See below for a list of likely locations to have new missions announced in the foreseeable future:
AFRICA
- Cote d'Ivoire Daloa (1 stake, 6 districts)
- Democratic Republic of the Congo Likasi (3 stakes)
- Democratic Republic of the Congo Kinshasa (third mission) (4 stakes)
- Gabon Libreville (4 mission branches)
- Ghana Accra (third mission) (4-5 stakes)
- Ghana Koforidua (3 stakes, 2 districts)
- Ghana Kumasi (second mission) (2-3 stakes, 2-3 districts)
- Ghana Takoradi (2 stakes, 2 districts)
- Kenya (second mission - in Eldoret or second in Nairobi) (1-2 stakes, 3-4 districts)
- Liberia Monrovia (second mission) (3 stakes)
- Malawi Lilongwe (2 districts)
- Nigeria Benin City (second mission) (4-5 stakes)
- Nigeria Calabar (4 stakes, 1 district)
- Nigeria Eket (6 stakes)
- Nigeria Lagos (second mission) (4 stakes)
- Nigeria Warri (3 stakes, 3 districts)
- Senegal Dakar (1 district, several mission branches in neighboring countries)
- Sierra Leone Bo (4 stakes, 1 district)
- Togo Lome (2 stakes)
ASIA
- Middle East/African North Service Mission (2 stakes, 3 districts)
- Philippines General Santos (3 stakes, 3 districts)
- Philippines Ormoc (3 stakes, 4 districts)
- Philippines Palawan/Mindoro (1 stake, 4 districts)
- Philippines Tuguegarao (3 stakes, 2 districts)
- Sri Lanka Colombo (1 district)
- Thailand Ubon (1 stake, 1 district)
EUROPE
- Ireland Dublin (2 stakes, 1 district)
- Portugal Porto (3 stakes)
LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN
- Brazil Manaus (~6 stakes)
- Brazil São Luís (2 stakes)
- Brazil São Paulo (sixth mission) (4-5 million, ~7 stakes)
- Brazil Sorocaba (5 stakes, 2 districts)
- Cuba Havana (1 district)
OCEANIA
- Australia Brisbane (second mission) (~6 stakes)
- Australia Sydney (second mission) (~6 stakes)
- French Polynesia (second mission) (~5 stakes)
- Kiribati Tarawa (2 stakes, 3 districts)
- Papua New Guinea Daru (1 stake, 3 districts)
- Samoa (second mission) (~12 stakes)
- Solomon Islands Honiara (1 district)
In the case of Manaus, this is a second mission
ReplyDeleteI don't see the USA on here, but my son is serving in the Phoenix Arizona mission and they've heard of some being called to start their missions to Flagstaff this summer (which is currently part of the Phoenix mission).
ReplyDeleteTransferred from "Apex North Carolina Stake - 432865" to "Raleigh North Carolina Stake - 503991", 3 Wards.
ReplyDeleteBond Park Ward (2140497)
Cary 1st Ward (127833)
Green Level Ward (1102966)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTransferred from "Raleigh North Carolina Stake - 503991" to "Wake Forest North Carolina - (unknown unit #), 4 Wards + 1 Branch.
ReplyDeleteCreedmoor Branch (2078198)
Falls Lake Ward (367575)
Henderson Ward (123218)
Wake Forest 1st Ward (238929)
Wake Forest 2nd Ward (1402013)
Transferred from "Raleigh North Carolina South Stake - 2049619" to "Wake Forest North Carolina Stake - (unknown unit #), 1 Ward.
Knightdale Ward (460222)
Transferred from "Raleigh North Carolina South Stake - 2049619" to "Apex North Carolina stake - 432865", 1 Ward.
ReplyDeleteHarris Lake Ward (1997580)
Garner Ward - 166693 renamed recently Garner 1st Ward - 166693.
ReplyDeleteAnd either reinstated or recently organized the Garner 2nd Branch (Spanish) - 221791, and added to the "Raleigh North Carolina South Stake - 2049169"
Transferred from "Fayetteville North Carolina West Stake - 460230" to "Apex North Carolina Stake - 432865", 1 Ward + 1 Branch.
ReplyDeleteJonesboro Branch (Spanish) (2082241)
Sanford Ward (141186)
So did North Carolina just get another stake? This makes a temple in Charlotte even more likely, although the new unit is in Raleigh Temple district and Charlotte is in Columbia Temple district.
ReplyDeleteI also think a 3rd Temple and maybe even a 4th for North Carolina might eventually be doable. We shall see.
Well, everyone, took me a lot longer than I thought it would, but earlier tonight I was able to get my thoughts down about the most likely temples by Church area, which you can find in the following document:
ReplyDeletehttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1AHEJOqAjEJDN7aXQLlfrkzc2yTVer6E0TRR5eYdNKB8/edit?usp=sharing
My list of specifically-projected temples for 2023 is at the bottom of that document. While I still think this year will be a 21/19 or 19/21 split for a total of 40 temples announced this year (the latter appears more likely because last year was a 17/18 split, with one more last October than in April), I have a total of 26 possible locations scattered across the Church's 23 Church areas.
And speaking of Church areas, since Matt has said that he thinks that the next big area split will be dividing Nigeria from the rest of the Africa West Area, that change could be coming this time around. Anyways, hope my area-by-area breakdown is helpful to everyone.
That being said, I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned the big news today from the Church: Kevin J Worthen will be released as BYU-Provo's president effective May 1. His successor will be BYU's current academic vice president, Brother C. Shane Reese. Brother Worthen will likely rejoin the BYU faculty. For more information, check out these reports:
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/c-shane-reese-byu-14th-president
https://www.thechurchnews.com/members/2023/3/21/23650351/elder-holland-announces-new-byu-president-worthen-reese
https://www.thechurchnews.com/members/2023/3/21/23650762/byu-president-worthen-tenure-notable-events
My thanks once again to you all.
@James Stokes
DeleteI do have one thing to mention about Brother Reese:
He's got a great name. ;)
@James Stokes, not to start a large debate. Upon reviewing your list of projected site announcements for this April 2023 conference. With your preferred top location to be announced.Im regard to your selection for the South America South Area - Osorno Chile. I'm not disputing that choice. But from the 300 current temple sires. As far as I can see, most are located in a city that also has a Mission office located. except the few missions that can include multiple temples within the mission boundaries.
ReplyDeleteSo with the Chile Osorno Mission offices last year being moved to Puerto Montt Chile (possibly a more central location for the whole mission). And renamed the Chile Puerto Montt Mission. I'm not saying either Osorno or Puerto Montt is more deserving of the desired Temple. I wonder if Puerto Montt may be selected first with the new Mission offices. Any thoughts, anyone?
No offense taken. But I'd remind you that the only temple in Guam is in Yigo, and the headquarters of the Guam Micronesia Missio. are in Barrigada, so I'd hesitate to take the general rule you cited as one that will always apply In relation to all temple announcements. And if the Porto Montt Mission was originally based in Osorno, a nod to that history might be preferred. If there's one exceptio, there may be others. No offense intended.
DeleteI noticed Elder Holland is no longer slated to dedicated the Richmond Virginia Temple, as originally announced. Now it is President Oaks. I hope his health isn't deteriorating too quickly; he seems to still be capable of at least completing local assignments. Elder Holland hasn't yet had the chance to dedicate a new temple, although he has rededicated a temple. I hope he gets the chance yet, probably one of the many upcoming Utah temples. It would be nice to see the Red Cliffs and St. George Temples dedicated/rededicated by Elder Holland and/or Elder Stevenson, both of whom are from the area.
