As promised, this is a continuation of my previous blog post regarding the 13 new temple announced made by the Church on October 3rd, 2021:
Vitória Brazil Temple
The Vitória Brazil Temple will be the Church's 14th temple in Brazil. Vitória was a major surprise given that there are few stakes in the Vitória metropolitan area and it surrounding cities in Espírito Santo State. However, given the trend with the Church announcing more temples in locations distant to the nearest temple, this location was added to my less likely locations for a new temple map in September 2019. The new temple will likely include only four stakes and two districts. The Church first established a stake in Vitória in 1987 and has experienced slow growth as only two additional stakes have been organized in the metropolitan area since then in 1995 and 2005. The Brazil Vitória Mission was created in 1993. Stakes in Espírito Santo State will likely be assigned to the Rio de Janeiro Brazil Temple once the temple is dedicated. Currently, stakes and districts in the likely district for the new Vitória Brazil Temple are assigned to the Campinas Brazil Temple.
La Paz Bolivia Temple
The La Paz Bolivia Temple ranked as one of the most likely locations to have a new temple announced given that it was the metropolitan area with the most stakes without a temple announced or dedicated outside of the United States prior to October 2021. There are nine stakes in the La Paz/El Alto metropolitan area, and the new temple will likely have nine stakes and one district in its temple district. The first stake in the metropolitan area was organized in 1979, and the most recently organized stake in the metropolitan area was created in 2013. Now, all three cities in Bolivia with more than one million people have a temple announced or dedicated. The Bolivia La Paz Mission was originally organized in 1966, and a second mission in the metropolitan area was organized in 2015 (Bolivia La Paz El Alto). La Paz was on my list of top 10 most likely locations to have a temple announced since March 2020. There are now three temples in Bolivia, namely the Cochabamba Bolivia Temple (dedicated in 2000) and the Santa Cruz Bolivia Temple (announced in 2020). Currently, stakes in La Paz/El Alto attend the Cochabamba Bolivia Temple. The new La Paz Bolivia Temple will be the temple located at the highest altitude of any temple in the world given that the metropolitan area rests at approximately 12,000 feet (3,700 meters) above sea level. Currently, the dedicated temple at the highest elevation in the Church is the Cochabamba Bolivia Temple at approximately 8,700 feet (2,650 meters) above sea level.
Santiago West Chile Temple
The Santiago West Chile Temple is the Church's fourth temple in Chile. The Church has previously dedicated temples in Santiago (1983) and Concepción (2018), and the Church announced a temple in Antofagasta (2020). I added a second temple for Santiago to my less likely list for temple announcements in March 2021, but I had predicted a second temple was most likely for southern Santiago. The new temple will likely include 15-20 stakes and three districts in Santiago and cities south of the city in O'Higgins and Maule Regions. The Church organized its first stake in Santiago in 1972, and there are currently 30 stakes in the metropolitan area. Santiago is now the fifth metropolitan area outside of the United States with two temples dedicated or announced after Lima, Peru; Manila, Philippines; Guatemala City, Guatemala; and São Paulo, Brazil.
Fort Worth Texas Temple
Forth Worth was added to my list of less likely temple locations in March 2021. The new temple is the sixth temple in Texas, and the new temple will likely include 11 stakes in the Fort Worth area and cities to the south and west. The first stake in Fort Worth was organized in 1967, and the Texas Fort Worth Mission was created in 1986. The Church dedicated its temple in Dallas in 1984. Currently, the Dallas Texas Temple has 28 stakes in its district. Rapid growth in the number of stakes has occurred in the Dallas/Fort Worth area within the past 10 years as there have been eight stakes created in the metropolitan area during this time. Other temples in Texas are located in Houston (dedicated in 2000), Lubbock (dedicated in 2002), San Antonio (dedicated in 2005), and McAllen (announced in 2019, currently under construction).
Cody Wyoming Temple
The Cody Wyoming Temple was a complete surprise to me, and I did not include it on any of my predictions of locations likely to have a new temple announced. The new temple will likely include only three stakes: the Cody Wyoming Stake (organized in 1973), the Lovell Wyoming Stake (organized in 1901), and the Worland Wyoming Stake (organized in 1980). The Cody Wyoming Stake appears likely to divide in the near future as there are 13 wards in the stake. The new temple is the Church's third temple in Wyoming after the Star Valley Wyoming Temple (dedicated in 2016) and the Casper Wyoming Temple (announced in 2021, currently under construction).
Rexburg North Idaho Temple
Commenters on this blog have speculated about the announcement of a second temple in Rexburg prior to the October 2021 General Conference, and these speculations ended up being correct. The new temple announcement appeared heavily influenced by the Church's growing university in Rexburg and reports of the current Rexburg Idaho Temple being well utilized by membership in the area. Currently, the Rexburg Idaho Temple (announced in 2003 and dedicated in 2008) has 26 stakes in its temple district (15 of which are young single adult stakes or married student stakes). It is likely that the new temple will include half of the stakes currently assigned to the Rexburg Idaho Temple. The first stake in Rexburg was organized in 1884. The new temple is the eighth temple in Idaho after the Idaho Falls Idaho Temple (announced in 1937, dedicated in 1945), Boise Idaho Temple (announced in 1982, dedicated in 1984), the Rexburg Idaho Temple (announced in 2003, dedicated in 2008), the Twin Falls Idaho Temple (announced in 2004, dedicated in 2008), the Meridian Idaho Temple (announced in 2011, dedicated in 2017), the Pocatello Idaho Temple (announced in 2017), and the Burley Idaho Temple (announced in April 2021).
