Brazil
The Church organized a new stake in Ceará State, Brazil on August 25th. The Fortaleza Brazil Lisboa Stake was organized from a division of the Fortaleza Brazil Bom Jardim Stake and the Caucaia Brazil Stake. The new stake includes the following five wards: the Jatobá, Lisboa 1st, Lisboa 2nd, Novo Araturi, and Nova Conquista Wards. The new stake is the Church's fourth new stake organized in Ceará State since 2015. There are now 17 stakes in Fortaleza - the second most stake in a metropolitan area after Sao Paulo.
There are now 275 stakes and 39 districts in Brazil
Guatemala
The Church organized a new stake in southern Guatemala on September 8th. The Santa Lucia Cotzumalguapa Guatemala Stake was organized from the Santa Lucia Cotzumalguapa Guatemala District (organized in 1994). Information on which of the nine branches in the former district have become wards remains unavailable. The Church in Guatemala has recently experienced accelerated growth through the creation of new stakes from both districts maturing into stakes and the division of large stakes. Nine new stake have been organized in Guatemala since 2015.
There are now 51 stakes and 13 districts in Guatemala.
The Philippines
The Church organized a new stake on Luzon on September 1st. The Iba Philippines Stake was organized from the Iba Philippines District (created in 1983). The new stake includes the following five wards and one branch: the Botolan, Iba, Liozon, Palauig, and San Agustin Wards, and the Bulawen Branch. The new stake is the Church's fourth new stake organized in the Philippines Olongapo Mission since 2017. Prior to that time, the mission had only one stake within its boundaries. The two remaining districts in the mission, headquartered in Dinalupihan and Santa Cruz, appear likely to become stakes within the near future based upon reports from local members.
There are now 114 stakes and 63 districts in the Philippines.
Texas
The Church organized a new stake in the Dallas/Fort Worth metropolitan area on August 25th. The Little Elm Texas Stake was created from the Frisco Texas Stake and the Frisco Texas Shawnee Trail Stake. The new stake includes the following seven wards: the Aubrey, Cross Roads, Frisco 6th, Little Elm 1st, Little Elm 2nd, Little Elm 3rd, and Oak Point Wards. The new stake is the Church's fifth new stake created in the Dallas/Forth Worth area since 2015.
There are now 76 stakes and two districts in Texas.
Utah
The Church organized a new stake in central Utah on August 25th. The Central Valley Utah Stake was created from the Monroe Utah Stake and the Richfield Utah East Stake. The new stake includes the following seven wards and one branch: the Annabella 1st, Annabella 2nd, Central Valley 1st, Central Valley 2nd, Richfield 1st, Richfield 11th, and Richfield 15th Wards, and the Central Valley 3rd Branch (Spanish). The new stake is the first new stake created in the Richfield area of Utah since 1977.
There are now 603 stakes and one district in Utah.
Nigeria
The Church organized a new district in Rivers State, Nigeria on August 18th. The Bori Nigeria District was created from a division of the Okrika Nigeria District. The new stake includes the following eight branches: the Asarama, Bori, Bori Nigeria District, Nortem, Sogho, Taabaa, Unyeada, and Zaakpo Branches. The Church has experienced rapid congregational growth in the Bori area during the past few years, and the creation of the new district appeared warranted as the original Okrika Nigeria District had 13 branches.
There are now 58 stakes and 19 districts in Nigeria.
What great news on each of new stakes and district! I an especially happy to hear of all the growth in Guatemala! 9 new stakes in 4 years! That is awesome! I hope outreach tip those inactive and new areas continue to produce more fruit!
ReplyDeleteThe Bo East District in Sierra Leone also became a stake today.
ReplyDeleteHow many stakes is that for Sierra Leone. I am hoping both Bo and Freetown have temples announced next month but at least Freetown.
DeleteThe Frisco Texas Shawnee Trail Stake was also renamed to the Prosper Texas Stake.
