I don't think we made it to 32, but the list was still quite sizable. I'm surprised that they are building a second temple in Santiago de Chile, rather than in Vina del Mar or Valparaiso.
With the way President Nelson is going, we probably shouldn't rule out an announcement for Vina del Mar/Valparaiso in the next few years, even with a second in Santiago.
@Cody Quirk, what stake do you have as #34 for 2021? In Matt's monthly Cumorah Newsletter, he listed 1 stake twice by accident, same stake listed with start date 09/05 and 09/12. I had posted here on 09/11 that it was already in the Classic Maps website. So it had to be on 09/05, not 09/12. I hope this clarifies your question.
The outreach into the smaller islands in Papua New Guinea needs to pick up. New Ireland has twice the population of Tonga. I guess on the other hand DR Congo with over 100 million people dwarfs both.
We did make it to 34 temples announced in 2021. How many were actually announced in 1998? We may have exceeded that number, whatever it was.
There is a small chance another temple or two will be announced this year, but it is probably close to none.
Not to get into eugenics or tribalism or those people possibly foreordained to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ more than others, but as is I feel like Tonga and some other Polynesians are more prone to accept and run with the Church. Cultural and linguistic factors influence it, such as cultural mores and even language. While growth of our faith may grow in significant ways in Papua New Guinea, the language barriers alone offer huge challenges. This is true in many nations of Africa, Asia, parts of Latin America, even Europe. (Think of the Lapp, the Basque, the Romansch, or Gypsies. Great Britain has some micro-cultures that are relatively untouched by missionary efforts, to my knowledge. This happens in North America, too, even without language differences. Fascinating world we live in.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been in Tonga for over 110 years, in New Guinea for only about 40.
There are other factors in Tonga. One key was operating a high school. The first two Tongan Temple presidents were Tongans who had spent most of their careers as teachers at that high school.
Do not underestimate the positive effects of great men like Tonga Tournai Paletu'a, the first Tongan to be a stake patriarch, stake president, mission president, regional representative and temple president in that order.
Yet in the early 1930s over half of the missionaries in Tonga were Excommunicated and President Grant considered closing the mission.
In the early 20th-century a much higher percentage of Tongan members had partial German ancestry than the nation as a whole. This also plays out in Samoa, but I think the mixes race population is larger in Samoa, although clear numbers are at times elusive. One theory is that those of mixed German descent did not have the same types if cultural connections that made baptism hard for some of the fully Tongans. The issues are complex.
I believe that the United Methodists became big by the late 1800s in the Tongan archipelago, and this faith, I feel, is very compatible with the Restored Church of Jesus Christ. John Wesley wanted a better method of evangelization of the Church, not to found his own faith. A bit like Lutheranism, in my opinion. Any way, I think the inroads of good Bible knowledge and practice helped the Tongans assimilate as good members of the Church, once overcoming the stigma or challenges (see Moroni) of the Book of Mormon and other non-traditional precepts of God and Jesus, etcetera. The Maori are another case of inside growth by connections to culture. I already mentioned I attend church with a Micronesian, he speaks Pohnpei, which might be where a temple goes someday. Island has the same name. Way to go Madagascar! Only a few more major islands with significant populations that need temples: Java and other large Indonesian isles, the shared island of Borneo, renamed now, Sri Lanka, Iceland, and maybe Bahrein? What am I missing? Labrador or the island of Newfoundland and PEI may count as well. Sardinia? Sicily? Crete and Cyprus? Cuba and Jamaica, of course… The islands are getting them. Tasmania, someday. Both New Zealand north and south will have them, yes?
The United Methodist Church has roots in the US, although today it has more members in Congo, Liberia and other African countries combined than in the US.
It is actually the United Methodist Church because it reunited the northern and southern branches of Methodism in the 1960s that had been severed by the United States Civil War. Actually I think the severing predated the Civil War, and while views on slaveholding aged a part, there were other issues.
I believe Methodism in Tonga has its roots in the London Missionary Society.
A large percentage of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have come from Methodist backgrounds. Not just in the early days of the Church. I want to say Helio de Rocha Camargo, the first general authority from Brazil, had been Methodist before joining the Church. Not just Methodist, but a Methodist minister.
The United Methodist Church is the largest Protestant body headquartered in the US, but there are more Southern Baptist in the US. This is because the United Methodists are majority non-American unlike most other Protestant bodies.
Most African-American baptists and Methodists belong to majority black denominations. However the Southern Baptists have had an African-American head.
Of course the rise of often independent Churches, some of which are megachurches and some of which are dinky denominations has complicated things.
