Wow I'm really happy for the Philippines. Just in time, a friend of mine told me a new stake will be created in the Manila region, the creation of Mandaluyong Stake, a division from Makati Stake. There will be some reorganizations as well from nearby stakes (Pasay, Manila and Makati East Stake) to sustain Makati. It will be done on their Stake conference around May. So excited for the church growth.
I need to be a more enthusiastic member missionary like Elder Choi's father.
On another note, Elder Choi's son Sunbeam is an adjunct professor of piano performance at BYU and lives in Utah. I wonder how many Korean members have moved to the United States.
City insiders in Saratoga Springs have discussed this for years. The church owns many acres of land from former farming operations and general land holdings. Apparently there are future planning maps that show a "monument" plan on a hillside of church owned property. I don't know the precise location but I imagine many do.
We called all of them. Just got the city wrong on the Philippines temple but it will not be in the east as the current temple is near the Marikina Valley in Quezon City.
Yeah, I realized that a second Manila Temple has been discussed on this blog, But no one put it up as their top choice. I also realize that for us, it is largely a guessing game. Many places could receive temples, it just depends on timing and revelation.
Many were skeptical that Utah county would receive a 5th temple before Salt Lake county. But looking at the numbers, although Salt lake county has 173 stakes compared to Utah county's 157, Utah county has more wards (1388 verses 1276). So This likely indicates that there is more active members in Utah County than Salt Lake. Obviously Utah county has many more YSA wards, so this might tip the scales.
Also the Salt Lake Temple is hugely massive, so it requires a large temple district. The MTC also creates a lot of temple use that is by members not in non-reported units that tips the scale.
I am not sure how the temple use beyond the county balances out. I think Salt Lake County probably has more with Salt Lake Temple taking in not just Tooele but also Elko and I think Evanston Wyoming and Summitt County the other way. My guess is the next temple will be in Tooele and maybe take in Magna Staked as well but that Layton will be Utah's next temple.
My bet will be somewhere in Cauayan Mission. If I remember right my companion came from that mission and they are really trying their best to increase the stakes there for a potential temple. This is evident that year that 2 stakes from that mission divided, the Tugegarao and Santiago. Now the mission has 6 stakes and 4 districts. We may say it's quite near to Urdaneta but let's remember there's a mountain range in between :) That's what I think though. And another one in the southern tip, Bicol region.
I had several elders from Idaho in my mission, in the mid-90's. At least one of them was extremely confident that there would be a temple in Pocatello. (If I remember correctly, he felt it would be the next one built in Idaho- this when there were only 2 in the state.)
I also heard confident rumors of the Church's imminent plans to build temples in Cordoba Argentina (now completed) and in Milan Italy- which I suspect will not be for some time now that one is nearing completion in Rome.
Mutinlupa, Philippines is to the south of Manila, and should not effect Urdaneta, as opposed to if the proposed site was to the north. When I saw Greater Manila was announced, I immediately thought it would be to the south.
Tom, I highly doubt that Urdaneta will stop because of Manila #2. Manila covers 62 stakes and 46 districts, with sessions at roughly the same rate as places like Dallas and Seattle that have much bigger temples. The Philippines has a ton of members in the north who could staff 3 temples where now there is only 1.
Tom, here's my two cents on your question, based solely on looking at maps and not having any other knowledge.
I suppose it's possible that replacing the Urdaneta temple is the unspoken intent (although I would have thought it would have been stated as it was when the original Hartford project was suspended and replaced with the Boston and White Plains/Harrison NY sites). That is especially possible if the new temple is north of the city or, conversely, if the new temple is built to the south and takes most of the immediate Manila area. It appears that the immediate Manila area has significantly fewer stakes than, say, Lima Peru (I see about two dozen stakes in the immediate Manila area compared to 40+ in and near Lima). However, a look at the temple district map for Manila shows so many stakes spread all over northern Luzon- many a significant distance from Manila- that it seems like changing to another city near Urdaneta, such as Baguio, would be a better solution if Urdaneta is unworkable.
I am very interested in what others may think about this question.
We still may see a change from Urdenata, possibly in part helped by shifts in need caused by a new temple planned for Manila, but I am confident the Church will build a temple somewhere on Luzon well north of Metro Manila making Luzon the only island in the world Sith3 temples and the Phillipines the country in Asia with the most temples.
Urdaneta is on MacArthur Highway and I have heard anecdotal information that the original site was to be close to that or a paralleling road and south of town.
Like many places in the Asia region, the Philippines tolls its freeways, MacArthur Highway may be one of those, it feeds into the main road to Manila, the North Luzon Expressway, also tolled.
Also look on Youtube and regional Church sites for things about area plans and at times results, which may give an idea what has been going on, I understand that tithing was one of the emphases there last year, and the faithfulness in tithepaying is one of the factors needed for an areaa or region to get a temple.