ReplyDeleteI can trace the moment when I became aware of the individual members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. It was 1995, I was in 8th grade Russian class, the teacher had the news on TV between classes, and it must have been the Monday after General Conference, where Elder Eyring was added as the newest Quorum member. There were then no changes in the 15 apostles until 2004 (the longest stretch ever without any changes), when Elders Maxwell and Haight died. There are only 5 of those 'original' 15 apostles left (Nelson, Oaks, Ballard, Holland, Eyring), and it will a moment of deep reflection when all will have passed on.
They are probably going to have Elder Holland dedicate Red Cliffs and have some role in rededicating St. George, for the latter of which I believe will have multiple sessions spanning several days and will at least be carried statewide
DeleteAs for Elder Stevenson, he was born and raised in Cache Valley, not Washington County. We know that because he was in attendance at the Smithfield Utah Temple due to his ties to the area (with Elder Cook, the other current Cache Valley apostle, presiding).
Matt,
ReplyDeleteWhen new missions are created, do missions elsewhere absorb losses in numbers of missionaries? Or is there some presumption that the total number of missionaries is on the rise, thereby necessitating new missions?
In other words, what you describe here in your prediction is a demand-side forecast of new missions, and I'm not sure how that matches up with the supply-side forecast of missionaries available.
That will be a significant moment to me too. I have a DVD copy of the original "Special Witnesses of Christ" made during that same period of 1995-2004. It is poignant to me any time I watch it, and brings back memories of my early adulthood including my mission (I went out in 1995). That same group of 15 were the ones who issued the Proclamation on the Family in 1995 and The Living Christ in 2000.
ReplyDeleteThe Church is apparently doing much better with sending out missionaries, especially from the Philippines and Africa based on what I have heard, than they did a decade ago. That matters, since this should compensate for decreases in the number of available missionaries from North America as a result of lower fertility rates.
ReplyDeleteMy best guess would be that increases in the number of missionaries will occur mainly in those places, and the expansion would be achievable without a major splitting of mission resources (and missionaries) in those places. In North America, I doubt that we will see a large number of new missions created in the near future. My best guess would be a few additions in the Sunbelt due to population shifts and possibly a discontinuation or two in a place like California or Washington for the same reason. I am also still hoping to see a mission in a place like Casper, Wyoming (to cover the bulk of Wyoming), and Grand Junction, Colorado (to cover western Colorado and eastern Utah), as both of these would be able to cover a lot of land and give a MP oversight of a large area with relatively high proportions of members that are far away from established mission headquarters.
On a related note, I am currently working on a thought experiment about how we could actually utilize 100 additional missionaries in Germany, mainly to reach additional cities and to better facilitate foreign language outreach. The four wards on the north side of Frankfurt, for example, just held a Spanish/Portuguese sacrament meeting last Sunday that was very well attended. We've had quite a few baptisms of people from South America recently and I wouldn't be surprised if a branch would be created for them here in a year or two. Given the large population and immense diversity, along with a long list of unreached quite sizable cities, I think Germany would make quite a bit out of additional resources if they somehow became available someday. Hence, I hope it is worth dreaming...I will post my thought experiment results a bit later.
One problem with a mission in Grand Junction would be that they would have to cross/modify Area boundaries to include parts of Utah in it. I live in NW Colorado near the Utah border, and the missionaries serving here are not allowed to cross the border to do their shopping in Utah as most of the members do, because it would be crossing an Area boundary (but the missionaries go to larger towns in Colorado often enough that it is not a serious issue for them).
ReplyDeleteYes North Carolina Got a new stake
ReplyDeletePascal, twin, a mission in Grand Junction makes sense logistically, even if not in terms for borders. The current MP and companion spend a lot of time driving from Denver where the mission headquarters are, to Western Colorado, where most of the work is happening. And that is NOT an easy drive, especially in winter. It would be much safer and more efficient to have a Western Colorado Mission to include some of eastern Utah.
ReplyDeleteThanks James, you are right, Elder Stevenson is from the Cache Valley. I was thinking he was from St. George. Am I getting him confused with someone else? Besides Elder Holland, do any other apostles have significant ties to St. George? Thanks.
ReplyDeleteNo other current apostles have ties to southern Utah at all. That being said, the rededication of the pioneer-era temples are going to be significant enough that I'd suspect a higher number of apostles to be involved. We saw the entire First Presidency each preside at a session to rededicate the Washington D.C. Temple, but my gut instinct says there may be more than 3 sessions for St. George's rededication, in which case I'd anticipated that at least the five most senior apostles might have a chance to preside over at least one of those sessions.
DeleteYou might be thinking of former Church Historian and Recorder Elder Steven E. Snow, who is also a St. George native.
Nancy,
ReplyDeleteI agree that having a mission in Grand Junction would make sense, at least in terms of distance and travel considerations (I am aware of those issues, as I live in western Colorado myself). The fact that it is getting a temple would also probably increase the odds for a mission, though I suspect there are some cities with a temple that are not likely to ever be a mission headquarters. Currently we have more missions than temples but that may not be the case for much longer.
I could see a realignment of the 2 Denver missions, with Grand Junction being separated off. (I don't think the Denver South mission is likely to have its headquarters transferred to Grand Junction.) But a mission headquartered there would probably just be the western slope areas of Colorado and could be a small one in terms of the number of missionaries- I don't know how feasible it would be to include parts of Utah because of the Area boundaries issue I mentioned.
What is the likelihood of/process for having the area boundaries adjusted? (Especially the borders of the Utah Area? I believe there is one part of Utah that is in a different area but don't remember where.) Also, what parts of Utah would be included? Are Green River or Moab going to be part of the Grand Junction temple district? Green River doesn't seem to even have a stake but otherwise looks like it could be assigned to Grand Junction (until Price gets a temple), but Moab seems closer to Monticello. Or maybe he was talking about the Vernal area near me- it might not make sense for these areas to switch so it could be a moot point.
twinnumerouno, the boundaries of the six North American areas are weirdly drawn. I could see an eventual scenario where Canada and the US are separate areas, with the boundaries of Canadian provinces and territories and US states serving as dividing points, but that could be 5-10 years off, if it happens at all.
DeleteAlso, the Monticello Utah Temple (and the area it serves) is assigned to the North America Southwest Area.
Delete@twinnumerouno, https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/grand-junction-colorado-temple/district/
ReplyDeleteArea boundaries reflect stake and mission boundaries, not the other way around. (Mission boundaries reflect stake boundaries to a great extent as well.)
ReplyDeleteBy eastern Utah, I was mainly talking about the Uintah Basin (e.g., Vernal and surrounding areas) and the I-70 corridor.
ReplyDeleteI love all the discussion on this blog. I really love all the temple predictions and different forms of analysis being used.
ReplyDeleteI hadn't thought much about the creation of new Areas in the Church until reading some of the comments above. Did you notice that we now sustain Area Presidency members in Stake and Ward Conferences? I just noticed that about a month ago.
I live in the NASW Area. It covers a very large geographical area (NV, AZ, NM, TX, parts of OK, CA and LA). There are 15 temples, 22 missions and 264 stake within the area boundaries.
