I have enjoyed reading through the hundreds of comments regarding temple predictions for this coming October General Conference. Something that has been apparent to me as I have reviewed recent temple announcements and the comments for my previous blog post is that the Church has placed an emphasis on building more temples in remote areas of the world or in places where there are comparatively few members regardless of recent growth trends since 2018. My traditional method to predict and identify likely temple sites has primarily been based on factors that have appeared most correlated with previous temple announcements in the past 20 years from approximately 2001 to 2017. However, it appears that it may be appropriate to provide two top 10 lists to better account for this recent change in temple announcement trends - one that uses the traditional method to identify likely locations to have a temple announced (i.e., number of stakes, age of the oldest stake, rate of church growth, proximity to the nearest temple, level of usage of the nearest temple by temple patrons) and another that predicts new temple locations based on other criteria (i.e., distance to the nearest temple, duration of a church presence in the location, at least one stake). Thus, I have provided my top 10 list for likely locations for new temple announcements based upon the latter criteria. These temples would be small temples given the small size of the Church and slow rate of growth in the area that each potential temple would serve:
- Glasgow, Scotland
- Tirana, Albania
- Hobart, Australia
- Christchurch, New Zealand
- Kingston, Jamaica
- Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
- Fairbanks, Alaska
- Augusta, Maine
- Rapid City, South Dakota
- Las Palmas, Canary Islands, Spain
These distance alone temples would be great to see. I still think we should mobilize temples on buses, planes, or ships. I bet a tent complex could do the trick, also. (Sound familiar, tribes of Israel?)
ReplyDeleteIt will be great to see any and all of these places get temples.
Are there really twelve U.S. states without a temple still, as someone wrote?
Wisconsin, South Dakota, 4 in New England, West Virginia, and Mississippi? Am I missing… Delaware, D.C (not a state). I feel like the rest are covered, but I could be wrong.
Curious about Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Argentina.
How are the Philippines subdivided?
Great time to see the temples expand.
Iowa, Kansas, and New Jersey as well. I’m not counting DC, since even though the temple isn’t in its borders, the Maryland temple is called the Washington DC temple.
DeleteVermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Delaware, Rhode Island, New Jersey, West Virginia, Mississippi, Iowa, Kansas, Wisconsin, and South Dakota do not have temples within their borders. However a few of them have temples nearby in cities just across their borders. Kansas City MO, Manhattan NY, Philadelphia PA, Winter Quarters (Omaha NB) Nauvoo IL and maybe Minneapolis MN temples are all in borders cities of states that don't have temples. Many can be considered part of the same metropolitan area. I think that Iowa, and New Jersey have two nearby at opposite sides of their states.
DeleteSt. Paul is not a border city. Memphis does touch the Mississippi border, but I am thinking the community the temple is in does not touch the border.
DeleteHowever with Iowa, Kansas. Mississippi and New Jersey you can create a de facto boundary with a temple in it and leave the surrounding state all with temples. Put another way Illinois, New York, Missouri and Tennessee all have 2 temples.
Interestingly enough, the Brethren spent years debating (during the 50s/60s) the feasibility of a sailing ship-temple, that would sail around the world and dock at ports where international members were in need of a temple close by. It was seriously debated and considered, but eventually abandoned as impractical. I tend to agree with the impracticality of it. It's a fascinating concept, nevertheless.
ReplyDeleteMatt, Did you avoid "Antananarivo Madagascar" on your Top 20 List this go around, due to it's proximity to both Durban South Africa and Beira Mozambique sites? It could potentially have at least 2 Stakes and 5 Districts in the immediate vicinity of the Island nation. I also believe it was among the Top 10 nations with most members without a temple. Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteI for one do not think Durban or Beira have any effect on the likelihood of Antanarivo getting a temple. Journey's across ocean generally are not easy, and Antanarivo I'd not Eben on the coast. So it is both international and either costly air or long by land and water. Beira is 830 miles and Durban is 1282. The former is just a bit more than Salt Lake to Seattle, and the later just a bit more than Salt Lake to Nauvoo.
DeleteA deep analysis can be found here. http://www.thisweekinmormons.com/2021/09/a-data-driven-approach-to-temple-predictions/
ReplyDeleteLess likely chance of having a temple in Myrtle Beach South Carolina, but lets hope so!
ReplyDeleteProbably not going to see Myrtle Beach for a while because the most likely upcoming changes to the boundaries of the Columbia South Carolina temple are moving the Savannah GA stake to a future Jacksonville FL temple and splitting off the Charlotte NC area stakes to form a new temple there. Given how close Charlotte is to Columbia, how close Jacksonville is to Orlando, and how few stakes would be in either temple district, I am less bullish on either site than most of the posters here. There's also only one stake (Conway) anywhere near Myrtle Beach, which is less than 200 miles/3 hours from its temple, so I think it'll take quite a bit of missionary work to get a core group of Myrtle Beach area stakes and make that a more attractive temple target than, say, Charleston.
ReplyDeleteHow long has the church been in Albania?
ReplyDeleteIs there a resource/tool that tells us the year of the first stake established in each country?
ReplyDeleteOr state/province, etc.
DeleteI like all of these -- thanks for giving them some consideration!