My family donated land to the Church for a temple when they came asking in the late 1990s. It was deeded to the Church in 1998, when there were only two temples in Idaho. We have watched temples announced for Rexburg, Twin Falls, Meridian, and nearby Brigham City and Star Valley with no Pocatello announcement. The day has finally come. So excited!
in an Idaho newspaper last week, a ten acre parcel was mentioned as being annexed into the city limits of Pocatello. The writer theorized that parcel might be a location for a temple, since a temple would require city services. It that ten acre parcel, the same parcel that your family donated almost 20 years ago?
I had thought Saratoga Springs would get a new temple based on explosive growth there and Eagle Mountain, and the fact that Lehi is still pretty close to American Fork. Great news! Filipino growth is great to see. We really hope that the huge numbers of converts translates to retention and real traction as far as activity. Very cool. East Africa will be blessed yet.
To all who question, get on the bus, if you get on board the good Ship Zion you will be on the best ride possible. There is even room for Debbie Downers. Wah, wahhhh...☺
I guess the rumors were just confirmed. I had dinner back then last year in a member who's working in the Area Office. She said that a land will be/were purchased in Alabang (this is in Muntinlupa) for a 2nd temple. I didn't believe it at first, though quite make sense since every session I have in the temple, chairs will be added every time to accomodate the influx of temple goers. The South Manila Temple might serve the number of stakes and districts directly south of it (at least 10) plus the Bicol Region (which I'm not mistaken a minor candidate for a temple in Naga).
As for Urdaneta, I'm not sure when it will really start but I doubt it will be moved to, let's say Baguio. Baguio is literally atop the mountains and going there is quite dangerous, with spiral roads. Urdaneta is quite a strategic location since you'll go through it when you go north (including Baguio), that is if you're coming south.
And I think I can the fruit of the efforts of the leaders and Apostle who visited the Philippines when they emphasized member-missionary work and retention and reactivation. Our ward in Manila grew from 110 to 200+ attendance in 6 months. I'm sure hearing this news (and it seems a lot of them did already), members, especially in Manila will get really excited and will work hard to find those less-actives. Manila has lots of members, but lot's of inactives which is good I guess mean lots of potential to work on and will prepare the people greatly spiritually when the temple is finished.
What are the chances that the far north of Luzon will get a temple? On another note it seems announcing a new temple for an urban area with a temple that is used to capacity is now part of the plan. I wonder what the next such temple will be.
I never have up on my hold that the temple would be in Saratoga rather than in Lehi. There are currently 13 stakes in the Saratoga Springs/ Eagle Mountain area over 17 years time with 5 stakes very close to being able to split. That's not counting additional nearby stakes in Lehi that would be included. It's hard to say how many stakes there will be in the area once the temple gets completed and really how long that will be. I can easily see the temple built in a few places already owned by the church as current farmland. I am rooting for the farm just South of the Westlake High School. Though on the hill side near Wal-Mart would be more visable across the valley.
I was pleasantly shocked to hear the announcement before Layton. I did not expect it this soon. Of the temple is next to the high school it will be full every morning for youth baptisms.
I would say the new Manila temple is not replacing the delayed one Urdaneta. My reasoning is simple, the Urdaneta temple is listed in the official news release which also says thew temple will be the 4th in the Philippines.
I am qyite syrprised that Nicaragua and Nigeria did not get temples announced. A little surprised that Richmond Virginia didnt. Of the announced temples Pocotello and Saratoga Springs surprised me the least although I have to admit I expected Lehi but that general area. I was not surprised by Lehi and not much by Manilla 2. Least expected was Nairobi sine that country only has 2 stakes but Kiev had 0 when its temple was announced and still only has 1. The 5 stakes between Kenya and Uganda is what Haiti and Jamaica had when a temple was announced for Haiti and I think 1 more than what Thailand and Cambodia had when Bangkock Temple was announced. So I am not too surprised and considering that it is a lot further from Nairobi to Johannesburg than from Port-au-Price to Santo Domingo I am not surprised.
Another way to calculate this is to take how long it has been since the first stake was formed in an isolated region with at least 4 stakes without a temple.
Massimo de Feo who was called as a general authority a year ago has not yet spoken at grmeral conference. Have any other general authorities called then not spoken yet? I know at one time they had new general authorities speak at the conferences they were called at but now only new apostles speak the conferences they are called at. Has anyone else besides Elder de Feo ever gone more than 2 conferences before speaking?
First stake to first temple announced is 18 years for Haiti. 27 years for Italy but Italy looks like it will also be at least 10 years from announcement to dedication of the temple.
Paraguay saw 21 years. Some countries are much lower like Peru at 11 years amd a few are negative. However it was 14 years from when the first missionaries came to Peru until the first stake was organized as opposed to 8 years in Ivory Coast.
Dan Peterson has a thoughtful post about the decline in church growth and working to address it if possible: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2017/04/it-was-a-great-conference-but.html
He mentions this blog as "a very good resource" :)
It 15 years from the first stake in DR Congo until a temple is announced there. I wonder if we can predict other temple announcements using this formula. I hope we dont have to wait until 2028 for a temple announcement in Sierra Leone. Lumbumbashi is past due for a temple by these formulas as is Benin City but they probably dont work well moving beyond the first temple.