ReplyDeleteThe Lisbon Portugal Temple was scheduled to be dedicated today but I haven't seen a news release about it happening yet.
ReplyDeleteSometimes articles have been published late in the evening after a Temple dedication.
ReplyDeleteAn article about the devotionals on Saturday with Elder Andersen have been reported:
https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2019-09-14/churchs-past-present-and-future-in-portugal-is-focus-as-elder-andersen-prepares-to-dedicate-temple-in-lisbon-160377
Church News just published an article about the Lisbon Temple dedication today.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2019-09-15/portugal-lisbon-temple-neil-andersen-160450
A new Stake was created in Austin Texas today: http://centraltexaschurchofjesuschrist.org/index.php/2019/09/15/austin-texas-west-stake-created-from-two-others/
ReplyDeleteHey Matt,
ReplyDeleteSince it's Temple Prediction time again, I decided to follow your lead and do some numbers research, focusing on a county by county look into each of Utah's Counties and their Future Temple Prospects.
This is the first time I've done anything like this, so forgive me if my analysis is still pretty rough. However, it was fun to do and I hope to update the list every 6 months at conference time going forward.
I'd appreciate any feedback you are anyone who comments here has on my breakdowns, particularly on how I could improve the data.
Thanks :)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/go8r5twtdc438xn/Temple%20Predictions%20by%20Utah%20County%20-%20Oct%202019.docx?dl=0
Johnathan,
ReplyDeleteI read your analysis, and kept looking for total stakes per county (and then saw that you hope to add that). I think when you get that added that that will improve the analysis. Other than that it seems pretty good. The "largest city" field seems like a useful idea, though I hadn't thought of it. If I think of any suggestions I will let you know.
@twinnumerouno
DeleteI appreciate you reading the analysis and for your suggestion.
I was trying to think of the best way to figure out how many stakes each county has. I don't have access to CDOL, but I suppose I could just look them up one by one on Classic Maps and cross-reference those with the ones listed in each temple district on Rick Satterfield's site.
Any thoughts on a more efficient way?
Last Friday the Church released a document regarding FSY which included conference locations by coordinating council and showed what stakes were in each council. I found that in some cases, temple districts did not line up with what stakes were in a given coordinating council. Las Vegs may be one as I think Moapa Valley may go either way and another stake is known to be in the St. George temple district. All the Vegas/Henderson stakes and Tonopah are in the Vegas temple district, about 27 right now. The temple is a mid-80s design similar in size to Dallas.
ReplyDeleteDFW also may now have about that many takes, and include places like Denton, and other East Texas stakes, downto about Waco and north to near the Oklahoma line, three or four councils within DFW including some of these so the number of stakes is probably more. Haven't heard ho busy either is although Vegas will be impcte by the St. George closure.
Las Vegas is about twice as big as Dallas Temple. It was dedicated 1989. It may look like Dallas but is twice as big so half as likely to get a new temple there soon.
DeleteWhat happened to the Ruashi Democratic Republic of the Congo Stake?
ReplyDeleteChristopher Nicholson, according to Classic Lds maps it is still active. not sure why Rick took it off the churchtemples.org temple district list for Kinshasa D.R.C. temple last week.
ReplyDeleteThere is no land transport available from much of the DR Congo to Kinshasa. For this reason it may be that once the Harare Temple is complete Lumbumbashi will be assigned there. For the same reason Lumbumbashi is a strong candidate for a temple.
DeleteIn regards to the Ruashi DR Congo Stake, periodically in the past when a new temple has been dedicated, in the subsequent transfer of the relevant stakes to the new district, it is not uncommon for the Church templesm site to miss one in that process. If you send an e-mail to the webmaster to inquire about that, he's usually good at responding.