I would propose the creation of three areas in North America. Expanding from the current six areas to nine areas as follows:
NA SE - No change
NA NE - No change
NA Central - ID, WY, CO, MI, KS, IA, IL
NA West - CA, NV, HI
NA SW - NM, TX, OK, LA
NA NW - OR, WA, BC, AK
NA Arizona - AZ
NA Idaho - ID
NA North - MT, AB, Sask, MB, western ONT, MN, ND, SD
Each Area would be led by a Presidency made up of three General Authority Seventies, with one Area Assistant (usually a GA70). Each Area then could have 12 - 15 local Area Seventies called to administrative duties within the area.
I could also see the following area changes:
ReplyDeleteMexico Area divided to create
Mexico South
Mexico North
Brazil Area divided to create
Brazil South
Brazil North
Two new areas in Africa. Not as knowledgeable about Africa to suggest how the divisions would be made.
@anonymous, Also for several years the country of Chile in South America South Area had it's own Area leadership. with around 80 or 90 Stakes and districts. It may once again be able to split from the rest of SAS Area.
ReplyDeleteAlso, with all 3 countries of Brazil, Mexico and Philippines each over 100 stakes and districts. I could see a split of Peru from the rest of South America Northwest Area to become the Peru area.
Chris D.
ReplyDeleteI actually thought the same about Peru.
Philippines would be the same.
I'm also thinking we get some more temple open house and dedication dates on Monday as a preface to GC commencing next weekend. Maybe a few more renderings or site locations. I'm really curious about the Teton River Temple in Rexburg. Would love to see a rendering.
I'm getting excited to hear from the prophets, seers and revelators next week.
In terms of potential new areas, Matt previously indicated that the next most likely area change would be for Nigeria to split off from the current Africa West Area. Not sure how it would work, but ai could also see an Africa Northwest and Africa Southwest Area
ReplyDeleteBrazil & Mexico had two areas in the past. Not sure why it logistically makes sense to have just one area for each of those nations. anonymous, I liked your proposal to add 3 North America Areas. I could also see an Intermountain West Area, or one or two areas covering the "Mormon corridor" (which is still the correct term for that region which originated after the westward trek):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_corridor
My New/Alternate Criteria for Picking Temple Predictions (April 2023):
ReplyDelete-Next New US State(s)/Territory(ies) To Have Their First Temple(s):
Jackson, Mississippi
Rapid City, South Dakota
New Jersey
-Next New Country/Countries To Have Its First Temple:
Dar es Salaam, Tanzania
Edinburgh, Scotland
Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
Marshall Islands
Guyana/Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
-Next Far Distance Temple(s):
Fairbanks/North Pole, AK
Neuquén (Central Argentina) or Rosario, (Northern Argentina)
Puerto Princesa (Palawan Island), Philippines
Rapid City, South Dakota
-Next US Metro Area(s) To Have Additional Temples:
Springville/Mapleton/Spanish Fork Area, UT
New York Metro: New Jersey
-Next Non-US Metro Area(s) To Have Additional Temples:
Santiago, Chile Metro: Viña del Mar/Valparaíso
-Next Utah Temple(s):
Springville/Mapleton/Spanish Fork Area, UT
-Next Idaho Temple(s):
Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
-Next Intermountain West Temple(s):
Kalispell or Great Falls, Montana
-Next West Coast USA Temple(s):
Fairbanks/North Pole, AK
-Next Central/South USA Temple(s):
Rapid City, South Dakota
Jackson, Mississippi
-Next Midwest/East Coast USA Temple(s):
Cincinnati/Dayton, Ohio
New Jersey
-Next Canada Temple(s):
Lethbridge, Alberta
-Next Mexico Temple(s):
Cancún, MX
-Next Central America/Caribbean Temple(s):
Guyana/Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
-Next Brazil Temple(s):
Cuiabá, Brazil
-Next Rest-of-South America Temple(s):
Osorno/Valdivia/Puerto Montt, Chile (Central Chile)
Santiago Metro #3
-Next Europe Temple(s):
Hamburg, Germany
Edinburgh, Scotland
-Next Africa Temple(s):
Dar es Salaam, Tanzania
-Next Asia Temple(s):
New Delhi, India
Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
-Next Philippines Temple(s):
Puerto Princesa (Palawan Island), Philippines
-Next Oceania Temple(s):
Marshall Islands
Any suggestions?
Johnathan Reese Whiting, my sister and her family love in Mississippi currently, so I'd be elated for a temple there. My dad served in what was then the South Dakota Rapid City Mission (which I believe is now the North Dakota Bismarck Mission), so I'd be elated by a temple there too.
DeleteAs far as New Jersey goes, I was advised several years ago that the first temple in the state would likely go to East Brunswick, so that's the location I prioritized for New Jersey. The Church may or may not already have land for such a prospect.
I think the next Asia North Area Temple is likely to go to Mongolia, and the next Asia Area Temple would be in Indonesia. Some elements of the administrative branch of that nation's government have relocated from Jakarta, but the mission HQ is still there, so I think a temple would go to Jakarta as well. More feedback to follow.
Your choice of Tanzania intrigued me. I haven't studied that prospect yet, but would be intrigued to hear your reasoning on it. Same on the Puerto Princessa prospect. I've prioritized Mapleton over Springville or Spanish Fork, but any of the three are likely. I personally think that Lehi and Herriman are more imminent, but I might be wrong.
DeleteI agree with most of your other picks. It occurred to me to wonder whether Idaho and Montana might have a hiatus on new announcements until the 1 new Montana Temple and the 3 Idaho Temples are further along, but I've been wrong before.
Not much to say on my end regarding the rest of your picks, which seem pretty solid. Don't know about you, but I for one have always gotten at least one surprise when my picks match up against what's actually announced. I'm sure that will continue. Hope this input helps.
@James
DeleteThanks for your comment on my list. I hope your family gets to see temples announced in both Mississippi and South Dakota. :)
I picked Tanzania as a Dark Horse, because that country has seen some growth lately. Africa's next may very well be Uganda, but I thought I'd throw a dart at Tanzania for kicks this time.
Puerto Princesa is one I've been interested in seeing if they'd announce for a while now. Other sites in the Phillipines may be more likely (particularly on Luzon Island), but I thought if they decide to go with the "far distance" model, Puerto Princesa is on a distant island (Palawan) from the main group, and they have 1 stake and 2 districts there, so I thought it might not be too farfetched. It's on Matt's list of less-likely candidates, as well.
As for Montana and Idaho, Coeur d'Alene and Kalispell are personal picks, as they would bring more and closer options to where I live. I'm pretty sure they'll both happen at some point. I'm very hopeful they'll happen sooner, rather than later.
Great Falls is another possibility for Montana (and I have friends who live there, so I'd be happy for them), but it wouldn't really be closer for us than Helena, Missoula, Spokane, or Cardston; so I'm holding out hope for Kalispell & Coeur d'Alene.
Speaking of Cardston, I was able to finally go back to do temple work there a few weeks ago (my first time back in about 30 years). Really cool and spiritual experience. I'd forgotten how elaborate and different the architecture is on the inside. My niece was able to perform the baptism for my Grandmother, who passed away at 100 years-old 3 years ago. :)
James, Kansas City temple has had to add 2 endowment sessions, and all sessions.
ReplyDeleteUnknown, not sure whether you were addressing me, but I'll answer just the same. Right now (assuming the Church Temples site is accurate), the Kansas City Temple district shows 10 stakes from Western Missouri, 4 from Northeastern Kansas, and 2 from Northwestern Arkansas.