Cape Verde still is only a few years past its first stake. Kiribati is at 20 years but its 2 stakes make a temple unlikely until the 2 districts become stakes/ existing stakes split. Fiji had 17 years from first stake organized to first temple dedicated. It git a temple with 4 stakes only 1 of which was over 5 years old.
It was 7 years from thr first stake in Ghana until a temple was announced but the Freeze makes Ghana's history unique. The Church would have organized a stake in 1989 or early 1990 if not for the Freeze.
Madagascar got its first stake in 2000 but only has 2. More stakes in the capital or stakes elsewhere in the country will probably be needed before the Church announces a temple.
Since Mongolia got its first stake in 2009 a temple announced before 2024 seems a long shot. Although the Ghana plan would allow for such but I dont expect it before Mongolia has 4 stakes.
Nicaragua's oldest stake is 19 years old and the next oldest 1 is almost 17 so at least this analysis suggests a temple soon is highly likely. Of course DC had a stake for 34 years before the temlle was completed but that was in an eta of laarger temples among other factors.
Nigeria went 12 years from the first stake in Aba until a temple was announced, so low numbers are possible. Still the areas most affected by that model would probably bd India.
If by 2024 there are 11 stakes in India as Nigeria had in 2000 than I would not be surprised at it getting a temple announced. If the 3 hopefully 4 stakes are leveraged to have more missionaries serving in India we may see that many stakes 7 years hence.
Russia by this formula would not be expected to have a temple announced until 2026 at the earliest and if in Moscow this might depend on the Moscow stake becoming multiple stakes in about 2022 and beyond.
Singapore is at 22 years from first stake but I dont expect a temple unless it gets at least 2 more stakes or some stakes are formed in Malaysia bringing the total to at least 5. The Indonesian stakes might add at little but I would expect at least 4 between Malaysia and Singapore for a temple. Since Indonesia didnt get a stake until 2011 a temple might not be likely there until 2025 at the earliest.
On the local news at 10pm on Channel 8 in East Idaho, they interviewed the Pocatello Mayor, Brian Blad, who knew of the announcement for a week prior. He was asked how Pocatello was selected to have a temple. the News anchor said that when the temple department was going over a list of potential temple locations with President Monson, Pocatello was mentioned and President Monson said, "Stop, the saints in Pocatello are well prepared and they shall recieve a temple."
So this confirms what I think we all knew. The temple Department researches the best location for new temples, and then final word comes from the Prophet who receives the revelation. But it's still insightful get a glimpse of the process.
If if takes about six years from announcement to dedication. (3 years until groundbreaking and another 3 of construction). In order to get 200 temples by 2030 the 200th anniversary of the restoration, we would need 2-3 temples announced each year by 2024.
Elder De Feo is the only one who has not spoken from the group of 11 new Seventies called one year ago. However, I have found a couple of other instances where a new Seventy did not speak in General Conference until a year and a half after being sustained.
We now have 4 General Authority Seventies who would most likely serve until 2037, 20 years from now. In October Elder Zwick will most likely receive Emeritus status, after which all of the currently serving Seventies will have been serving 17 years or less. So we are seeing some variation over time of the ages of the men serving as General Authorities. Last year and this year have both given us a new youngest Seventy, with Elder Cordon last year and Elder Godoy this year both being 48 years old at the time of their calls.
We only had one woman leader speak at the general sessions this year. There were 9 General Authority Seventies, not including Presidency members, and usually it would only be 7 or 8, so I suspect they were trying to get in as many of last year's new Seventies as possible. Only 3 of the 9 Seventies who spoke were not new Seventies, and they had all last spoken 6 or more years ago (Elder Choi had been 7 1/2 years ago, in October 2009).
I am super-excited about these new temple announcements. Manila's second temple continues the trend started in Lima Peru last year. I would expect to see second temples for some other Latin American cities too, such as Mexico City, Buenos Aires, and Sao Paulo.
There a nine sisters in presidencies. If they speak twice in a 5-year call that is 18 times in 10 conferences. So, we should expect 2 sisters in 8 of those conferences and 1 sister in the other 2.
It seems that Manila will be the 2nd city outside the US to have 2 temples. Other cities that I think could have a 2nd temple, outside the US Mexico City, Mexico Sao Paulo, Brazil Buenos Aires, Argentina
Instead of a second temple for Mexico City I was thinking that the Ciudad de Puebla would be more likely. Also there is a big gap between Hermosillo and Colonia Juarez. Maybe Queretaro or Guanajuato would help some parts of the megalopolis of DF? Speaking of DF, was the District changed in name? Sao Paolo has Campinas, so I would hope for another Brazilian city farther away. Buenos Aires I think could defer to a more distant town like Rosario or Bahia Blanca, or some place way down south in remote Patagonia. ¿Quien sabe? Exciting times for the living and dead. I apologize for past rants and perhaps "bullying" through overzealous, non-sanctimonious language. That is not how I am in person and I should not become an ogre by getting provoked by trolls. Online or off. Prophesies come true, whether I interpret them coherently or not. Don't take my word for it, do the due diligence. It's the best.
