Brazil
Three new stakes were recently created in Brazil.
The Ponta Grossa Brazil North Stake was created on July 2nd from a division of the Ponta Grossa Brazil Stake (created in 1980) and the Ponta Grossa Brazil Campos Gerais Stake (created in 1997). Two branches formerly assigned to the Brazil Curitiba Mission were also assigned to the new stake. The new stake includes the following five wards and two branches: the América, Campus, Castro, Esplanada, and Ponta Grossa 2nd Wards and the Telêmaco Borba and Tibagi Branches. The new stake is the Church's third stake in Ponta Grossa which has a population of approximately 351,000 people.
The Curitiba Brazil Campo Comprido Stake was organized on July 16th from a division of the Curitiba Brazil Iguaçu Stake (created in 1984) and the Curitiba Brazil Novo Mundo Stake (created in 1994). The new stake includes the following five wards: the Campo Comprido, Campo Largo, Ferraria, Jardim Gabineto, and the Solene Wards. The new stake is the Church's 14th stake in the Curitiba metropolitan area. The Church most recently crated a new stake in the Curitiba area in 2018.
The Jaraguá do Sul Brazil Stake was organized on July 16th from a division of the Joinville Brazil South Stake (created in 2014) and the Navegantes Brazil Stake (created in 2020). Currently, only the following three wards and one branch are assigned to the new stake per the Church's meetinghouse locator website, namely the Baependi, Jaraguá do Sul 1st, and Jaraguá do Sul 2nd Wards and the Barra Velha Branch, suggesting that the creation of additional congregations in the new stake is probably imminent or other units from nearby stakes will be reassigned to the new stake. This has been a similar trend in the Church recently to create a new stake and later have branches advance into wards or create new wards to have the stake had more units (such as recently in Nairobi, Kenya and in Lomé, Togo).
There are now 284 stakes and 40 districts in Brazil.
Utah
Two new stakes were created in Utah on June 11th. The Saratoga Springs Utah Quailhill was organized from the Saratoga Springs Utah Mount Saratoga Stake (organized in 2016) and includes the following six wards: the Lexington Green, Quailhill 1st, Quailhill 2nd, Quailhill 3rd, Quailhill 4th, and the Talus Ridge 1st Wards. The Saratoga Springs Utah Riverside Stake was created from the Saratoga Springs Utah Mount Saratoga Stake, the Saratoga Springs Utah Saratoga Hills Stake (organized in 2017), and the Saratoga Springs Utah Springside Stake (organized in 2020) and includes the following seven wards: the Neptune Park, Riverside 1st, Riverside 2nd, Saratoga Springs 10th, Sunset Haven, Thunder Ridge, and the Wander Wards. This marks a rare instance when one stake was divided as part of creating two additional stakes (although there are a couple instances in Church history in modern times when one stake was divided to create two new stakes without any other stakes being involved in the process).
One stake was discontinued in Utah. The Salt Lake Jordan Stake (organized in 1977) was discontinued. Of the five wards in the former stake, only the Jordan 8th Ward (Spanish) was discontinued. The remaining wards were renamed and reassigned to the Salt Lake Jordan North Stake, the Taylorsville Utah North Central Stake, and the Taylorsville Utah South Stake.
With these changes, there are now 629 stakes and 2 districts in Utah.
Nigeria
The Church organized a new stake in Nigeria. The Nsit Ubium Nigeria Stake was created from a division of the Ukat Aran Nigeria Stake (organized in 1999 and previously called the Nsit Ubium Nigeria Stake until renamed the Ukat Aran Nigeria Stake years later) and the Uyo Nigeria South Stake (organized in 2016). The new stake includes the following eight wards: the Ekpene Ukim, Ikot Ekwere, Ikot Esen, Ikot Eyo 1st, Ikot Eyo 2nd, Ikot Eyo 3rd, Ikot Ubo, and the Ndikpo Atang Wards. The new stake operates within one of the first areas in Nigeria where an official Church presence was established, with many villages and small towns having branches organized in 1979. Rapid growth has occurred for the Church in this area of Nigeria in recent years, particularly to the north in Uyo during the past 2-4 years, with the division of both remaining Uyo stakes appearing imminent (the Uyo Nigeria Stake currently has 12 wards, whereas the Uyo Nigeria Ibiono Stake currently has 11 wards and 2 branches).
There are now 69 stakes and 15 districts in Nigeria. Currently, there are approximately 14 stakes that appear likely to divide in the immediate future due to large numbers of wards. Thus, the number of stakes in Nigeria appears likely to surpass 80 within the next 1-2 years.
Ghana
A new district was created in Ghana on the border with Togo. The Dzodze Ghana District was created from four mission branches in the Ghana Accra West Mission. The new district includes the Aflao, Akatsi, Dzodze, and Penyi Branches - all of which have been organized since 2015. This area of Ghana on the border with Togo and in the southern Volta Region has long been a lesser-reached area of the country by the Church notwithstanding relatively close proximity to Accra.
Tanzania
A new district was created in Tanzania, marking the third new district created in Tanzania during the past 12 months. The Mwanza Tanzania District was created from three mission branches located in the Mwanza area, including the Buhongwa, Mwanza, and the Nyegezi Branches. There are now four districts in Tanzania.
Turkey
The Church recently unassigned Turkey from what was previously known as the Central Eurasian/Bulgaria Mission to the Europe Central Area. Branches in Turkey are now organized into a district called the Europe Central Area District. The district includes the following seven non-sensitive branches: the Adana Military (English), Ankara, Antalya, Isparta (Persian), Istanbul 1st, Istanbul 2nd (English), and Izmir Branches. The Church previously operated a branch in Gaziantep which closed in early 2023 and appears now to function as a group. Reports from local members indicate that no full-time missionaries have been permitted to serve in the country for multiple consecutive years, and that Turkish-speaking missionaries in Germany now teach and prepare prospective converts via online teaching. This appears to mark the first time a district has ever been organized in Turkey. There were 658 members in Turkey as of year-end 2022. Some of Turkey outside of the new district is assigned to the Europe Central Area Branch.
England
Two stakes were discontinued in the London area in June, namely the London England Wandsworth Stake (organized in 1978) and the Maidstone England Stake (organized in 1978). One ward in the Maidstone England Stake (Selsdon) was reassigned to the Crawley England Stake, whereas the remainder of the wards in the former Maidstone England Stake were reassigned to the Canterbury England Stake (which now has 11 wards). However, three of the wards in the former London England Wandsworth Stake were discontinued.
There are now 41 stakes in the United Kingdom.
Sorry - I realized I missed the new México City El Lago Stake in this update. I will be sure to add it the next time I make a post.
ReplyDeleteHave you reported on the creation of the Brussels North and Breda Stakes out of the Antwerp and The Hague Stakes?
ReplyDeleteThese are not new stakes. They were renamed is all.
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ReplyDeleteOn the topic of potential stakes in Nigeria, here is my shortlist for stakes to split and districts to upgrade in the immediate or foreseeable future, based exclusively on current units:
ReplyDeleteDistricts:
Ogwashi Nigeria District (5 branches)
Agbor Nigeria District (6 branches)
Akure Nigeria District (7 branches)
Ondo Nigeria District (6 branches)
Oron Nigeria District (7 branches)
Jos Nigeria District (8 branches) - this district has seen a significant number of convert baptisms lately
Gboko Nigeria District (5 branches)
Otukpo Nigeria District (5 branches)
Makurdi Nigeria District (5 branches)
Nsukka Nigeria District (6 branches)
Ilorin Nigeria District (6 branches)
Bori Nigeria District (8 branches)
Okrika Nigeria District (7 branches)
Stakes:
Benin City Nigeria Ugbowo Stake (10 wards, 3 branches)
Calabar Nigeria North Stake (10 wards)
Uyo Nigeria Stake (12 wards)
Uyo Nigeria Ibiono Stake (11 wards, 2 branches)
Ikot Ekpene Nigeria Stake (11 wards, 1 branch)
Uyo Nigeria Stake (10 wards, 4 branches)
Lagos Nigeria Yaba Stake (11 wards)
Port Harcourt Nigeria West Stake (10 wards, 3 branches)
Umuahia Nigeria Stake (10 wards, 5 branches)
So excluding possible additional stakes created from two or more stakes (which is a real possibility in almost every metropolitan area in Nigeria with two or more stakes), I count 13 districts potentially advancing and 9 stakes possibly splitting. And this is just based on no additional wards being created at the same time. There are very few districts in Nigeria that are without a realistic prospect of becoming stakes in the next 10 years or so.