ReplyDeleteThat said, Jonathan Whiting, I enjoyed your analysis on temple districts in Utah, and I don't necessarily have any feedback other than to say "Great work". But I wanted to note that my list of potential locations within the current Utah Area wherein a new temple may be announced include, in order of priority: Herriman Utah; Evanston Wyoming or Preston Idaho; Heber City Utah; and a third temple for Washington County. I have based the rationale for the latter on a prior statement made by St. George native Elder Steven E. Snow that such a prospect wou8ld be needed, which he noted after confirming that with Elder Larry Y. Wilson, whom was serving at that time as the Executive Director of the Temple Department.
The one thing about which I am not sure is whether the Church would announce a temple in Herriman (which would almost certainly be built on the plot of land to which President Hinckley referred in the April 2005 General Conference) one General Conference after announcing another Salt Lake County Temple in Tooele. It could be that the Church will opt to hold off on announcing the Herriman temple until the one in the Tooele Valley is further along in the process. Hope these insights, such as they are, are helpful to all who read them.
I appreciate the feedback, James.
DeleteI forgot about the 3rd probable Washington County Temple until you mentioned it, so I went back in and made a small edit to the document to reflect that.
Jonathan Whiting, happy I could help with the reminder about a third Washington County Temple. As I have previously mentioned, my dad grew up in St. George, and one of his dad's teenage home teaching companions was Jeff Holland, now Elder Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. So Washington County holds a special place in my heart. My dad's family may also have connections to Elder Snow who mentioned that prospect and at least one of the current area seventies serving in Washington County, but I'd have to double-check that.
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ReplyDeleteThe last two conferences had a temple announced for Salta Argentina then Mendoza both in the current Cordoba Argentina temple district. As well as Cayagan Del Oro Philippines then Davao six months later, both from the current Cebu Philippines district.
DeleteL. Chris Jones, the two conferences to which you refer occurred last year. In last April's General Conference, there were no new temples announced for either Argentina or the Philippines. Hopefully that changes this go-round, though. The Saints in Bahia Blanca Argentina have reportedly been lobbying for a temple of their own, so we may see that prospect announced next month, and may find out if part of the time the Nelsons and Cooks spent in Argentina was used to assess that prospect.
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ReplyDeleteCould part of Lehi end up with Saratoga Springs. I think the west part of the city may be slightly closer or maybe on the halfway mark between Mount Timp and Saratoga Springs. I also wonder if some of the Orem stakes will be transferred back to mount Timp to ease the load of of Provo. But a Heber City Temple can take care of some of that too. (Heber City could take the Park City area as well taking a stake or two off from Salt Lake. Temples in Utah are not much anymore to bring temples closer to the members than to ease the load of already busy temples, although that may help a bit. I am excited more for remote area temples but very excited that the members use temples enough to require another temple in their areas around the world. We are starting to see the Utah trend of multiple temples in the same metropolitan area in more places around the world, such as Lima Peru, and Manila Philippines.
DeleteL. Chris Jones, unless things have changed, all stakes in Eagle Mountain, Lehi, and Saratoga Springs are expected to be reassigned to the new temple district. If that happens, it will cut the Mount Timpanogos Utah Temple district roughly in half, which might then lead to some or all of the stakes in Orem being transferred back to the Mount Timpanogos district.
DeleteI doubt Tooele will have any bearing on the prospect of Herriman. Those cover two very different areas and will take from two maybe three different temple districts (Salt Lake and Oquirrh Mountain and maybe Jordan River). Herriman being in the south west part of the valley. And Tooele towards the noth and west in the next valley over.
ReplyDeleteL Chris Jones, good point about Tooele and Herriman. What you said makes perfect sense. Thanks.
DeleteTexas was where I was born and raised. DFW has had more dynamic growth than other regions of the state (though Austin is picking up).
ReplyDeleteI can see three more temples in the medium term in Texas.
They would be:
Austin
Mc Allen / Reynosa TAM MX
Fort Worth
Bryan, thanks for your insights about Texas. Good to know.
DeleteI have never used Classic Maps, if it were my project I would probably start with the temple district lists and maps on Rick's temple site, comparing those to a state map for county borders. I would think this would be a bit faster and you would only have to look them up individually in cases where the stake is close to a county line. (You can't go by just the maps though, or at least sometimes you would have to zoom way in, for example, when a stake is right next to the temple as it is in Vernal.)