Approximate Districts of the newly announced temples:
The Brasilia Brazil Temple is estimated to serve 16 stakes and 5 districts, taking in stakes and districts from Mato Grosso, Tocantins, Goias, Federal District, Northern Minas Gerais, and Southwestern Bahia. Campinas Brazil Temple -15 stakes, 4 districts; Recife Brazil Temple -1 stake, 1 district
The Greater Manila Philippines Temple (assuming a position in Mintinlupa) will serve at least 16 stakes and 8 districts in southern Luzon, NOT COUNTING neighboring islands, except for Catanduanes, Philippines.
The Nairobi Kenya Temple is expected to serve 5 stakes and 7 districts in East Africa, with a possibility of serving the southern Arabian Peninsula, being that Nairobi is closer to Abu Dhabi than Kyiv, the closest operating temple. The 2 stakes on the southern Arabian Peninsula are currently assigned to Frankfurt.
The Pocatello Idaho Temple is estimated to serve 21 stakes, including all of Blackfoot, the northernmost portion of the Logan Temple and the westernmost part of the Star Valley Temple. It is also possible for the Pocatello Temple to serve the Malad Idaho Stake.
The Saratoga Springs Utah Temple (to the north), could serve 21 stakes in Eagle Mountain, Saratoga Springs, and parts of Lehi south and west of I-15.
I will gain more specifics when I update my map, which is severely outdated at the moment.
I once spoke with a member who lives *in* Sao Paulo and it still takes him three hours to get to the temple due to traffic and the size of the city. So I think a second temple there is likely at some point.
Distrito Federal is now Ciudad de Mexico per a recent change in the Mexican Constitution to allow the Federal District to become its own state. But they call it Ciudad de Mexico so not as to confuse it with Estado de Mexico, the much larger state that surrounds the city on three sides.
You are quite right in that Mexico City will not receive a second temple soon. They aren´t even using the one they have now as the Aragon stake has NO temple workers assigned to the temple, a remarkable fact considering that the temple is in Aragon stake!
Between Hermosillo and Colonia Juarez is a bunch of mountains and very little settlements. You probably meant Hermosillo and Guadalajara as there are several cities with stakes in between those two cities. You have Guaymas (one stake), Obregon (three stakes), Mochis (2 stakes), Culiacan (3 stakes), Mazatlan (2 stakes) and Tepic (one stake) in there. Culiacan is in the center of there with a 12 hour one way trip to Hermosillo from there and slightly more to Guadalajara. Sinaloa State (where Culiacan is at) has seven stakes).
There is a huge gap in the north central part of the country between Mexico City, Monterrey, and Guadalajara. SLP/GTO/QRO is near the middle of that triangle and between those states there are 9 stakes plus 7 more in neighboring Hidalgo state. The area has had pretty consistent Church growth especially in Queretaro.
Puebla is a possibility too given that there are 7 stakes in Puebla´s metro area, plus an additional 7 stakes in the state and neighboring Tlaxcala, and a district in Izucar and soon to be district in San Salvador El Seco (April 16th is when it will be formed--for Matt). You could also send the Cuautla stakes there to avoid the Mexico City traffic especially if they decided to construct the temple in the southern Angelopolis district. So, three more stakes.
Torreon shouldn´t be overlooked either. 5 stakes in Torreon proper, 2 more in Durango, one in Cd Delicias Chihuahua (which would be closer than Juarez temple), 2 in Zacatecas, and a couple of districts. Fairly far from Monterrey which has been pretty busy.
Mexico City Temple is usually busy on the weekends but not so much during the week. Most that use the Mexico City Temple, come from the outlying stakes in Puebla, Tlaxcala, Hidalgo, Queretaro, and Guanajuato states. The distance of patron to temple is inversely proportional to the times said patron goes to the temple.
I have seen video of Sao Paulo traffic and most of the time you can go east-west on Dutra (BR-116) or Ayrton Senna (SP-070) in fairly good fashion with not too bad a traffic problem. Most of the backups are on Castelo Branco through and east of Osasco, while Raposo Tavares (SP-270 is nearly always a clean shot from Sorocaba and even going to it. Bittencourt is bad northeast of Mario Covas, and Mario Covas is worse on the west side. Some problems coming from the north on Anhanguera but clearer due to the additional lane put in on Bandeirantes up to where those two cross. But forget Marginal Tiete and Marginal Pinheiros, they are stacked up all the time. Anchieta is bad closer to Ayrton Senna but usually is clean. BR-381, which eventually goes to ?Belo Horizonte, is bad closer to Dutra where it becomes surface road. There are some smaller freeways that are akways stacked although at times Avenida Leste runs mostly clear
Will the new Rio temple make it easier for outer Sao Paulo stakes to go there? Traffic and size sounds pretty sizable. I am still waiting for India and Malaysia. And Papua New Guinea. And Freetown. The future looks bright. Southernmost and northern Chile still need temples. And African nations like Angola and Mozambique should get some in less than 10 years; Nigeria will get another. Good stuff.