Very encouraging stuff for sure.
Living here in London, leaders are often quoting President Nelson's quote from last year that Europe has an "unparalleled future". (https://www.thechurchnews.com/2022/1/23/23218757/europe-devotional-russell-m-nelson-david-a-bednar-the-church-has-an-unparalleled-future-in-europe-la)
ReplyDeleteNow, obviously, this quote is used to inspire hope and excitement. And since this year the greater London area has closed three stakes and eight wards, we are getting messaging that this isn't a sign the Church is failing but rather a sign of us strengthening the stakes. Cynics (who seem rather convincing, I gotta admit) point out that "unparalleledd future" doesn't mean Church growth.
Now that temple announcements seem more aspirational than reflective and growth, new temples in Europe don't mean much for growth. I'm very curious: is the Church growing anywhere in Europe, or are they just closing units everywhere like they are in southern England?
I acknowledge that (1) this assessment is based on us living in a bubble close to a temple and European headquarters and (2) most growth is currently from move-ins, but I would definitely say that the Church is growing quite substantially in the Frankfurt area. Our stake in Friedrichsdorf may be heading for a split in the next 5 years. There are not a lot of units in our stake that are unlikely to split in the same time frame:
Delete- Plans for a Spanish/Portuguese unit in the northern suburbs of Frankfurt are progressing.
- A third ward is likely to be created in the Wetterau, probably in the Friedberg/Bad Nauheim area.
- Our ward in Friedrichsdorf averages around 250 for sacrament and area HQ are moving here, so we have new families moving in almost weekly.
- A ward in Gießen is likely coming, as Wetzlar is massive geographically and has close to 300 attending on good Sundays.
- There is a group that meets in Fulda that is getting quite close to becoming a branch. This would be a split from Hanau.
- Koblenz is getting quite close becoming a ward. Attendance is usually between 60 and 80 it seems, which is more than historically.
- I don't know about Kassel and Wiesbaden but those two also seem quite healthy. Usingen is large (150-200 probably) but I wouldn't think they split in the near future as population growth in the area is less prolific.
The Frankfurt stake has few units that are all more or less massive. I have confirmed that Frankfurt International attendance has rebounded and is now closer to 400-500 like before the pandemic. I expect that number to go down somewhat with HQ moving to Friedrichsdorf. The other wards minus Langen and Mainz, which are more moderate in size, should be getting close to splitting (Darmstadt in particular).
There are good signs of growth happening elsewhere in Germany as well, especially in areas that are densely populated and relatively diverse. No stakes, perhaps with the exception of Nuremberg, appear to be struggling to keep the light on. Quite a few (Hamburg, Düsseldorf/Dortmund, Leipzig/Dresden, and possibly Berlin) have a clear road towards splitting in the next decade or so. Finally Freiburg could eventually get a stake but I am less confident that Zürich could do without those units in Germany.
I may be being paranoid, but something has occurred that has me mildly concerned. I had the pleasure of creating the Ribeirão Preto Temple location pin on Google Maps. It turns out that it is no longer there, it was overthrown by another user or by Google itself.
ReplyDeleteSo I went to the city hall's website to look in the feasibility studies of new construction projects to see if the Church had already filed the documentation, and I didn't find anything. Maybe it's too early for that.
However, I found a petition from the association of residents of Jardim Canada (neighborhood where the Temple lot is located) requesting the installation of access control equipment. I then wondered if there was any opposition in the neighborhood that would prevent the temple from being located in the designated location.
If this situation is indeed confirmed, I believe it would be the first case of its kind in Brazil.
A few years ago The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discontinued several stakes in Mexico City.
ReplyDeleteSince than 5 new temples have been announced for the greater Mexico City area. Having fewer wards and stakes is not an overall sign of Church decline.
The point of the Church is not to create more wards and branches. It is to invite all to come unto Christ.
Sometimes accomplishing that takes reformulated and rethinking old boundaries and old ways, and aligning people in New ways that position them for more progress.
Cynis inherently reject the saving power of Jesus Christ and an inherently wrong.
@Pascal
ReplyDeleteZurich could do without the German units. Specilly if it would get 1-2 wards from the St. Gallen stake.
Active membership in the Swiss units is 500-600 and in the German units its is 300-400. Active membership have mostly been stagant in the last 10 years. In the german speaking area it is often difficult for stakes or wards to split because of the total members required for a stkae / ward. Since there are few convert baptisms, active members tend to move to the same places. The same is true for less active members but they move to different places mostly cities. So you get wards that are larger >200 active members but cannot split because fewer <300 (150 mebmers minimum requerement for a ward outside US) and in other places wards with 60 active Members but 500 on the records. Your stake the Friedrichsdorf stake is one of the largest accoreing active membership, but likly one of the smalest in total membership in germany.
Most german speaking stakes are close to the minimum requirment of 1900 member (stake requirment outside US).
As an example When the Neumünster stake was disconintued and the Hamburg and Hanover stakes where realinged. The Friedrichsdorf stake got a Ward from the Hanover stake even tough it was allredy a strong stake. My guess the reason was that Friedrichsdorf a new stkae was still below the the minimum requirment of 1900 members.
Spaint is propably the country in europe with the strongest growth. Both in convert baptisms and move in's from south america.
The church is delicning in some parts of europe. But most unit closures are from units that have been small for many years and the Europe area now wanting larger units or stake presidnets struggling with callings in the unit.
@Pascal
ReplyDeleteI just noticed that the Schwenningen Branch became a ward about a week ago. Also the Freiberg 2 Branch became a ward in Mai. If I counted corretly germany has now a 100 wards for the first time.
I've written this elsewhere but I think it bears repeating. In my Canadian stake, it split about 18 ish months ago and I am in the new ward here. There is talk of creating another branch in the city. I have no idea about the other Stake and what goes on. We are bursting at the seams. I don’t buy into the naysayers, no matter how slick their youtube or podcasts are, we have no idea how long the Church will be here so what does it matter if a stake closes or 3 stakes close down if in 200 years the membership triples the amount they have now? Plus people seem to forget the amount of temple work being done. The Church doesn’t just exist here, it’s over on the other side of the veil too. In a August 1988 Church News article the church said there were 100 million endowments done to that point. If you take England for example, if 1 percent of the 100 million were British that is still 1 million people. If half accepted the Gospel, that is still 500,000 members, which is more that they have now for sure. To say nothing about the British members that have died over the years, all over the world. That is a lot of people. That also says nothing about the temple work for the British since 1988, which is a few more people I’d say. That is just the British. Could the Church do things better or different? certainly, but I just don’t buy into this the Church is collapsing idea when you factor in these other things.
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Delete@Whizzbang
DeleteI'm glad you pointed out how the Church is continually growing on the other side due to temple work. That's one of the main reasons I do temple work.
Or, as the sister in my ward says "we're building an army (on the other side) for our children!"
Thank you, Pascal and miro, for directly addressing my question. I think we often bog conversations about growth/decline down with rhetoric intended to save faith. In this case, I'm speaking specifically to that measurable growth/decline. As Matt has said before, unit creation/discontinuation is the closest thing we have to a metric of true growth (though not infallible, of course).
ReplyDeleteIt's good to hear that Germany appears to be having some healthy growth. As you point out, a lot of that growth in the Frankfurt area appears to be driven by migration (e.g., with the moving HQ). However, you point out growth is happening elsewhere as well, which is encouraging. I'll chat with some friends in France to see what they're seeing there as well.
Thanks again, Pascal and miro. Your answers helped me feel respected in my inquiry.
With currently 9 branches, I wonder how soon the Yaounde Cameroon District will progress to become the first organized Stake in the country.
ReplyDeletehttps://maps.churchofjesuschrist.org/stakes/1862391
The Church Newsroom Statistics site last reported a total of 2,721 membership in the 2 Districts (Yaounde and Douala), in the 15 total branches in the country. I don't remember what the minimum of baptized members are required to organize a new stake.
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/facts-and-statistics/country/cameroon
Site location and preliminary information announced for the Bakersfield California Temple, and an exterior rendering released for the Cleveland Ohio Temple:
ReplyDeletehttps://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/news-for-temples-in-california-and-ohio
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2023/7/25/23797057/bakersfield-california-temple-site-location-cleveland-ohio-temple-rendering-lds-announced
https://stokessoundsoff.blogspot.com/2023/07/breaking-temple-news-site-location-and.html
My thanks once again to you all.