Heber Valley Utah Temple
The Church has announced a new temple in Utah at every General Conference since April 2018. The Heber Valley Utah Temple is the Church's 28th temple to be announced in Utah. Heber City has numbered among the most likely locations in Utah given its location and number of stakes in the area. The new temple will likely service eight stakes in Wasatch and Summit Counties. The first stake in Heber City was organized in 1877. Previously dedicated or announced temples in Utah include: the St. George Utah Temple (announced in 1871, dedicated in 1877), the Logan Utah Temple (announced in 1876, dedicated in 1884), the Manti Utah Temple (announced in 1875, dedicated in 1888), the Salt Lake Temple (announced in 1847, dedicated in 1893), the Ogden Utah Temple (announced in 1967, dedicated in 1972), the Provo Utah Temple (announced in 1967, dedicated in 1972), the Jordan River Utah Temple (announced in 1978, dedicated in 1981), the Bountiful Utah Temple (announced in 1990, dedicated in 1995), the Mount Timpanogos Utah Temple (announced in 1992, dedicated in 1996), the Vernal Utah Temple (announced in 1994, dedicated in 1997), the Monticello Utah Temple (announced in 1997, dedicated in 1998), the Draper Utah Temple (announced in 2004, dedicated in 2009), the Oquirrh Mountain Utah Temple (announced in 2005, dedicated in 2009), the Brigham City Utah Temple (announced in 2009, dedicated in 2012), the Payson Utah Temple (announced in 2010, dedicated in 2015), the Provo City Center Temple (announced in 2011, dedicated in 2016), Cedar City Utah Temple (announced in 2013, dedicated in 2017), the Saratoga Springs Utah Temple (announced in 2017), the Layton Utah Temple (announced in 2018), the Red Cliffs Utah Temple (located in St. George) (announced in 2018), the Deseret Peak Utah Temple (located in Tooele) (announced in 2019), the Orem Utah Temple (announced in 2019), the Taylorsville Utah Temple (announced in 2019), the Syracuse Utah Temple (announced in 2020), the Lindon Utah Temple (announced in 2020), the Smithfield Utah Temple (announced in 2021), and the Ephraim Utah Temple (announced in 2021). There is an average of 22 stakes per temple at present given the number of stakes in Utah (621).
Jako odlično
ReplyDeleteHvala!
ReplyDeleteThere you go, Nancy! What do you think of this?
ReplyDeleteSantiago attracts a lot of people from the whole country and there will be transplants from all over who will attend there. My old companions from Maipu and El Bosque should be closer to this temple. Patricio, Manuel, and Juan. Maybe Punte Alto, and apparently San Fernando and Rancagua, too.
Southern Chile could use at least two more temples.
Argentine Patagonia, too.
Great more isolated temple in Brazil, e bom para ver.
Qué bonito, tudo.
Hey, Matt. I had mentioned in my first comment on the threads of the previous post that I would withhold my comments about the7 remaining temples until your second post was published. Vitoria came as a huge surprise for me, especially in view of your analysis that it would serve a much smaller group of stakes/districts than other temples. I believe there is leeway in the Church's plans to both close existing gaps in Brazil and to also provide a closer option for Vitoria. By extension, I anticipate that the Vitoria temple will be between 5,000 and 10,000 square feet. I say that because it is anticipated to serve such a small population. The Church has set the precedent for temples of that size in remote areas where getting to the currently-assigned larger temples creates unnecessary hardship, so Vitoria fits that mold. I imagine that in other Brazilian states where 5 or fewer stakes or districts operate. And I could see something similar being announced at some point for Lithuania, for which a temple was publicly proposed by then-Elder Ballard for Vilnius. And I believe in the case of Lithuania, the approval for and construction of such an edifice might generate interest in the Church sufficiently for the Vilniu area to receive a stake during the period when such a temple would be under construction. But further comments on Lithuania as a temple prospect might best occur in the threads of another post at some other time.
ReplyDeleteGetting back to this announcement, I was advised of the Church's intended plan to build a temple in Rexburg North Idaho and Santiago Chile West by Steven Cuff, who shared the merits of those locations by a scoring method he uses to establish the imminent likelihood of several candidate cities that I wound up adding to my list just before General Conference. Among those were Santiago West Chile and Rexburg North Idaho.
What will be interesting to see is if La Paz gets approval and begins construction before Santa Cruz, which was announced one year before La Paz. We've seen something similar occur with the Davoa Philippines Temple (announced in October 2018 and has been under construction since last year). That temple was announced six months after the temple in Cagayan de Oro, and not only has a groundbreaking been set for Davao, but construction on it is well underway. In the 3.5 years sincd Cagayan de Oro was announced, not only have we seen Davao announced and moving up on the construction queue before Cagayan de Oro, but a groundbreaking has also been announced in Decemberof this year for the Cacolod Philippines Temple. So I don't think it would be out of the question for the Church to break ground on the temple in La Paz before the groundbreaking occurs for Santa Cruz, and that the Vienna Austria Temple could see a groundbreaking before ground is broken for the Budapest Hungary Temple, which was announced before Vienna. I have nothing to back up that belief except my own feelings and Davao being under construction while anything official on the Cagayan de Oro has yet-to-be-announced.
So having commented on Vitoria, La Paz, Santiago West, and Rexburg North, Fort Worth Exas and Heber Valley Utah have been on my list for a while. I was also predicting Evanston above Cody, but that might have just been faulty reasoning on my part. President Nelson now holds the distinction of having the highest number of temples announced by a new Church President within his first four years as prophet, which is tremendous:
https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/10/3/22703022/president-russell-m-nelson-announces-new-lds-temples-at-october-general-conference
My thanks once again to you all,.
Bacalod sounds right to me, not the way it is spelled above. I am no expert on Filipino cities but just noting the C seems wrong, maybe it’s me.
ReplyDeleteI think there are now many, 5 or more Utah Temples that I have never seen or been to. It is harder and harder to visit them all, if that is a goal for anyone else.
So British Colombia needs another temple based on geography? Alaska could use at least two more. Unless there is one recently I forgot about.
Great to see all these temples going forward.
Eduardo, I'm pleased to see this final write-up of the most recently announced temples. I admit that I have become a bit of an addict when it comes to temple news and speculation, thanks to this blog, and all the commenters. I think it's possible that a temple will be put in Punta Arenas or Ushuaia at some future time. It could serve 5 stakes, with potential growth creating more stakes in that very remote and far distant location.
ReplyDeleteI love these discussions because of the possible temple announcements, and then the analysis of each country where the blessing of having a temple was announced.
ReplyDeleteIn each general conference, what I look forward to the most is an announcement of a temple, especially for my country, Chile. I feel that it is a source of joy for everyone, that temples are announced in super distant places.
I remember when I was able to enter the temple of Santiago, the attendance was very low, especially in the men, on Friday nights and Saturdays it was the highest attendance. On more than one occasion we could not do the session due to lack of people, so we did initiations or sealings, if possible.