DeleteThat district will be impacted by the September 17 dedication of the Bentonville Arkansas, and again by the eventual dedication of the Wichita Kansas Temple.
So if you were addressing me, I'm not sure why you're referencing the activity level of the Kansas City Missouri Temple. If I'm missing whatever point you were trying to make, please enlighten me.
Johnathan, Here is the Temple bracket that I prepared for this Conference:
ReplyDeletehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/168_aToErqewJY5euxFTwmzy9NUFdSXc-/view?usp=sharing
Thanks, Cory!
DeleteSince we're sharing Temple Brackets, I made this alternate one in between hearing from you. It's a little simpler (by state, country, region, etc.).
I made it so that choosing will be a little easier for the kids in our household who like to participate in the "Temple Madness" each Conference (I'll probably print out both versions, and let them choose which one (or both) they'd like to fill out).
My link here is available to you or anyone else who'd like to try it out:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yO9TI-rwyTjycNKkntDErQsBRnzMNKds/view?usp=drivesdk
Let me know what you think, and any suggestions or adjustments for the future. :)
All of the kansas city temple sessions are full if you cant make it you have to cancel so someone else can go and yes arkansas temple will help but not much buildings in arkansas almost have 5 wards per building
ReplyDeleteJames,yes it is correct the temple president is in my stake actally his home ward is the same as mine
ReplyDeleteUnknown, I'm a little lost here. I'm not sure why you directed information about the Kansas City Missouri Temple and the stakes in Bentonville to me. Are you suggesting that the areas that are served by the Kansas City Missouri Temple and that will be served by the Bentonville Arkansas and Wichita Kansas Temples will need at least one other temple? If that's what you're saying, what exactly do you want me to do with that information? I'm sorry if I somehow missed your meaning here, but I'd appreciate any answers you can give me to these questions. Thanks.
DeleteHeard that some in NW Arkansas go to OKC, but then I am not sure on that
ReplyDeleteI think Tulsa would be an option for a small temple, although it is hard to tell how much this would shave off the level of business in KC. The only stake that would probably switch in that scenario is Joplin.
ReplyDeleteReported today in the online version of the Church News,
ReplyDelete"New stakes
A new stake has been created from the La Vega Dominican Republic District. The La Vega Dominican Republic Stake, which consists of the Conani, Jarabacoa, La Espanola, Los Framboyanes, Moca and Primavera wards, was created by Elder Eduardo Gavarret and Elder Jorge M. Alvarado, General Authority Seventies.
LA VEGA DOMINICAN REPUBLIC STAKE: (Dec. 18, 2022) President — Giovanny Alexandro Bare, 34, business owner; wife, Vilar Mercado Bare. Counselors — Yoel Algeny Hernández Núñez, 42, Moca Aqueduct and Sewerage Corp. design and budget section employee; wife, Katherine Miguelina Gutiérrez Hilario. Pedro Antonio De La Cruz, 52, independent tax and financial consultant; wife, Rosa Mercedes Toribio Ureña."
https://www.thechurchnews.com/callings/2023/3/26/23656564/21-new-and-reorganized-stakes-washington-dominican-republic-provo-rexburg-ysa
James,
ReplyDeleteUnknown is probably asking you because you and Matt seem to know everything. After reading this blog I've gained so much insight into what were puzzling questions that I'm starting to think that regardless of what the question is, the best place to direct church growth related inquiries is to you guys. Along those lines, do you have any predictions about what interesting things might happen in General Conference in addition to temple announcements?
Kimberley, thanks for your kind words. twinnumerouno has highlighted a few things we can expect. I'd just add that changes in the Presidency of the Seventy are possible, and 1-3 changes effective August 1 could be sustained in advance. The statistical report will be released at or near the beginning of the Saturday Afternoon Session.
DeleteThere are a minimum of 6 area seventies called as mission presidents this year, and 1 other was called as a temple president, so they are loky to be released either in the leadership sessions prior to conference or else in August.
Organizationally, only the Church's geographical areas have not been significantly overhauled since President Nelson became the prophet. Could that happen? Maybe.
New scripture could be canonized at any time, an update on the new music might be provided, or something else differentiating between Church doctrine and mere traditions could be clarified or changed.
But I'm personally more intrigued by the Newsroom's announcement for this conference which, being held on Palm Sunday, will consist of "five unique, two-hour sessions."
Thanks again for the kind words and the inquiry.
Also, as one of several initiatives to expand the reach of the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square, the Choir has invited qualified singers from various regions as specified to join the Choir in their General Conference performances this weekend, so there's that as well:
Deletehttps://www.ldsliving.com/tabernacle-choirs-new-initiatives-auditions-coming-for-non-us-singers-spoken-word-in-other-languages/s/11148
Thanks again.
I'm not James or Matt, but I have noticed a few things about April conferences:
ReplyDelete1- with rare exceptions, new General Authority seventies are always called in April (releases are usually in October)
2- there is usually a change in one of the general organization presidencies- probably the Young Women's this time since they have been serving for 5 years
3- the church will release statistics for 2022 during or just before the conference (there will also be an audit report in April conference)
Have I missed anything?
I'm thinking the audit report is probably going to be a little different this Conference than previous ones...
ReplyDeleteWhy would you think that? The Church statement said the issue with the SEC has been resolved, and a highly detailed report on the Church's charitable giving for last year has been released. Why would there be a need to alter what has been a standard statement for decades?
DeleteIf you're referring to the SEC ruling, I wouldn't be shocked if someone mentions it. But the reports I have seen said the change was made in 2019 and the church (and Ensign Peak) have been in compliance since. I'm not sure it would even come up in an audit for 2022.
ReplyDeleteOn 3/26/23 Major changes occurred in South Central Florida involving Four Stakes, Three Missions and Six units. The Fort Pierce Ward and Okeechobee Branch where transferred out of the Vero Beach Florida Stake to the Stuart Florida Stake and the Ft. Lauderdale Mission. The Melbourne Ward and Satellite Beach Ward were transferred from the Cocoa Florida Stake to Vero Beach Florida Stake. The Sebring Ward and the Lake Placid Spanish Branch where transferred from the Vero Beach Stake to the Lakeland Florida Stake in the Tampa Florida Mission. This is the second time Sebring has been in the Lakeland Stake and their third different stake in 15 years. There are rumor that there could be other changes in the Miami, Naples and Ft. Meyers area as places are lined up for the Tampa Florida Temple, The Ft. Lauderdale Florida Temple and the Orlando Florida Temple boundaries
ReplyDeleteI know I complain sometimes about growth trends--But I do see some positivity. Yesterday, at Sunday School we welcomed back a member who came back after more than a decade, and earlier we got a moving testimony from a re-activating member telling of the path back and what motivated it.
ReplyDeleteKimberly ,also a person who is in the middle of the country can give you an idea of what going on in the church that Utah doesnt tell you about or a report will tell you . boots on the ground ,just like james can tell us about the church in mississippi. they are moving wards around to different stakes
ReplyDeleteUnknown, thanks for that suggestion. Just to clarify, knowledge I share here on any point is learned through research when I don't know someone with "boots on the ground". I also have a network of Church contacts that are my "boots on the ground" in many major world areas, which is why I can give information on such areas.
DeleteThe Church News reports that the Kennewick Washington Stake was divided to create the Richland Washington South Stake.