ReplyDelete@twinnumerouno
DeleteThat's an excellent idea.
One of the Draper stakes is in Utah county. I think beyond that it is pretty easy to determine which county stakes are in, but there are probably a few that cross county lines, and even some areas around Bear Lake and then Garrison and Gandi on the Nevada border that are in non-Utah stakes. This applies I think a little on the Wyoming border. It appears to apply with Arizona, but I am not sure there are enough people who live in the Utah area of the Payson Arizona stake to matter, and over by Kanab it is Utah stakes stretching into Arizona. I am not sure any stake transcends the Colorado border either way.
Delete@John Pack Lambert
DeleteThanks for the heads up on the Utah border stakes.
I still believe in a Morgan Temple, which could quite possibly have 10 stakes in its district and cover a reasonable chunk of the northern Wasatch Back. Coalville, for example, is about 33 miles (or a bit over a half-hour drive) from Heber, but only 22 miles (or a 20-minute drive) from Morgan. The Henefer wards are just through the canyon, so even closer. Morgan Valley in itself has three stakes. Huntsville would probably be assigned to Morgan, as well, and that stake is probably going to split within the next five years or so, bringing the district to 6 stakes headquartered in Utah.
ReplyDeleteThe two Evanston stakes and the stake in Lyman currently go to Ogden, and Morgan cuts about a half hour off the drive in each direction. They would obviously be assigned there. I also believe that Kemmerer might get assigned to Morgan, since the drive in good traffic and weather is only about an hour and a half, and much of it is over I-80 (which is very rarely closed in that section from Evanston to Echo, compared to the roads from Kemmerer to Afton). That drive is about an hour and 40 minutes in good weather, but again, those roads routinely close between November and April.
Next up would be Rock Springs and Green River. They will probably stay in Vernal, at least by assignment, but especially in the winter, I-80 is a much, much better place to be than trying to cross the High Uintas on US-191. My guess is that quite a few members would go to Morgan, as well.
Even without Green River and Rock Springs, that's 10 stakes. About the biggest realistic potential temple district that never seems to make it onto any map or prediction list. But mark my words, it's probably coming in the next few years, and it's my fourth highest Utah pick after Herriman, Heber and Price. And way ahead of places like Roy (which has seen virtually no growth of the Church in the last decade, and which is plagued with alarming rates of inactivity) and North Ogden which, no matter where you put the temple, would likely be within about 50 blocks - or a 10-minute drive of the existing Ogden Temple, which is relatively far north within the city as is.
Excellent info on Morgan County, Pascal. I shall add that info to the list!
DeleteI have to say I just don't see another temple for Wasatch County until after the effects of building a temple in Layton are fully seen unless temple attendance is bursting at the seems.
DeleteWasatch County (Heber City area) will not be affected by the Layton Utah Temple. I believe you are either referring to a temple in the Morgan area or the Wasatch Back in general. If speaking of the Morgan area, I would believe that to be true. I grew up in Layton and have family in the Morgan area. Though the mountains divide them, the people there often swing around the mountain into either Weber or Davis Counties.
DeleteWith growth models of Nigeria being so explosive in population overall, it is great to see the Church have a solid foothold and expansive footprint. For large centers of people, Ethiopia needs to improve in a non-Muslim Africa. I would like to see Church growth rates in Africa compared. Ivory Coast is probably the fastest.
ReplyDeleteActually Benin, Togo and Rwanda and Burundi have seen higher growth rates than Ivory Coast. However they have such smaller populations that the comparison is hard.
DeleteI think it is Sierra Leone where Church members form the largest percentage of the population. This despite it being a majority Muslim population.
I had friends who baptized a man while serving a mission in New York City who had been head of an organization if something like two million Muslims in Sierra Leone.