ReplyDeleteThere's another one I'd like to pitch in, as well. I admit I'm biased since I live in the Champaign stake, but it was actually on my radar since before then. A small temple in Champaign Illinois would cover a lot of land and likely three stakes (Champaign, Springfield, Peoria). Many members in those stakes travel two hours or more to a temple, in good weather.
Do they go to Nauvoo St. Louis or Chicago?
DeleteThere are few temple districts in the US east of the rockies that do not have members traveling over 2 hours.
@Butterfly and Bones, time to put in a plug for cumorah.com, which Matt works on and which answers a lot of the questions like "how long has the Church been in Albania?" Because of communism, the answer is "not long." First senior missionaries didn't get to Albania until the mid-1990s. Since this is a temple-focused thread, I'll add that there is exactly one stake in the country, organized 7 years ago, which reportedly still relies on foreign Church help a lot, as they've struggled with having things like enough Melchizedek Priesthood holders to run congregations. This feels like Brasilia a few years ago, where returned missionaries would be optimistic for medium-term temple prospects, but flat-out deny that the area was ready for a temple yet. I think it'll come, but it'll need a few years. Hopefully pandemic closing of a lot of the foreign help is going to be good and not terrible for Albania. (And Matt and others with more primary sources than the Cumorah website, please chip in if you have more recent info.)
ReplyDeleteSo Albania has had its stake 7 years. Tahiti had its stake 8 years when a temple was announced. However the Church had been there 136 years at that point, as opposed to less than 30 in Albania. Also French Polynesia had at that point probably 3 districts beyond the stake, while Albania only has 1. I think the distance to the next closest planned temple an the effective earning time for members to get the money to go to the temple were more in Tahiti as well.
DeleteI think Tirana will get the first temple in the Balkans, but I doubt it will be announced this year. I could be wrong though.
@Alex, thanks so much for directing me to the Cumorah website. I've been looking for a resource just like this and I am fascinated and probably spend too much of my time on it. 😃
DeleteThe Church in Albania has a major diaspora, especially towards Germany and Austria. In my home stake in Germany, Albanians don't make up a significant percentage of the population, but they are a visible minority among members (and ward and stake leaders).
ReplyDeleteA temple in Albania would hopefully encourage members to stay in their home country and build the Church there, although the reasons for leaving home are probably more diverse in most cases.
The ward I grew up in had lots of Albanians resident in it. Sometime the missionaries would teach some but I am not sure we ever baptized any. When I was in the YSA branch my home ward did get a member Albanian family move in. They moved away maybe a year later. I believe the dad in that family had been a leader in Albania, maybe even in the district presidency. This was back in roughly 2007. I think there was a woman in the YSA unit also from Albania at the time.
DeleteMost of the Albanians I knew growing up were devout Catholics from Montenegro.
Just saw in a national article on an unrelated subject that Lehi now has nearly 75k people, that heightens the likelihood of that Lehi site being announced as being for a temple.
ReplyDeleteYes, although some thought the Saratoga Springs temple ruled out one in Lehi. I think Saratoga Springs has at least 25,000 alone, and then Eagle Mountain has about that, and I may be under estimating. So another temple in Lehi is believable.
DeleteHas there been any new stakes created or new stakes going to be created this month? Not counting the recently created Port Harcourt Nigeria Central stake and Bujumbura, Burundi district.
ReplyDelete-Austin
Austin, yes. The Morehead City NC stake was recently created.
ReplyDeleteRight, I forgot about Iowa and New Jersey not having temples! Distance wise would necessitate a temple in Iowa, which likely would be central, I think. Like Des Moines, which has a good sized population, but have to check the stakes.
ReplyDeleteNew Jersey is close to Manhattan and Philly, which could take a while to finally get.
Having driven Boston to the Rhode Island coast recently, it is not too hard for temple access there.
Any reports on the UAE or China temples? Or Russia?
Cumorah.com is a tremendous resource. All the info at our finger tips is amazing. I do miss the Church almanac in print, but we cannot have everything and perhaps the costs saved there all for other physical and spiritual growth.
Despite all those who doubt, fall away, give up, move on, the Restored Church is fulfilling the visions and prophesies of the Bible, other scriptures, and the Lord Himself. We are blessed, despite the pandemic and other obstacles to faith in Jesus and His anointed.
Madagascar needs a temple, yes.
Iowa has the same issue as New Jersey. It has 2 temples in cities that literally border it. In fact the templesay be closer to the border, but Manhattan and Philly temples are both so close to New Jersey that it is hard to believe. Nauvoo may be the one that the driving distance to the next state is highest, because if I recall correctly there is no bridge at Nauvoo.
DeleteOn the other hand Nauvoo stake is sit between Iowa, Illinois and Missouri. That said Des Moines got a 2nd stake recently, and eastern Iowa has gotten at least 1 New stake since the Nauvoo Temple was dedicated. Plus I seem to recall Nebraska getting a new stake. So it is possible Des Moines will get a temple.
New Jersey could also get a temple, but I am not sure if that or a temple in Albany/Utica or somewhere else in New York state would make more sense.
On Iowa, I heard the coordinating council is working on getting things to a point where one could be announced. That usually means but is not limited to, full-tithe payers, sacrament attendance, etc.
