Cam someone explain what is meant by "locations recently closed by the Church" in the newsletter? I see Geneva, Illinois on that list, but it isn't as if the Church "closed" in Gdneva, as it implies. The Geneva Ward was in suburban Chicago which covered Geneva and some adjacent cities. All that happened was the Geneva Ward was discontinued and combined with the St. Charles Ward. The Church still exists in Geneva. In fact, the meetinghouse that housed both wards is still in Geneva, but now only houses the St. Charles Ward instead of both the Geneva Ward and the St. Charles Ward. I think saying the Church closed in Geneva is semantics, and not really true.
The determination is made with whether the Church has its own ward or branch for a particular city or town - even if it is in very close proximity to another. Yes, Geneva and St. Charles are very close, and the meetinghouse is technically in Geneva although the bulk of the city is on the other side of the Fox River. Given the name of the retained unit is St. Charles and the meetinghouse is closer to St. Charles than most of Geneva, I believed this met the criteria I use for determine whether or not a city has an official ward or branch.
Yes the Gosford stake was discontinued on Sunday the 5th June. 4 stakes were condensed into 3. A couple branches from the Newcastle stake went north into the Coffs Harbour district. Harbour stake is now the North Sydney stake. Its an interesting development as the Gosford stake was only formed about 4 years ago.
Yes the Gosford stake was discontinued on Sunday the 5th June. 4 stakes were condensed into 3. A couple branches from the Newcastle stake went north into the Coffs Harbour district. Harbour stake is now the North Sydney stake. Its an interesting development as the Gosford stake was only formed about 4 years ago.
Matt, this is clearly a spam comment not in keeping with the guidelines you reiterated, so I hope you'll remove it (and this housekeeping comment) ASAP. Thanks.
I'm not the expert, but based on classic maps the new Antalya branch covers most of southern Turkey. It's about 1,200 miles across by road. The branch is part of the Bulgaria/Central Eurasian Mission. There are no stakes or districts in that mission.
First missionaries arrived in Turkey in the 1850's. The Book of Mormon was translated into Turkish in 1906. The Church became legally recognized by the government in October 2011 and in February 2012 the church held its first church services and full-time missionaries from the Bulgaria Sofia Mission were assigned to Istanbul to begin proselyting.
Antalya is very popular with European tourists. Traditionally, this is an industry attracting many immigrant workers from places like the Philippines. I wonder if those workers constitute a large proportion of members in that group (assuming that is the status).
My understanding from a senior missionary couple who served in Turkey, that the Church had to start from scratch about 10 years ago. So these recently opened branches are a result from those efforts.
With the recent realignment of the 2 Puebla Mexico Nealtican stakes. The "Puebla Mexico Nealtican Stake - 520187" was renamed the "Nealtican Mexico Stake - 520187". Also the "Puebla Mexico Nealtican North Stake - 1850776" has been renamed the "Nealtican Mexico North Stake - 1850776".
So i have read through the comments of the last month's worth of posts and it seems to be flying under the radar a little. Jim Anderson posted the video of the Lindon groundbreaking where Elder Pearson mentioned that there would be 500 temples announced, under constructed, and operating by 2030 if 25 a year are announced. I find this interesting because he was on the church news podcast the week before the groundbreaking and he mentioned Pres Nelson's vision of the world is to have 10 times the amount of temples than what we have. 10 times! So if we have 156 operating temples, that would result in 1500 temples. So folks the predictions are fun but I think a moot point now. 1500 temples would be almost 1 temple for every 2 stakes in the church. Of course they won't all be built in the next 10 years but still. Here is his quote from the podcast. (Episode 79) Church News Podcast
Elder Kevin W. Pearson: Soon to be 28. When all the temples that are announced are up and running, we’ll have 28 temples. Just in our lifetime.
Sheri Dew: Think of it.
Elder Kevin W. Pearson: Yeah, it’s just amazing, and guess what? You can bet your lunch money tomorrow that President Nelson is going to announce a substantial list of temples. I don’t know that, but I’ll be shell shocked if it doesn’t happen.
So we’ve got a Prophet who, when he became President of the Church, looked around and said, “I think we’ve got about 156 operating temples.” In the vision he sees of the world, there are 10 times that many operating temples in the world, and they are everywhere. And truly the restored gospel of Jesus Christ fills the earth. We’ll need all those temples.
People look at the Church and say, “Well, maybe you’re not growing as much as it looked like the Church was in the 1980s.” Well, maybe, maybe not. But, if you understand our doctrine: OK, the gathering on the other side of the veil has been enormous. Every mission president knows how many people are on date for baptism. I would suggest to people that there are hundreds of millions, maybe billions of people that are on date for baptism on the other side of the veil, and that’s why we’re going to need 10 times as many temples. And if you could just see the vision that President Nelson has for this work, you’d realize the Church is growing at a breathtaking, phenomenal rate when you combine both sides of the veil."
Thanks for quoting that Elder Pearson/Sheri Dew conversation. It helped put things in perspective again for me.
I'll admit that part of me had been trying to catch the vision of if some of the new temples would be fully necessary in certain areas with smaller membership or less stakes.
And at times when I'm disheartened about people leaving the Church or when some stakes close in far off regions of the world, or that the convert numbers not being as high in certain places (for now) as they once were...
I remind myself that the numbers don't always tell the full story, that there are people waiting and being prepared (like that group of "lost" Saints in the DRC, Africa that Matt so recently brought to our attention) and that if I can't see immediate results on this side of the veil, I can always sit down, do some Family History, submit some family names to the temple, and see more immediate results on the other side of the veil.
(This is also my shameless plug for Family History work, as I was recently called to be a Ward FH Consultant.) ;)
And it is interesting to me how, as I do that work on the computer, real "live" conversion (as opposed to "for the dead" conversion) and reactivation and gospel sharing opportunities become available in my life.