ReplyDeleteWe finally have a date for the dedication of the Bangkok Thailand Temple. October 22nd with the open house running from September 1 to September 16.
ReplyDeleteWe also got confirmation of 3 temple groundbreakings and a rendering for the Cody Wyoming Temple just 2 weeks after the site was confirmed.
DeleteAgreed about the audit report. It would have been more appropriate for there to have been a statement about critical matters regarding internal controls in 2014 or 2017, when the internal audit team for the church highlighted the 13-f filings as a significant red flag area of regulatory compliance risk, but nobody told us anything about it.
ReplyDeleteJames, with all due respect, as reputable sources note, there was a gag order in place legally preventing the Church from publicly commenting on all of this until the matter was resolved. If the Church had violated that gag order, issues by due process of law, that would have made the situation worse. The Church's only course of action was to let this play out with the investigation and through the judicial system. The gag order probably wasn't necessary, as the Church routinely practices confidentiality over certain matters, but the courts made it illegal for the Church to speak out on this until the matter was resolved and the gag order removed. I'd caution us to ascertain the facts before suggesting what the Church should or should not have done about this or any other situation when we may not have all the facts at hand. No offense intended, and I hope none is taken.
DeleteTulsa would be a good candidate for a temple considering how small OKC's temple is. A Tulsa Temple would serve three stakes. Joplin, MO would be served by the Bentonville Temple.
ReplyDeleteOn the shift from Elder Holland to President Oaks dedicating Richmond Virginia Temple. Do we know that Elder Holland will not be there? It is possible that things were worked out to add President Oaks, and generally thry have the most senior apostle president do the dedication. So that might what is going on. I am really not sure.
ReplyDeleteJPL, my understanding is that Elder Holland may be the apostolic companion to President Oaks for Richmond. The Church is probably also saving Elder Holland for the Red Cliffs Utah Temple dedication and to participate in the St. George Utah Temple rededication.
Delete@John Pack Lambert & James Stokes:
DeleteA similar thing occurred with the Provo City Center Temple: both Elders Holland and Oaks attended (due to their ties to BYU), but Elder Oaks dedicated, due to being the Senior Apostle.
While missions are almost all jrpt within area boundaries, and missions also almost always follow stake boundaries (I think at one point the Santa Ana California Spanish speaking stake was split between Long Beach and Anaheim missions, in an odd way that ended up with different mission boundaries for Spanish-speaking and English-speaking missionaries. This fact does not mean new stakes have to be formed following existing mission boundaries or new missions will follow existing area boundaries. You could also adjust stake boundaries to form a mission, in theory, but ai do not know of examples.
ReplyDeleteThe Dayton North Stake partly took from the Toledo Stake. So some areas were transferred from the Detroit Mission to the Cincinatti Mission.
The Farmington Hills Michigan stake was formed from 4 stakes, but all were in the Detroit Mission. The Holland Stake organization resulted in 3 existing stakes had boundaries adjusted, but they were all in 1 mission as well.
I promise this will be my last comment for a while. When the Farmington New Mexico Mission was formed a sizeable by area chunk of Utah was moved from the Utah to the North America Southwest Area.
ReplyDeleteAt some point Mesquite Stake was moved from the Las Vegas (or maybe Las Vegas West) to the St. George Mission, shifting to the Utah Area. The Yuma and Blyth stakes were at one point moved from San Diego to Phoenix missions and from the North America West to North America Southeast Area.
So creating a mission by shifting existing Area boundaries is doable.
I was happy to see the announcement that groundbreaking has been scheduled for Port Moresby- it's been just over 2 1/2 years since the location and rendering were released. Also glad to see that Port Vila groundbreaking has been re-scheduled, I was wondering how long they would have to wait for that.
ReplyDeleteJust for the reference of all here, I am passing along the Newsroom and Church News reports on today's updates:
ReplyDeletehttps://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/news-for-temples-in-five-nations
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2023/3/27/23644421/bangkok-thailand-temple-lds-open-house-dedication-dates
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2023/3/27/23654586/temple-groundbreakings-belo-horizonte-brazil-port-moresby-papua-new-guinea-port-villa-vanuatu
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2023/3/27/23583928/cody-wyoming-temple-exterior-rendering
My analysis on today's updates can be found here:
https://stokessoundsoff.blogspot.com/2023/03/breaking-temple-news-latest-temple.html
My thanks once again to you all.
Frederick,They Could Make the okc temple larger just like they are doing with the Alaska Temple. I know alot people are moving from the mountains to Arkansas, i know of a family this summer is moving from Utah to Arkansas. Also my old ward in illnois near nauvoo was full of people from Utah ,Idaho and the west
ReplyDelete@ Anyone interested about James's recent comment, "Agreed about the audit report. It would have been more appropriate for there to have been a statement about critical matters regarding internal controls in 2014 or 2017, when the internal audit team for the church highlighted the 13-f filings as a significant red flag area of regulatory compliance risk, but nobody told us anything about it."
ReplyDeleteWhat makes you say that? I just looked at the 2014 audit report (link below) and note that the church doesn't report on internal controls at all. You may know that only certain companies are mandated by the Sarbanes Oxley Act to report on internal controls. Further, the issue in question, without more info, it's difficult to guess whether the filing was due to a lapse in internal control, or whether if there was a lapse in internal control, whether it rose to the level of a critical matter. Further, I note from the audit report that it only reports on three items, namely "contributions received, expenditures made, and safeguarding of Church assets." From my perspective, not filing the 13-f isn't within the scope of any of these. Lastly, the report states "in all material respects." I don't have the Church's financial statement, but given the Church's vast resources, it's not going out on a limb to say that it is very unlikely the 13-f filing issue is material.
I will say however, that given my limited knowledge of the specifics, it could have been reasonable to expect such an issue be disclosed in the "notes to the financial statements" and very likely to be disclosed by the audit team's "Management Communication." Given that the Church doesn't take on debt, doesn't have shareholders, and has separate investment and real estate entities, it's very very likely that only a few people see or use the Church's financial statements.
I've alluded to this in the past, but as much as we want to conclude about things or have a view about certain things, things are often not as straightforward as they appear with the limited info we have. It's really hard to make judgements about things without 1) all the key details, and 2) adequate understanding of the topic itself.
My view is based on my experience - I've been a Certified Public Accountant since 2010, started my career as a financial statement auditor, then prepared financial statements for an investment company, then became a Certified Internal Auditor and was an internal auditor for a short while, then moved onto financial analysis & management reporting for a while, and have worked in the real estate investing space.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2015/05/saturday-afternoon-session/church-auditing-department-report-2014?lang=eng
Those hoping for years that the Carson City Nevada Stake would split will be disappointed with this news. Four wards were closed last Sunday, from 11 wards down to 7 wards.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteFellow CPA here! Cool. I realized when reading your post that I accidentally referred to internal controls. I meant internal audit. My apologies.
I'm opining that the church, which isn't obligated to provide an audit report on ANYTHING (including internal controls) should have opined on a significant risk, which certainly falls under safeguarding church assets. When the church is doing something that is worth auditing and raising a flag about, in two separate audits, then it seems to be worthy of letting the public know. Or else, you know, the entire charade of getting up and making this statement seems rather worthless and uninformative.