ReplyDeleteIn regard to Albania, I do agree with the sentiment that one deterrent to a temple is the mass population decrease in the balkans generally. At least in regard to Croatia, it is estimated that there are more ethnic Croatians living outside of Croatia than in Croatia. I believe that this applies to all the nations of the balkans (including Albania) and would even posit that there is a higher percentage of out-of-balkan peoples being members of the church than the balkan peoples who still remain in their ancestral lands.
ReplyDeleteJohn, Champaign goes to Indianapolis technically, but in my experience many in the southern part of the stake tend to prefer St. Louis for a number of reasons. From Mattoon for example, we can drive on the Interstate all the way to the temple, while it's mostly rural driving with sometimes adverse conditions during the winter for a good chunk of the way to Indianapolis. It really depends on where you start out though; it's quite a large area.
ReplyDeletePeoria is in the Nauvoo district. Springfield is in the St. Louis district. Neither stake is particularly close to their assigned temple.
While I don't think that driving time of 2 to 3 hours is a reason a stake would get a temple on its own, having three stakes near each other for which those distances apply makes Champaign a dark horse and one of the better candidates in the Midwest, in my opinion.
The fact that the new temple would on paper take just 1 stake from 3 other temples is probably good. Also Indianapolis just got another stake.
DeleteConsidering Elko and Grand Junction getting temples Champaign does not seem that out of reach.
Also if the placing a temple by students was a key factor with Ephraim,than Champaign seems a stronger candidate.
I would also on that note predict Madison. Wisconsin; Lansing, Michigan (the Church owns enough land by the Institute building there to bud a temple); Tempe. Arizona; Price, Utah and maybe placing the San Jose/Palo Alto temple close to Stanford. Also Buena Vista, Virginia. There might also be a few other possibilities, like one by the University of Chicago, but I sort of think there Chicago city center would be better, but both seem unlikely short term.
76 possible locations , by stakes in temple district
ReplyDelete1-Luanda.Lusaka.Majuro.Noumea.Panasang
2-Lome.Tirana.PuntaArenas.Ra’atea.Dublin
3-Kampala.Abuja.Iquitos.Teresina.VilaVelha
4-Neuquen.Wellington.Bo.Bakersfield.Durango
5-Barcelona.Sorocaba.Glasgow.Busan.TaclobanC
6-Monrovia.Kananga.Milan.Yopougon.santiagodlc
7-Culiacan.Osorno.portHarcourt.naga.capecoast
8-Rosario.Rivera.RoundRock.HeberC.Price
9-Glendale.Osaka.Rexburg.vina del mar.uyo
Above was TOP 5 per line; Below is ALL.
10-lapaz.limaS.barcelona.sanjose.charlotte.
springville.Angeles.cheltenham
11-spanishfork.joaopessoa.santaana.tacuarembo. romford
12-ftworth.ribeiraopreto.sanpabloC.queen creek. palmdale. summerlin.birmingham
13-mesaE.chiclayo.maracaibo.farmington.s maria
14-Santiago S.Buenos Aires N
15-Bluffdale
16-Tacoma
18-Lehi
28-Mexico City S
What would be the 2nd stake in Tirana temple district?
DeleteCotonou subs in for Tirana, since air from Puglia is poor.
Delete@John Pack Lambert, to answer your question. In my humble opinion, I don't know about a 2nd Stake (per se) in a future Tirana Albania Temple District. In addition to the already Tirana Albania Stake, for sure it would also have the recently organized "Elbasan Albania District". which in theory could advance to a stake by the time a Tirana Temple is constructed and operating. But I believe it could have the neighboring Member Groups in Kosova which is ethnically Albanian and most likely speak Albanian. Also in other areas such as the Beograd Serbia District, or branches as far as Greece and Bulgaria. Or in Sarajevo Bosnia-Herzegovina. Or Crna Gora (Montenegro). This is not an all inclusive list but just my thoughts.
ReplyDeleteI definitely wouldn't think that the temple would serve the members in Serbia. All the Serbian cities with the church (except čačak a group of the Belgrade branch) are closer to the budimpešta, hungrary temple. Especially because right now they are building a high speed train from Belgrade to budimpešta which will also go through novi sad. Idk i think an Albanian temple will be for Montenegro, Greece, Bulgaria, Macedonia, and Bosnia primarily
ReplyDeleteIf one were to look at Mexico for distance wise, Culiacán appears to be the king of distance. 12 hours from Hermosillo and an equal distance to the south. Though for security reasons, don't be surprised if Mazatlan ends up getting the nod instead.
ReplyDeleteI also would not sleep on Cancun. They have 4 stakes in the metro, another in Playa del Carmen, another further south in Chetumal, and one in eastern Yucatan which would be closer to Cancun than to Merida.
I just learned general conference is translated into 98 languages. I think it would be awesome if we could go over 100.
ReplyDeleteNot all those translations are done live though.
The multi cultural choir that was originally slated to sing at April 2020 general conference will be singing at this conference.
ReplyDeleteWorked with the jib operator on some film crews about 15 years ago. He is the one behind the establishing shots behind the Church logo beginning, ending, and at the station-ID break. He said that yes, some are not live, but some are actually from where they live.
ReplyDeleteHe shared a story from another crewman on the Conference, he had to be sure things were going well, so he at times would check the feeds. The one translating for a language associated with Sri Lanka was actually there, and you could hear the crickets chirping in the background as it was night where he was.