Despite what some media gripes say, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not much longer than say The Church of God in Christ. I have never seen a media reference fail to use the correct name of that Church, even though dome of their buildings say COGIC. The Church of God in Christ is the largest majority African-American, or at least historically African-Amwrican Prntecostal Church in the US, and maybe second only to the National Baptst Church among majority African-American denominations in size. They are also the only majority Africqn-American Church in the US with an explicitly pro-life political stance.
Loving in Detroit I drive past multiple Church of God in Christ congregations daily. I think there may be two in the less than 2 miles from my house to the chapel of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I attend if I take Mack Avenue.
A large majority of Tongans belong to the Free Wesleyan Church. Although it has its roots in Methodism, it is not part of the United Methodist Church. They are more conservative and discourage the use and/or abuse of alcohol, tobacco, and drugs. They are also especially committed to keeping the Sabbath Day holy. These more conservative beliefs may also be a factor in their receptiveness to the Gospel.
Greenland is the largest island and lacks a temple. New Guinea has one planned. Borne lacks a temple. Madagascar comes in 3rd. Baffin Island and Sumatea both lack times. Honshu number 8 has one. Victoria Island lacks one, Britain has 2. In all only a third of the islands over 100,000 Square kilometers have temples in operation or announced. Of the 27 additional islands over 25,000 square kilometers only 4 have announced or operational temples.
If we look at population Java with 141 million is the most populous island. It lacks a temple. Honshu, Great Britain and Luzon each have at least one temple. Sumatra with 50 million people lacks one. Madagascar comes in 6th with 25.6 million people. Borne rounds out the top 10 of islands by population and is the next to lack a temple. Although this counts mainland Australia as an island. Sri Lanka is the most populous non-Indonesian Island, at least fully non-Indonesian island that lacks a temple. The next most populous non-Indonesian island lacking a temple is Salsette, which is basically part of Mumbai and has 15 million people. Cuba and Hainan are the only remaining islands with over 10 million inhabitants that lack temples. Not counting Australia 9 of the 17 Islands over 10 million people have temples operational or announced.
Long Island, Ireland and Singapore round out the top 20, so half of the 20 most populous islands have temples. Sicily and Panay are the next most populous non-Indonesian templeless islands. 8 of the islands from 21-40 have temples, including Leyte where one was just announced, and Zealand Island where Copehagen is. Unless the Montreal temple is not on the island of Montreal. Only 2 or 3 more of the 56 islands with over 1 million people have temples, depending on if the Hong Kong Temple is on Hong Kong Island. Okinawa Island is one such island. Of the 25 Islands with between 500,000 and 1 million people only Oahu has a temple. Of the 100 most populous islands somewhere between 19 and 21,have temples announced or operational. 8 of those only have announced temples.
Shinobu is Japan has almost 4 million people and no temple and Panay in the Phillipines has 4.5 million people and no temple.
I am not sure what the island with the most stakes with no temple announced would be. It might be the Samoan Island with no temple announced. Long Island has 4 or 4.5 stakes and no temple.
I think for some analysis purposes we should exclude islands from which you can drive to the mainland, and only count islands where travel by vehicle elsewhere is not doable.
FYI, getting from Long Island to Manhattan is just crossing a bridge, I would completely eliminate it from any island analysis. I lived in Queens (on Long Island) for 7 years and commuted to work in Manhattan every weekday as did millions of others.
For that matter Salsette probably does not really belong. It is far from Bangalaru, but it is no harder to get there than from other equally far out parts of India.
However in the Philippines, Japan and Indonesia having multiple islands does play out. It is telling that Japan has only 1 temple on any island. Although I can not say if the 4th temple will be on Honshu or Shinobu.
The Montreal temple is not on Montreal Island, but in Longueuil which is on the southern shore of the St. Lawrence River. (There are bridges across the river though, and at least when I was there one of the metro lines went under the river and had 1 or 2 stations on the south shore.)
Right, I suppose “islands with significant populations” is relative. How many smaller islands in the world have more people than all of massive Greenland? Many in each of the three biggest oceans, plus the large seas. I would love to see populated places like Guadeloupe or Martinique get their own temples, or even smaller chains like the isolated Azores. We need more missionaries, that is for sure.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI got it on my Iphone. Only one page, but pretty good.
ReplyDelete32 temples announced?
I don't think we made it to 32, but the list was still quite sizable. I'm surprised that they are building a second temple in Santiago de Chile, rather than in Vina del Mar or Valparaiso.
ReplyDelete@Pascal Friedmann
DeleteWith the way President Nelson is going, we probably shouldn't rule out an announcement for Vina del Mar/Valparaiso in the next few years, even with a second in Santiago.