Elder Choi had actually never spoken at a regular general session. His last time speaking was at Priesthood meeting, so this was his first time speaking in a regular general session.
Elder Costa has been a 70 since 1994 or for 23 years, and won't be 70 until 2019. Elder Maynes in the presidency of the 70 is at 20 years.
Looking ahead, Elder Teh could end up serving for 28 years as a 70. The age 70 rule is not always rigidly followed, a few get emeritized younger (such as Elder Gene R. Cook) and a few get emeritized older.
Actually right now Elder Coasa (Claudio R. M.) is the longest serving general authority 70.
Why are the Arabian Peninsula stakes assigned to Frankfurt as opposed to Kyiv? How easy would it be for members to travel from UAE and Bahrain to Kenya? It would seem to me that any travel to the temple would be by plane, so does anyone have a clue how the time/cost to these various locations compares.
Another factor is how far from the airport the temple is, and what options there are for transportation there. One reason why I don't expect a Cape Verde temple anytime soon is that the Lisbon Temple is being built close to the airport in a place that is easy to go from the airport to the temple by public transit.
Mission leadership in Uganda report that the new temple in Nairobi, Kenya will be easily accessible for many Ugandan members:
"It was quite ironic, as we were driving home from this small branch that sits on the border of Kenya, we heard the news that the Prophet announced a new temple to be built in Nairobi, Kenya. The news of this new temple spread like wildfire. There is so much excitement! People can easily cross the border into Kenya, and it's just an 8 hour bus ride to get there from Kampala. It's easily accessible to Ethiopia and Rwanda as well. There will be so many people who will be blessed to be able to attend this temple. It is something we have tried to prepare the saints for since we arrived, but we had no idea it would be a reality so soon!"
That means Kampala residents could go to the temple and home in one day if they pushed it and if not probably leave after work on a bus Friday, spent time at the temple Saturday and make it home in time for Church. The whole thing lends itself to large groups going together which should mean low cost. Or is the bus ride on regular international commercial routes which probably means much less cost than on a plane to South Africa. South Africa's undocumented immigration issues and the Xenophobic riots it has produced probably means a growing unwillingness to grant visas, especially the poor who are often the most humble and receptive of the truth which means getting members from Kenya and Uganda to the temple can be hard and as families maybe even harder.
Cool about Kenya, thanks. I would think Santiago de Chile is not a great case for a second temple yet. If another temple were to be announced in central Chile I would expect it to be for Vina del Mar or Valparaiso on the coast. Vinha (Portuguese spelling) has had its own mission since 1986 or so, I think, and it takes an hour or two to get there from Santiago, depending on the means of transport. I used to think the Chilean people were so blessed in great numbers as an LDS people. Not so much now, but if they can be at least as faithful as California Saints they will do all right. If I am wrong and the Santiago Temple is bustling like clockwork, who knows? Again as I have said lately, a second temple for the country is big, and more could do a lot of good further north and south, maybe Antofogasta and Puerto Montt. The distances are formidable. Which also makes it hard to sustain a temple because of a lack of concentration of core temple workers. But Concepcion is such a great thing, I wish it would have happened in the 1990s. And Punta Arenas might be good for a small temple. Southern Argentina or the extreme Chilean side, for sure.
It has been many years since we had only fewer than 2 sisters speak in conference.
I was only looking at time serving in the first quorum of 70, thanks for catching that. I did just find a case where someone in the Presidency of the 70 did not become Emeritus ntil he was 74.
I did well in regards to the sites I listed vs. those actually announced. I correctly identified Pocatello Idaho and Nairobi Kenya, felt that the Philippines and Utah County would get another temple (though I had the wrong city for both and could not have predicted the second for Manila; additionally, I was not too disappointed that my theory that Lehi would host the next Utah County temple proved wrong, as the temple will likely serve Saints from Lehi, Eagle Mountain, and Saratoga Springs), and I had mentioned in my temple predictions that the next Brazilian temple would be built in Brazil, though I personally thought that it would probably be next year before we saw that happen. That said, none of these sites were a surprise. And since I essentially got these site predictions 75% correct, give or take a few percent as a margin of error.
That said, I do believe that the announced second temple for Manila will not in any way affect plans to build one in Urdaneta. While Urdaneta has seen 6.5 years since its announcement with no progress, that is not uncommon. The record for the longest such period is 14 years or so. When the time is right, both temples will begin construction, though this second temple for Manila is way ahead of Urdaneta by virtue of having a probable site already identified.
I still believe that a Nicaraguan temple and a second for Nigeria is only a matter of time. With Managua, there has been a public proposal for the temple, and land has been purchased there for quite a while now. Once the appropriate conditions are met, both temples will happen, of that I have no doubt. It will just be a matter of time. But it could be that for both places, the Church might be holding the sites in reserve until they can gauge the effect those temples that have recently been announced for elsewhere in Africa and South America have on temple attendance in those areas.