I'm currently helping to keep a formerly less-active, part-member man in my ward active, by getting to know him, becoming his friend (and introducing him to genealogy). ;)
He surprised me this last week by giving me a different translation of the Bible than I'm used to (as a gift), because we'd started to become friends and found we had things in common.
I'm also inviting the missionaries to attend the local sports group I go to once a week, to get to know some more of the community members I know and have started making friends with (plus, it's nice to have more Priesthood Brethren there - I've noticed the Spirit is different while we play - more fun, less contentious or competitive.)
I don't know what exact results will yield, or when this "seed-planting" will bear fruit, but I'm interested to see where it goes, and I feel it's at least changing me (and my small corner of the Restored Church of Jesus Christ) for the better.
The Opinion, not long after President Nelson became the prophet, I heard multiple reports from Church leaders that addressed President Nelson's goal by saying: "Take the current number and add a zero." The statement was not specific as to whether "add[ing] a zero" applied to the total number of operating temples (which now stands at 172 and will be 173 in a couple of weeks) or the total number of all temples (currently standing at 282). I have shared that statement several times on my blog and here on various threads of this blog, terming it as "a ten-fold increase".
And an additional statement by Elder Pearson at the groundbreaking for the Lindon Temple further indicated that President Nelson is wanting the Church to have a minimum total of 500 temples in any phase by the 200th anniversary of the Church's reestablishment (April 6, 2030). Since the Church is currently on track to have 200 temples dedicated by early-to-mid 2024, and since temple construction has accelerated recently and is on track to continue to do so, my personal prediction is that the Church will have at least 300 temples dedicated by the same anniversary. That would require the dedications of roughly 16-17 temples per year between now and then, which I think could be easily accomplished. Starting later this year, the Church appears to be on track to dedicate 2-3 temples per month every month for the foreseeable future.
And with the latest and potential future advancements that have helped to speed up temple construction, I wouldn't be shocked if 500 temples in any phase by Saturday, April 6, 2030, turns out to be an underestimate. I have previously mentioned that in my state conference in December, Elder Kevin S. Hamilton indicated the Church had around 300 temples in various stages of planning, approval, construction, or operation. Since there were only 265 at that time, I surmised that 35 more would be announced this year. With 17 announced in April, I anticipate a minimum of 18 to be announced in October. And if the Church announces around 35 temples almost every year, that will impact the timing whereby we will see 500 total temples. Crazy and yet awesome to think about.
Oaxaca México Brenamiel Stake (2199890) Active Date: 5 Jun 2022 Antequera Ward (137634) Barrio Antequera Etla Ward (193216) Barrio Etla La Joya Ward (267767) Barrio La Joya Los Angeles Ward (459429) Barrio Los Angeles Valle de Etla Ward (2067153) Barrio Valle de Etla Yagul Ward (188611) Barrio Yagul
No, that is not correct about the Church being first established in Turkey in 2012. The Church has been in Turkey for decades, and there have been Turkish members in Turkey for decades. However, official proselytism began in 2012. Here's the member activity section of the Turkey article for Reaching the Nations that I updated in 2020:
Very few Turks have joined the Church in Turkey. The first Turk to join the Church in Ankara was in 2006. In early 2009, there were ten active members in the Ankara Branch. There were twenty-two people who attended the first meeting of the Istanbul Branch in its new meetinghouse in February 2012, and there were ten active youth in the branch in November 2012.[14] In 2012, 40-45 members attended a devotional with international Church leaders in Istanbul.[15] Elder Jeffrey R. Holland met with 150 Latter-day Saints in Istanbul in late 2015.[16] Dozens of new converts joined the Church in branches in Istanbul, Ankara, and Izmir during the late 2010s. Returned missionaries who served in Turkey during the mid- to late 2010s noted that most branches had between 10-30 active members. Convert retention rates one year after baptisms were estimated at 60% or greater for most years in the late 2010s. However, the entire Central Eurasian Mission reported fewer than 100 convert baptisms a year during this time. Missionaries operate through passive finding approaches out of respect for local culture. National active membership is likely around 150, or 25-30% of total membership.
My "starting from stratch" comment did not mean there were not members in Turkey, but that the church had to reevaluate its procedures in order to move forward with opening or reopening branches in Turkey.
Here's a quote from Elder Pearson, President of the Utah Area, in April 2022 with some excellent statistical information about the Church in Utah and how important it is for the Church's worldwide operations: https://www.thechurchnews.com/podcast/2022-04-19/episode-79-elder-kevin-w-pearson-on-the-positive-influence-utah-has-on-the-global-church-featuring-sheri-dew-as-guest-host-251200
"Well, I think that’s true on several levels. On just one level it’s roughly 13% of the membership of the Church, but nearly 20% of the stakes, which ought to suggest something about faithfulness. We send out about 30% of the young full-time missionaries; we send out over 52% of the senior couples. So, just in terms of what we export, in terms of sheer volume of resources to help from a leadership perspective. Probably, I don’t know, about 30% of the general leadership of the Church comes from this area. About, almost an equivalent, maybe 25%-27% of all the mission presidents and temple presidents. So it is an extremely important exporter or creator of leadership, talent and ability in the Church."
Not trying to be flippant, but hasn't Utah's importance to the worldwide Church been pretty much always the case? What is different now, if anything?
Also, is anyone else kind of alarmed of how many wards and stake are being closed these days? What used to be a seemingly rare event is happening with shocking regularity, particularly the closure of stakes, which was a practically unheard of event say 30 years ago.