Regardless of the fact that despite the fact that there are more than 600,000 baptized throughout Chile, there are too many inactive, I hope it does not limit the fact that temples continue to be announced for Chile, thinking about the distances, it would be beautiful to see advertisements, in Viña del Mar, Osorno, Valdivia, Punta arenas, Rancagua, La Serena.
Of the few assets that exist, there are many faithful who strive to work on the work.
We are fortunate to see so many temples announced and at different stages in the world.
Having temples closer I feel that it stimulates attendance and obedience, in addition, that it should encourage the work of the genealogy of each family.
Thank you for this blog and others that are dedicated to dealing with topics of interest.
The church has announced the site location for the Ephraim Utah temple:
ReplyDeletehttps://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/site-location-announced-for-a-new-utah-temple
I looked at a map and it appears to be about a block from Snow College.
I remember that was a statement when The Ephraim Utah Temple was announced that it was hoped to be walking distance for many students and members but I'm not sure what news source it was for the exact wording. But having it just a couple of blocks from student housing answers this.
ReplyDeleteWith the released rendering of the Farmington, NM temple, that leaves only Smithfield without a rendering, of the US temples announced in April. Ephraim was announced in May, and it still does not have a rendering, though it's location was announced today. Only 3 of the international temples announced in April have released renderings/locations: Belo Horizonte Brazil, Cali Columbia, and Torreon Mexico. It's interesting to observe the timing on these announcements, and mind-boggling to think of all the behind the scenes work it takes to make them happen.
ReplyDeleteSo if LA Paz was the metro area outside the US with the most stakes without a temple, what is the metro area in the US with the most stakes without a temple?
ReplyDeleteDoes the average of stakes per temple in Utah take into account there are stakes outside Utah assigned to temples in Utah?
ReplyDeleteWhat is the average of stakes per announced temple worldwide?
Hey everyone, I just tested out a map making app named MapChart. I decided to make a map which highlights the number of temples by county in the western US. While I know it doesnt show much, I felt it was still interesting to share.
ReplyDeleteHere is the link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BfI6jwIzYKR1S-vd7EkOfSuhewSQYPJl/view?usp=sharing
Thanks again for the analysis. Once again, I agree with the potential districts for these new temples. A couple of my thoughts on these announced temples:
ReplyDeleteVitória: I wonder, given the prospective size of this temple and temple district, if this will be the first temple in Brazil to utilize the modular construction. I also think this temple announcement is a bellwether that many more "smaller" sized temples may be on the way for Brazil. Of course, there are several cities that are very likely for imminent temple announcements, but I think some of the "less likely" picks may be more likely now.
La Paz: I love the mention that the La Paz temple will be the highest in the world by altitude. :) I like different temple facts like that.
Santiago West: Looking at the map of where stakes are located, I think this temple will likely be built in the southwest portion of the metro as the current temple is in the more north and east part. I think it would be cool if this temple uses a similar type design and size to the Lima Los Olivos temple. As for the next temples to be announced in Chile, I'm still rooting for Punta Arenas, but I could see Osorno as well. I also think one in Valparaíso/Viña del Mar is still very likely even with soon to be two in Santiago. I'm excited to see what metros will be next to have a second temple announced.
Fort Worth: I was a little surprised this one was announced before Austin or El Paso, but given the number of stakes in the growing Dallas-Fort Worth metro, it makes sense. I think Austin and El Paso will have their temples announced soon.
Cody: I agree, this one was a bit of a surprise to me as well, but I like it. I love surprise announcements. I'm curious to see where this one will be built. It looks like there is a field behind the chapel that also houses the Cody Mural and Museum, so perhaps that could be a candidate site. Or perhaps a new site will be acquired. Southwest Wyoming seems to be the likely candidate for the next temple in the state.
Rexburg North: I wonder what the official name for this temple will be to differentiate it from the current Rexburg temple. Perhaps something with Teton in the name? The Teton River is to the north and the Teton Valley is to the east comprising cities that will likely be assigned to the new temple. Depending on the size, maybe this will be the first temple outside of Utah to be built with two baptistries?
Heber Valley: Glad to see this one finally announced. It seemed that other Wasatch Front cities jumped ahead as favorite candidates the past several conferences, for good reason of course with Orem, Taylorsville, Syracuse, and Lindon all being announced back to back. I'm a bit unsure what this temple size will be, but based on recent trends for Utah temples I will guess in the 70 - 80,000 sf range with perhaps the double spire design. There looks to be a lot of land available east of Heber City where this temple could be built, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is built in Midway.
Heber City looks to be covering fewer stakes than temples in Utah, Salt Lake and Davis counties so it might not be as big. Although the trend of growth in Wasatch County might mean they will build it for eventual need.
DeleteI’d guess the Heber Valley Temple will be about 40-45,000 sq ft
DeleteI’ll second that. Probably same floor plan as Richmond/Burley/Feather River, 4-30/3/1.
Delete@John, Anonymous, EP
DeleteThanks for your responses. I initially thought a bit smaller for Heber Valley considering the smaller number of stakes (at least currently), but I wouldn't be surprised if it is bigger as the future district continues to grow. Plus Deseret Peak and Smithfield will be in the 70 -80,000 + sq ft and their potential districts right now are less than 20 although more stakes are likely to be created by the time the temples are dedicated. Will be interesting to see.
@John Depending on how you count stakes in a metro, both Chiclayo Peru and Port Harcourt Nigeria have seven stakes in the vicinity.
ReplyDeleteValparaíso metro area (which includes Viña del Mar) has eight stakes.
ReplyDeleteValparaíso
Valparaíso West
Viña del Mar
Viña del Mar Achupallas
Quilpué
El Belloto
Villa Alemana
Villa Alemana West
The Quillota stake is about 20 minutes to the north and the San Antonio stake is about 30 minutes to the south also but are not part of the metro.
I know that before we've had a long discussion about where the fourth Phoenix metropolitan area temple will be. After looking at the online Maricopa county parcel map, it appears that the only land owned by the church's SUBURBAN LAND RESERVE in Maricopa county is either in or near surprise. What do you all think? Does the church already owning land in a location make that area more likely to have a temple built there?