John, while Massimo De Feo is the only GA Seventy to have been called last year that has not yet given his initial General Conference address, that is not uncommon by any means. The longest such period between a call to serve and a first General Conference address of late is two years, and Elder Kent F. Richards was the GA Seventy involved, as he was sustained in April 2009 but did not speak in General Conference for the first time until 2011. So it happens. And there does not seem to be much rhyme or reason behind which GA Seventies speak and when. After the initial talk, they seem to rotate every 5-6 years, but that is only a very general rule, and many factors affect that. That said, I believe we could very well see Elder De Feo and all the GA Seventies called this last conference speak in October. Time will tell.
Many temples are not in the city they are named after. Many are several miles outside of the city in a neighboring city or town. I think Saratoga springs is close enough to Lehi to count. That Temple is covering most of the same territory as a Lehi Temple would.
Every Utah Temple is in the city for which it is named. London Temple may be the furthest from its city. A good portion of the temples in the eastern US are not in their name cities. Manhattan, Philadelphia, Palmyra and Nauvoo may be the only ones that are.
And as I mentioned earlier, the Saratoga Springs Utah Temple is anticipated to accommodate stakes headquartered in SS, Eagle Mountain, and Lehi. Whether or not that will apply to all Lehi stakes has yet to be determined. For instance, I could see the argument for those wards in the Lehi YSA Stake that are not headquartered in those three cities to be retained for the Mount Timpanogos Utah Temple District. And, if all goes according to plan, the Saratoga Springs Utah Temple will split the American Fork one just about evenly in half.
In the meantime, I enjoyed reading the observations posted here about potential temple districts and about General Authority Seventies. GA Seventies' future speaking opportunities are the hardest of all the General Conference predictions I make. But that doesn't mean it's impossible to do so. Generally, they are on a rotation of speaking every 5-6 years. So from there, it's only a question of determining who has not done so within that time.
And GA Seventies are traditionally released at 70, though there are cases where such a release can happen sooner rather than later. Also, it used to be customary for GA Seventies assigned to the Second Quorum of the Seventy to serve for 5-7 years, but that was before the change came where no differentiation is made between the two Quorums. Technically, all GA Seventies are still members of a specific quorum, and for those called up until 2015, their quorum affiliation is still known. What is not known is to which quorum those sustained in the last two years belong. And there is no way to tell. When I asked the Church about that, someone told me that no one but the leading brethren of the Church know why this changed, but that there must have been a reason.
One other note about GA Seventies: While it is difficult to determine which new General Authority Seventies will give their initial addresses and when, there has been a general pattern. Elder De Feo was the one GA Seventy sustained in 2016 who stands somewhere in the middle of the range of ages for those called during that conference. And while the speaking order of GA Seventies is the greatest variable in making conference predictions, it is not hard to believe that we could see Elder De Feo and most, if not all, of the six called this go-round speak during the next conference. Time will tell.
And I would venture a guess that the First Presidency decided for this last conference that, with a change planned for the Relief Society Presidency, it would make more sense to have Sister Burton deliver her last address as RS General President during the Women's Meeting, and to then have Sister Jones, who has not had a chance to speak to us since being sustained in April of last year (though both of her counselors had, in the General Women's Meeting), give her response to the call here. I had personally anticipated that we would not hear from a member of the Young Women General Presidency, as we have had a representative from that presidency speak consecutively in each of the three General Conferences prior to this one. With the alternating pattern for women's auxiliaries, it would have been Sister Burton speaking along with Sister Jones in the other general session, but I can see why that did not happen this time.
Hope I didn't annoy or alienate anyone with this extensive post. Thanks for wading through it.
I have done extensive reading on the new temples, and, regarding the Saratoga Springs Temple, I know that it is anticipated to split the Mount Timpanogos Utah Temple roughly in half, and that it will most likely serve the Saints in Lehi, Saratoga Springs, and Eagle Mountain. What I am not sure of is how or if the Church might split the wards in the Lehi Utah YSA Stake between the two temples. To me, it would make the most sense for the YSA wards that are not in any of the three cities above to continue to be assigned to the Mount Timpanogos temple. Time will tell.
I am also very anxious to see the future developments that happen for temples worldwide in the coming years, including the official release of images for temples that are scheduled to be dedicated. I was overjoyed to see the photos of the Paris France Temple (in view of how connected I feel to it), and cannot wait to see how the other three temples look inside and out.
It is not unprecedented for stakes to be split between temples. The Kalamazoo Michigan stake is split between the Chicago and Detroit Temples. Toledo Ohio Stake is officially in the Columbus Temple district but we still get Ohio visitors at Detroit Temple. Also Windsor Ward in the London Ontario Stake is functionally in the Detroit Temple District.
Among recent exciting temple-related developments has been the report that the delays preventing the Urdaneta Philippines Temple from being constructed have ended. Some have speculated that a groundbreaking for the Urdaneta Temple might happen before the end of 2017, but it seems more likely that a groundbreaking will happen sometime next year. So this opens up the very real possibility that we could have two Filipino temples simultaneously under construction for the first time in Church history. Hope this information helps someone who reads it.