I have no idea if any of his former followers have joined the Church. Both Sierra Keone and Liberia a have seen multiple civil wars disrupt the growth of the Church there.
The thing is in most African countries the Church has no presence in most of the country. Nigeria is one of the few were the Church has stakes spread through rural villages and not just in urban centers. This is largely the result of the work of men like Anthony Obinna and thousands of other faithful Saints whose names we should remember who spent decades building the Church without having been baptized.
Yet of all the countries in West Africa that have stakes, Nigeria is also the country with the most of the country unreached. A quarter or more of the country has no Church presence at all, and even in a state like Abia where the 1st stake was organized in 1988 and a temple has operated for well over a decade in the last month the Church has been organizing branches in new villages and there are still places outside the boundary of any branch or ward. This is more a sign of how difficult transportation is in Nigeria.
A third of the country is under Sharia law and has violence from Boko Haram. Still this leaves another chunk of the country where the Church has only began to expand in the last decade or less. Places like Benue and Bori.
Porto Alegre's parking lot just got a major expansion according to Rick's temple site. I wonder if that mini temple will get an upgrade within the next few years?
ReplyDeleteJonathan Whiting, on your question about the likelihood of a renovation for the Porto Alegre Brazil Temple, it is in the same generation of Hinckley-era smaller temples of which many have had renovations in the last several years, so I wouldn't rule out the idea of a renovation for that Brazilian Temple. I like your line of reasoning there. Thanks again.
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ReplyDeleteThe Kolwezi DR Congo Stake will be created this Sunday.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHow likely is Olongopo to get a temple? We have temples being built for just 1 stake so this might lead to more temples in the Phillipines.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Puerta Princepesa could get a temple.
Tooele is not in Salt Lake County, it is in Tooele County. For this reason Utah County still has more temples if all announced are counted than Salt Lake County. That said Orem with 26 stakes is still a prime candidate for a temple.
ReplyDeleteJohn, there are now 6 stakes (3 each in Freetown and Bo) and 3 districts in Sierra Leone.
ReplyDeleteGood info on Nigeria. I have shared before: Having worked with a half dozen or so Igbo linguists, and most of them foresee Nigreria splitting north/south along religious lines. Like Sudan. We shall see.
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteI could be wrong, but I'm not sure that a temple in Wasatch county would have much of an impact in Ogden. (It would have no impact in Bountiful, the other temple that will be impacted by a temple in Layton.) It appears to me that the Wasatch county stakes currently go to Provo, the nearby Summit county stakes currently go to Salt Lake, and in looking at a map, I'm not sure Morgan county or the SW Wyoming stakes (which do go to Ogden) would actually be in a Heber City temple district, though they might find it easier to get there in winter, maybe. If a new temple was put in Morgan instead that would impact Ogden but I'm not sure how much that would be noticed there.
Whether Heber City is the next Utah temple is a separate question, but I don't think waiting on Layton would rule it out.
ReplyDeleteIf that is a concern we could also say we have to wait to see the impact on Salt Lake from the Tooele valley temple before taking away the two stakes in Summit county that would certainly go to Heber City. Would the Salt Lake temple be crippled by the loss of both Tooele and Park City? It seems unlikely but I suspect only Salt Lake temple workers would have an answer for that.
ReplyDeleteConsidering Park City has 1 stake losing Park City is a,non-issue. Even with the Kamas Stake we are not looking at big change. Having a brother in Tooele I know actual attendance is as likely at Oquirh Mountain and Jordan River as Salt Lake.
DeleteI have to wonder how much of SLC's attendance is being who come a long way to attend that historic temple.
Another thought that I have as someone who has mostly lived in small towns- city folk may laugh but many small town people dread the thought of trying to drive in city traffic. I'm sure there are plenty of people in these small towns who try to minimize their driving to Provo, Salt Lake and Ogden and would find a Heber City or Morgan temple much less intimidating. Add that to the winter weather/canyon driving issue and these small towns probably have a much lower temple attendance than they would with their own temple- which would be the main reason for putting a temple there.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of new Texas temples, don’t forget El Paso.