I'm quoting the SEC order directly: "The Church and Ensign Peak continued to take the same approach to filing Forms 13F through the Clone LLCs despite two Church Audit Department (“CAD”) internal audits of Ensign Peak – one in 2014 and one in 2017—that reviewed the LLC Structure. In discussions with Ensign Peak’s senior management, although CAD did not recommend specific changes to the LLC Structure, CAD highlighted the risk that the SEC might disagree with the approach."
And I presume the internal audit team could have further made a statement about changes to the LLC structure in 2018, after MormonLeaks was able to trace the 13-f filings:
"After the website reported this information, two Business Managers resigned their
roles, voicing concerns about what they had been asked to do. Rather than changing the LLC
Structure, two new Business Managers were assigned to replace the two who resigned."
I happen to have a colleague currently at the SEC, who says that they were not happy - at all - with the Church's vague statement following the SEC order. And the IRS still has an open investigation that will eventually likely result in fines as well. These are all risks under the subject of an audit, so why are we not getting reports that indicate concern from the audit department of the church?
those are just haters of the church and sound like the sec and irs just dont like the lds church or any christians
ReplyDeleteThere have been some significant changes to areas under President Nelson. The US areas went from being run by a member of the presidency of the 60 to being run by area presidencies.
ReplyDeleteThis was one of the policy changes under President Nelson that made the Church more uniform worldwide. Other are the new Church magazines, the changes to the youth program and the in process new hymnbook.
In the case of the Mexico and Brazil areas, those both were cases of being based in the same city.
The trend in the late President Hinckley and early President Monson area was fewer areas, but I believe more functions were shifted to the area level instead of being unified Church wide.
I could see a Nigeria Area, that like Brazil, Mexico and the Philippines would just be that country.
I could also see a Canada area.
I think we will see at least one less area in the US, probably 2 if a Canada area is formed. Under President Nelson the number of areas in the US has gone from 10 to 6. It peak at 11.
The other area I could see being split is the Asia Area. I am not sure though if this would be an actual new area, or more a shif of stiff from the Asia Area to the Asia North Area. We have already seen Mongolia shifted.
The main areas changes have only been for six 3-man area presidencies to oversee the six North American Areas and the creation of the Africa Central Area. What I am suggesting is an overhaul on the organization of all areas, which h is something that has never been done. In a time where revolutionary measures have restructured the Elders' Quorum, Young men quorums and young women classes, and with Church reduced to 2- hour blocks, the changes to area makeup and structure are minimal by comparison.
DeleteAnd in my opinion, if Canada splits off from the US administratively, there would need to be at least four new areas to cover the greater Canada region. And if US areas were to be divided by state, those boundaries would be easier to understand and account for data-wise, which is why I like anonymous'as proposal above.
I know Matt has said that Nigeria is likely to split off from the Africa West Area, and that another areas in Asia is possible at some point, but I am wondering if there is a better way to overhaul and reorganize most or all Church areas worldwide. Could that happen? Maybe
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteContrary to what was reported, the former headquarters of the area in Brazil were not located in the same city. The Brasil South Area was managed from São Paulo and the Brasil North Area was managed from Recife, Pernambuco.
ReplyDeleteBy far the most interesting innovation in this general conference will be the international additions to the Tabernacle choitlr for conference. This will be very interesting to see.
ReplyDeleteThe Newsroom did a profile on those who will join the Choir this weekend:
Deletehttps://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/tabernacle-choir-embraces-new-mission-welcomes-international-singers
@ James (the CPA):
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed reading your response. I don't know enough about the particulars to comment on the overall situation, but will say this - I'd be interested to know the audit scope and whether it differed from the public audit report. Also, I think seeing the financial statements and accompanying notes would give me some context to better understand the audit opinion (and the audit scope and materiality, to some extent).
@ James (the CPA) and anyone interested:
I doubt there was foul play at the highest levels of the Church, and even if there was, it wouldn't make me doubt Jesus Christ or His Church's mission, since I know He is in charge and isn't a fallen person like we are.
I think my overall sentiment is that people in general are often quick to judgement - without regard for, or oblivious to, the benefit of forming opinions by assessing quality evidence objectively, with relevant competence and due care. I imagine this sounds weird to most people, but that's how I find myself looking at things since being an auditor. This mentality, along with my understanding of risk assessment and a basic awareness of logical fallacies, has served me well in sorting through lots of deception out there. Understanding Moroni chapter 7 has been helpful too - about how to judge and the importance of judging between good and evil but NOT judging people. Hopefully I'm not too far off!? lol.
@Anonymous, accountants unite! ;) This is our "mormon moment!" ;)
ReplyDeleteThe SEC order is written under joint approval by the church and the SEC. It's a negotiated document (they always are - it's essentially a contract that both parties agree to, establishing that they agree about the facts described therein).
So when you say, "I doubt there was foul play at the highest levels of the Church," you are directly contradicting the SEC's letter that the Church agreed to in its settlement. The injunction itself states that the First Presidency and Presiding Bishopric were intimately involved from day one and every step after that.
Not that it should affect your testimony (never said it should, nor would I - that's a totally personal decision!). Only that the facts presented are that the Church and SEC both agreed that the FP and PB were intimately involved and approved of a structure with the understanding that it had high regulatory risk and with the intent of hiding the size of the fund, and that the reporting scheme grew bigger over time, forcing employees to lie in the process. That's the gist.
The order is a pretty short read for anyone interested, but I'm actually pretty shocked at how many people (not saying you are one) who have read the church's response but not the actual SEC order that goes into a lot of detail about what happened. And then I've read (here and elsewhere, not from you, but from others) a lot of misinformation about what the issue actually was, which really tells me they haven't read what happened from the original source:
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2023/34-96951.pdf
Anyway, sorry for getting involved in this again. I know this is about church growth on this site, but there has been plenty of discussion about this on this site and lots of misinformation. It actually makes things worse when we handwave this stuff as if it's no big deal without even an understanding of what "it" is. Just read the SEC order, people! Haha
Regarding your statement that "the First Presidency and Presiding Bishopric were intimately involved from day one", I'm sure that wasn't meant to be malicious, but it still came across as though you were implying that those leaders made a deliberate attempt to do something wrong and, while continuing to do something wrong, also actively attempted to cover it up. And had that been the case here, the penalty would be steeper.
DeleteI doubt the SEC order says that there was intent to break the law and be deceptive about it, because once the gag order was removed, the Church statement was released, and that statement clarifies the situation and the context of the order. A proper understanding of both is wise here. Just reading one or the other may misconstrue the situation. There was no intent on the part of the Church or its' leaders to do anything underhanded or illegal, and the Church took action to correct this error once they knew about it. They also chose to comment publicly on the issue once the gag order was revoked. Just wanted to make that absolutely clear.
Question : @Daniel or others who may know. Was the Butanta Ward of the Sao Paulo Brazil Raposo Tavares Stake recently merged/consolidated/combined with the neighboring Jardim Bonfiglioli Ward of the same stake? The Butanta area is around the Univerdidade de Sao Paulo campus. I'm having trouble finding the Butanta Ward on the new Meetinghouse locator map.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/meetinghouses/@-23.563880,-46.736850,15s&id=ward:178330
Cris, as a hillbilly from the countryside of the SP state, I can't say right away, but I'll ask friends in the capital and come back to let you know. I'll do my best.
DeleteHi Chris,
DeleteButantã Ward was consolidated with the Rio Pequeno Ward (both divided the same chapel).