I think for Fameroon it would be 1,900 baptized members to create a stake. They may be there soon.
ReplyDeleteWill Etinan be closer than Aba as their temple? Are they officially assigned to Aba or Kinshasa? I am thinking Aba is clearly closer.
I am hoping by the end of 2024 Tanzania and Cameroon will have stakes. I would love to see Ethiopia and Senegal have stakes by then too, but both seem more like pipe dreams than reality at this point.
I would also love to see Boma, DR Congo have a stake by then, but that may be too soon.
Kigali, Rwanda having a stake by then would also be awesome, buy that also might be too soon.
I believe there is in progress a translation of the Book of Mormon into Kinyarwanda, the language of Rwanda, but I do not believe it is done yet. That would also be a usable translation for many people in Burundi, parts of DR Congo and Tanzania, and among the huge numbers of people resident in Uganda, Tanzania and DR Congo displayed from Rwanda.
I am very much hoping that soon Kikongo gets a Book of Mormon translation. The Kongo people were the first anywhere in Southern Africa to embrace Christianity. Today they mainly reside in Angola, but also there are Kongo people living in DR Congo, the Republic of Congo and I believe even in Gabon. Lingala, one of the main languages spoken in Kinshasa is closely related to KiKongo, and there are people in Kinshasa who speak KiKongo.
The whole issues of translation in that area are very complex. However one of the area seventies in DR Congo, maybe called this year, but maybe last, works for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in translation.
A key issue in DR Congo is about 60% of the population speaks French not at all, and to truly reach the masses you need to fully do outreach in Swahili, Lingala, KiKongo and KiLuba, I maybe should say KiSwahili. To make things more fun the Swahili of Lumbumbashi is not the same as the Swahili of the far north. I am not sure what percentage of the population is fluent in one of those 5 languages even. However once you move beyond those 5 languages you have to start dealing with the factors in cultures where there is almost no literary tradition.
There are huge potentials for growth of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Congo, but we need to think clearly about the issues there. Few westerners have. Luckily there are two general authorities from DR Congo. With the country getting a 5th mission things are looking up.
I think it was earlier this year that Kisangi DR Congo got a district. I am hoping Kisangi will have DR Congo's 6th mission soon.
ReplyDeleteDoes the Rwanda Kigali mission take in any of DR Congo, or just Rwansmda and Burundi?
I promise this will be my last post for now. How many stakes in Akwa Ibom state to now? That is where the new stake in Nigeria mentioned was organized. It is where the Etinan Temple will be. At one point that state had 12 stakes, but I believe it is more now.
ReplyDeleteNo country on the African continent has seen The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints penetrate into the villages the way it has in Nigeria. Ghana and Ivory Coast have some village presence, and maybe a few other countries in Africa, but no where does it reach the level of Nigeria. Even in Nigeria this is really only the case in a few states most if not all in what Nigerians call the south south. Even Edo state, which is just a bit further west, has very little presence of the Church in villages, and in the south-west of Nigeria where Lagos, the Church largely exists as an urban phenomenon.
With over 200 million people there is huge potential for growth of the Church in Nigeria, Eben if only 140 million or so of those live in parts of the country where there is aby chance of missionary outrwxh at present.
Did the Church open 1 or 2 new missions in Nigeria this year?
JPL, there is no Etinan temple, at least not yet. Did you mean the Eket Nigeria Temple?
DeleteThe Nigeria Abuja and Nigeria Aba Missions were both created this year, so that is two in Nigeria for 2023.
DeleteIt appears that the unit growth in the DRC this currently entirely outside the Kinshasa and Lubumbashi areas. I wonder if the Church will eventually have a large conference, perhaps with an apostle at a stadium in Kinshasa, to simply organize dozens of new wards and a few stakes in one go. Thinking about it, this is probably easier to organize than changing boundaries somewhere in the Kinshasa metro every few weeks, with all the strain it puts on local leadership that is often working with fewer resources than us westerners are used to. Plus, the PR impact could be massive, as even with the current levels of outreach, the current 100 or so units in the Kinshasa metro clearly do not reach everyone. Something similar could be done in Lubumbashi, but probably at a smaller scale.
ReplyDeleteSince some above were talking about European growth, Ireland is an interesting case study that got some attention by a Catholic reporter who describes his experience in this article: https://religionnews.com/2023/07/25/irish-mormons-face-dwindling-numbers-but-researcher-finds-their-community-inspirational/
ReplyDeleteIs the church growing in Ireland? Definitely not in terms of alive membership (I realize some want to count the dead):
For 2011, 2016, and 2022:
Church reported membership - 2915, 3816, 3980
Census membership - 1284, 1332, 1111
Activity rate - 44%, 35%, 28%
Wards and branches - 13, 13, 13
As found on a comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/15a2cy7/comment/jtj5lyx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
I guess I did mean the Eket Temple.
ReplyDeleteWhat the reported Church membership on a census form means is not as clear as one may think. It is not a clear indication of the active membership. It is altogether possible in the past people who did not regularly attend Church were more likely to identify their membership. The statistic does not tell us how many people show up to Church meetings
I have to admit that I wish we would see Temples built faster.
Tth8s reminds me of my observations on Haiti. The first temple president in Haiti,Fritzner Joseph, was the first person to serve a full-time mission from Haiti. He was taught and baptized before full time missionaries were even regularly assigned in Haiti. Fritzner and Gina Joseph, were the first Haitin couple sealed in the temple. On one hand this is awesome. On the other hand, why does it take so long that a man has to live yo be old enough to retire to see a temple in his land?
To be fair, Haiti sharing an island with the Dominican Republic is a factor. Brother Joseph was only about 40 when Santo Domingo got its temple, about 20 years before the temple in Haiti was dedicated.
There are lots of countries where the 40 or so years from the first baptisms to first temple of Haiti is exceeded. I think in Britain it is 119 years and there are many other examples.
Thailand will be over 50 years from the start of the Church to first temple, and Zimbabwe is about 90 years. DR Congo may only have 33 years from the first missionaries to the first temple.
At some point I want to get a working understanding of temple presidents. I have tried to do it, but there is a huge amount of data.
ReplyDeleteThis year I believe all incoming temple presidents are residents of the countries where they serve. The new president of Abijan Temple called earlier is an American. President Joseph was actually called from the US, but he had lived so much of his life in Haoti that he would count as a Haitian. The outgoing president in Cape Verde is a Brazilian, the new one resident in Haiti.
This may be the first year where all incoming temple presidents were residents of their assigned countries, at least since 1954, but I am not fully sure.
The three who do not live in their district are the Villars for McAllen, who are in San Antonio and President Villar was born right by McAllen, the new president for Okinawa who was born in Okinawa but lives on Honshu, and the new president of Guaquil who lives in Quito.
Temple presidents served quite long I think down until just after World War II. Then they began serving about 5 years. In the mid-1980s a shift was made to 3 years. President Hinckley said his new small temples would have 5 year presidents, but about 2005 most shifted to 3 year terms.
President Hinckley Saif the smaller temples would have local men serve as presidents. There have been exceptions. Here in Detroit we had one president called from Utah. Still he was not a total Newby to the area like many a mission president. He had been stake president in Mudland for a decade and lived here a long time.
The other thing is lots of former and at times current general authorities have been temple presidents.
None of this years group had been general authorities, but some had been area seventies.
I am pretty sure there is no former general authority currently serving as a temple president, but with about 180 I could be wrong. I do not believe any current general authority has been a temple president since the 1990s, and we might have to go back to the 1970s to find examples of general authorities being temple presidents and then going on to other assignments as general authorities.
On the other hand it seems more general authorities have served as mission presidents in the last decade or so than was the case earlier.
I wonder if part of President Hinckley hope in using local members for the presidency and matron was to not have to have a temple president's residence.
ReplyDeleteIf that was the goal it has not worked. Here in Detroit our temple president may be a Michigander, born, raised and resident, but he lived in Grand Rapids, so being temple president from his pre-call home would not work. At least not without at least a temporary residence that was more local.
Amarillo Texas Stake will be split on August 13th. One more new stake. Both will be small. Probably each will have four wards and four branches.
ReplyDeleteOther Matt here...
DeleteI wonder if the wards are splitting or a couple of branches are being upgraded to a ward to have 5 wards in each stake.
https://www.thechurchnews.com/global/2023/7/27/23810122/110-people-baptized-nigeria-africa
ReplyDeleteI can see Nigeria hitting 100 stakes in the next 10 years.