ReplyDeleteWe are in desperate need of a temple due to ongoing issues on the border with Mexico.
In August, we left the Ciudad Juárez Temple at 8:30 pm. It took us six hours to drive the 10 miles to our home in El Paso. We could have walked in in less time. Only two immigration officers were on duty that evening to clear miles of vehicles.
Hundreds of LDS military personnel stationed at Fort Bliss are prohibited from crossing the border for security reasons.
Other hundreds of Church members are too afraid to cross because of the high murder rate in CJ.
Part of our ward’s temple plan is to pray for an El Paso Temple. Some of us even send letters and post cards to Salt Lake to remind them of our need. “ Ask and ye shall receive.”
I have no sympathy for those who refuse to go to a temple for fear of the city where it is. The members in Ciudad Juarez have to live through murder all the time. Not trusting in the Lord is not a way to get a temple to your lication.
DeleteHowever 6 hour one way drives are enough to justify an additional temple.
JPL, you are entitled to your own opinion on anything said here, but when it comes to assessing the decisions of our fellow Saints, the words of the second verse of "Lord, I Would Follow Thee" seem to apply when it comes to assessing how others not in our personal situation feel about attending their assigned temple. Further, if the safety issue is the kind of concern that a determination has been made by local leaders on their congregations' temple attendance, that would align with updated safety guidelines issued last year by the First Presidency:
Deletehttps://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/callings/church-safety-and-health/first-presidency-letter?lang=eng
I'm inclined to believe that if I assert a judgement call about any aspect of anyone else's actions, decisions or attitudes that the Lord might hold me more personally guilty for such assessments than He would the person who made such determinations.
Unless we have walked the proverbial mile in someone else's shoes and truly and impartially look at their situations, we may be guilty of passing unrighteous judgement, which the scriptures warn against.
The "small town drivers" issue also impacts other temples, of course- but the difference is that in Utah there may actually be enough members in those small towns to support a temple.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand in California the trafficking levels are much worse. So I can see a Santa Rosa and a Bakersfield Temple to relive the trips to Oakland and LA. Those are not true small towns.
DeleteI wonder if this is a factor in the Feather River Temple. It might also justify a temple for south-east Washington to avoid having to go to Portland or Seatlle.
On the other hand Manhattan was justified even with plans for Harrison, New York because of difficulty leaving the inner city.
Would transportation issues support a San Francisco Temple, or can those without cars get to Oakland Temple well enough? I more wonder if just the level of traffic might justify a San Jose, California Temple.
While it was easier in the past to go over to Juarez, it was still not that good. There was a radio station, callsign XEROK 80 that had quite a story to tell as they had to tape the entire days programming in their offices on Viscount St., then ferry the taps to the transmitter shack in Juarez for broadcast the next day, deal with corrupt police, etc. This was about 40+ years back.
ReplyDeleteAs to stakes served I would include stakes bordering the El Paso and Las Cruces stakes, and the district centred near the I-10/20 split. Possibly six, but not sure exactly how many units there are.
My comments about a Weber County temple were in light of a potential Morgan, Utah Temple.
ReplyDeleteI meant to say Weber County in my above comment, not Wasatch County. Since Wasatch County does not have a temple, my comment did not make sense. I meant to say Weber, I was commenting on the consideration of a temple for Roy or North Ogden by another commentor.
I still want to see a temple in West Valley City. I think with Salt Lake Temple being able to provide the endowment in 60+ languages after the renovation there will be much more use of the temple by international travelers, which will make the need for another local temple higher.
Keep in mind that the 30 stakes per temple in Utah is the highest for any area.
@James (Regarding the Porto Alegre Brazil Temple):
ReplyDeleteThanks, James.
I think it will be interesting to see, once the current crop of renovations of the Hinckley-Era Temples are finished (Raleigh, Baton Rouge, Asuncion), to see which of that era will be next up for renovation, and to see if the Brethren decide to go with the same type of upgrade they did for Memphis, or experiment with different styles.