The international singers in the Tabernacle Choir at general conference will consist of 2 Mexicans, 3 Brazilians, 1 Filipino, 1 Ghanaian, 1 Malaysian and 1 person from Taiwan. I think I got that right.
ReplyDeleteMany of then work as music teachers.
I also now have to say I find the set up on this blog where multiple commentators use the exact same name while commenting throughly confusing.
I am wondering if people want to do last minute predictions. I think it might be tomorrow we will learn the new area seventies.
I am sticking with a least 1 new temple for Msnilla, at least 2 more for Lima, Florianopolis, Brazil, a second Venezuela Temple, Cancun, Mexico, Kingston, Jamaica, Kampala, Uganda, Yomosoukro, Ivory Coast, Abuja, Nigeria, Port Harcourt, Nigeria, Glasgow, Scotland, Hamburg, Germany, Charlotte, North Carolina, Cincinatti, Ohio, Appleton, Wisconsin, Des Monies, Iowa, Manchester, New Hampshire, Lehi, Utah and San Jose, California.
I meant Manilla, sorry for the typo. I could see both metro Manilla and somewhere else in the Philippines. New Delhi India and Maputo, Mozambique are outlier possibilities. Sorocana, Brazil, Otavalo, Ecuador, Medallion, Colombia, a 2nd temple for Bogota, a 2nd temple for El Sakvador, Cabcun, Chihuahua and Piza de Rica Mexico, and multiple sires in Arizona are also possibilities. We shall see what will occur.
ReplyDeleteCreating More Church Areas
ReplyDeleteI noticed when we had Stake Conference last month and at Ward Conference this month, that we now sustain the Area Presidencies in the general sustaining. I do not remember doing that until this year.
That being said, I could see the creation of more areas around the world and even in North America. I do think there could be a division of the NASW Area. Nevada and AZ in one area. New Mexico, TX and OK in the other half. Idaho could also have its own area. I believe I saw it on here earlier that both Arizona and Idaho have just over 400k members.
I think there could be a split of the Mexico and the Brazil areas. I think there could be two more additional areas created in South America. Two more in Africa. I'm not sure about Asia or the Pacific.
I do not see Canada being one Area. To vast east to west with too many time zones to manage easily. I could see a Canada West Area and a Canada East Area. These areas would cover large geographical areas, but not include very many members (especially the Canada East Area).
I could also easily see the jump from six to nine areas in North America; NW, North, NE, West, Central, East, SW, South and SE.
I also remember when Utah was divided into 3 Areas.
I'm excited to see the international members perform in the choir. I'm excited for whatever else gets announced. I saw that the World Report was already available to watch on the church's website.
Rich
Manaus have 9 stakes and 1 district in Itacoatiara. They already have a mission over there, so it would be #2.
ReplyDeleteAmazonas State Stakes: Manaus Stake, Manaus Cidade Nova Stake, Manaus Guarany Stake, Manaus Mindu Stake, Manaus Ponta Negra Stake, Manaus Rio Amazonas Stake, Manaus Rio Negro Stake, Manaus Samauma Stake, and Manaus Solimoes Stake and Itacoatiara Brazil District
There was just an article on the German newsroom about the "congregation" in Siegen, which just celebrated its 50th anniversary but was officially discontinued a couple of years ago. Siegen is a university city but it is quite remote and has had issues holding on to people, including members. The group that still operates is assigned to Hamm (which is a nearly two hours away by train or car) in the Dortmund Stake, although the city itself is closer to Wetzlar. There are around 80 members of the group, which is quite a bit and may indicate that the branch may get reinstated eventually.
ReplyDeleteI served in Siegen just a few years ago. At the time there were about 17 active members, 4 of which were in their 20s and 30s, and only one family with children. The Branch President at the time was from Hagen and assigned by the Stake Presidency. By the time I left the area, there had been 2 convert baptisms in the last 5-8 years. I think the chances of the group being reinstated as a Branch in the near future is slim, despite the area's isolation from other congregations.
DeleteThe new area seventies have been announced. There is one from Nairobi, Kenya who works for the Church as "area planner". I have to admit I have no idea what that job might entail. There are 2 from South Africa, both based on their last name are almost certainly of African descent, one a CES employee over seminaries and institutes the other a lawyer. There is an area seventy from Sierra Leone, he may be the first from that country, he is director of self reliance services.
ReplyDeleteAlso 2 from Nigeria, one from Lubumbashi, DR Congo and 1 from Kumasi, Ghana.
Asia sees area seventies called from Cambodia, Japan and India. The one from Cambodia may be the first from that country. There was an area seventy from India before, but he may be serving as a mission president now, so the one from India may be the only current one from India.
In Europe there was an area sevnety called from Finland, although he is currently president of the Bulgaria/Central Eurasia Mission, and one called from Prague (he is stake president in Czechia).
There were 2 called from the Dominican Republic, 3 from Brazil, 1 from Costa Rica, 1 from El Salvador and several from Mexico. There have per past reports been 2 others at least called from Coast Rica, Elder Fallabella and Elder Cordon, both who were later general authorities, but they were Guatemalans in Costa Rica. There has not yet been a Dominican Republic or Salvadorian general authority, and not a Costa Rican one by most measures.
There is Nefi Tujillo from Ecuador, I like the name. He is a counselor in the mission presidency in Quito. He works for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as an ICS support specialist. I am not clear what that means.
The first one I come to on the list from the US is John Amos. He is from Florida but serving as mission president in Baton Rouge. He is Africna-American, as is his wife. He joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints while attending Southern University, and worked in the navy and then as a nuclear power engineer. Here is a very insteresting article on them https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/faith-matters-mormon-couple-on-a-mission-to-share-gospel/article_ea6bf740-f0a8-11ea-83d2-87c0fe3b5e4c.html#:~:text=John%20Amos%20is%20president%20of,Christ%20of%20Latter%2Dday%20Saints. Although I have to say the claim to be able to tell what percentage of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are black, especially if we are talking on a worldwide scale, is not well based on real facts. Also why exactly use a 2 year old article to get current facts, it is not a good approach in my view. Watch John Amos, we will see more of him I think.
That last article I posted is hard to parse unless you are a Baton Rouge insider.
ReplyDeleteSouthern University is an HBCU (historically black colleges and universites) in Baton Rouge.
So for the last almost 3 years the mission leaders of the Lousiana Baton Rouge Mission, which covers almost all of Mississippi and Louisiana have been a black couple who graduated from an SBCU in Baton Rouge.
This is a huge development. Now John Amos will be an area seventy. There will be at least 2 African-American area seventies in the North America Southeast Area, I am not sure any other areas in the US have more than one.
This actually makes me half hope they combine the North America Southeast and North America Northeast Areas. Combine the areas, and give us an area presidency that includes Peter M. Johnson and Vai Sikehema, and give us an area office somewhere in the area and the days of Utah domination will be over.
OK, that is probably too radical an idea, and there are good structural reasons why it is unlikely to all happen, at least the area office somewhere east of the Mississippi. Still with various trends, I think a North America East Area makes sense. I am not sure I think pairing it with an end to the North America Southwest Area, and going to just Utah, North America West, North Amerca Central and North America East Areas is called for, or if I think that North America Southwest can stay on as the only uncombined in the last decade area. We shall see.