Ohhappydane33 - Yes, we have seen a lot of wards and branches discontinued in 2022 so far. However, it is important to note that this happens in waves every so often. For example, there was a net increase of only 30 congregations for the entire world in 2018, and this was primarily due to the mass consolidation of wards/branches in Mexico after decades of Church leaders sparing them a little longer to see if things could turn around with so many congregations with few active members. Also, the Church reported a net increase of only 124 congregations in 2011, and the reason why this year was such a slow year was because the Church had closed hundreds of YSA/Student congregations in Utah primarily to pave the way for YSA stakes being established.
This year, the unit consolidations have primarily occurred in Japan, Europe, and the United States (especially on the West Coast). I imagine plans for these consolidations have been in the works for years and probably before COVID, and only now have then been executed since things have returned to normal for most areas. Currently, there has been really no net increase in wards/branches for 2022 as we have had fewer new congregations being created than normal.
As for what the latter half of 2022 holds in store, I believe we will continue to see significant consolidations on the West Coast of the United States as well as potentially more in Japan as the southern part of Honshu and southern islands have not had any significant restructuring of congregations/stakes yet. Also, it is just a matter of time before we see a major consolidation of stakes/congregations in Salt Lake City. I am surprised this has not happened yet because there could literally be 10-20 stakes that are consolidated as we have many stakes with only 5-6 wards now in the older areas of the city. This has been a process that has gradually occurred for about 20 years now in these areas.
1) The church has already shown that it is willing to build temples at roughly the "two stakes per temple" level. The announced temple in Norway will probably only have the two Norwegian stakes in it (plus the few other branches in Northern Norway). Even if it does cross the border into Sweden, the Copenhagen, Stockholm and Oslo temples are only covering about 9 stakes or so. (Helsinki is actually in better shape in this regard since it covers the Baltics and part of Russia) 2) I'm honestly curious what the current backlog of those with work to be done is and whether (without a significant ingress into China) how much work theoretically could be done. 3) Note, there will be a large number of people living even as recently as the 18th century for which neither written records not oral tradition will give enough information to do work, even if every person currrently alive joined the Church... 4) That sort of expansion will effect some temples more than others. Washington DC isn't being used nearly as much as it can, even with a Temple District that includes places that will be taken away by either the new Pittsburgh or Richmond temple. I could honestly see it being closed for a few days a week (other than Sunday) after those empty. 5) And unrelated. How easy would it be to boil things down so that the question could be answered: X% of the growth of the Church in the last decade is from Africa?
I believe that nothing in the Church happens by chance, for some reason they plan the steps to follow, the announcement of the temples in so many places has a purpose, the closure or consolidation of units in the world church has many possible, real answers that are not they are said publicly, one reads between the lines. From my experience of what I have seen in Santiago de Chile since 1990 I have seen the strengthening, decay and numbness in the baptized, and I do not say this criticizing, but from what I have lived, after all the service and volunteering that I gave. Of course, glad to see temple announcements in many places, those who want to attend is a great advance, this goes hand in hand with genealogy, changes in the church take time and are slow, the FAMILYSEARCH platform, it is wonderful still requires urgent changes that managers do not want to hear. The Family History Centers hardly open and if they do, one or two hours at the most, that means not being able to advance in the genealogical search as one expects. I thought that with the pandemic the Church would become stronger and better established in my country, the truth is that I am not so sure about it, I long for the moment to re-enter the temple once a year has passed since my baptism.
Matt - your comment makes me wonder if a "Top 10" list post would be interesting to see: Top 10 most likely stakes to divide. Top 10 most likely stakes to consolidate.
Not sure what prediction models you could use to predict a stake consolidation, especially given the geocentric nature of stake closures that happen in clusters, but even identifying general areas (like Japan this year) for the future would be interesting. In other words, in 2023, what countries/areas do you see having heavy consolidations like Mexico had a few years ago or Japan had this year? What about countries/areas where several stakes will be created?
JSA, can you help me with Church unit totals? I had access to the CDOL until early this year, and I showed 3498 stakes, 511 districts, 24,255 wards, and 6,975 branches (31,230 total wards and branches) on Dec. 31,2021. Can you provide the current totals for us so far this year? Thanks very much.
Elder Christopherson recently visited Bolivia and Peru. This was the first time an apostle has visted either country since before Covid, possibly since Elder Soares was in Peru to dedicate the Arequipa Temple.
Two of the cities visited were Iquitos and Chiclayo. I have to wonder if he was studying various factors to possibly recomend one or hopefully both those cities for a temple.
Utah's presence to the Church of Jesus Christ has been crucial since 1847 till now, and presumably always will be. However, there are now major regions across the globe where the LDS faith is robust, like Mexico, Brazil, West Africa, Central Africa. The South Pacific has been highly involved for a long time.
the problem is that the Church overall is no longer growing faster that the population Rate. It is in decline in many if not most parts of the world. Elder Bednar recently commented that many younger generations are not satisfied with religion overall. This could become an ominous situation
Unknown, true but you can't take anything for granted nowadays. One could have easily argued that the Church was robust here in California in say 1990. If you haven't lived in such an area where the Church seems to be dying on the vine, you may not be able to comprehend it. I am 49 years old and the ward that I spent my entire childhood in from the 70s until the 90s was discontinued last Sunday, and the meetinghouse of that ward went from housing three wards to now just one, which would have been unthinkable just 10 years ago. It's rather depressing to know that a large piece of my childhood is now gone.
Some very early planning meetings for the Richmond open house have been reported to have been held according to a Facebook post.
Heard the current three Washington temples reservations are always booked a month out solid, and we still have at least a year until Moses Lake could be ready to ease things east of the Cascades.
"Sydney Australia Harbour Stake - 526614" was renamed the "Sydney Australia North Stake - 526614", with the consolidation of the neighboring "Gosford Australia Stake - 2051222".