Jonathan Whiting: I know many of the smaller Hinckley-era temples have had interior and exterior upgrades. One exception to that appears to be the Asuncion Paraguay Temple, for which there was apparently not the same type of interior and exterior design overhaul.
DeleteAnd while it wouldn't shock me if the Church held off on announcing other temple renovations until the four for which a rededication has been set are removed from the queue, I wouldn't be surprised to see a renovation closure announced for one or more additional temples before the end of the year. Whether or not any such temples may actually close before the end of the year is a question that may be harder to answer. Thanks.
I have some additional things to say regarding my earlier comments about small town drivers and city driving. I will try to keep this as brief as possible- my first attempt at this post was too long to post as one comment.
ReplyDeleteFirst, JPL, I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, and I did not bring up what I said to justify people refusing to go to the temple. There are obviously many challenges that members have to overcome in our church, including to go to the temple. And there are many faithful members in any temple district who are committed to overcoming them and going as often as they can. This would include the challenge that driving can pose to people who don't like dealing with large amounts of traffic such as what cities can pose. (I am sure that there are various levels of discomfort on this matter, and some small town people for whom city driving is not a problem at all.)
I used to live in a city and had a work schedule that mostly avoided rush hour traffic. I enjoyed some elements of city life but found it a relief after several years to move to a smaller place. I do not have serious problems with occasionally going to Denver or Salt Lake but generally feel that I am glad to leave after a day or two. If I lived in Heber City I would probably keep my current plan to go once a month but would be less likely to increase that than I am now being near Vernal. (The other side of this is that driving long distances is also a challenge for me, as I tend to get drowsy unless I have both food and something to listen to such as a radio station I like. Where I live now is about 4 hours from both Provo and SLC so I typically don't go to either city more often than once every couple years, and Denver is 5-6 hours away, and I usually only go there to go to the airport.)
I was partly thinking of my mother who doesn't even like to drive in Vernal but can sometimes overcome that enough to drive to a store on the edge of the town- usually to a farm store because she wants something for her garden or her chickens. She usually gets a ride when she goes to the temple so she also manages to overcome her dislike of "city" driving in order to get to the temple. So that is also an option for those who have as much trouble with driving as she does. (Several years ago, she spent some time in St. George with my grandmother after my father died. She enjoyed her time there and was able to do a lot of things that were not available where we live- but eventually she started feeling that the traffic was just too much, and when she got back to the Uintah basin she said to herself- "I'm home.")
Here in Detroit we have the opposite problem or urban members (urbanism code for black) having well substantiated fears of overbearing policing in white suburbs, doubly so for super rich suburbs like Bloomfield Hills that create a barrier to temple attendance.
DeleteApart from my own experiences (and my knowledge of my mother), what I said was my own speculation about how people in small towns feel. I am not sure that it is a problem for many people.
ReplyDeleteI don't really think a temple would be built in a small town for the satisfaction of people who don't make an effort to get to the ones in the cities. I have been told (and believe it) that sufficient attendance at existing temples is a requirement for announcement of new temples, but I wonder if that is also true for these "remote city" temples being announced or anticipated and would guess they are likely to have many of their patrons be people who rarely if ever made it to their previously assigned temple.
I think that many people living in cities don't realize that people in small towns may think differently than them. In many areas of life, such as modern entertainment, etc., there seems to be a tendency toward cities. This is perhaps natural as the population has moved more into cities, and the people making movies and TV shows mostly live in cities. But there are still many people in towns and they and their perspective are frequently overlooked because of this move.
(That goes both ways, of course, many small town people don't understand the issues of city life too- but some do and have moved to smaller towns because they found the negative issues to be stronger than the positive ones. One former high counselor in my stake described having gang members hide in his backyard in a place near Sacramento, California while trying to hide from police, and having that be the impetus to leave there.)