On my mission, I had the opportunity to interact with many of those who translate the general conference talks for both Serbian and Croatian languages. From what they said, all the general conference talks are sent out a few weeks in advance, are translated by the translators, then are sent back to Salt Lake. In Salt Lake for the talks which they dub, a person will read the translation in unison with the person offering their address. Things often go ary when an apostle goes off-script (I've heard it happen multiple times myself for Serbian, it gets pretty bad...). I don't know how it is in other countries, but at least in Croatia and Serbia, the members hate the dubbed versions so much that they broadcast the general conference live in English with Croatian or Serbian subtitles, then wait for the talks to get redubbed (they usually rerecord the translations before putting them on the app).
ReplyDeleteI guess this is just a little insight into how (I would guess) most talks are translated.
@Unknown
DeleteYeah, I remember back on my mission hearing some of the Spanish translators getting befuddled when the speaker would go off-script. It was kind of funny in a sad way.
Over 20 years ago my wife translated for Gordon B. Hinkley. She got the talk just a few days before (I heard he had the tendency to wait to turn in his talk). Also often announcements such as new temples are off script. Or the spirit may inspire the speaker to say something more.
ReplyDeleteI had someone asking on the last post about my temple tournament bracket. Here is the link for the one this coming conference:
ReplyDeletehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1M1inFRYjd7FKY55qJCUZPgnpyNwUy5v1/view?usp=sharing
Bryan,
I agree Culiacan is the most likely for the next temple in Mexico.
Having served in Cancun, I would love a temple there as well. The city actually only has three stakes plus the one in Playa. Parts of the Tizimin stake are closer to Merida and have better transportation options. But The stake would probably still be assigned to Cancun. Chetumal is marginally closer to Cancun than Merida. The coming Mayan train will help make it easier to travel. My mission president always said that he believed that Chetumal would get a temple before Cancun so it could serve the people of Belize. He liked to talk big, so I don't know if I believe him.
The City of Chihuahua is also pretty far from the Juarez temples and there are three stakes there. My analysis showed that the temple in Monterrey has the most stakes for its size. Do you think Members in Tamaulipas will be able to travel to McAllen? If not, is a temple in Reynosa or Saltillo viable? The Guadalajara district is also big. A temple in Aguascalientes could cut off some stakes.
Has anybody made a list of temples showing the number of stakes and districts per Square Foot? Maybe include the the possible change that current announcements take from them.
ReplyDeleteAntananarivo Madagascar Temple 🇲🇬
ReplyDeleteUlaanbaatar Mongolia Temple 🇲🇳
Cancún Mexico Temple 🇲🇽
Jakarta Indonesia Temple 🇮🇩
Athens Greece Temple 🇬🇷
Mazatlán Mexico Temple 🇲🇽
Glasgow Scotland Temple 🏴
Dublin Ireland Temple 🇮🇪
Kampala Uganda Temple 🇺🇬
Warsaw Poland Temple 🇵🇱
New Delhi India Temple India 🇮🇳
Athens would be shocking, to say the least. If I remember right, there are only two branches all of Greece. Although none of the others you listed made my prediction list for this conference, I think several of them are likely in the next few years, especially Scotland and Uganda.
DeleteUnless the church wants to call members to go live in Greece to staff the temple, a temple in Greece would not have the local support necessary to run it. All of Greece has barely 800 members on record. Thes has a branch of 20 active members. Athens is a little bigger but not by much. The country is part of a larger mission area including Albania. The missionaries have much more success with refugees that pass through Greece and dont stay.
DeleteGreeks joining the church will take greek heritage members to serve missions there, greeks who understand the culture and can explain that you can still be keep the good things of your culture while joining the church of Jesus Christ.
A temple in Greece is not impossible, it would be a significant sign or miracle that the Greeks have started to soften their hearts.
First and last, as such
RMT: nice touch with the flags, thanks.
ReplyDeleteMontenegro may get a temple before Greece, who knows?
As interesting as that may be I don't think there will be a temple in Montenegro any time soon. In Montenegro currently there is about 5 active members give or take so it will likely be a while
DeleteKSL radio ran a quick story, only seconds long, this morning that said there would be temple announcements this weekend, they just did not say where or how many, included one sound bite from a previous announcement.
ReplyDeleteAs I've previously mentioned, of all the European temples, the only one not announced for a specific city is the temple in Russia. Not long after that announcement, I received feedback from someone who has worked with the Church on temple projects. This individual clarified that the three most likely candidates (in order from most likely to least likely) are Moscow, St. Petersburg, and Saratov. Since those are the cities of that nation's 3 eponymous stakes, no other Russian cities qualify as a "major, yet-to-be-determined city" in Russia.
ReplyDeleteThis individual also stated that of the three, the Church might be looking most seriously at the prospect of building it in Moscow. Of course, he let me know about that a couple of years or so ago, so the discussion could have been shifted to a different location within that time. But here's the way I see this: Aside from the Russia temple, each of the other 5 European cities in which temples were announced were in the capital cities of their respective nations.