Logging in to another computer got me "Unknown", unintentional. The Church of Jesus Christ is mighty strong in multiple parts of the United States. There is attrition in some regions, recently in the Pacific west, and by natural depopulation in some central states. There is a Gen Z or youth weakness and attrition, which is certain.
The worldwide faith will compensate for the lack of U.S., Western, Latin American and others who fall away. Not that it does not smart, a lot, as we all know people who fall away from belief in God. Or simply find the Church too antiquated or politically incorrect. Some find that Joseph Smith is false, the scriptures, the lack of perfect prophets, the male nature of the priesthood. Or, the apparent non-benefit of many parts of the Word of Wisdom or law of chastity.
There are a lot of reasons for people to fall away.
But the people of God will fulfill His will. We focus on the Lord, His Gospel, the good news of the whole program, the Holy Spirit, (which is hard for a lot of people to do). It will work out.
Temple work must continue, as it is doing. Keep it up. Stay faithful, no matter those who fall away. I think the history of the scriptures has the same ups and downs.
JSA, so we see that stakes are up net 8, districts down net 1, wards up 6, branches down 6, resulting in no net gain in wards and branches, as Matt said just yesterday. Thanks for sharing this information.
I've been wondering for a quite a while, how do we reconcile the church's past few decades of stagnant growth with the prophecy of the stone cut out without hands? To me and obviously to a lot of people, that metaphor has always implied spectacular, exponential growth. A stone rolling downhill gets faster as it goes. It doesn't slow down. It doesn't stay at the same speed for a really long time. It certainly doesn't ever go backwards. This just nags at me every time people say it doesn't matter whether the church is growing much or not.
Looking at the Yorba Linda Temple redesign, I think I like it better than the original. Shorter spire, but I think it has more unique character now - a bit more ornate and dynamic.
Christopher Nicholson - Your statement about "past few decades of stagnant growth" is not accurate. The Church has grown significantly in the past 30 years. Even when you compare to world population growth rates, the percentage of Latter-day Saints increased from 0.14% in 1989 to 0.22% in 2019. The number of congregations has nearly doubled from 17,305 in 1989 to 30,940 in 2019. The number of stakes has increased from 1,739 in 1989 to 3,437 in 2019. The number of missions increased from 228 in 1989 to 399 in 2019. In most countries in Oceania with religious affiliation reported on the census, the rate of self-identified Latter-day Saints increased more rapidly than Church-reported membership. The Church established its first branches in perhaps as many as 100 countries since 1989. Even in the past 10 years, the Church has organized its first branches in several countries such as Gabon, Guinea, Mali, Senegal, and The Gambia.
The past few years have been pretty lousy for Church growth for the world as a whole. However, this not the first time this has happened. There are many examples if you go back 50, 100, or 150 years ago when there were several consecutive years with dismal growth in membership, congregations, or stakes (and these often correlate to a major world event like a world war or economic crisis). Do not forget the number of stakes actually decreased in 2002 from 2,607 to 2,602. This was when I became interested in Church growth, and it was very disheartening to see the massive contraction in congregations in Latin America during the early 2000s. However, these periods generally do not last for long, and things improve. As for the stone cut without hands prophecy, who is to say that there are not times when the rock slows down or hits an obstacle on its descent? A more comprehensive and long-term view of Church growth in the past 150 years has many examples of disappointments and tragedies with Church growth. One of my favorite stories was how the original mission in Tonga closed in the late 1800s due to low receptivity and few convert baptisms. Now, the Church in Tonga has the highest percentage of Latter-day Saints of any country in the world.
Worldwide Church membership has grown at a more rapid rate that world population growth for every year within recent memory except for the past couple years.
Congregational growth rates for the year are essentially flat. However, this is not the first time this has happened. The Church reported a net increase of only 30 congregations for the entire world in 2018. In 2002, there was a net increase of only 59 congregations for the entire world.
Major obstacles for Church growth are how can the Church reverse stagnant growth in Europe and industrialized Asia, getting more YSAs to get married, stay married, have children, and remain active in the Church, and how to more rapidly expand outreach in areas where populations are most receptive to the Latter-day Saint gospel message.
Cam someone explain what is meant by "locations recently closed by the Church" in the newsletter? I see Geneva, Illinois on that list, but it isn't as if the Church "closed" in Gdneva, as it implies. The Geneva Ward was in suburban Chicago which covered Geneva and some adjacent cities. All that happened was the Geneva Ward was discontinued and combined with the St. Charles Ward. The Church still exists in Geneva. In fact, the meetinghouse that housed both wards is still in Geneva, but now only houses the St. Charles Ward instead of both the Geneva Ward and the St. Charles Ward. I think saying the Church closed in Geneva is semantics, and not really true.
ReplyDeleteThe determination is made with whether the Church has its own ward or branch for a particular city or town - even if it is in very close proximity to another. Yes, Geneva and St. Charles are very close, and the meetinghouse is technically in Geneva although the bulk of the city is on the other side of the Fox River. Given the name of the retained unit is St. Charles and the meetinghouse is closer to St. Charles than most of Geneva, I believed this met the criteria I use for determine whether or not a city has an official ward or branch.
ReplyDeleteThe Lichfield England Stake and Gosford Australia Stake are being discontinued. Source: reddit and Facebook
ReplyDeleteYes the Gosford stake was discontinued on Sunday the 5th June. 4 stakes were condensed into 3. A couple branches from the Newcastle stake went north into the Coffs Harbour district. Harbour stake is now the North Sydney stake. Its an interesting development as the Gosford stake was only formed about 4 years ago.
DeleteYes the Gosford stake was discontinued on Sunday the 5th June. 4 stakes were condensed into 3. A couple branches from the Newcastle stake went north into the Coffs Harbour district. Harbour stake is now the North Sydney stake. Its an interesting development as the Gosford stake was only formed about 4 years ago.