ReplyDeleteI have to admit it would not surprise me if by sometime in 2030 Nigeria has 100 stakes. It would actually not surprise me if it is before that date either.
ReplyDeleteHesbon Usi, the mission president of the Enugu Mission, who was one of the people involved with the success in Makrudi, is from Kenya. Makrudi may get a stake soon if things keep up there. I am really hoping Enugu can get a temple soon. I hope I live to see the day Makrudi has a temple, but I would be surprised if that is announced any time before 2035. Brother Usi is a trained architect, he was facilities manager for the Church starting in 2000. Brother Usi succeeded Joseph W. Sitati as stake president, and was later an area seventy. He has been mission president for just over a year.
President Ocansey in Abuja served his mission in the Enugu mission. He is 42, so he was probably on his mission in roughly 2000-2002 (I am 42, and those are the years I served, he could have been 1999-2001, or maybe he was a little older when he served). Was Abuja then in the Enugu mission, or was it at that time in Lagos mission?
On some other issues, I just calculated that there are 101 languages the endowment is available in, or at least when you request language assistance for the endowment there are 101 options given. Hawaiian is not an option, but I do know at one point there was a Hawaiian translation in existence. Arguably these are not quite 101 languages. Besides Mandarin and Cantonese, there are simplified and traditional Chinese options, which is about characters used, so maybe one would argue it is 99 languages. Only 78 languages have audio versions of the endowment, the other 23 are sub-titles only For example the endowment exists in most Micronesian languages, but only Chamorro and Pohnpeian have audio versions, Chuukese, Yapese, Marhsalles and maybe a few others only have sub-title versions.
In South Asia the only local language with audio version of the endowment in Urdu. Hindi, Telugu and Tamil has sbu-titles versions only. Bengali, Gujarati, Punjabi, Napelaese, Marathi, Kannada each have tens of millions of speakers, Bengali probably on the order of 300 million speakers total, yet there is no translation. I understand why, but we still have a lot of work to do to reach every nation, kindred, tongue and people.
Malay and Indonesian only have sub-titles versions of the endowment. Hopefully Indonesian can get an audio version before the Jakarta Temple in complete.
I also realized one can go through and see what language a session is in. Some temples they do not give a language for most sessions and just call them a "regular session". The most interesting was Boston where most are "regular" sessions, and then there are Spanish, Mandarin, Haitian-Creole and Portuguese. However once in a while there is a session that is tagged "English". I have no idea what that means as opposed to regular sessions which are English.
In Provo over the next month they have sessions scheduled in 10 non-English languages. Spanish and Tongan are expected, and Samoan is not surprising. Portuguese is expected too. The others are American Sign Language, Korean, Japanese, Chinese (it may have been more specific and I did not writer down the full specifications). The last two surprised me, Fijian and French.
One more unrelated note, but this is clearly Church growth. There is now a group functioning in a jail in Cape Verde. Here is the Church News article. https://www.thechurchnews.com/global/2023/7/27/23808986/praia-cape-verde-jail-sunday-meetings-ministering. I wonder how many such groups there are around the world.
I tried to share this in the comment threads of the previous post on this blog, but for whatever reason, it was not approved. Funeral services were held yesterday for Sister Patricia T. Holland, the wife of Elder Jeffrey R. Holland. The Newsroom and the Church News have provided coverage on the funeral; for anyone who missed it, an archive is available on the Church's broadcast page.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, while I haven't seen any new comments from Nancy lately (who mentioned the Los Angeles California Temple renovation recently in another thread), the Church Temples site news page for that temple has been updated to show the three-fold plans for that temple's renovation: the purposes of the renovation will be to enlarge ordinance rooms, remediate leakage problems with the roof and windows, and repurpose the cafeteria and dining areas.
While the Church has not indicated what the cafeteria and dining areas of the temple will be repurposed for, given the size of the temple (72,000 square feet), I would not be shocked if the Church opts to put a second baptistry in those spaces. That is just a guess on my part, based on what we've seen recently for other temples, and I don't have an official source to corroborate that. So for now, please regard that suggestion as merely my own best projection, based on what is and isn't known. Because the temple is a similar size to the Orem, Layton, Taylorsville, Syracuse, Lindon and reconstructed Provo Utah Temples, I assume that is a strong possibility. Based on the work that might be involved, I'm going to revise my estimate for its' likely completion to either late 2026 or sometime in 2027. My thanks once again to you all.
@James:
DeleteSad to hear about Sister Holland's passing.
I didn't know her, but their son, Matthew (now a General Authority), was my professor at BYU.
Awesome!
DeleteJames, you are referring to the San Diego Temple.
ReplyDeleteThanks. You are correct. That's what I get for not double-checking myself.
DeleteAnonymous, James may have been referring to the San Diego California Temple, since the Los Angles California Temple has 190,614 square feet of total floor area, not the 72,000 mentioned above. But oddly enough (even no official statement from the First Presidency yet), I was able to find this on Rick's Temples site posted.
ReplyDeletehttps://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/los-angeles-california-temple/
"Los Angeles California Temple
10th dedicated temple in operation; scheduled to close for renovation on .... "
It does not list the future scheduled renovation date yet.
Chris, I did mean San Diego. But I hadn't noticed that about the Los Angeles temple until you mentioned it. That's likely a typo on the Church Temples site. I doubt they'd have two Californian temples closed for renovations at the same time. I could be wrong. It's been a crazy couple of weeks for me health--wise so that isn't my first mistake in relaying information recently and probably won't be the last one either.
DeleteChris, it was a typo on the Church Temples site. The page for the Los Angeles California Temple now makes no mention of a renovation. I am still keeping my eyes open on the CDOL for any area boundary changes that may be indicated along with the area presidency changes on or around August 1.
Delete@James Stokes:
DeleteSorry to hear you've been having more health issues lately. :( Hope you get feeling better.
Boy, so do I. Frustratingly enough, lately, we seem to just get one health issue partially or completely resolved only for one or more other things to go haywire. So it's been difficult. Thanks for your well-wishes.
DeleteJPL,
ReplyDeleteThere has not been an Emeritus General Authority serving as a Temple President since Elder Samuelson was released as the President of the Salt Lake Temple in 2017. Prior to that the last time there were no temples being presided over by a General Authority was 1989. The most at once was in 2007, when there were 26.
Scott S,
ReplyDeleteThankyou for those numbers.
I had been thinking President Samuelson might be the last, but I was not sure. 26 at once in 2007 is a big number.
President Samuelson took the reign at BYU while I was there. More thoughts maybe soon, but thankyou for the comment.
Has Los Angeles temple ever been renovated? It might be soon, but I think they would wait until after San Diego renovations, also until Yorba Linda and Nakersfield are done, and having one more Southern California Temple would make the renovation easier.
The Los Angeles temple.was renovated about 20-25 years ago, all done by endowed members and so there was no rededication. The renovation, among other things, transformed the temple back from staying in one room to a progressive style. The veil room was also redone.
DeletePrior to that, you would go and stay in one room and then go to the veil room for that part.
Now that cafeterias are now continuing, there is a large area available in that temple for changes.
I was really hoping at time there was going to be an open house and rededication because I never had the opportunity to see the large assembly room.
*now that cafeterias are not being continued....
DeleteIf Los Angeles temple has ever been renovated, the work must have been done by endowed members, as it does not appear to have a rededication. It appears to be the oldest temple without a dedication. (Unless we count the temple in Kirkland, Ohio.) The next oldest would be Provo Utah which scheduled for renovation and then, Seattle Washington, Manilla Philippines, Taipei Taiwan, and others. I anticipate that the Lima Peru Temple may have a renovation announced the next few years, probably after the Lima Peru Los Olivos Temple is dedicated, as it is one of the largest temple districts with many stakes in its metro area, but it is also among the smallest of temples. (I think the most stakes per square footage of any temple in the church).
ReplyDeleteLima, along with Manila, is probably the hottest candidate for several small temples announced in the same metropolitan area.
DeleteI think thousand oaks will be the next Los Angeles area temple.
ReplyDeleteWithin the next few days we should know if there are any area realignments. It doesn't appear that they'll be any new or consolidated areas as they've already announced the leadership (all called to areas that exist today), but I'm unsure whether they'll be any changes with the alignment of these areas.
ReplyDeleteWhere have the area leadership positions been announced? I have not found them in yeaterday's Church News.