ReplyDeleteOwning land is at times a plus, but there are other factors. The Phoenix Temple was built at a site where there already was a chapel. So one would want to look at all existing chapel and CES building sites to analyze them for potential temple builds as well.
DeleteI agree. A significant number of temples are built on or next to existing meetinghouse sites. Look for those that may have ballfields or large lawns next them. Some locations such as Taylorsville Utah replace the existing meetinghouse. Other options may be church farms.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteWhen I look at potential temple sites I often use the meetinghouse locator site and look at what buildings in an area have ballfields or empty lots next to them. It seems we like to put temples and stake centers or meetinghouses next to each other That is one way to save on parking and the search for potential sites. Or a way to have potential temple sites in reserve for when the need arises.
DeleteI wonder if a Las Cruces temple would fit better than an El Paso temple since there is one in Ciudad Juarez. I know the border is a factor with El Paso Saints, but maybe a New Mexico temple not far away would serve more members for distant class commutes. I agree that Valparaíso or Viña should get a temple on the Chilean coast.
ReplyDeleteIf more Chilean saints were active they should have 10 temples.
There may also be options to purchase houses or vacant lots next to existing chapels to increase the size of the lot.
ReplyDeleteRexburg is a new record of going from 1st to 2nd temple for a city. It is only 13 years since the first temple there was dedicated.
The previous low may have been the I think 25 years from when Jordan River was dedicated until Oquirrh Mountain was announced.
Pretty sure Rexburg will also be a record for two closest temples by distance (3.3 miles) and probably also the first to (depending on where in the large plot of land the Church bought they put it) have two temples on the same street.
ReplyDeleteWait, Provo to Provo City Center is more than 3.3 miles?
DeleteProvo and Provo City Center are surely closer than 3.3 miles. The Temple-to-Temple race they hold every year on pioneer day is a 5k and according to my watch the route was really only about 2.9 miles, weaving through some streets.
ReplyDeleteA temple in El Paso, Texas, or a temple in Las Cruces, New Mexico?
ReplyDeleteYes, there is a beautiful temple in Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, Mexico. Yes, Saints from El Paso can travel to that temple in about 20 minutes, once they arrive at the border. The problem is being able to return to the United States in a reasonable period of time.
My wife and I lived in El Paso and were ordinance workers in the temple in Ciudad Juárez until two years ago. Even though our home in El Paso was fewer than 10 miles from the temple, it took us an average of 90 minutes to return home after our work was completed each Friday night. More than two hours to cross going north was not unusual. One night in August 2019, it took us six hours to cross the border and arrive home because the U.S. government had shut down all but two lanes entering the U.S.
Wrap your brain around that: Six hours to travel fewer than 10 miles, sitting in a line that ran for miles. We could have walked home faster. Our vehicle edged forward one or two car lengths at a time. While in the line, there was no place to exit for bathroom breaks or even to get out and stretch one's legs.
There is a large contingent of Saints in the military at Fort Bliss and elsewhere. They are prohibited from crossing into Mexico for security reasons. For them, the nearest temple is four hours away in Albuquerque, New Mexico. That's four hours each way.
There is a large contingent of Saints in El Paso who refuse to cross into Mexico for safety reasons. Indeed, the first time we went to the temple a few years ago, there was an assassination just across the bridge. Military and police were swarming everywhere. To get back home, we had to travel to a different part of town and cross at a different bridge.
That a temple is sorely needed in El Paso is without doubt. In correspondence with the Temple Department in Salt Lake during 2019, it was confirmed to me that a temple in El Paso was under consideration. When no temple was announced in April or October General Conference that year, but rather one was announced for McAllen, Texas, we decided to move 800 miles down the river and wait for the McAllen Texas Temple to be built. We are currently halfway there and should have a new temple in another year or so just four miles from our home and without having to cross an international border.
So, as to the question of El Paso vs. Las Cruces: There are seven congregations in Las Cruces and in nearby communities. There are 21 congregations in the three stakes in El Paso. From a logistics viewpoint, these numbers alone indicate that the temple should go in El Paso. Las Cruces would benefit greatly. An El Paso temple would cut their driving time from three hours (to Albuquerque) to one hour (El Paso) each way.
My personal opinion is that the Church has held off announcing an El Paso temple because it would severely cut into operations at the Ciudad Juárez temple that relies on a large contingent of temple workers and patrons from El Paso.
When will El Paso or Las Cruces get a temple? Only time will tell. But in my opinion, a temple in Las Cruces before El Paso makes little sense and I would be shocked if that happened.
Meanwhile, the cupola was secured to the top of the McAllen Texas Temple this month. Both the temple and our new stake center on the property look great just 11 months after groundbreaking. We can't wait!
Be well, friends.
3 stakes in El Paso with the 1 in Las Cruces are clearly enough for a temple. Of course this same model would give metro Cleveland a temple, somewhere in Wisconsin, Lansing, Michigan, Champaign, Illinois, Des Moines, Iowa and a lot more.
DeleteOf course if President Nelson averages over 30 temples announced a year for the next few years we may see all those temples announced and more.
One hour to Las Cruces might be the best option, especially since El Paso residents can still cross the border. I have waited in long car lines returning to the U.S. in both Tijuana and Nogales. Mexicali was faster. Or, I visited the Ciudad Juarez temple walking the border and taking a taxi, which now would be Uber or Lyft. Or, why not help out some local Mexican Saints and pay them 20 bucks (120 pesos?) for a ride. Mutually beneficial.
ReplyDeleteIsn’t Ft. Bliss even closer to New Mexico than most of El Paso proper?
My hometown is an hour 15 or more to the Indianapolis Temple. Now to the DC temple it can be an hour.
Both would ideal, yes. NM and TX. Go no matter where, keep going.
I might walk and ride, do the foot traffic return. Sounds like extra work and danger, but go in the daylight hours.
Buena suerte y Dios les bendiga.
The problem is that temples in areas with 1 stake usually only occur in very isolated areas. Las Cruces just does not pass that test. I could be wrong.
DeleteI suspect El Paso will be announced in 2022, but I could be wrong.
I'd prefer the temple in Las Cruces for personal reasons, but honestly either city would make everyone happy. People drive between the two continuously. It really comes down to property.