Awesome. I live on BrasÃlia and served a mission here. Picking the fruits.
ReplyDeleteAwesome. I live on BrasÃlia and served a mission here. Picking the fruits.
ReplyDeleteAwesome! What a great announcement! Interested to know about the greater Manilla area.
ReplyDeleteAnnouncement took down ldschurchtemples.com.
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ReplyDeleteWow I'm really happy for the Philippines. Just in time, a friend of mine told me a new stake will be created in the Manila region, the creation of Mandaluyong Stake, a division from Makati Stake. There will be some reorganizations as well from nearby stakes (Pasay, Manila and Makati East Stake) to sustain Makati. It will be done on their Stake conference around May. So excited for the church growth.
ReplyDeleteI need to be a more enthusiastic member missionary like Elder Choi's father.
ReplyDeleteOn another note, Elder Choi's son Sunbeam is an adjunct professor of piano performance at BYU and lives in Utah. I wonder how many Korean members have moved to the United States.
25 years ago, we had a Korean sunday school group in Yorktown, Va.
ReplyDeleteThis week in Mormons called the second temple in Manila. They predict Mantinlupa:
ReplyDeletehttp://thisweekinmormons.com/2017/03/mormon-temple-predictions-april-2017/?singlepage=1
City insiders in Saratoga Springs have discussed this for years. The church owns many acres of land from former farming operations and general land holdings. Apparently there are future planning maps that show a "monument" plan on a hillside of church owned property. I don't know the precise location but I imagine many do.
ReplyDeleteWe called all of them. Just got the city wrong on the Philippines temple but it will not be in the east as the current temple is near the Marikina Valley in Quezon City.
ReplyDeleteMuntinlupa Philippines makes sense for a temple in the greater Manilla area.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I realized that a second Manila Temple has been discussed on this blog, But no one put it up as their top choice. I also realize that for us, it is largely a guessing game. Many places could receive temples, it just depends on timing and revelation.
ReplyDeleteMany were skeptical that Utah county would receive a 5th temple before Salt Lake county. But looking at the numbers, although Salt lake county has 173 stakes compared to Utah county's 157, Utah county has more wards (1388 verses 1276). So This likely indicates that there is more active members in Utah County than Salt Lake. Obviously Utah county has many more YSA wards, so this might tip the scales.
http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/statistics/units/united-states/utah/?sort=wards
Also the Salt Lake Temple is hugely massive, so it requires a large temple district. The MTC also creates a lot of temple use that is by members not in non-reported units that tips the scale.
DeleteI am not sure how the temple use beyond the county balances out. I think Salt Lake County probably has more with Salt Lake Temple taking in not just Tooele but also Elko and I think Evanston Wyoming and Summitt County the other way. My guess is the next temple will be in Tooele and maybe take in Magna Staked as well but that Layton will be Utah's next temple.
My bet will be somewhere in Cauayan Mission. If I remember right my companion came from that mission and they are really trying their best to increase the stakes there for a potential temple. This is evident that year that 2 stakes from that mission divided, the Tugegarao and Santiago. Now the mission has 6 stakes and 4 districts. We may say it's quite near to Urdaneta but let's remember there's a mountain range in between :) That's what I think though. And another one in the southern tip, Bicol region.
DeleteCongratulations to TempleRick! (He lives in Pocatello)
ReplyDeleteI had several elders from Idaho in my mission, in the mid-90's. At least one of them was extremely confident that there would be a temple in Pocatello. (If I remember correctly, he felt it would be the next one built in Idaho- this when there were only 2 in the state.)
ReplyDeleteI also heard confident rumors of the Church's imminent plans to build temples in Cordoba Argentina (now completed) and in Milan Italy- which I suspect will not be for some time now that one is nearing completion in Rome.
Is the newly announced Philippines temples intended to replace the stalled urdaneta project?
ReplyDeleteMutinlupa, Philippines is to the south of Manila, and should not effect Urdaneta, as opposed to if the proposed site was to the north. When I saw Greater Manila was announced, I immediately thought it would be to the south.
ReplyDeleteTom, I highly doubt that Urdaneta will stop because of Manila #2. Manila covers 62 stakes and 46 districts, with sessions at roughly the same rate as places like Dallas and Seattle that have much bigger temples. The Philippines has a ton of members in the north who could staff 3 temples where now there is only 1.
ReplyDeleteTom, here's my two cents on your question, based solely on looking at maps and not having any other knowledge.
ReplyDeleteI suppose it's possible that replacing the Urdaneta temple is the unspoken intent (although I would have thought it would have been stated as it was when the original Hartford project was suspended and replaced with the Boston and White Plains/Harrison NY sites). That is especially possible if the new temple is north of the city or, conversely, if the new temple is built to the south and takes most of the immediate Manila area. It appears that the immediate Manila area has significantly fewer stakes than, say, Lima Peru (I see about two dozen stakes in the immediate Manila area compared to 40+ in and near Lima). However, a look at the temple district map for Manila shows so many stakes spread all over northern Luzon- many a significant distance from Manila- that it seems like changing to another city near Urdaneta, such as Baguio, would be a better solution if Urdaneta is unworkable.