13 was my count
ReplyDeleteHey Matt, I think you forgot to add new stake #34 to the list for New Stakes in 2021, imo.
ReplyDelete@Cody Quirk, what stake do you have as #34 for 2021? In Matt's monthly Cumorah Newsletter, he listed 1 stake twice by accident, same stake listed with start date 09/05 and 09/12. I had posted here on 09/11 that it was already in the Classic Maps website. So it had to be on 09/05, not 09/12. I hope this clarifies your question.
ReplyDeleteThe outreach into the smaller islands in Papua New Guinea needs to pick up. New Ireland has twice the population of Tonga. I guess on the other hand DR Congo with over 100 million people dwarfs both.
ReplyDeleteWe did make it to 34 temples announced in 2021. How many were actually announced in 1998? We may have exceeded that number, whatever it was.
There is a small chance another temple or two will be announced this year, but it is probably close to none.
Not to get into eugenics or tribalism or those people possibly foreordained to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ more than others, but as is I feel like Tonga and some other Polynesians are more prone to accept and run with the Church. Cultural and linguistic factors influence it, such as cultural mores and even language.
ReplyDeleteWhile growth of our faith may grow in significant ways in Papua New Guinea, the language barriers alone offer huge challenges. This is true in many nations of Africa, Asia, parts of Latin America, even Europe. (Think of the Lapp, the Basque, the Romansch, or Gypsies. Great Britain has some micro-cultures that are relatively untouched by missionary efforts, to my knowledge.
This happens in North America, too, even without language differences.
Fascinating world we live in.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been in Tonga for over 110 years, in New Guinea for only about 40.
DeleteThere are other factors in Tonga. One key was operating a high school. The first two Tongan Temple presidents were Tongans who had spent most of their careers as teachers at that high school.
Do not underestimate the positive effects of great men like Tonga Tournai Paletu'a, the first Tongan to be a stake patriarch, stake president, mission president, regional representative and temple president in that order.
Yet in the early 1930s over half of the missionaries in Tonga were Excommunicated and President Grant considered closing the mission.
In the early 20th-century a much higher percentage of Tongan members had partial German ancestry than the nation as a whole. This also plays out in Samoa, but I think the mixes race population is larger in Samoa, although clear numbers are at times elusive. One theory is that those of mixed German descent did not have the same types if cultural connections that made baptism hard for some of the fully Tongans. The issues are complex.
I believe that the United Methodists became big by the late 1800s in the Tongan archipelago, and this faith, I feel, is very compatible with the Restored Church of Jesus Christ. John Wesley wanted a better method of evangelization of the Church, not to found his own faith. A bit like Lutheranism, in my opinion. Any way, I think the inroads of good Bible knowledge and practice helped the Tongans assimilate as good members of the Church, once overcoming the stigma or challenges (see Moroni) of the Book of Mormon and other non-traditional precepts of God and Jesus, etcetera.
ReplyDeleteThe Maori are another case of inside growth by connections to culture.
I already mentioned I attend church with a Micronesian, he speaks Pohnpei, which might be where a temple goes someday. Island has the same name.
Way to go Madagascar!
Only a few more major islands with significant populations that need temples: Java and other large Indonesian isles, the shared island of Borneo, renamed now, Sri Lanka, Iceland, and maybe Bahrein? What am I missing?
Labrador or the island of Newfoundland and PEI may count as well. Sardinia? Sicily? Crete and Cyprus? Cuba and Jamaica, of course…
The islands are getting them. Tasmania, someday. Both New Zealand north and south will have them, yes?
The United Methodist Church has roots in the US, although today it has more members in Congo, Liberia and other African countries combined than in the US.
DeleteIt is actually the United Methodist Church because it reunited the northern and southern branches of Methodism in the 1960s that had been severed by the United States Civil War. Actually I think the severing predated the Civil War, and while views on slaveholding aged a part, there were other issues.
I believe Methodism in Tonga has its roots in the London Missionary Society.
A large percentage of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have come from Methodist backgrounds. Not just in the early days of the Church. I want to say Helio de Rocha Camargo, the first general authority from Brazil, had been Methodist before joining the Church. Not just Methodist, but a Methodist minister.
The United Methodist Church is the largest Protestant body headquartered in the US, but there are more Southern Baptist in the US. This is because the United Methodists are majority non-American unlike most other Protestant bodies.
Most African-American baptists and Methodists belong to majority black denominations. However the Southern Baptists have had an African-American head.
Of course the rise of often independent Churches, some of which are megachurches and some of which are dinky denominations has complicated things.