ReplyDeleteIf it is in El Paso, hopefully it's on the West side near the Mt Franklin stake. That would make it centralized to both cities, rather than on the Eastern side. Ft Bliss is on the Northeast of El Paso.
There is a small piece of open land next to the Mt Franklin stake center, I don't know who owns it.
ReplyDeleteThere is a large empty lot next the the Las Cruces stake center, not church owned. Visible from the highway.
The church owns a good sized lot in Mesilla, next to Las Cruces, it leases out to a farmer.
I have seen the church give notice to farmers who lease to vacate in the past for building a temple. So the lot in Mesilla is possible.
ReplyDeleteThe Book of Mormon is NOT a book of history?
ReplyDeletehttps://kslnewsradio.com/1958058/elder-david-a-bednar-makes-a-ministry-stop-in-jordan/
@Ohhappydane33
DeleteFull quote for context from the Newsroom article:
"During the devotional, Elder Bednar encouraged attendees to study the Book of Mormon and learn how it applies to our lives today. “The Book of Mormon is not a book of history. The Book of Mormon is a book about the future.”
He continued, “It describes episodes in the lives of people thousands of years ago, but the writers of the record and especially the compilers of the record were inspired by the Lord to include the things that we would need for the world in which we live today.”"
https://news-middleeast.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/elder-bednar-ministers-in-amman-jordan
He's emphasizing that it is not simply a historical record, but rather written for our day. It's a reiteration of what many prophets and apostles have said of why we need to study it. It reminds me of what an institute teacher once taught me: "If you want to know what the world will be like before the Second Coming, study His First Coming as recorded in the Book of Mormon".
Thanks for bringing up that article about his visit to Jordan. It's great to see the travels and ministry visits of the apostles are gradually starting to occur again.
Yeah, that Mount Franklin stake center location looks plausible for one of these Helena-Casper-Elko sized temples. The El Paso Stake Center also has a ballpark in the back, leaving room for the stake center to be demolished and replaced on the site with a temple. I was also interested in that little chapel where the meetinghouse for the Anthony Spanish ward is. The land behind it is meant for an expansion, but I could see a small temple behind there. It's only 30 minutes from Las Cruses. It would technically be in New Mexico, but they didn't rename the Torreon temple after putting it in the state of Durango instead of Coahuila where Torreon is actually located.
ReplyDeleteI could see a day when there will be temples on both sides of the US-Mexican boarder like the situation in San Diego and Tijuana:
El Paso - Ciudad Juarez
McAllen - Reynosa
Yuma - Mexicali
Wouldn't it actually be Mexicali/Calexico?
DeleteWhat about temples in both Nogaleses? Or in Laredo and Nueva Laredo? OK, those are probably way far away. Laredo only recently got a stake, and I think Nogales, Mexico is in the Caborca District.
The problem with putting an El Paso, Texas Temple over the border is compounded by the temple having a state name in it. The Torreon Mexico Temple does not include the state name in the temple.
I know with the Indianapolis Indiana Temple at one point the Carmel, Indiana city council tried to convinced the Church to name it the Carmel Indiana Temple.
No temples in the US are outside their designated state except I guess Washington DC. So there is that.
About half, give or take, or temples are outside their designated city in the US.
Mesa and Oakland at one point would have been the top contenders for temples not named after the main regional city, but both are substantial cities.
Palmyra is probably too far from Rochester to have considered the other name.
Winter Quaters is the temple in the largest city not named for that city. It is within the city boundaries of Omaha.
No temple in Utah is not in the city for which it is named.
Chicago is the most populous city in the US without a temple in its boundaries. I would love to see a temple announced for that city, but am not holding my breath.
San Jose is the most populous city lacking a temple in its metro area, but Tampa is the most populous metro area without a temple.
The above is just in the US.
Many temples including at least four in Utah are named after a regional or geographic location in the vacinity of the city. For example Mount Timpanogos in American Fork, Oquirrh Mountain in South Jordan#2, Deseret Peak in Toole, Red Cliffs in St George#2, Jordan River in South Jordan). The Winter Quarters Nebraska is the historical name for that location in church history. We have the Columbia River temple in Washington, The Gila Valley temple in Arizona, The Feather River in California, Willamette Valley Oregon, and Star Valley Wyoming. Most other temples are named after the city they are in or the major metro city area they are part of or close to. Others such as Alabang Philippines is named after a neighborhood within the Manila metro to distinguish it from the Manila temple. Are there others? Lima Peru Los Olivos still includes Lima in the name ( I guess that counts for Jordon River Utah as well).
DeleteThat is why Nephi wrote the small plates and the big plates. The first 116 were more secular historically.
ReplyDeleteWhat would work best for a temple in Kansas? Wichita? Manhattan?
I expect Wichita. Topeka is not super far from Kansas City. I have to admit when the Kansas City metro temple was announced I expected it would be built in Kansas.
DeleteGarden City, Kansas could also be a contender for an isolated temple, but I expect Wichita first.
Although I wonder if Spingfield, Missouri might get a temple first. Although a central Missouri Temple is also a possibility.
A temple in Yuma? Wow, I had no idea. If Yuma gets a temple then I think every New England state and Canadian province should get a temple for sure. Maybe not PEI but definitely Newfoundland.
ReplyDeleteYuma actually has a stake. That is more than we can say for PEI or Newfoundland. A Yuma temple would also serve the Lake Havasu City Arizona stake and the El Centro California Imperial Valley stake, which means the same level of stakes as served by the Halifax Temple.
DeleteI do not think it would be a high priority. West Metro Phoenix, Queen Creek, Chinle, Arizona and Flagstaff at least and Bakersfield, Ventura County, Modesto and San Jose in California are all seemingly higher priority than a Yuma Temple just in Arizona and California.
I just remembered St. George holds the record time from 1st Temple dedicated in the city to 2nd temple announced. By over 90 years.
ReplyDeleteCanada has a record for time from 1st Temple dedicated until 2nd temple announced, although Switzerland may have just edged it out, and New Zealand is not much behind.
I am not even sure what country is next up to contended for the record. I think Samoa or French Polynesia or Sweden. Samoa probably, but I expect it to have a 2nd temple announced in well under the 28 years that would make it a contender.