As far as driving though, I think this is an area in which people adapt to their circumstances- those who drive in cities a lot get at least somewhat used to it, while those who don't may eventually get so they can't, or at least think like my mom that they can't. People who have lived their whole lives in cities, as in other circumstances in life, may sometimes judge everyone by their own experiences and I would suggest that this is true of the city/town divide. Whether it is a major factor in members' temple attendance is something I don't really know.
You raise a good point about the city/suburb divide also being real. I am guessing this is the reason that a couple of the newer temples in the eastern US have been built in cities rather than suburbs. Thank you for your comments; this sounds like it may actually be a greater challenge to overcome than the ones I was talking about. I am wondering how much those urban members have been able to overcome this issue. Are there solutions other than building a bunch more temples in the cities themselves?
ReplyDeleteIn NYC area city people use the subway so heavily that it is not all that clear it is any harder to get to a temple in Harrison, New York as in Belmont, Massachusetts. This is also why the Hartford, Temple is a thing even if the actual stake numbers migth not make it seem as pressing as a temple in NW Arkansas or Charlotte, North Carolina.
ReplyDeletePhiladephia clearly helps both the mid-town YUPI whites who don't have cars and some of whom object to cars on ideological grounds, although they could afford by money to go to a temple anywhere in Metro Philly with Uber and the like. On the other hand south Philly Cambodians, Hispanics and blacks and especially west Philly blacks it is not clear they could afford to got by Uber to a suburban temple, and that is assuming they have the tech and savvy to use Uber.
Notice even for mid-town whites I said "afford by money". The time cost is going to be a true clincher, especially if they are young married students, highly busy YSA professionals or possibly worst of all young married professionals with a few month old baby.
The last still will not make it ofen to the temple, but they would make it more.
I am also wondering how many out of town people on business trips to NYC and Philly make it to the temple.
There is also in both cases a symbolism of urban outreach epitomized by the temple. Still this is not a temple in Harlem, and Harlem today is not Harlem in 1984. When we get a temple in the Lower Bronx that will be the day. Here in Detroit we look forward with as much hope to the day when there is a temple on Temple St in Briggs. However Briggs is not the Briggs of 1984, when it was one of the most crime ridden parts of Detroit. It is so much no longer Briggs it has been recristened North Corktown. In 1991 Corktown was the only gentrifying area in Detroit, and North Corktown is trying to take that image.
North Corktown is also where the Detroit River Branch Chapel is. I am not sure even if they tore down the chapel and built a temple on the space it would work, although if they did a temple with no parking or a fully underground parking lot it might work. Still that is at 14th and Pine, and Temple is 2 or three blocks north of Pine, so I and others think it would be much cooler to have the temple on Temple.
Considering Detroit River Branch borders the stake where the Detroit Temple is, My vision for a Detroit City Center Temple on Temple is a little way off.
Much more likely is a Lansing Temple, which would have 4 stakes and a district leaving Detroit Temple with 5 stakes, although Bad Axe Branch might still go to Detroit over Lansing, while Howell and Chelsea Wards migth go to Lansing. It would probably shift the west end of Kalamazoo Stake into a Michigan Temple district.
I can see this being done, but there are lots of temple districts that would seem higher priority than the Michigan one. It is only 90 miles from Detroit to Lansing, but less distance from the Detroit Temple to Lansing.
Grand Rapids is also a believable temple site. However in Lansing the Church has enough land of the Instatitue building/mission office/Living center (one of a kind church owned apartments ajacent to a public university) to build a temple there. However that is technically in East Lansing, which would make the temple even closer to the Detroit one, actually it is in Meridian Township which is to the east of East Lansing, but the road it is on is the east boundary of East Lansing.
Grand Radips is a bigger city, but would probably take in even less of the Midland Stake, probably not taking in at least 1 ward and 2 branches from that stake. It might be a little more likely to take in South Bend Stake in Indiana, but I do not think it would make sense to assign any of the Valparaiso Indiana Stake to it.