would go to Brigham City Temple, which was well done, or Bountiful just to not have heart ache for a temple I miss while looking at the new building, thinking the whole time how awful that someone went through the motions on something that sould be our best, even a sacrifice. Beige, beige, beige, beige.

Whizzbang said...

Winnipeg is having their stake conference this weekend, maybe they'll announce the Temple approval? it's funny i've seen stats saying their are over 4 thousand members living here, whereas in reality it's just over 3000 with about 1200 "active" and about 500 with recommends. I hope these 1200 mysterious members show up!

Eduardo Clinch said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Eduardo Clinch said...

A friend of mine named Jennifer served her mission in Manitowba and then married a local in or around Winnipeg. Do they live there now?

Whizzbang said...

do you have a last name by chance or his first name?

James said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
James said...

Interesting tidbit for those of you following temple news: The LDS Church Temples site announced yesterday (Friday) that the name of the second Lima Peru Temple would be the Lima Peru Los Olivos Temple. Additionally, the site reports that the Durban South Africa temple, which had a groundbreaking earlier this month, is anticipated to be completed in early 2018, ahead of several other temples for which ground was broken earlier. The site also reports that the reason the construction of the Fortaleza Brazil temple has not progressed beyond groundbreaking in five years is because of government-imposed delays. Time alone will tell if/when that construction will progress. Speaking of temples, I would like to see Matt do an updated list of states in the US that do not have a temple. The last time he did so appears to be 2011, and much has changed since then. Also, my team leader at work, who served a mission in Arkansas, reports that land has been purchased for a temple to be in Bentonville. It will be interesting to see if/when that one will be officially announced. It is great to see temples progressing. I still think that, if the Church wanted to, they could easily set and reach a goal of 200 temples by the 200th anniversary of the Church on April 6, 2030. We only have 27 more that would need to be announced, and, according to LDS Church temples, we could have as many as 164 completed by the end of 2018, leaving 36 to be completed within the next 11 years, which equals out to a little more than 3 that would need to be completed each subsequent year between January 2019 and April 2030, which is more than doable. I will keep an eye on all future temple-related developments, and, you can be sure and find the latest on my blog at stokessoundsoff.blogspot.com. Hope this comment has added something to this conversation.