DeleteWhat's happening in Antalya, Turkey?
ReplyDeleteNew member group? Missionaries assigned there for the first time?
Three stake consolidations today, the Hayward California and Concord California stakes closed today. Also one in England.
ReplyDeleteNew stake created: Nealtican South Stake, marking three stakes in Nealtican, a small town west of Puebla Mexico.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteMatt, this is clearly a spam comment not in keeping with the guidelines you reiterated, so I hope you'll remove it (and this housekeeping comment) ASAP. Thanks.
DeleteJohnathan,
ReplyDeleteI'm not the expert, but based on classic maps the new Antalya branch covers most of southern Turkey. It's about 1,200 miles across by road. The branch is part of the Bulgaria/Central Eurasian Mission. There are no stakes or districts in that mission.
First missionaries arrived in Turkey in the 1850's.
The Book of Mormon was translated into Turkish in 1906.
The Church became legally recognized by the government in October 2011 and in February 2012 the church held its first church services and full-time missionaries from the Bulgaria Sofia Mission were assigned to Istanbul to begin proselyting.
The Church has operated branches in Turkey continuously since the 1970s. https://www.cumorah.com/countries/reachingNations/Turkey
ReplyDeleteAntalya is very popular with European tourists. Traditionally, this is an industry attracting many immigrant workers from places like the Philippines. I wonder if those workers constitute a large proportion of members in that group (assuming that is the status).
ReplyDeleteOther Matt here...
ReplyDeleteMy understanding from a senior missionary couple who served in Turkey, that the Church had to start from scratch about 10 years ago. So these recently opened branches are a result from those efforts.
Thanks for the info on Turkey, guys!
Delete@Other Matt:
What was the event(s)/situation that triggered the Church starting over in Turkey 10 years ago?
With the recent realignment of the 2 Puebla Mexico Nealtican stakes. The "Puebla Mexico Nealtican Stake - 520187" was renamed the "Nealtican Mexico Stake - 520187". Also the "Puebla Mexico Nealtican North Stake - 1850776" has been renamed the "Nealtican Mexico North Stake - 1850776".
ReplyDeletehttps://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=19.074309,-98.523012&z=10&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&q=520187&find=stake:520187
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=19.122176,-98.452312&z=11&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&q=1850776&find=stake:1850776
The official new name for the "Abobo Côte d'Ivoire Quatre Étages Stake" is "Quatre Étages Côte d'Ivoire Stake - 2195879"
ReplyDeletehttps://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#x=find&find=stake:2195879
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=5.44023,-4.011525&z=16&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&q=Quatre%20%C3%89tages
So i have read through the comments of the last month's worth of posts and it seems to be flying under the radar a little. Jim Anderson posted the video of the Lindon groundbreaking where Elder Pearson mentioned that there would be 500 temples announced, under constructed, and operating by 2030 if 25 a year are announced. I find this interesting because he was on the church news podcast the week before the groundbreaking and he mentioned Pres Nelson's vision of the world is to have 10 times the amount of temples than what we have. 10 times! So if we have 156 operating temples, that would result in 1500 temples. So folks the predictions are fun but I think a moot point now. 1500 temples would be almost 1 temple for every 2 stakes in the church. Of course they won't all be built in the next 10 years but still. Here is his quote from the podcast. (Episode 79) Church News Podcast
ReplyDeleteElder Kevin W. Pearson: Soon to be 28. When all the temples that are announced are up and running, we’ll have 28 temples. Just in our lifetime.
Sheri Dew: Think of it.
Elder Kevin W. Pearson: Yeah, it’s just amazing, and guess what? You can bet your lunch money tomorrow that President Nelson is going to announce a substantial list of temples. I don’t know that, but I’ll be shell shocked if it doesn’t happen.
So we’ve got a Prophet who, when he became President of the Church, looked around and said, “I think we’ve got about 156 operating temples.” In the vision he sees of the world, there are 10 times that many operating temples in the world, and they are everywhere. And truly the restored gospel of Jesus Christ fills the earth. We’ll need all those temples.
People look at the Church and say, “Well, maybe you’re not growing as much as it looked like the Church was in the 1980s.” Well, maybe, maybe not. But, if you understand our doctrine: OK, the gathering on the other side of the veil has been enormous. Every mission president knows how many people are on date for baptism. I would suggest to people that there are hundreds of millions, maybe billions of people that are on date for baptism on the other side of the veil, and that’s why we’re going to need 10 times as many temples. And if you could just see the vision that President Nelson has for this work, you’d realize the Church is growing at a breathtaking, phenomenal rate when you combine both sides of the veil."
@The Opinion
DeleteThanks for quoting that Elder Pearson/Sheri Dew conversation. It helped put things in perspective again for me.
I'll admit that part of me had been trying to catch the vision of if some of the new temples would be fully necessary in certain areas with smaller membership or less stakes.
And at times when I'm disheartened about people leaving the Church or when some stakes close in far off regions of the world, or that the convert numbers not being as high in certain places (for now) as they once were...
I remind myself that the numbers don't always tell the full story, that there are people waiting and being prepared (like that group of "lost" Saints in the DRC, Africa that Matt so recently brought to our attention) and that if I can't see immediate results on this side of the veil, I can always sit down, do some Family History, submit some family names to the temple, and see more immediate results on the other side of the veil.
(This is also my shameless plug for Family History work, as I was recently called to be a Ward FH Consultant.) ;)
And it is interesting to me how, as I do that work on the computer, real "live" conversion (as opposed to "for the dead" conversion) and reactivation and gospel sharing opportunities become available in my life.
I'm currently helping to keep a formerly less-active, part-member man in my ward active, by getting to know him, becoming his friend (and introducing him to genealogy). ;)
He surprised me this last week by giving me a different translation of the Bible than I'm used to (as a gift), because we'd started to become friends and found we had things in common.