That being said, between the two lists of temples from Matt, I think he's been pretty thorough. On my end, I received feedback on my list from Steven Cuff, who has commented here as well, about prospects I might want to consider. I have updated my list accordingly, and the updates are now available for public viewing at the following web address:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12D18tyoUvRE3Qh9EHTuSUVwL_tWAFh5gZ41W5Xqs6wo/edit?usp=sharing
My thanks once again to you all.
A new ward (the Woodmoor Ward) was just organized in Monument, Colorado - an area just north of Colorado Springs. This means that four out of the five meetinghouses for the Church in northern Colorado Springs now have four wards per meetinghouse (the fifth has three wards and really cannot accommodate more than two - the Black Forest building). The Church has land in Flying Horse Ranch (11 acres at 2396 VENETO WAY), and with the continued growth in the area, it seems like it might be time for the Church to build another meetinghouse for the area. Furthermore, this site is rather large, and it is also designated as a "special" site from what local members have told me. Perhaps this may indicate a temple announcement for Colorado Springs may happen this coming conference for both the meetinghouse and a temple to be built simultaneously...
ReplyDeleteWow! Fabulous insight!!! What wonderful news to hear of the new Ward and the continued growth in Colorado! Thanks for sharing.
DeleteOut of curiosity, where do you and others find out about property acquired recently by the Church? Or, in general, property owned by the Church? Is it public record or is this something one hears through the grapevine?
So at least for my home county of Maricopa, the land records are all public and you can see where the suburban land reserve or something like that owns land in the county
DeleteI've seen Victoria, B.C. in Honorable Mentions for Temple Predictions in "This Week in Mormons" and on James, Matt's, (et al) "less likely" listings.
ReplyDeleteIs the Vancouver Temple continuously active/filled-to-capacity that a Victoria Temple makes sense? Or is Victoria offered as a site based on the fact that it's on an island and Vancouver is too far/expensive?
Would the Vancouver Island members be able to staff a Victoria Temple?
Another dark horse candidate for a temple announcement that I should add to my map for less likely locations would be Vancouver, Washington. The Portland Oregon Temple is on the south side of Portland, and a temple in Vancouver could service seven stakes.
ReplyDeleteAs much as us locals would like a temple immediately here... I would put the temple in any of the surrounding growth cities (Ridgefield, Battle Ground, Camas), or combined with a major revitalizing investment project in Washougal.
DeleteThe other problem with this is that the Portland Oregon temple draws heavily from the stakes on this side of the river, including at least two of the current temple presidency.
The other negative factor is that because the area has seen so much growth, the rent and home prices have doubled or more in the past 3-4 years. When property taxes and rents go up again next year, another wave of move outs will happen. I myself am leaving for lower home prices in more rural areas.
I have to admit that I think President Nelson has a vision of challenging all to use the temple more. So I am not convinced he is adverse to leaving temples thin.
DeleteThat said, there are lots of places with huge distances to the temple and huge costs for members to travel there especially relative to their incomes.
One last thought, many temples are named for a city whose borders they are not in. Portland Oregon Temple is not in Portland. So what a temple on the north side of the Columbia River would be named and what community it would be placed in are independent issues.
I predict there will be another temple in Weber County, Utah. Maybe in Ogden Valley or out in West Haven area. They recently announced the Smithfield temple, giving Cache County two temples, plus the one in Brigham City. Davis County has the Layton and Syracuse under construction along with the Bountiful already there. Just looking at the map of Utah and how many temples they’ve added to Salt lake county and Utah county, I think Weber or Morgan County are the most likely for the next Utah temple.
ReplyDeleteButterfly and Bones, I saw you ask on the other thread how it was known where the North Rexburg temple would/will be. I think I’ve sat on my insider info long enough, since at this point the land has changed hands and it’s not like conference is that much further away.
ReplyDeleteSo I used to work for the City of Rexburg. In March, three of the higher-up members of the temple department had a meeting with the economic developer, the public works director, and the chief financial officer. Maybe also the mayor, I don’t recall if he was there for sure. At the meeting, the temple department confirmed the intent of the Church to build a second temple in Rexburg, and asked a lot of questions about a particular farm just east of the Walmart near the North Rexburg exit off of US-20. Obviously I don’t know all the particulars, but the Church was looking for a parcel big enough to do something similar to what they had planned in Tooele: commercial, residential, a park, and a temple.
Then in late March, we received a utility locate request from Forsgren Engineering for that 103 acre farm, then owned by the Hegsted family. The request made clear that Forsgren would be drilling test holes across the entire property, which the Church typically has done as part of the preparation of the geotechnical report for the parcel to ensure it is ground suitable for the erection of a temple. (Continued)
In mid-April, after my disappointment at not seeing it announced, I had heard confirmation the land deal was done, and that the Church had a 90 day withdrawal clause if for whatever reason they needed to pull the plug on Project Salem, as it’s called. In this 90 day period, there were no issues, and so in August, GIS finally recorded the instruments from the county reflecting the sale of the parcel as a whole to a shell company, Teton Land Management (you’ll see they still own about 60% on the west of the parcel currently), and then in September, a formal transfer of the west 40% to the Church.
DeleteNow, some might say the Church could be buying land for other reasons, but why? BYU-I is to the south and still owns another 300+ undeveloped acreage. There isn’t a whole lot of growth as far north as the Church purchased, and the lot is significantly larger than would be needed for a chapel or a bishop’s storehouse. The only explanation is what was proposed above.