ReplyDeleteThose changes are announced in the week after General Conference in April:
Deletehttps://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/first-presidency-announces-2023-area-leadership-assignments
That's because all General Authorities serving in area presidencies come back to Salt Lake for training and other meetings in the week or two around that General Conference.
Craig,
ReplyDeletehttps://www.thechurchnews.com/2023/4/14/23682335/2023-2024-area-presidency-assignments-announced
Lima and Manila are strong candidates for more temples in the metro area. So are Santiago, Sao Paulo and Guatemala City. Kinshasa and Abijan may be potential candidates, but the numbers of stakes in the greater metro areas are still less in those cases. Bogota may be a candidate, but I think the next temple I. Colombia will be in Bogota Temple district but far from Bogota Metro. It is a city that starts with a B but I am drawing a blank on the name.
ReplyDeleteDo you mean Bucaramanga?
DeleteOther Matt here...
ReplyDeleteFor Europe to grow, they really to need to embrace foreign language groups, branches, and wards. Why France or English doesn't have Arabic speaking units baffles me. Or Turkish speaking units in Germany.
And more YSA and SA units...
@Johnathon Reese Whiting! No problem! I am reminded what Pres. Rudger Clawson said in the April 1933 said at General Conference
ReplyDelete"We have two great churches, one in heaven, the other upon the earth. They are moving along parallel lines, and the temple of God, it appears to me, is the connecting link that connects the heavens with the earth....I think we may reasonably expect that the great majority of these who have had the work done for them will accept it, and if that be the case, brethren and sisters, you will see at a glance that the Church... in heaven is much greater and stronger, and the membership there is much more numerous than it is in the Church of Jesus Christ, or the First-born, here upon the earth."
@Whizzbang
DeleteThat's a great quote by Pres. Clawson! And I'm glad you pointed out the "100 Million Endowments by 1988" figure in your previous comment. I'd heard Truman G. Madsen quote that number in one of his lectures, and I'd wondered the source.
ReplyDeleteSo far today, I have not found any major Temple announcements yet. I just see these 2 Open house and Temple closure articles posted on the Church News site.
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2023/7/31/23812558/moses-lake-washington-temple-media-day-see-inside
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2023/7/31/23811463/san-diego-california-temple-closed-extensive-renovations
I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how to cope with a temple closure. San Diego closed down on Saturday. I'm not worried about the minor inconvenience of having to drive 70 miles to Newport Beach. What has me concerned are all the elderly widows whose highlight of their week was serving as ordinance workers. I think they will experience a significant sense of loss, isolation, and possibly depression.
ReplyDeleteMany work on indexing, and other family history work.
DeletePlanned temple trips to either Newport or Redlands could let members explore new temples and have lasting conversations in the car.
Even a trip to LA would be closer than some of us drive to our closest or assigned temple.
@Kimberley in San Diego
DeleteAre there any of these elderly ladies and gents that you know personally? You could visit with them or talk to them on Sunday. Maybe seek out one that you know is struggling and invite him or her to work on some Genealogy with you at the Family History Center?
@Kimberley in San Diego
DeleteI've had the opportunity to do that with a few of the Elderly in my ward that I minister to (and some that I don't) and it's been a blessing to both them and to me.
One elderly man who I'm helping with his family line is preparing to receive his patriarchal blessing and the Melchizedek Priesthood soon. My brother and I had the chance to take his wife with us to do endowments in Cardston earlier this year (first time she'd gotten to go in years).
And there's another older lady I'm helping to figure out her German heritage (we had a fun time printing out a bunch of maps of the old boundaries of Prussia this last week, to get a better idea of where her ancestors lived.) :)
"older" members, not "other" members. Autocorrect strikes again.
ReplyDeleteWell, that didn't take long at all. Effective today, the CDOL pages for the Church's areas have been updated to reflect the 2023 area leadership changes. I just now looked at the Africa Central Area information, and Nigeria and there have been no changes noted in the list of nations pertaining to that area. Africa West still lists Nigeria and Chad as pertaining to that area. Since I have also not seen a change made to the area webpages for Africa Central or Africa West, or on the Newsroom pages for the associated nations, I can now verify that the map included with the area assignments contained geographical errors. Hope this information is helpful to all who read it.
ReplyDeleteThanks, James. I figured that was likely the case when those maps were published a while back; it is good to get confirmation that is the case from CDOL and the area webpages.
ReplyDelete--Felix
The Wikipeidia Area (LDS Church) maps and info show another change: Sudan has been moved to Middle East / Africa Area. South Sudan stayed in Africa Central Area. Wikipedia shows no Church presence in Chad, South Sudan, or Sudan, so I'm not sure it makes much difference which area presidency they are under, except for a few members who might live there.
ReplyDeleteHere is a posted article in Church News with interior photos of the new Brasília Brazil Temple soon to be dedicated.
ReplyDelete"See interior, exterior photos of the Brasília Brazil Temple and its unique architecture and design
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2023/8/1/23811142/brasilia-brazil-temple-interior-exterior-photos-unique-architecture-design
And also the Open House tickets available for the Bangkok Thailand Temple.
"Open-house reservations available for Bangkok Thailand Temple
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2023/8/1/23814660/bangkok-thailand-temple-open-house-reservations-brazil-feather-river-california-mcallen-texas
San Diego closing and the other temples.
ReplyDeleteClosest would likely be Newport Beach, Redlands may take less time than LA due to the fact there is not as much traffic on the 15 until you get close to Riverside on the 215.
The 405 is notorious for traffic issues, so either Newport Beach or Redlands is likely preferred and for that reason.
SW Salt Lake County will need one soon as it is filling fast and the roads meander and have slower speed limits. Few roads have over 30 MPH and all tend to have more lights than the area otherwise would have ocmpared to the rest of the Salt Lake Valley so to get to Oquirrh Mountain it might take a little longer than thought so a local temple in Herriman would make a generally moderate travel time and experience that much better.
San Diego is closing to do three things in particular along with the expected refreshing:
1. Fix water leakage issues with parts of the roof and some windows.
2. Repurpose the area that had been the cafeteria.
3. Enlarge the ordinance rooms (likely meaning the rooms the endowment is done in).
Craig, When the map was placed on Wikipedia early this year (I was the one that uploaded it), Sudan was already part of the Middle East/Africa North Areas.
ReplyDeletehttps://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LDS_Area_World.png
In February, I noticed Armenia/Georgia was moved from Europe Central to Europe East Area so there was an update to the map.
There has been some smaller changes that will be incorporated into the new map in a few days. One I've noticed so far is that the new Gore Oklahoma Stake as well as a congregation in Kansas was moved from the Arkansas Bentonville Mission to the Oklahoma Oklahoma City Mission and consequently moved into the NA Southwest Area.
With two new stakes in Eastern Oklahoma in the last few months, I wonder if they'll announce a temple in Tulsa. It would have at least 5 stakes in its temple district. It's only 2 to 2 1/2 hours its its nearest temple (Bentonville or OK City), but so was Springfield Missouri.
I wouldn't be surprised at all at this point, especially after the Springfield Missouri announcement
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteStarting today The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is rolling out a plan where all households can get each of the three Church magazines for free.
ReplyDeleteI looked into it and it will not start for where I live until February 2024.
This is a great development. I know people can access it all online, but having a printed copy is very helpful.
The figure of 100 million endowments by 1988 was in the Church News in around August of that year. The BYU Library has a complete run of the print version and the Deseret News may have an archive of things not on the current Church News site. Truman Madsen got the figure from that mention there.
ReplyDeleteSo, a couple of odd thoughts I had, plus a fun activity:
ReplyDeleteI was thinking about a potential Mongolia Temple, and wondering whether they would (since it's a landlocked country, surrounded by Russia and China, and materials might therefore be more difficult to import) - if they would decide to build it out of simpler materials, like they did with Kinshasa, DRC (which used concrete blocks for the walls that were then painted white on the outside).
Thoughts?
And while I searched up the Kinshasa Temple, I stumbled upon this cool Bahá’í House of Worship (also in Kinshasa):
https://news.bahai.org/story/1649/
I read the article and got to learn a bit about the Bahá’í Faith that I hadn't known.
It got me thinking, since we are taking the Gospel to all the world, I believe it's important to be acquainted with other religions and their beliefs and practices - not only out of desire to convert them, but because God has given portions of His light to all peoples, nations, and kindreds, so they therefore have principles to share with us that we can learn from.
So, my question is, who here has visited temples/churches/mosques/synagogues/shrines/kingdom halls or houses of worship of other faiths, and which ones?