Next year Switzerland will break Canada's record for time from 1st Temple dedicated until the second temple was dedicated.
Germany may currently hold the record for time from 1st Temple dedicated until there are 2 operating temples in the country. I am doubtful that DR Congo will break that record. Lubumbashi would need to be dedicated before 2025. The theoretical record on this for the US is actually 49 years, from Kirtlamd dedication to Logan dedication, 1835 to 1884.
Does the Pakistan service mission mean that Pakistan is no longer under the New Delhi mission?
ReplyDeleteI think this is what the Church planned when they were going to open a mission in Vietnam in the 1990s and even called a mission president, but then there was political opposition in Vietnam.
I wonder if there is a possibility that Pakustan will get a temple soon.
Much of the recent unit growth in Nigeria seems to be in Abia, Akwa Ibom and Rivers states.
ReplyDeleteI still think the next temple announced for Nigeria will be in Abuja. However I think a temple in close proximity to Aba Temple, under 100 miles if not well under, is also highly likely.
I noticed the branch in Martin's Cove was closed this month. I wonder though if this is a regular thing. As in the branch only operates at all during the summer months.
ReplyDeleteSomeone asked if a Martin's Cove Temple is a possibility.
While I know that Palmyra, Nauvoo and Winter Quarters Temples seem to set precedents, the only similar precedents would really be Sharon, Vermont and Harmony (Oakland Township), Pennsylvania.
Of those 3, I think Martin's Cove is the most isolated and is the most adjacent by Church structure to an existing temple.
Looking at things objectively, I think the most likely historic site temple is a Kirtland, Ohio Temple, most likely a new building. The next most likely is probably a Benbow Farm, England cited temple. Next after that is placing a temple in Tubuai, the first place the gospel was preached in a language other than English with large success. The next is Akwa Ibom, where the most shared baptism picture from Nigeria and maybe worldwide was taken.
I would not be shocked if Vermont is the last state to get a temple. Although Rhode Island and Delaware are also really unlikely to get temples any time soon.
Harmony Pennsylvania seems to be in the same area as Pittsburgh. Until more growth shows the need for two temples there, it may be a while. I would love for a temple on Sharon VT. I think a temple on or adjacent to the Joseph Smith birthplace would be neat. How far are the closest stakes and temples to Martin's Cove?
DeleteChris
DeleteThe area known as Harmony in Church history is now known as Susquehanna. It is near Scranton in northeast Pennsylvania not the Harmony near Pittsburg.
No, Harmony is not the same area as Pittsburgh, you are misidentified it. It is Northeast Pennsylvania on the New York border. You have identified Harmony in Butler County, that is not the priesthood restoration site. The priesthood restoration site is much further north and east.
DeletePueblo Colorado has historical significance from 1847, but Colorado Springs makes more logistical sense for the 9 or so stakes that it would serve.
ReplyDeleteA Rapid City South Dakota temple would cover a very large geographic area and probably include Gillette Wyoming stake with its many wards and branches that abut South Dakota, much of the panhandle of Nebraska, and nearly half of South Dakota. Chances are those two stakes could easily become 3 stakes, with the creation of a Black Hills stake that straddles Wyoming and South Dakota. Those saints have been faithfull through the years driving hundreds of miles across snow packed roads to serve in their assigned temple.
Modesto should be a short 1.5 hour drive to Rancho Cordova for the Sacramento temple.
Anthony or just west of UTEP would be a great location for a west Texas South New Mexico temple.
West Virginia is due for a temple... somewhere. Charleston perhaps.
And Bakersfield, north of the grapevine, 100+ miles south of Fresno... would be a great location.... for surrounding lications including Tehachapi, Mojave, and the lower Central Valley.
I think Colorado Springs is likely as well. The church owns a good chunck of land in the northern Colorado Springs area that I think would be for a Temple. Matt talked about this I believe.
DeleteI visited Colorado Springs this last weekend and I think it is the Colorado Springs north stake (the one that the lot of land is in I believe) had stake conference and Elder Anderson was there. Also there was an area training with multiple stakes on Saturday. I hope this indicates it is strongly being considered.
I talked to someone and they said some in the area are disappointed they have not got a Temple yet and even think Alamosa will get a Temple first. I think Alamosa would only serve two stakes so I don't see it happening, or Pueblo, before Colorado Springs.
I hope Elder Anderson visiting indicates the Springs getting a Temple soon, maybe in April. It reminded me of when Elder Bednar visited Casper and a few years later Casper was announced after the area was more prepared by following Elder Bednars challenges.
I really look forward to Rapid City getting a Temple and serving Gillette as well. I thought for a while Pierre would become a third stake that it would serve. It might be a few years but I look forward to it.
I agree West Virginia is due for a Temple. I think Charleston and Wichita are good contenders now. Also Des Moines, Longview TX/Bossier City LA, and Flagstaff. Really there are so many it is hard for me to guess anymore.
Does anyone think the lawn behind the Historic Cody Mural Chapel and Museum Meetinghouse be a good place for the Temple in Cody Wyoming? If so would there be space for parking? If not I guess we could build a garage below ground.
ReplyDeleteI was originally looking at that location. The City owns it and it is only 1.5 acres. I thought a temple could be fit on it and it would be a nice location but I also questioned parking. I suppose it is still a possibility.
DeleteSome locals are hoping more along the main road going into Yellowstone on the west end of town which would also be neat. I think either would work but I am now leaning away from the lot by the mural museum as I think it is to small.
Also looking at the trend with Elko and Casper and like temples, they are along main roads. So I think somewhere along highway 14 is a good possibility forthe Cody Temple.
There are at least 23 temples on lot sizes between 0.3-1.59 acres. So it could work
ReplyDeleteWow, I didn't realize there are that many on such a small area, it could work. The museum could maybe even double as a visitor center for the Temple. I think they would compliment eachother very well.
DeleteI think a lot of those all temple lots could be in areas in large cities that have public transportation negating the need for a lot of parking, but as I said before moving most parking below ground can solve this problem. I also thought that the museum would compliment the temple really well. It is still a working meetinghouse. Your idea that they could use some of it as visitors center for the Temple sounds really good. They could be other really great locations in and around Cody as well.