Now I’ll add to this two additional things that I know of that confirm this internally. I had a pretty good relationship with the economic developer. One day in early summer, I walked into his office to ask him about a different project I was helping with. I noticed he was busy working on a presentation for businesses which was for a special project, Project Salem. He was kind of secretive when I started asking questions about it, which was a little unusual. I did notice the area he was using to define the area of influence lined up perfectly with the existing Rexburg temple district, which doesn’t include Rigby or anything further south, but did include West Yellowstone and Jackson, WY. I thought it was a very curious way to draw up a sphere of influence for Rexburg, but the temple district and drawing business to the commercial part of the Church’s project seems to align in my eyes.
Finally, one of the three made an offhand comment in a meeting we were in to someone that if they wanted land in Rexburg, they should buy before October. Can’t imagine what that aligns with.
Now the disclaimer: some of this is firsthand, some of it is secondhand from a few different people in the City. But I have worked to verify the accuracy of it, and feel satisfied with my firsthand knowledge to sustain the secondhand knowledge. None of the three will admit who they met with, and no one who I suspect would be under an NDA have revealed anything to me that would undermine said NDA. But this is the knowledge I have of the process behind the North Rexburg temple which I fully expect to be announced on Sunday.
You said someone was told "if they wanted land in Rexburg, they should buy before October."
DeleteMy first thought is that land values will go up if a new temple is announced. It could be something else, but that sounds like a strong hint.
That was a reply to EP, just to be clear.
DeleteThat is exactly what I think will happen. This will be the catalyst that spawns an explosion of growth in North Rexburg.
DeleteRegarding translating for general conference. I can only speak from my personal experience as a former translator (from ~2010-2014). The talks are sent out ahead of time (general pattern seemed that lower ranking officials got their talks in sooner). Translators then do the task of translation. It is particularly difficult when speakers base their talk on a particular phrase or play on words that does not translate well. The translators are supposed to get the talks back ASAP. The translated talk is then sent to the person who will be reading the talk (can be the same person who translated or a different person).
ReplyDeleteAny revisions that come in are done in a similar way (and most talks have at least 1 revision). The translation teams then are present at the Conference Center (there are a few that are done remotely as well) and do simultaneous interpretation with the speaker. Hopefully, they stick to the talks. If they don't, it's usually because they are short on time and skipped part of their planned remarks. If it is truly a change, then that is very difficult. Many languages are broadcast live while others are recorded live and then sent to the relevant Church units. If there are glaring mistakes in the live recording (speaker of script, interpreter has a coughing fit, mispronunciation leads to an inappropriate word being spoken, technical difficulties), then you have the opportunity to re-record immediately after the session ends.
I will say that in my mission, we would usually have a room with the English version being played and another room with the local language. I liked that set up. I think there is something special to hear the actual voice of the prophet and not just the interpreter doing a voice over.
Are the translations rereviewed before they are printed in the Liahona?
DeleteYes they are.
DeleteA 2nd Rexburg temple may be needed. But most of it's stakes are very close to be the current temple. There are currently 26 stakes in the district. But 15 of those stakes are Either YSA stakes (11) or married student stakes (5), which due to affiliation to a church University probably has a high activity rate. I also wonder how many of those stakes are ready to split. The university is growing every year. Also a second Rexburg temple could cause at least one or more Rigby stakes realign to the Rexburg temple. Unless Rigby is on the docket for one in a few years depending upon growth. The proposal EP showed with a multifaceted project that included housing, parks, and commercial entities. that kind of project will also allow for more growth towards the North end. Thus the name: "Project Salem" could give insight to the name of the temple due to its proximity to the Sugar-Salem communities.
ReplyDeleteCorrection: 4 married student stakes are in the current Rexburg Idaho temple district m
ReplyDeleteThe Rexburg Walmart in the proposed area of the possible temple is only about 3.3 miles from the Current Rexburg temple. That would make them among the closest in the church, maybe after the two in Provo.
ReplyDeleteThe "Ala Barra da Tijuca (Barra da Tijuca Ward) - 2186713", that is around the Rio de Janeiro Brazil Temple, was recently organized.
ReplyDeletehttps://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=-23.002609,-43.376096&z=14&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&q=Barra%20de%20Tijuca&find=ward:2186713
144 Sep 30, 2021 Barra da Tijuca Ward
I wonder if they are planning the Open House and Dedication of the Temple soon?
They want Covid levels down. Rio de Jainero is a huge city in Brazil, and I can see them wanting to make this a national event. I would not be surprised if it does not happen until about the time of the DC Temple rededication.
DeleteOn the other hand, with the amount of build-up and planning needed and the disease trajectory in Brazil it might not be till even later.
Rio de Janeiro is today the epicenter of dissemination of COVID delta variant in Brazil. As long as vaccination is not guaranteed to the entire population, transmission rates are unlikely to drop there. I see the temple only being dedicated at the end of 2022, and that's bad as it delays the timetable for new announcements in the rest of the country. Sorry for my bad english
DeleteAlso recently, the eastern Slovenia "Celje Branch", of the "Ljubljana Slovenia District - 614599", was consolidated with the neighboring "Maribor Branch". This leaving the district with only 2 remaining branches, the "Ljubljana Branch" and the "Maribor Branch" in the Republic.