Here's a few of mine:
-Sikh Temple, Salt Lake Area
-Hari Krishna Temple, Payson, Utah (Festival of Colors, etc.)
-Catholic Mass @ Cathedrals, Louisville and Lexington, Kentucky
-Buddhist Church, Ogden, Utah
Definitely agree with learning about and from other religious traditions! It's been very fulfilling in my life
DeleteFor me:
- Catholic Mass ~ 8 times, in both Latin and English with a good Catholic friend
- a conservative Church of Christ from the Stone-Campbell Restoration with another good friend
- Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Independence Missouri
-Church of Christ (Temple Lot), Independence Missouri
I also tried to attend the Church of Christ (Cutlerite) and the Community of Christ, also in Independence, but discovered that the Culterites don't appreciate visitors and that I got the CoC meeting time wrong
@Religlang
DeleteThanks for sharing about the other Churches you've been to!
It's interesting to me that you mentioned the Cutlerites, as my great great grandfather's brother helped found them (and a majority of their presidents have been Whitings). I've only read about them in my own family's history books or on Wikipedia.
I forgot a few other faiths' houses of worship I've been to:
-2 Separate Baptist Churches in one Evening on my mission (Owensboro, Kentucky)
-Non-Denominational Christian Youth Group when I was in High School (Montana)
-Buddhist Temple in Layton, Utah for a Fall Festival
-The Historical Native American St. Mary's Mission in my hometown of Stevensville, Montana (it was originally established to serve a congregation of the Salish Tribe in the 19th Century)
That reminds me, I also went to a summer bible camp at a evangelical protestant church when I was very young, probably 5 or so. I don't remember many clear details besides asking my mother about the crosses they had there and why we didn't use them, though
DeleteYour family connection to the Culterites is really interesting! I would like to learn more about their teachings but its difficult with how isolated they are.
Delete@Religlang
DeleteYeah, I confess I don't know much about them, except that several of my distant cousins have been members.
I remembered a few more other churches I've visited, too:
On the Mission:
-A Spanish-Speaking Seventh-Day Adventist Church in Evansville, Indiana.
-A Couple of Spanish-Speaking Evangelical/Pentecostal Churches in Indiana
-A Spanish-Speaking Non-Denominational Christian Church in Owensboro, KY
-And I once performed an Improv Comedy Show at an English-Speaking Christian Church in Utah (don't remember which faith, though).
Looks like the church has become temple crazy everywhere. You look, they're announcing temples. And many have been announced, but nothing is happening.
ReplyDeleteIs become a common thing that every conference. People try to guess how many temples will be announced. I don't think the number of temples is so important, but the work that we do inside of them is important. It is become a joke set at the end of every conference President. The church will announce more and more temples. Then any other President, the church is ever announced. It's nice to hear a new temples, but it would be better if they were built-in a timely manner before we build more or announced more temples.
Yeah, I have similar feelings
DeleteI remember when President Thomas S Monson announced a hold on temple announcements due to backlog. But I think it only lasted a year. Might have been on 2014 I think.
DeleteFound it. Open talk of April 2014 conference: "Although we are currently concentrating our efforts on completing the previously announced temples and will not be announcing any new temples in the immediate future, we will continue the process of determining needs and of finding locations for temples yet to come. Announcements will then be made in future general conferences. We are a temple-building and a temple-attending people."
Delete2 temples announced on April 6, 2013 and next temples announced were 3 in April 2015. With President Monson's report from above in between.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Johnathon Reese Whiting, the exact source is the Church News, August 27, 1988, "Endowments Bless the living and the Dead" by Richard O. Cowan
ReplyDeleteThanks for citing the article source for me, Whizzbang.
DeleteSlowing announcing new temples makes no logistical sense. The need for more temples is great, the obstacles in the way of building them are many, and logistically the ones in process are not delayed by announcing more.
ReplyDeleteThe underlying need is for the temple to become a regular part of the worship of every Latter-day Saint.
To accomplish this there need to be temples easily accessible to the vast majority of Katter-day Saints. We are not to that point, but we are getting closer.
Considering this September will see the first case of 3 temples dedicated in one day, I do not think it is fair to say there is no progress being made.
I'd also add that some temples are delayed through no fault of the prophet inspired to announce them. We've been getting temple construction announcements at least 3 times a month, and sometimes more frequently. I think we need to be very careful about suggesting in any way that we know more about what the Lord wants in terms of time construction than the prophet, since he is the only one currently authorized to speak on the Lord's behalf. If the Lord wants all these temples announced, they will be built and dedicated in His due time according to His purposes. I know that is true.
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DeleteI did some math a few years ago and the average time from announcement to ground breaking took about 3-5 years. And the average construction time also about another 3-4 years. There are some outliers that took either much quicker or much longer. However current statistics of most temples are on average moving along much quicker than in the past except for maybe the late 1990s era of President Hinkley. However the I think smaller size of those made it easier to get approval from the local governments and most were designed to be built quickly and many needed renovations to resolve issues later on. They were designed to bring the temple to remote the people as soon as possible.
ReplyDeleteIn April 2014 President Monson Announced "Although we are currently concentrating our efforts on completing the previously announced temples and will not be announcing any new temples in the immediate future, we will continue the process of determining needs and of finding locations for temples yet to come. Announcements will then be made in future general conferences. We are a temple-building and a temple-attending people_. That lasted about a year
ReplyDeleteThe Mazatenango Guatemala Las Flores Stake was created 06/11/2023 & the Chiquimula Guatemala South District was created 03/26/2023
ReplyDeleteThe Mazatenango Guatemala Las Flores Stake includes the El Compromise, Las Flores, Mazatenango Oriente, Samayak, San Antonio Suchtepequez, and San Bernardino Wards and the Chicacao Branch, which might be upgraded to a ward in the near term.
DeleteThe Chiquimula District, as mentioned, was created on March 26 with the Esquipulas, Impala, Quetzaltepeque, and San Luis Branches. My thanks once again to you all.
Elder Holland has been hospitalized again:
ReplyDeletehttps://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/elder-holland-health
https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2023/8/3/23818975/churchs-issues-update-on-elder-jeffrey-r-holland-health
My thanks once again to you all.
This news saddens me a lot. Elder Holland is to me one of the most prolific and moving speakers I have ever known, and he is certainly one of my dearest apostles.
DeleteMine too. I know that in some cases, when a spouse dies, the surviving spouse isn't far behind. I hope that's not the case here. President Ballard lost his wife 5 years ago and is still going strong, so I have similar hopes for Elder Holland. But the Lord knows the times and seasons of our lives. I know He has a plan for Elder Holland, and whether he does or doesn't survive this, I'm grateful we have had his sage wisdom for so long.
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DeleteThe era from 1997-2000 saw temples built very fast. For example the Deteoit temple was announced in August 1998 and dedicated in October 1999.
ReplyDeleteNot announcing them at general conference but when it felt things were ready was one point. I think President Hinckley had an idea where the 30 to 32 temples were in April 1998. However he did not announce any then.
In the case of the Detroit Temple it is smaller than the adjacent stake center, on land the Church already owned, on a super busy road, and in fact about 5 parking spaces were eliminated when it was built.
The Grand Rapids Temple was announced in October 2022. Since no ground breaking is scheduled I do not think it was be dedicated by December 2023, which is what it would need to beat the Detroit record.
My understanding is the Church of Jesus Christ had picked out the site and negotiated the purchase before the temple was announced. It was purchased from another church. The existing building will need to be torn down, various approvals will be needed and so on.
I believe Cleveland has now taken longer from announcement to dedication than Columbus, or is just about to.
Actually take that back. Columbus was announced end of April 1998 and dedicated early September 1999. Cleveland was announced April 2022, so we hit the right time frame about the end of August 2023, but we still have not had a ground breaking. Cleveland will be about 1000 square feet smaller than Columbus, but it is not on an existing church site.
I have to admit I wish temples were built faster. However I am not convinced building fewer would cause those being built to go up faster.
I really hope that Mazatenango gets a temple. And not just because of how fun it joining Huehuetenango and Quetzaltenango would be.
ReplyDeleteJust to put this in perspective when I was born there were no temples in any Spanish-speaking country. I am 42. The day I was born the Tokyo Temple was dedicated.
On an unrelated note I do hope Elder Holland recovers. I will miss him profoundly.