DeleteSome temple lot sizes are deceptively small though. Often they do not include adjacent meetibghouses and so some do not include all parking. Also several of those are ones in huge unban cities with no parking. While a garage in theory is possible, such things cost lots and also require approvals. I am less than sure Cody is open to people building parking garages at all.
DeleteI believe that the visit of three apostles to the British Isles indicates the preparation for one or two more temples in the region of Ireland, Scotland and England
ReplyDeleteI hope so. It would be wonderful for Scotland to get a Temple and England another, maybe Birmingham.
DeleteAn apostle (I was instructed to keep the apostle's identity private) recently indicated that the Church plans to have an additional 150 dedicated temples by 2026. This is apparently the current goal for the global Church. With 265 temples announced or dedicated, this means that there will be an additional 35 temples announced to reach 300, not to mention that there would be 318 total temples if 150 more are dedicated in five years. Thus, there will likely be as many as 100 new temples announced in the next five years given that it is likely there are some temples recently announced that will not be dedicated in five years (as well as other temples announced between now and 2026 that will not be dedicated by 2026).
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing this Matt. This is exciting news as so many new Temples over the next few years would bless so many saints.
DeleteAlso: it is said that the church anticipates 50-70 temples each in both China and India. Obviously lots of things must happen before the church is able to grow at natural rates in both places.
DeleteThis averages out to abot 10 per conference session. So it is probably safe to do a 10 new temples prediction at least now. This assumes they keep announcing most at conference.
Delete@Matt
ReplyDeleteI can corroborate what you say. My Book of Mormon professor at BYU was in a meeting with an apostle (I will likewise not reveal their identity) a week before conference. My professor told us "I won't tell you how many temples he said they are going to build, but I will tell you it is ALOT. Probably, more than any of you could imagine."
I was also just wondering, does anyone have any data in regard to the assumption that an apostle visiting an area is a sign of imminent temple building? The idea interests me, and I'm not entirely opposed to it, but I would like if someone could support this phenomena with evidence before I adopt it as another variable in my temple predicting algorithm, for lack of a better term.
ReplyDeleteThe only case I can remember now is Brasília. President Monson visited the city about two years before the temple was announced. President Nelson's ministry trip to Southeast Asia may be linked to Pnom Pehn and Bangkok announcements
DeleteI know there are lots of instances of apostles visiting a city/state/country a year or two before a temple is announced. I’m not sure whether this actually is a good indicator of where temples will be announced though, it could simply be that they travel so much and visit so many places. To really know whether or not that’s a reliable indicator you would have to figure out if the percent of places they visit that then get temples is disproportionate to the percent of places with members and no temple that them get temples. I’m sure answering that question could be done, but it would be a lot of work.
DeleteWell, I could site apostles visiting lots of areas that have no temple announced, so I can disprove it. The harder thing would be to see with announced temples how many apostolic visits were done soon before them.
DeleteAlso from February 2020 to August 2021 there were no apostolic travels outside the US yet many temples were announced. So it is not a big factor.
I am from Guatemala (Mazatenango stake) and in 2016 we got a visit from Elder Rasband to our stake. There is no a temple announcement to be built... the nearest temple is quetzaltenango (two hours away so we are good) but it is kind of interesting that it also came a member of the of the quorum of the seventy and a member of the presiding bishopric but they visited other stakes who were near to ours. We were the lucky ones who got elder rasband haha. Anyway this makes me think that maybe we failed the test?. But this is only one case so I'm also not sure if a visit of an apostle is a indicator of a future temple.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand maybe Elder Rasband did decide a temple was needed in Mazatenabgi, and it is on the list, but they are still backlogged.
DeleteThe Bengaluru Temple was announced several months before President Nelson visited India as part of his first major international travel as Prophet.
ReplyDeleteThe San Juan Temple was announced several months after President Nelson visited Puerto Rico.
The Dubai Temple was announced about a year after Elder Bednar visited the UAE.
The Singapore Temple was announced two years after President Nelson visited Singapore. During that particular trip, he encouraged the Saints there to prepare for a temple. President Hinckley proposed a temple back in 2000 when he visited.
I'm sure there are other examples, but those are ones I can think of off the top of my head. Of course, the timing doesn't necessarily mean that they specifically visited those areas for the purpose of scouting a site or assessing the area. As some have already said, there are many reasons behind the travels of the apostles (and I would say most of that is to visit and teach with Saints around the world), but it is a possibility worth considering in some cases that a visit may include the assessment of a potential future temple.
Bengaluru is a post visit. Presidebt Nelson also admitted it was a last minute addition.
DeleteI have hopes that Hyde Park Chapel will be partly made a temple like they did in Manhattan.
One other thought. Whenever a specific site is selected for a temple to be built on, that process does involve members of the First Presidency and Quorum of 12. Whether or not that happens in person on a visit or before or after a temple is announced seems to vary by temple.
ReplyDeleteI would love to know how many live and vicarious ordinances have been performed in each temple. Perhaps the Provo Temple by sheer numbers has done the most? Salt Lake has done tons and has always had robust traffic.
ReplyDeleteI wish we had access to numbers of baptisms, endowments, sealings, year by year, month by month, or even average by day of the week. Those numbers would influence some of us to go on those low days or months, or even make trips to lower functioning temples.
I would love to go to them all.
Not a bad goal but a hard one to achieve.
I would also postulate that if such information was made available to us we could increase our accuracy in our predictions quite a bit
ReplyDeleteAnyone know how many people it takes to operate a small temple? I know this changes based on sessions available each day, but even some ballpark figure.
ReplyDeleteNot all "small" temples are created equal. Detroit uses more temple workers than the Hague.
DeleteDetroit normally has 2 people in the office, a coordinator, at least 2 doing the endowment, 2 temple workers in the baptistry, another seared in the celestial room and one in the sealing room or something like 6 doing initiators. Plus a members of the presidency and a matron. The temple president did my marriage/sealing, using the dressing room as his office to give me advice because his office is also the bride's room. That comes to 10-15 per shift. I think we have 2 Saturday, Friday and Thursday morning and 4 evening shifts for a total of 8, and because of distance some temple workers only do every other week. So I think this comes to between 80 and 150. If you gave fewer sessions or more people covering multiple ones, the numbers can be lower.