I'm also inviting the missionaries to attend the local sports group I go to once a week, to get to know some more of the community members I know and have started making friends with (plus, it's nice to have more Priesthood Brethren there - I've noticed the Spirit is different while we play - more fun, less contentious or competitive.)
I don't know what exact results will yield, or when this "seed-planting" will bear fruit, but I'm interested to see where it goes, and I feel it's at least changing me (and my small corner of the Restored Church of Jesus Christ) for the better.
The Opinion, not long after President Nelson became the prophet, I heard multiple reports from Church leaders that addressed President Nelson's goal by saying: "Take the current number and add a zero." The statement was not specific as to whether "add[ing] a zero" applied to the total number of operating temples (which now stands at 172 and will be 173 in a couple of weeks) or the total number of all temples (currently standing at 282). I have shared that statement several times on my blog and here on various threads of this blog, terming it as "a ten-fold increase".
ReplyDeleteAnd an additional statement by Elder Pearson at the groundbreaking for the Lindon Temple further indicated that President Nelson is wanting the Church to have a minimum total of 500 temples in any phase by the 200th anniversary of the Church's reestablishment (April 6, 2030). Since the Church is currently on track to have 200 temples dedicated by early-to-mid 2024, and since temple construction has accelerated recently and is on track to continue to do so, my personal prediction is that the Church will have at least 300 temples dedicated by the same anniversary. That would require the dedications of roughly 16-17 temples per year between now and then, which I think could be easily accomplished. Starting later this year, the Church appears to be on track to dedicate 2-3 temples per month every month for the foreseeable future.
And with the latest and potential future advancements that have helped to speed up temple construction, I wouldn't be shocked if 500 temples in any phase by Saturday, April 6, 2030, turns out to be an underestimate. I have previously mentioned that in my state conference in December, Elder Kevin S. Hamilton indicated the Church had around 300 temples in various stages of planning, approval, construction, or operation. Since there were only 265 at that time, I surmised that 35 more would be announced this year. With 17 announced in April, I anticipate a minimum of 18 to be announced in October. And if the Church announces around 35 temples almost every year, that will impact the timing whereby we will see 500 total temples. Crazy and yet awesome to think about.
Oaxaca México Brenamiel Stake (2199890)
ReplyDeleteActive Date: 5 Jun 2022
Antequera Ward (137634) Barrio Antequera
Etla Ward (193216) Barrio Etla
La Joya Ward (267767) Barrio La Joya
Los Angeles Ward (459429) Barrio Los Angeles
Valle de Etla Ward (2067153) Barrio Valle de Etla
Yagul Ward (188611) Barrio Yagul
Matt, the corrected name of the "13. Abobo Cote d'Ivoire Quatre Étages - May 29th", at least according to the official Classic Maps Site, is :
ReplyDelete"Quatre Etages Cote d'Ivoire Stake - 2195879"
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=5.450227,-4.012362&z=13&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&find=stake:2195879
Maybe J S A can correct me if I am wrong, since they have access to the Church Unit Directory (CDOL)?
No, that is not correct about the Church being first established in Turkey in 2012. The Church has been in Turkey for decades, and there have been Turkish members in Turkey for decades. However, official proselytism began in 2012. Here's the member activity section of the Turkey article for Reaching the Nations that I updated in 2020:
ReplyDeleteVery few Turks have joined the Church in Turkey. The first Turk to join the Church in Ankara was in 2006. In early 2009, there were ten active members in the Ankara Branch. There were twenty-two people who attended the first meeting of the Istanbul Branch in its new meetinghouse in February 2012, and there were ten active youth in the branch in November 2012.[14] In 2012, 40-45 members attended a devotional with international Church leaders in Istanbul.[15] Elder Jeffrey R. Holland met with 150 Latter-day Saints in Istanbul in late 2015.[16] Dozens of new converts joined the Church in branches in Istanbul, Ankara, and Izmir during the late 2010s. Returned missionaries who served in Turkey during the mid- to late 2010s noted that most branches had between 10-30 active members. Convert retention rates one year after baptisms were estimated at 60% or greater for most years in the late 2010s. However, the entire Central Eurasian Mission reported fewer than 100 convert baptisms a year during this time. Missionaries operate through passive finding approaches out of respect for local culture. National active membership is likely around 150, or 25-30% of total membership.
Other Matt here...
DeleteMy "starting from stratch" comment did not mean there were not members in Turkey, but that the church had to reevaluate its procedures in order to move forward with opening or reopening branches in Turkey.
Here's a quote from Elder Pearson, President of the Utah Area, in April 2022 with some excellent statistical information about the Church in Utah and how important it is for the Church's worldwide operations: https://www.thechurchnews.com/podcast/2022-04-19/episode-79-elder-kevin-w-pearson-on-the-positive-influence-utah-has-on-the-global-church-featuring-sheri-dew-as-guest-host-251200
ReplyDelete"Well, I think that’s true on several levels. On just one level it’s roughly 13% of the membership of the Church, but nearly 20% of the stakes, which ought to suggest something about faithfulness. We send out about 30% of the young full-time missionaries; we send out over 52% of the senior couples. So, just in terms of what we export, in terms of sheer volume of resources to help from a leadership perspective. Probably, I don’t know, about 30% of the general leadership of the Church comes from this area. About, almost an equivalent, maybe 25%-27% of all the mission presidents and temple presidents. So it is an extremely important exporter or creator of leadership, talent and ability in the Church."
Not trying to be flippant, but hasn't Utah's importance to the worldwide Church been pretty much always the case? What is different now, if anything?
ReplyDeleteAlso, is anyone else kind of alarmed of how many wards and stake are being closed these days? What used to be a seemingly rare event is happening with shocking regularity, particularly the closure of stakes, which was a practically unheard of event say 30 years ago.