Prophet | # of Temples Announced | Average Years to Groundbreaking | Shortest | Longest
ReplyDeleteKimball | 31 | 2.65 | 5 months (Taipei) | 14.36 years (Guayaquil)
Benson | 9 | 2.06 | 1 year (Mount Timpanogos) | 3.18 years (Madrid)
Hunter | 3 | 2.67 | 1.82 years (Cochabamba) | 4.33 years (Nashville)
Hinckley | 78 | 1.09 | 18 days (Oaxaca) | 8.91 years (Kyiv)
Monson | 45 | 3.06 | 7 months (Provo City Center) | 8.28 years (Urdaneta)
Nelson | 56* | 1.71 | 2.5 months (Helena) | 4.64 years (Managua)**
*133 announced, but 56 (42%) have had groundbreakings held
** Cagayan de Oro and Russia are still pending groundbreakings, which were announced 5.33 years ago
@Gnesileah
DeleteThanks for the stats. My guess is that the Russia (or China Temple) will end up being the longest for President Nelson, but we'll see.
I am sorry to switch topics again, but I have been thinking quite a bit about the topic of inactivity and resignation from the Church. There are some in this forum (and especially elsewhere) who would probably claim that resignation and inactivity are rampant phenomena in the Church, especially in my generation (younger millennial here). I've always felt at odds with it because this is just not what I'm seeing in my own environment. Granted, I've probably experienced the Church in more of its most prevalent social contexts than most (in Utah, in the US outside of Utah, and outside of North America), and I've also worked with the youth of the Church for what feels like every calling I've had since I got off my mission almost a decade ago. Again, this is entirely subjective, but I hope the fact that I'm drawing from experiences in several units in several countries hopefully gives this a tad bit of credibility.
ReplyDeleteStarting with my personal environment, all of my friends and closer acquaintances from my undergrad days in college (Weber State) are now married in the temple. All 15 or so of them are active and are raising their growing families in the Church. With us all in our late 20s/very early 30s, the average number of children per family is about 3, but it goes up to 5, which (my understanding) is a very similar trajectory as LDS families from 50 years ago. But maybe I just picked very faithful friends.
The same continues through YSA wards I've been in, and even to people I didn't associate with that much during that time. When I was Elders Quorum president in one of them, I made an effort to get to know all the 120 or so Melchizedek Priesthood holders in the ward. About half of them were attending regularly at the time. I've kept up with many of them over the years, at least through social media, and again, by far the most common trajectory has been marriage in the temple and by now multiple kids, with high levels of Church involvement. But perhaps that's just Utah.
So I thought about my mission in Switzerland which, at the time, was essentially blocked off for non-European missionaries. As a result, those of us who were allowed to go became a pretty tightknit community. We don't have annual meetups/temple trips anymore because growing family sizes are making the logistics increasingly complex, but we still have a Facebook Messenger group where we share mission memories and life milestones (usually marriage and the birth of children). Of the ~100 of us in the group - and this is a quite comprehensive list of people who were serving in German-speaking Switzerland at the time - pretty exactly three are no longer active in the Church to my knowledge, and one has passed away. The overwhelming majority of the rest of us is married with children and active in the Church. But maybe serving a mission is the factor here, so let's look at youth who have not gone yet. (Part 2 follows)
(Part 2)
ReplyDeleteWithin about a week of returning from my mission, I was called to teach seminary in my stake in Germany. Although I wasn't there for that long due to me moving again for college, I was able to get to know the 25 or so youth who would attend quite well. As far as I can track them down on social media today, about 80% of them show very clear evidence of being active in the Church. Most of that group (including as far as I can tell all young men) have served missions. Three of them that I know are currently serving as temple workers here in Frankfurt. Some of the older ones are starting families. I see similar rates of activity of youth in our Illinois ward where we lived and taught the high school-aged youth for the last couple of years before moving back to Germany. Of the 9 kids in our class, five are on missions now, and the other 4 are all preparing to serve once they graduate high school. In that ward, 100% of the youth of active member families had temple recommends, and for at least two of our temple trips that my wife and I had been involved in, we got 100% turnout, or 19 out of 19 youth from active families to make the trek to Indianapolis/Nauvoo.
Honorable mentions: My wife's 76 first cousins are all (!) still active. With one exception and as far as I can tell, everyone who was active in the ward I got baptized in when I joined the Church 12 years ago is still active. I was "worried" about another one of them because I know he had shared some concerns in a Facebook post a few years ago, but then I saw him at the temple last week.
So I'm wondering, what am I doing differently? Am I just really lucky with my in-laws, friends, mission, and wards I've lived in on two different continents? Or are we massively overstating the inactivity and resignation crisis in the Church? I'm genuinely curious. Of course, in a sense, it is always tragic when someone abandons the principles they once had a testimony of. But my overwhelming impression is that we still have the "99", and the overwhelming majority of them is in to stay active and committed for life.
IMO, the Russia temple will not see a groundbreaking until *at least* Putin is no longer President of Russia. A completely different view of the Russia government on religion would have to occur. I know that you don't have to have one of the fifteen at a groundbreaking, but frankly, at this point, I'm not sure having *any* non-Russian member of the Church preside at a groundbreaking would be a good idea, and I'm not even sure at this point, the last time the Church purchased land in Russia.
ReplyDeleteIt is my belief that the only time the Church tried to build a temple with as hostile a National government was Nauvoo and while certainly tragic, if building started today for a temple in Russia, I wouldn't be *that* surprised to see a similar fate, vandalism and arson destroying everything except the exterior walls within six months.
I think that *is* recognized by the church leadership, which is functionally why there is an indefinite hold.
China, OTOH, *might* see something equivalent to NYC, A *small* temple (imagine a room that doubles as the sealing room and the celestial room!) in an existing building owned by the church. I don't see the Chinese government allowing it at the moment, but still more likely in the near future with less chance of destruction.
I haven't got a clue why the Cagayan de Oro Philippines temple hasn't had a groundbreaking.
I think you're right about the Russia temple. I am glad that the Church has 3 Russian native area seventies in the Europe East Area presidency. That may help move things along with the Russia temple if/when the governmental regime changes.
Delete@Gnesileah
ReplyDeleteAgain, thanks for this fascinating information on the timelines of temples announced and the period of time from announcement to the groundbreakings. And it's amazing how these announced temples have accelerated in recent years, especially under President Nelson.
Mazatenango is probably not going to see a temple in the near future with one already announced for Retalhuleu. The creation of another stake in Mazatenango might help with getting the temple in Retalhuleu moving faster, however. My, admittedly long, list of potential locations has one possibly down for Villa Nueva but as others have pointed out, multiple temples for the Metro Guatemala City region would not be surprising at all.
ReplyDeleteJust my two cents on the matter.
Technically Pago Pago is the temple that had the longest time from announcement to ground breaking that was announced by President Kimball. That is I believe 45 years. The fact that it was superceded by Apia makes this a hard to track fact. Are we counting the Apia or Pago Pago announcement date to get the average for the 31 temples announced by President Kimball when we input the first Samoan Temple?
ReplyDeleteIt seems under President Benson we are just ignoring the 1st phase announcement of Hartford. That make the figures a little off.
Did we include the pist-fire Apia Temple in the President Hinckley stats. Samoa has lots of unique factors.
What category could we put Independence Missouri or Far West?
DeleteI meant post-fire Apia Temple. I need to look closer.
ReplyDeleteThe difference between announcing temples basically at random and announcing them in conference is Wirth considering.
The vast majority of ground breaking are done by general authority seventies. However during Covid there were several done by area seventies. I was thinking McAllen might have had its ground breaking dine by its first president, but he was not the area seventy who did the Groundbreaking.
The Phenon Penh Cambodia Temple had the Groundbreaking done by the mission president. Elder Bednar did the Bentonville Arkansas Temple Groundbreaking remotely.
It is probably worth extending out the statistics to include two more numbers, total time from announcement to dedication. and total time from Groundbreaking to dedication.
There we have another complicating issue. Do we just keep all stats under the announcing president or do we do Groundbreaking to dedication based on the president when ground is broken? Or do the time both based on president when the temple was announced and president when ground was broken?
Groundbreaking to dedication I believe there have only been 4 President Nelson announced temples, with 4 more with dedication dates.
I was told that Layton Utah Temple is delayed because they are seeking to soundproof it more due to noise from Hill Airforce takeoff.
There is another outlier I did not mention again. President Hinckley essentially announced the Paris France Temple in 1998. However nothing was able to be done then. Then when it was announced it was done about 3 weeks early when a French Newspaper leaked the details.