If we went to just 4 areas, I would say move Illinois, Missouri and maybe Wisconsin to the East Area, move Texas and Oklahoma to the Central Area along with most of New Mexico. Move the Farmington New Mexico Mission, and maybe some other parts of Northern Arizona to the Utah area, and then move the rest of Arizona and Nevada to the North America West Area. These changes could also be done while making a Canada area.
I know these are pretty radical changes and I am not even sure if all of them would be good, but it is a random idea I am throwing out.
Two more interesting cases in the newly called. Brent Ward who is a Univeristy of Michigan professor, was called as an area seventy. When I was a student at Eastern Michigan University President Ward was in the stake presidency. The stake president at the time, Richard DeVries, is also an area seventy. So I have personally interacted with President Ward.
ReplyDeleteAnother called member of the Seventy is Hutch Fale. He is from Tonga, graduated from BYU-Hawai'i, then from the Romney MPA program and the J. Reuben Clark Law school at BYU, and has been a lawyer for many years. He formed a law firm with two others back in 2007 called the Pacific Law Group, and is also an adjunct professor in the Law School and Business School at BYU.
Brother Fale is currently president of the Provo Utah Wasatch (tongan speaking) stake. He is also besides English and Tongan fluent in Niuean.
James:
ReplyDelete"Regarding your statement that "the First Presidency and Presiding Bishopric were intimately involved from day one", I'm sure that wasn't meant to be malicious, but it still came across as though you were implying that those leaders made a deliberate attempt to do something wrong and, while continuing to do something wrong, also actively attempted to cover it up."
Correct - my comment was only descriptive. I ascribe no intent, although the SEC directly ascribes intent to the leaders, and the intent behind its actions was to hide the size of the fund from members and the public. So when you say, "made a deliberate attempt to do something wrong and, while continuing to do something wrong, also actively attempted to cover it up."...well, the act itself was a deliberate attempt to cover something up (the size of the fund). And doing so required church employees to lie. So if you find anything wrong with attempting to hide the size of the fund through misreporting, then that's a perfectly rational interpretation. If you don't find an attempt to hide the size of the fund wrong, then that's also an interpretation.
Did they intend to break the law in the process like they did? Likely not. Generally, doing what is legal is probably the lowest bar for "choosing the right" I can think of. The vast majority of unethical behavior is still legal, so I wouldn't worry too much about intent to break the law or the law's interpretation of whether what the church did was 'wrong.' My bar for ethical behavior is a little higher than that.
James, JPL's comment below doesnt reflect my feelings on your perspective of the issue. If the fine in the eyes of both the SEC and the Church was considered a fair resolution and the matter is settled according to the legal system, I doubt that the Lord sees the resolution as a problem, and no further action is needed. Clearly it was not a situation where the Lord has moved any of the involved leaders from their place .With that in mind, I suggest we consider the discussion of this matter here honorably closed. I'm happy we could disagree without becoming disagreeable and I look forward to any further comments from you in the future on other matters discussed here. Thanks for exchanging perspectives with me. I appreciate it.
DeleteWhat the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints did with their stock was fully and completely ethical. Not complying with Archana and complex regulations is not an issue of ethics.
ReplyDeleteI am sick and tired of the false and malicious statements being thrown out against people. This is not the appropriate place for such rude and malicious comments.
This is a long comment, so it will be split in half.
ReplyDelete1/2:
The question of how areas alignments are decided is interesting. I have no special insider knowledge, so as usual this is a bit of an exercise in LDS Kremlinology, that said, here are my thoughts. First, the purpose of areas. From what I understand, areas 1) help to coordinate actions and policies within their boundaries where there is a benefit from an approach more tailored to the unique aspects of different parts of the world (I think the church actually should do a lot more of this, and a lot less that is centralized from Salt Lake, but that is a topic for another day); 2) train and mentor stake presidencies, mission presidencies, and to some extent temple presidencies (and maybe Stake Patriarchs?); 3) Assist in presiding over and performing duties that involve keys not held at more local levels (while temple groundbreakings actually involve keys as far as I know, it obviously is something not within the purview of the Stake President, for example). 3) Teach and preach to those within the area.
Given the above, it seems that the major factors when determining areas are 1) how many stakes'/districts' leadership can be feasibly provided mentoring, training, etc. at a given level of intensity (places where the church is relatively new may require more mentoring to help leaders who may themselves be relatively new members than places with a large and experienced pool of local leaders), 2)number of issues and tasks that require action or decision-making above the local level (for instance, the Middle East Africa North area has few stakes and districts, but because of sensitivities in church operations there requires a lot of hands-on oversight from church headquarters), and 3) perhaps to some extent cultural commonalities.
2/2:
ReplyDeleteGiven those factors, it seems to me a major binding constraint is or ought to be the number of stakes, as that impacts the frequency with which an area presidency can meet with stake presidents one-on-one (district presidents are presided over by mission presidents, so the number of districts is less of a factor *in that regard*). For most areas, this means travel. Given 3 members on an area presidency, with the goal of meeting each stake president once every three years (and here I am just imagining what might be a goal, no idea if this really is or not), how many stakes they can feasibly do this for will vary by how geographically large the area is and whether the stakes are clustered or not (driving up and down the Wasatch Front is a lot easier than flying from Auckland to points all over the Pacific).
With all of that in mind, some changes that would make sense to me are splitting the Utah area so that Weber/Davis/Salt Lake/Utah counties are one area, and the rest of Utah/southwest Wyoming is another (the Wasatch area would have ~3/4 of the stakes, so ~430 compared the remainder at ~150, but travel times are short compared to traversing rural areas, so I think it would work out well). The fact that they had to split the area into 3 for training for stake, mission, and temple presidencies this spring I think is a pretty good sign the area needs to be split. Another change I think would be good would be to split the N. America West area in half, with AK, YT, BC, WA, OR, and the Idaho panhandle as one area, and CA, HI, and NV as another -- each of those areas would have 150-200 stakes, and by removing NV the remainder of the current N. America SW area would have ~200. Idaho (except the panhandle) could be its own area, which would take approximately half of the stakes in the NA central area. The Brazil area also has enough stakes and large distances, such that it would seem to benefit from being two areas -- perhaps one area incorporating Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina, Parana, Sao Paulo, and Mato Grosso do Sul, with another area covering the rest of the country. The S. America NW area also could be halved, with one area including Peru and Bolivia and the other Ecuador, Colombia, and Venezuela.
On the other hand, I am a little surprised the Europe North and Europe Central areas are separate -- they seem like they could be one area, although until a year ago when European area boundaries were changed they mostly were in the old Europe West area, so I guess there is a reason for that. The Caribbean area also seems small enough it perhaps could be incorporated into the Central America area.
--Felix
I compared the format of the 2022 Statistical Report (released today) to the 2021 report. I note that the “Church-Service Missionaries” line for 2021 was broken out between “Senior” and “Young” for 2022.
ReplyDeleteI assume the “Full-Time Teaching Missionaries“ line for 2021 and 2022 includes senior and young missionaries, but I’d welcome evidence to the contrary, if available. Looks like a YOY increase of full-time teaching missionaries of 8k and decrease of total service missionaries of 6.8k. I’d welcome evidence as to what drove the change, if available.
While speculation on these two items may interest others, I’m really only interested in getting to the crux of the matter on these particular items.
I was just reading a newsroom article about over 100 BYU pathway students graduating in Abuja. There are 2700 BYU Pathway Internationsl students in Nigeria. The program has full recognition from the government educational agency.
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