Ohhappydane33 - Yes, we have seen a lot of wards and branches discontinued in 2022 so far. However, it is important to note that this happens in waves every so often. For example, there was a net increase of only 30 congregations for the entire world in 2018, and this was primarily due to the mass consolidation of wards/branches in Mexico after decades of Church leaders sparing them a little longer to see if things could turn around with so many congregations with few active members. Also, the Church reported a net increase of only 124 congregations in 2011, and the reason why this year was such a slow year was because the Church had closed hundreds of YSA/Student congregations in Utah primarily to pave the way for YSA stakes being established.
ReplyDeleteThis year, the unit consolidations have primarily occurred in Japan, Europe, and the United States (especially on the West Coast). I imagine plans for these consolidations have been in the works for years and probably before COVID, and only now have then been executed since things have returned to normal for most areas. Currently, there has been really no net increase in wards/branches for 2022 as we have had fewer new congregations being created than normal.
As for what the latter half of 2022 holds in store, I believe we will continue to see significant consolidations on the West Coast of the United States as well as potentially more in Japan as the southern part of Honshu and southern islands have not had any significant restructuring of congregations/stakes yet. Also, it is just a matter of time before we see a major consolidation of stakes/congregations in Salt Lake City. I am surprised this has not happened yet because there could literally be 10-20 stakes that are consolidated as we have many stakes with only 5-6 wards now in the older areas of the city. This has been a process that has gradually occurred for about 20 years now in these areas.
1) The church has already shown that it is willing to build temples at roughly the "two stakes per temple" level. The announced temple in Norway will probably only have the two Norwegian stakes in it (plus the few other branches in Northern Norway). Even if it does cross the border into Sweden, the Copenhagen, Stockholm and Oslo temples are only covering about 9 stakes or so. (Helsinki is actually in better shape in this regard since it covers the Baltics and part of Russia)
ReplyDelete2) I'm honestly curious what the current backlog of those with work to be done is and whether (without a significant ingress into China) how much work theoretically could be done.
3) Note, there will be a large number of people living even as recently as the 18th century for which neither written records not oral tradition will give enough information to do work, even if every person currrently alive joined the Church...
4) That sort of expansion will effect some temples more than others. Washington DC isn't being used nearly as much as it can, even with a Temple District that includes places that will be taken away by either the new Pittsburgh or Richmond temple. I could honestly see it being closed for a few days a week (other than Sunday) after those empty.
5) And unrelated. How easy would it be to boil things down so that the question could be answered: X% of the growth of the Church in the last decade is from Africa?
@ Christopher Duerig CDOL shows the following:
ReplyDeleteQuatre Etages Cote d'Ivoire Stake (2195879)
Pieu de Quatre Etages Cote d'Ivoire
I believe that nothing in the Church happens by chance, for some reason they plan the steps to follow, the announcement of the temples in so many places has a purpose, the closure or consolidation of units in the world church has many possible, real answers that are not they are said publicly, one reads between the lines.
ReplyDeleteFrom my experience of what I have seen in Santiago de Chile since 1990 I have seen the strengthening, decay and numbness in the baptized, and I do not say this criticizing, but from what I have lived, after all the service and volunteering that I gave.
Of course, glad to see temple announcements in many places, those who want to attend is a great advance, this goes hand in hand with genealogy, changes in the church take time and are slow, the FAMILYSEARCH platform, it is wonderful still requires urgent changes that managers do not want to hear.
The Family History Centers hardly open and if they do, one or two hours at the most, that means not being able to advance in the genealogical search as one expects.
I thought that with the pandemic the Church would become stronger and better established in my country, the truth is that I am not so sure about it, I long for the moment to re-enter the temple once a year has passed since my baptism.
Matt - your comment makes me wonder if a "Top 10" list post would be interesting to see:
ReplyDeleteTop 10 most likely stakes to divide.
Top 10 most likely stakes to consolidate.
Not sure what prediction models you could use to predict a stake consolidation, especially given the geocentric nature of stake closures that happen in clusters, but even identifying general areas (like Japan this year) for the future would be interesting. In other words, in 2023, what countries/areas do you see having heavy consolidations like Mexico had a few years ago or Japan had this year? What about countries/areas where several stakes will be created?
JSA, can you help me with Church unit totals? I had access to the CDOL until early this year, and I showed 3498 stakes, 511 districts, 24,255 wards, and 6,975 branches (31,230 total wards and branches) on Dec. 31,2021. Can you provide the current totals for us so far this year? Thanks very much.
ReplyDeleteElder Christopherson recently visited Bolivia and Peru. This was the first time an apostle has visted either country since before Covid, possibly since Elder Soares was in Peru to dedicate the Arequipa Temple.
ReplyDeleteTwo of the cities visited were Iquitos and Chiclayo. I have to wonder if he was studying various factors to possibly recomend one or hopefully both those cities for a temple.
Utah's presence to the Church of Jesus Christ has been crucial since 1847 till now, and presumably always will be. However, there are now major regions across the globe where the LDS faith is robust, like Mexico, Brazil, West Africa, Central Africa. The South Pacific has been highly involved for a long time.
ReplyDeletethe problem is that the Church overall is no longer growing faster that the population Rate. It is in decline in many if not most parts of the world. Elder Bednar recently commented that many younger generations are not satisfied with religion overall. This could become an ominous situation
DeleteUnknown, true but you can't take anything for granted nowadays. One could have easily argued that the Church was robust here in California in say 1990. If you haven't lived in such an area where the Church seems to be dying on the vine, you may not be able to comprehend it. I am 49 years old and the ward that I spent my entire childhood in from the 70s until the 90s was discontinued last Sunday, and the meetinghouse of that ward went from housing three wards to now just one, which would have been unthinkable just 10 years ago. It's rather depressing to know that a large piece of my childhood is now gone.