Chris, Wikipedia classifies Far West and Independence as "Efforts suspended":
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_temples_of_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#Efforts-suspended
And Rick's temple site classifies them both as "Temples of the Restoration":
https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/temples/chronology/
Either term works for me.
For the information of any who are interested, I have posted a revised version of my October 2023 General Conference predictions, including revisions/expansions to my list of potential future temples. With my ongoing thanks to Matt for graciously allowing me to share such updates here, here is the web address for the post in question:
ReplyDeletehttps://stokessoundsoff.blogspot.com/2023/08/updated-october-2023-general-conference.html
So as to not clog up the comment threads here, I'd ask that any comments or questions be submitted to that post's thread on my blog. My thanks once again to you all.
James, I thank you for your updated October 2023 Conference comments on your other blog. I am just going to make one small observation here. I thought earlier this week you had confirmed that officially on the CDOL list of locations, that the Area boundaries had not been realigned this week on August 1st, 2023. Based off of an erroneous map posted with the new Area presidencies photos to begin August 1st.
ReplyDeleteIn other words, on your updated October 2023 possible locations list, you have the city of Vilnius Lithuania, from the Vilnius Lithuania District that is assigned to the Baltic Mission, that is under the sphere of influence of the Euro-Atlantic (EU/NATO) communities. And has not been reassigned as i thought from the map, from the Europe North or Central Area back to the Europe East Area. You confirmed on August 1st no change. But on your list, it is posted under the Europe East Area instead of Europe North or Central Area.
This was the map originally posted here on July 2nd by MLewis.
ReplyDeletehttps://assets.ldscdn.org/cb/99/cb991a8b546c11ec8634eeeeac1eadf429d71314/area_leadership_chart_updated_annually.pdf
Chris, per the August 2022 Area Leadership changes, when the Europe Areas split, Lithuania was indeed assigned to the Europe North Area:
Deletehttps://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/first-presidency-announces-2022-area-leadership-assignments
Good catch. I will amend that.
It takes time to build a temple. Eventually all the temples will be built. 40 years to build the Slat lake temple. It is so easy to criticize. But all the temples will be built and many people on all sides of the veil
ReplyDelete40 years for the Salt Lake Temple is from Groundbreaking to completion. From announcement to completion it is almost 47 years.
ReplyDeleteI believe the next longest is Los Angeles which I believe takes 28 years.
You had mentioned that the recently organized Breda Netherlands Stake and the Brussels Belgium North Stake were not new stakes but simply renamed. That is not actually the complete story. The former Antwerp Belgium Stake included the Breda, Eindhoven, Den Bosch, and Heerlen wards, all of which were in the Netherlands. The new Brussels Belgium North stake is entirely IN Belgium, with the exception of the Heerlen Military Ward, which is in the Netherlands. It consists of the Antwerp Ward, Gent Ward, Brussels Grimbergen Ward, the St. Niklaas wards, all in Belgium, and includes the Heerlen Military Ward, which is an English-speaking ward located in the very south-eastern part of The Netherlands. The new Breda Netherlands Stake includes the Breda, Eindhoven, Den Bosch, Utrecht, Spijkinisse, Rotterdam 1st and 2nd wards. Breda, Eindhoven, and Den Bosch wards were in the Antwerp Belgium Stake. The others were in the former Rotterdam Netherlands Stake.
ReplyDeleteRecently, someone posted asking about the creation of the Breda Netherlands Stake and the Brussels Belgium North Stake. They were told that those were just renaming of stakes and that they didn't count as new stakes. That isn't really the complete story. These were both major realignment of wards to basically have all but one of the wards in the Belgium stake, be IN Belgium. That has never happened before. In order for Cumorah.com's map and stake listing to be correct, it should be noted. The prior named Antwerp Belgium Stake included the Eindhoven, Breda, Den Bosch, and Heerlen wards, all of which are in The Netherlands. The Brussels Belgium North Stake now has only wards, which are the Antwerp, Brussels Grimbergen, Gent, St. Niklaas, ans Heerlen Military Ward (English-Speaking). Only the Heerlen ward is in the Netherlands. It is in the very south-eastern corner of the Netherlands. That is the first time that a Belgian Stake has had primarily all Belgian wards. The newly renamed Breda Netherlands Stake kept the Dutch-speaking wards from the Antwerp Stake , which are Breda, Eindhoven, and Den Bosch. Sadly there is no longer a stake in Rotterdam. The new Breda stake absorbed the Utrecht, Spijkenisse, Rotterdam 1st, and Rotterdam 2nd wards with no branches. Can that be shown as updated? How do I contact Cumorah.com to have them list the newly named stakes and with the new boundaries of those stakes?
ReplyDeleteRecently, someone posted asking about the creation of the Breda Netherlands Stake and the Brussels Belgium North Stake. They were told that those were just renaming of stakes and that they didn't count as new stakes. That isn't really the complete story. These were both major realignment of wards to basically have all but one of the wards in the Belgium stake, be IN Belgium. That has never happened before. In order for Cumorah.com's map and stake listing to be correct, it should be noted. The prior named Antwerp Belgium Stake included the Eindhoven, Breda, Den Bosch, and Heerlen wards, all of which are in The Netherlands. The Brussels Belgium North Stake now has only wards, which are the Antwerp, Brussels Grimbergen, Gent, St. Niklaas, ans Heerlen Military Ward (English-Speaking). Only the Heerlen ward is in the Netherlands. It is in the very south-eastern corner of the Netherlands. That is the first time that a Belgian Stake has had primarily all Belgian wards. The newly renamed Breda Netherlands Stake kept the Dutch-speaking wards from the Antwerp Stake , which are Breda, Eindhoven, and Den Bosch. Sadly there is no longer a stake in Rotterdam. The new Breda stake absorbed the Utrecht, Spijkenisse, Rotterdam 1st, and Rotterdam 2nd wards with no branches. Can that be shown as updated? How do I contact Cumorah.com to have them list the newly named stakes and with the new boundaries of those stakes?
ReplyDeleteReally weird to compare the new temples being built using modular construction, in the 21st century, and virtually limitless resources, at a smaller scale and with less unique design features to the Salt Lake Temple.
ReplyDeleteGroundbreaking to completion nowadays can regularly happen in less than a year in accessible areas.The average time between announcement and groundbreaking is about 18 months now. From groundbreaking to dedication (which includes time for open house) is around 2 1/2 years.
Agreed. It is tough to compare some of the recent ones to that schedule due to the effects of COVID putting a pause on *most* things. But Pocatello, Idaho for example was announced in April 2017, groundbreaking in March 2019 and Dedicated in October 2021. I'm not sure what temple was fastest from announcement in GC to dedication.
ReplyDeleteFrankly at this point there are probably temples being built in the US where the time spent with the Zoning Board will take the most time. (And I'm *still* not sure that Cody will go through with the spire at that height).
And if the Church was to build a Stake Center and a Temple side by side, would the Temple cost more than 5 times the Stake Center?
Agree about COVID. Threw a wrench in things somewhat.
ReplyDeleteShortest announcement to dedication was Monticello Utah (9 months 22 days). A bunch of them are just over a year. Longest announcement to groundbreaking was the LA California temple (14 years).
Out of current temples not built, we're still waiting on dedication of the Urdaneta Philippines temple, which was announced back in 2010. And the Cagayan de Oro Philippines and Russia temples don't even have sites announced yet since their announcement in 2018 by President Nelson. Philippines is one country with the most backlogs. 2 temples in operation, 4 under construction, 6 announced but no site location.
Not sure how much a Stake Center costs, but the Widows Mite Report team estimated that temples cost roughly $1,100 per square foot to build. I'm not sure monetary costs are really an issue at this point. Widows Mite estimated that the church could build a total of 1,000 temples in operation by 2040 and not once dip into its investment reserves at Ensign Peak. In other words, on tithing each year alone, the church could build and maintain (including renovations) 1,000 operating temples.
This is for Pascal Friedman. A question: How is the working going with the Turks, but especially the Syrians: to a lesser extent the Iranians, Afghans, and North African who came to Germany in 2015? I asked as a Jewish convert who emigrated with my family from Israel to California when I was 11 years of age and grew up around many Arabs in Haifa. Also in my mission in Bolivia and Los Angeles I ended up baptizing Moslems from Syria, Eqypt, Iran, Lebanon, Turkeyi and Algeria; in addition I baptized Jews from US, Iran, Israel, and Bolivia.
ReplyDeleteAnyone who has knowledge of this please feel free to join in.