Thank you for the reply.
Delete"President Ballard visits Scottish Parliament as part of weeklong trip to British Isles"
ReplyDeletehttps://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2021-10-27/president-ballard-visits-scottish-parliament-british-isles-elder-holland-elder-cook-231063
"Church Leaders Visit Egyptian Saints in Cairo"
https://news-middleeast.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/elder-funk-sister-bingham-minister-cairo-egypt
I wonder if either visit is scouting new potential sites?
Similar to my pre-conference inquiry about "Stuttgart Germany and Milan Italy" visits?
Well, I doubt Cairo is. The rare cases without a stake all had multiple districts, which Egypt lacks.
DeleteMy comment is unrelated to the discussion about future temples, but my sister just told me that the four stakes in Roy, Utah have been realigned into three stakes. Sad to hear this, but populations, even in the Church change.
ReplyDelete@Paul, upon investigating your post. It looks like from the 6 Roy Utah Stakes (Roy Utah- 503614, North - 504815, West - 510939, Central - 516872, South - 519200, and Midland - 365637). It was the Roy Utah Central Stake - 516872, that has been consolidated.
ReplyDeletehttps://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=41.175623,-112.028831&z=13&m=google.hybrid&layers=&q=Roy%20Utah%20Central%20Stake
Exciting updates on the Helena Montana Temple with the arrival of the prefabricated modules at a launching site not far from the temple site. If you haven't seen it, do yourself a favour and have a look at https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/helena-montana-temple/photographs/
ReplyDeleteRoy has traditionally struggled with low activity rates, especially on the east side (the west side, pretty much divided by the railroad tracks, has a much stronger membership base and greater population growth). I used to live on the east side of Roy, near the high school, and it was a nice neighborhood back then. I wouldn't necessarily say the same about it today anymore, at least by Utah standards. I see why families especially might consider a move farther out west, to Hooper or West Haven or Clinton, for example. Those are the places in Weber County that are growing like crazy still.
ReplyDeleteI believe if temple ordinance stats were released it would help us be more motivated to do more work. If Wednesdays were low, maybe go more of those days. And it would get us into Family Search more, doing more temple work and research.
ReplyDeleteYou can sort of see that data on business now, with the reservation system in place for many temples.
ReplyDeleteWhoa. Prefabicated pods artiving in Helena Montana.
ReplyDeletehttps://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/helena-montana-temple/
Elder Uchtdorf visited São Paulo in 2019 and strangely enough, used the subway (https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2019-03-04/the-little-moments-how-elder-uchtdorfs-ministry-in-brazil-made-an-unforgettable-impact-on-latter-day-saints-4336). Some people believe he was testing what the experience for members from distant areas was like, so he could make sure the city needed another temple. The temple was announced in October 2020.
ReplyDeleteAndre, it wouldn't surprise me if that previous trip by Elder Uchtdorf did test the need for a second Sao Paulo Temple.
DeleteBut above and beyond that, the Church News reported today that Elder Soares and his wife were wrapping up a ten-day assignment in their native Sao Paulo;
https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2021-11-02/elder-soares-young-adult-devotional-brazil-missionary-meeting-231778
Based on what you said about Elder Uchtdorf potentially determining a need for a second Sao Paulo Temple, and based on today's report about Elder Soares wrapping up a ten-day assignment there, I'm betting that preliminary details about the Sao Paulo East Brazil Temple could be officially announced later this week or early next week.
Luzon Island Philippines. There maybe 3 temples (1 operating and 2 Under Construction) on the island, but there is 86 stakes and 27 districts in the Manila Temple District- almost all on the island. The roughly 3 - 25,000 sf temples on the island may not support the demand of that very fast-growing area of the church. 4 of the 5 most densely populated cities in the world are located in the Manila metro. Luzon has a general population of more than 62 million people.
ReplyDeleteNorth Pole Alaska. While I do hear Fairbanks being stated every so often as a possibility, I think the other city with a stake center in the metro, North Pole Alaska may also take it. Although, from a physical standpoint, unlike most of Alaska, North Pole is well developed and contained between the river and its neighboring communities.
Buena Vista Virginia. This is home to Southern Virginia University (SVU) and a YSA stake. I find YSA college students are the least likely to have transportation. Other colleges with a large student population has their own.
Little Rock Arkansas. The Searcy Arkansas Stake center is located in Jacksonville, AR (Searcy building is only a ward building). Behind the chapel is a nice field. The Jacksonville Chapel is located on a gentle hill next to US-67 (Future Interstate 57) near the Little Rock Air Force Base exit. The current chapel is an older 1960s chapel built by members that couldn't afford much, built in several phases, and consequently, requires lots of upkeep. There's a former church ball field and additional forested area behind the chapel that could be used for a new chapel with a new temple in place of the current building next to the freeway. With 3 stakes in the area and 2.5-3 hours from Memphis Temple (located on the other side of Memphis), I definitely don't see this being announced next conference, but more like 10-20 year timeframe.
Cody was a surprise. I served in that mission. I still have friends there. Instead of simply splitting the Cody stake perhaps the 3 stakes in that part of Wyoming...Cody, Lovell and Worland, could be reorganized into 5 stakes. New stakes would likely be in Powell and Burlington. This is my speculation.
ReplyDeleteThe Billings temple will be left with 5 stakes depending on the temple district for Casper. The Sheridan stake will likely remain in the Billings Temple District. Billings will likely serve the 3 stakes in Billings, Miles City and Sheridan.
Riverton will likely be assigned to the Casper Temple district as it is much closer to Casper than it is to Cody. Casper will likely only serve 4 stakes initially. The two stakes in Casper, Riverton and Gillette.
The two stakes in Cheyenne and the Laramie Stake will likely remain in the Fort Collins temple district.
I expect the next temple in Wyoming will be announced for Evanston. It would serve the two stakes in Evanston plus the stakes in Rock Springs, Green River, Lyman and Kemmerer.
I still think Missoula is under consideration for a temple. The temple in Helena will be tiny. A temple in Missoula would still serve 4 stakes...Missoula, Frenchtown, Stevensville and Kalispell. That would still leave the tiny temple in Helena to serve 5 stakes: Helena, the 2 in Great Falls, plus Butte and Bozeman.