ReplyDeleteSome very early planning meetings for the Richmond open house have been reported to have been held according to a Facebook post.
ReplyDeleteHeard the current three Washington temples reservations are always booked a month out solid, and we still have at least a year until Moses Lake could be ready to ease things east of the Cascades.
Also confirmed today on the Classic Maps site :
ReplyDelete"Sydney Australia Harbour Stake - 526614" was renamed the "Sydney Australia North Stake - 526614", with the consolidation of the neighboring "Gosford Australia Stake - 2051222".
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=-33.786042,151.20076&z=10&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&q=526614&find=stake:526614
Also the "Hayward California Stake - 502502" was also consolidated into the neighboring "Fremont California Stake - 504653"
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=37.652113,-121.899072&z=10&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&q=Hayward&find=ward:75353
Logging in to another computer got me "Unknown", unintentional. The Church of Jesus Christ is mighty strong in multiple parts of the United States. There is attrition in some regions, recently in the Pacific west, and by natural depopulation in some central states. There is a Gen Z or youth weakness and attrition, which is certain.
ReplyDeleteThe worldwide faith will compensate for the lack of U.S., Western, Latin American and others who fall away. Not that it does not smart, a lot, as we all know people who fall away from belief in God. Or simply find the Church too antiquated or politically incorrect. Some find that Joseph Smith is false, the scriptures, the lack of perfect prophets, the male nature of the priesthood. Or, the apparent non-benefit of many parts of the Word of Wisdom or law of chastity.
There are a lot of reasons for people to fall away.
But the people of God will fulfill His will. We focus on the Lord, His Gospel, the good news of the whole program, the Holy Spirit, (which is hard for a lot of people to do). It will work out.
Temple work must continue, as it is doing. Keep it up. Stay faithful, no matter those who fall away. I think the history of the scriptures has the same ups and downs.
@ Ray
ReplyDeleteDate of last update: Jun 10, 2022 5:10:11 AM MDT
global
23 areas
280 temples
408 missions
3506 stakes
510 districts
24261 wards
6969 branches
35957 total
J S A, thanks for that update. Shouldn't there be 282 temples now? That's what the news release about the 17 newest temples says:
Deletehttps://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/prophet-new-temples-april-2022
JSA, so we see that stakes are up net 8, districts down net 1, wards up 6, branches down 6, resulting in no net gain in wards and branches, as Matt said just yesterday. Thanks for sharing this information.
ReplyDeleteSo that is minus 6 branches plus 6 wards. Equivalent gain of plus 3 wards. Calling that anemic would be an understatement.
ReplyDeleteI've been wondering for a quite a while, how do we reconcile the church's past few decades of stagnant growth with the prophecy of the stone cut out without hands? To me and obviously to a lot of people, that metaphor has always implied spectacular, exponential growth. A stone rolling downhill gets faster as it goes. It doesn't slow down. It doesn't stay at the same speed for a really long time. It certainly doesn't ever go backwards. This just nags at me every time people say it doesn't matter whether the church is growing much or not.
ReplyDelete@JSA and Ray: So there has been a net increase of only 6 wards all year globally? How does that stack up to most years? Must be a record low.
ReplyDeleteLooking at the Yorba Linda Temple redesign, I think I like it better than the original. Shorter spire, but I think it has more unique character now - a bit more ornate and dynamic.
ReplyDeleteChristopher Nicholson - Your statement about "past few decades of stagnant growth" is not accurate. The Church has grown significantly in the past 30 years. Even when you compare to world population growth rates, the percentage of Latter-day Saints increased from 0.14% in 1989 to 0.22% in 2019. The number of congregations has nearly doubled from 17,305 in 1989 to 30,940 in 2019. The number of stakes has increased from 1,739 in 1989 to 3,437 in 2019. The number of missions increased from 228 in 1989 to 399 in 2019. In most countries in Oceania with religious affiliation reported on the census, the rate of self-identified Latter-day Saints increased more rapidly than Church-reported membership. The Church established its first branches in perhaps as many as 100 countries since 1989. Even in the past 10 years, the Church has organized its first branches in several countries such as Gabon, Guinea, Mali, Senegal, and The Gambia.
ReplyDeleteThe past few years have been pretty lousy for Church growth for the world as a whole. However, this not the first time this has happened. There are many examples if you go back 50, 100, or 150 years ago when there were several consecutive years with dismal growth in membership, congregations, or stakes (and these often correlate to a major world event like a world war or economic crisis). Do not forget the number of stakes actually decreased in 2002 from 2,607 to 2,602. This was when I became interested in Church growth, and it was very disheartening to see the massive contraction in congregations in Latin America during the early 2000s. However, these periods generally do not last for long, and things improve. As for the stone cut without hands prophecy, who is to say that there are not times when the rock slows down or hits an obstacle on its descent? A more comprehensive and long-term view of Church growth in the past 150 years has many examples of disappointments and tragedies with Church growth. One of my favorite stories was how the original mission in Tonga closed in the late 1800s due to low receptivity and few convert baptisms. Now, the Church in Tonga has the highest percentage of Latter-day Saints of any country in the world.
Worldwide Church membership has grown at a more rapid rate that world population growth for every year within recent memory except for the past couple years.
Congregational growth rates for the year are essentially flat. However, this is not the first time this has happened. The Church reported a net increase of only 30 congregations for the entire world in 2018. In 2002, there was a net increase of only 59 congregations for the entire world.
Major obstacles for Church growth are how can the Church reverse stagnant growth in Europe and industrialized Asia, getting more YSAs to get married, stay married, have children, and remain active in the Church, and how to more rapidly expand outreach in areas where populations are most receptive to the Latter-day Saint gospel message.