ReplyDeletehttps://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=46.153915,14.986279&z=8&m=google.road&layers=stakecenter&find=stake:614599
"Branches Closed
...
71 Sep 30, 2021 Celje Branch Celje, Slovenia"
I wonder how soon the district will also be consolidated? Can the district be directed with only 2 branches?
So I have put Mbuji-Mayi on several lists since Elder Andersen made comments suggesting that city would one day get a temple. I just realized that both the general authroty seventies from the Democratic Republic of the Congo have connections there.
ReplyDeleteElder Kyungu is the more obvious since he was the first president of the DR Congo Mbuji-Maye mission, and was there during the brutal war in the Kasai region, references by Elder Mutombo in his talk last conference.
I just learned though that Mutombo itself is a name with Luba-Kasai orgin. Elder Mutombo grew up in Kinshsa, but he mentioned that his parents came from villages. At least his father seems likely to have come from somewhere in the Luba-Kasai region of south-central DR Congo.
Elder Kyungu was born in a small mining place called Kamina, and has multiple degrees from the University of Lumbumbashi, which is also where he joined the Church. Kamina is in the general Katanga region as is Lumbumbashi.
Mbuji-Mayi has 1.5 million people and Kananga has about 1 million. These are estimates from 2010, so the populations may be larger now. It is about a 110 mile drive from one city to the other.
Kananga seems to have 3 stakes in its immediate vicinity, while Mbuji-Mayi only has 2 in the province. However Mwene-Ditu is much closer to Mbuji-Mayi. If you just glance at a map they seem to form a trinagle, but evidently the only way the road actually goes involves going through Mbuji-Mayi. It is 80 plus miles driving to Mbuji-Mayi and 180 plus to Kananga. So while both locations would seem to serve 6 stakes, Muji-Mayi would be a placement easier for all 6 stakes.
There is also an additional district in Lomani provice where Mwene-Ditu is. If it is anywhere near stake status, that would weigh even more in faovr of Mbuji-Mayi as the temple location.
Kanaga is 871 miles from Kinshsa, and Mbuji-Mayi is 980 miles away. From Mbuji-Mayi to Lubumbashi (which I just realized I have been spelling with an extra M) the distance is 652 miles, you actually drive through Elder Kyungu's home town of Kamin on the journey. Kamina is 366 miles from Lubumbashi. I think I have been overstating how close to Lubumbashi Elder Kyungu was born. I do not think I definitiely know how old he was when he moved to Lubumbashi. However the sources seem to suggest he lived with his uncle while a student in Lubumbashi. Whether this was becasue his parents were deceased, or because his uncle lived in Lubumbashi and his parents still lived in Kamina or elsewhere than the city with a university, or because of other factors, I do not know.
I have to admit I doubt that Rio de Jainer not being dedicated is delaying announcing more temples in Brazil. I think in this situation it will not cause delays.
ReplyDeleteI agree, John. 2 more temples have been announced in Brazil since Covid started. I wouldn't be surprised to see another one this weekend.
DeleteI think about the issue of allocation of construction teams. Brazil usually maintains two or three teams to monitor the works. If more temples are built at the same time, more teams will have to be hired to oversee the construction sites
DeleteThere is the matter of the previously mentioned temple department hiring spree, could they also have set things up to have additional teams of contractors ready for when temples were announced for a given area?
ReplyDeleteRecently upgraded from a district to a stake, the "Kumasi Ghana Konongo District - 2017377", originally organized January 5th, 2014, has been renamed "Kumasi Ghana Konogo Stake - 2017377".
ReplyDeletehttps://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=6.70062,-1.067617&z=10&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&q=2017377&find=stake:2017377
"Stakes Reorganized from Districts
...
12 Oct 02, 2021 Kumasi Ghana Konongo Stake"
correction, "Kumasi Ghana Konongo Stake - 2017377".
ReplyDeleteI see a lot of talk about a Victoria, BC temple when it is probably more likely for one to be announced in the interior (Kelowna or Vernon). The Vernon Stake is one unit away from splitting and if you add Prince George and Cranbrook, that is 4 stakes. It takes over 4 hours to get from Vernon to the Vancouver temple and that is if there is no bad weather over the Coquihalla Pass (highway featured in Discovery Channel's "Highway Thru Hell"). Vernon Stake was formed in 1975 (same as Victoria Stake) and when the church built a new chapel in West Kelowna a few years ago, they bought a big plot of land (about 10 acres). Plenty of space for an Elko-style 10k sq ft temple. In my estimation, a Kelowna Temple is a sooner reality than a Victoria one (unless there is something I am not aware of)
ReplyDelete@ Cory: Given the shift from wanting a temple within 200 miles of members’ homes to within 2 hours and given that mapping distances world-wide by travel time isn’t readily available, do you think it may become helpful to reduce the radius overlay on temple maps? I was thinking no further than what’s possible with good roads and low traffic, like maybe 120 miles or so.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure when the "Mbabane Swaziland District - 557226" (organized on 02/17/2008), was renamed using the country's new name "Mbabane Eswatini District - 557226", this year or last? I found it while reviewing my list of Stakes + Districts for name changes.