Despite what some media gripes say, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not much longer than say The Church of God in Christ. I have never seen a media reference fail to use the correct name of that Church, even though dome of their buildings say COGIC. The Church of God in Christ is the largest majority African-American, or at least historically African-Amwrican Prntecostal Church in the US, and maybe second only to the National Baptst Church among majority African-American denominations in size. They are also the only majority Africqn-American Church in the US with an explicitly pro-life political stance.
Loving in Detroit I drive past multiple Church of God in Christ congregations daily. I think there may be two in the less than 2 miles from my house to the chapel of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I attend if I take Mack Avenue.
There are islands larger than Madagascar that lack temples, such as Greenland.
DeleteHowever some of those island lack much population.
I could list Ireland, Cuba, Long Island in New York, Jamaica, the Bahamas, the south Island of New Zealand and so many more
A large majority of Tongans belong to the Free Wesleyan Church. Although it has its roots in Methodism, it is not part of the United Methodist Church. They are more conservative and discourage the use and/or abuse of alcohol, tobacco, and drugs. They are also especially committed to keeping the Sabbath Day holy. These more conservative beliefs may also be a factor in their receptiveness to the Gospel.
ReplyDeleteOh.
ReplyDeleteGreenland is the largest island and lacks a temple. New Guinea has one planned. Borne lacks a temple. Madagascar comes in 3rd. Baffin Island and Sumatea both lack times. Honshu number 8 has one. Victoria Island lacks one, Britain has 2. In all only a third of the islands over 100,000 Square kilometers have temples in operation or announced. Of the 27 additional islands over 25,000 square kilometers only 4 have announced or operational temples.
ReplyDeleteIf we look at population Java with 141 million is the most populous island. It lacks a temple. Honshu, Great Britain and Luzon each have at least one temple. Sumatra with 50 million people lacks one. Madagascar comes in 6th with 25.6 million people. Borne rounds out the top 10 of islands by population and is the next to lack a temple. Although this counts mainland Australia as an island. Sri Lanka is the most populous non-Indonesian Island, at least fully non-Indonesian island that lacks a temple. The next most populous non-Indonesian island lacking a temple is Salsette, which is basically part of Mumbai and has 15 million people. Cuba and Hainan are the only remaining islands with over 10 million inhabitants that lack temples. Not counting Australia 9 of the 17 Islands over 10 million people have temples operational or announced.
ReplyDeleteLong Island, Ireland and Singapore round out the top 20, so half of the 20 most populous islands have temples. Sicily and Panay are the next most populous non-Indonesian templeless islands. 8 of the islands from 21-40 have temples, including Leyte where one was just announced, and Zealand Island where Copehagen is. Unless the Montreal temple is not on the island of Montreal. Only 2 or 3 more of the 56 islands with over 1 million people have temples, depending on if the Hong Kong Temple is on Hong Kong Island. Okinawa Island is one such island. Of the 25 Islands with between 500,000 and 1 million people only Oahu has a temple. Of the 100 most populous islands somewhere between 19 and 21,have temples announced or operational. 8 of those only have announced temples.
Shinobu is Japan has almost 4 million people and no temple and Panay in the Phillipines has 4.5 million people and no temple.
I am not sure what the island with the most stakes with no temple announced would be. It might be the Samoan Island with no temple announced. Long Island has 4 or 4.5 stakes and no temple.
I think for some analysis purposes we should exclude islands from which you can drive to the mainland, and only count islands where travel by vehicle elsewhere is not doable.
FYI, getting from Long Island to Manhattan is just crossing a bridge, I would completely eliminate it from any island analysis. I lived in Queens (on Long Island) for 7 years and commuted to work in Manhattan every weekday as did millions of others.
ReplyDeleteFor that matter Salsette probably does not really belong. It is far from Bangalaru, but it is no harder to get there than from other equally far out parts of India.
DeleteHowever in the Philippines, Japan and Indonesia having multiple islands does play out. It is telling that Japan has only 1 temple on any island. Although I can not say if the 4th temple will be on Honshu or Shinobu.
The Montreal temple is not on Montreal Island, but in Longueuil which is on the southern shore of the St. Lawrence River. (There are bridges across the river though, and at least when I was there one of the metro lines went under the river and had 1 or 2 stations on the south shore.)
ReplyDeleteRight, I suppose “islands with significant populations” is relative. How many smaller islands in the world have more people than all of massive Greenland? Many in each of the three biggest oceans, plus the large seas.
ReplyDeleteI would love to see populated places like Guadeloupe or Martinique get their own temples, or even smaller chains like the isolated Azores. We need more missionaries, that is for sure.