ReplyDeletehttps://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=-26.70191,31.194292&z=9&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&q=557226&find=stake:557226
32 temples being announced today. That is my guess. We are moving into a time where the Lord is going to endow His saints with power. The prophecy given in the scripture where power is poured out upon the Saints has arrived and the temple is where this power is obtained.
ReplyDeleteThe article published a few months ago about the Church testing prefabricated temples will change everything because they will be able to install a temple in 13 months. Lets see how fast Helena Montana is erected. The foundation poured there is not a traditional slab foundation like the small temples usually have. Instead it has columns with plates and bolts cemented into it.
I have also noticed that the church is tearing down many church buildings to build a temple on the same lot. This avoid the lengthy delays government can place in its way. All of these choices is allowing temple building to really accelerate.
While I enjoy the guessing game of where the next temple will be built like everyone else, I think it will be a frivolous event in the coming conferences when several dozen temples are announced every six months and they can be possibly dedicated within 18 months. I see all this coming together for an acceleration of temple building that will blow us away.
I think building temples on land or the site of a former or existing meetinghouse will reduce the need of extensive zoning approvals around the world. Since we already have (or had) a "church" on site we should not need major new approvals to build a temple in those locations. I wonder if that is why we have chosen to tear down some meetinghouse for a temple. In other case they are built next door. That saves on parking, or a new land purchase. And also the whole site might have already been zoned for such a building, giving more savings. The savings are also not just money but time. The quicker we can start construction, the quicker ordinance work can begin.
DeleteI'm not sure when the "San Blas Panamá District - 609226" (organized 06/01/1979), was renamed the "Guna Yala Panamá District - 609226". I also have discovered while reviewing for name changes.
ReplyDeletehttps://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=9.087447,-78.317065&z=9&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&find=stake:609226
Guna Yala is the indigenous name of the islands. Good to see attempts being made to recognize local names and cultures. Good people. Looking forward to day a stake is organized as the people realize their potential and promises.
DeleteI wonder what the trends are for the last ten to twenty years on in what session in conference have temple announcements been made in.
ReplyDeleteBefore last Conference, someone pointed me to a mapping software that could map travel time distances. With the church now saying 2 hours is the desired travel distance, I mapped some areas where current temples are. The mile radius varies depending on freeway access.
ReplyDeleteHere is a link to the folder with the screen shots I created. This was before the temples were announced in April, so many of these holes are now filled (Elko, Grand Junction, Helena, Farmington, and Eugene):
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kABoUg7-x3FeHz_JZNJrIqhFNKKmwpiC?usp=sharing
This is amazing. Thanks!!
DeleteAs for when temples have been announced, the Church News did a good investigation in 2019 about this. President Hinkley was all over the place in the session he did it in. Many were just announced in press releases. President Monson Did most of his in Conference, mostly at the start of the Saturday Morning session, but a few times during the Sunday Morning Session during his main talk as he got older. President Nelson has always done his at the conclusion of the conference on Sunday Afternoon, with the exception of that one time during the Women's session in October 2019.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2019-03-31/new-temples-havent-always-been-during-general-conference-heres-a-breakdown-of-how-thats-changed-155986
I wrote about the trend of replacing meetinghouse with temples back in July. My numbers need updating with all the site announcements in the last few months:
http://www.thisweekinmormons.com/2021/07/when-it-comes-to-temple-construction-meetinghouses-are-increasingly-expendable/
Christopher Duerig - The San Blas Panama District was renamed on or near 07/11/2021
ReplyDeleteSome of the temples President Hinckley announced in April 1998 without a site specified were dedicated before October 1999 general conference
ReplyDeleteThe reasons this happened was a combination of factors. Detroit was on a huge road, adjacent to a larger stake center among other factors. It was dedicated late October 1999 so after conference, but was not announced in any way until August 1998. At this rate we would see temples announced in April 2020 dedicated before the end of this year.
On the other extreme one temple dedicated in 1999 was announced in 1982. Although one temple having ground broken this month was announced in 1977, but American Samoa special case. case.
ReplyDeleteAlso found the "Duitama Colombia Stake - 1082868" (organized 06/28/2009) has been renamed "Boyacá Colombia Stake - 1082868". I'm not sure when.
ReplyDeletehttps://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=5.969766,-73.073087&z=8&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&find=stake:1082868
Vitória Brazil was an underdog
ReplyDeleteVitória, Brazil...hahaha I bet no one saw that one coming! Awesome news for the Saints in Espírito Santo.
ReplyDeleteParabéns amigo!
Delete13 new temple locations, just announced at the end of the conference:
ReplyDeleteKaohsiung, Taiwan
Tacloban City, Philippines
Monrovia, Liberia
Kananga, Democratic Republic of the Congo
Antananarivo, Madagascar
Culiacán, México
Vitória, Brazil
La Paz, Bolivia
Santiago West, Chile
Fort Worth, Texas
Cody, Wyoming
Rexburg North, Idaho
Heber Valley, Utah
I expected most of these new locations, although Cody was a surprise, and I've thought about a 2nd one in Taiwan. Haven't really seen anyone else predicting it, though. I'm very happy for all the Saints who will be blessed by better access (geographic or in terms of capacity) for these new temples.
ReplyDeleteI'm so excited for Fort Worth!!!!
ReplyDelete