I am very interested in what others may think about this question.
We still may see a change from Urdenata, possibly in part helped by shifts in need caused by a new temple planned for Manila, but I am confident the Church will build a temple somewhere on Luzon well north of Metro Manila making Luzon the only island in the world Sith3 temples and the Phillipines the country in Asia with the most temples.
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DeleteUrdaneta is on MacArthur Highway and I have heard anecdotal information that the original site was to be close to that or a paralleling road and south of town.
ReplyDeleteLike many places in the Asia region, the Philippines tolls its freeways, MacArthur Highway may be one of those, it feeds into the main road to Manila, the North Luzon Expressway, also tolled.
Also look on Youtube and regional Church sites for things about area plans and at times results, which may give an idea what has been going on, I understand that tithing was one of the emphases there last year, and the faithfulness in tithepaying is one of the factors needed for an areaa or region to get a temple.
My family donated land to the Church for a temple when they came asking in the late 1990s. It was deeded to the Church in 1998, when there were only two temples in Idaho. We have watched temples announced for Rexburg, Twin Falls, Meridian, and nearby Brigham City and Star Valley with no Pocatello announcement. The day has finally come. So excited!
ReplyDeleteThat's super exciting. I imagine we will have the most detailed construction photo progress page ever with this one.
DeleteI'm hanging out for the photos for Idaho Falls to be released. I can't wait to see the improvements.
in an Idaho newspaper last week, a ten acre parcel was mentioned as being annexed into the city limits of Pocatello. The writer theorized that parcel might be a location for a temple, since a temple would require city services. It that ten acre parcel, the same parcel that your family donated almost 20 years ago?
ReplyDeleteSomething else of interest to note:
ReplyDeleteApril 2015 yielded 3 temple announcements
April 2016 gave us 4 new temple announcements
April 2017 provided 5 new announcements.
In addition, each year added a temple to the African continents (Abidjan - 2015; Harare - 2016; Nairobi - 2017)
So next April 6 temples will be announced?
DeleteI had thought Saratoga Springs would get a new temple based on explosive growth there and Eagle Mountain, and the fact that Lehi is still pretty close to American Fork.
ReplyDeleteGreat news!
Filipino growth is great to see. We really hope that the huge numbers of converts translates to retention and real traction as far as activity. Very cool.
East Africa will be blessed yet.
To all who question, get on the bus, if you get on board the good Ship Zion you will be on the best ride possible.
There is even room for Debbie Downers. Wah, wahhhh...☺
I guess the rumors were just confirmed. I had dinner back then last year in a member who's working in the Area Office. She said that a land will be/were purchased in Alabang (this is in Muntinlupa) for a 2nd temple. I didn't believe it at first, though quite make sense since every session I have in the temple, chairs will be added every time to accomodate the influx of temple goers. The South Manila Temple might serve the number of stakes and districts directly south of it (at least 10) plus the Bicol Region (which I'm not mistaken a minor candidate for a temple in Naga).
ReplyDeleteAs for Urdaneta, I'm not sure when it will really start but I doubt it will be moved to, let's say Baguio. Baguio is literally atop the mountains and going there is quite dangerous, with spiral roads. Urdaneta is quite a strategic location since you'll go through it when you go north (including Baguio), that is if you're coming south.
And I think I can the fruit of the efforts of the leaders and Apostle who visited the Philippines when they emphasized member-missionary work and retention and reactivation. Our ward in Manila grew from 110 to 200+ attendance in 6 months. I'm sure hearing this news (and it seems a lot of them did already), members, especially in Manila will get really excited and will work hard to find those less-actives. Manila has lots of members, but lot's of inactives which is good I guess mean lots of potential to work on and will prepare the people greatly spiritually when the temple is finished.
What are the chances that the far north of Luzon will get a temple? On another note it seems announcing a new temple for an urban area with a temple that is used to capacity is now part of the plan. I wonder what the next such temple will be.
DeleteI never have up on my hold that the temple would be in Saratoga rather than in Lehi. There are currently 13 stakes in the Saratoga Springs/ Eagle Mountain area over 17 years time with 5 stakes very close to being able to split. That's not counting additional nearby stakes in Lehi that would be included. It's hard to say how many stakes there will be in the area once the temple gets completed and really how long that will be. I can easily see the temple built in a few places already owned by the church as current farmland. I am rooting for the farm just South of the Westlake High School. Though on the hill side near Wal-Mart would be more visable across the valley.
ReplyDeleteI was pleasantly shocked to hear the announcement before Layton. I did not expect it this soon. Of the temple is next to the high school it will be full every morning for youth baptisms.
I never gave up, not never have up. And if the temple not of the temple. Sometimes I hate the spell check.
DeleteI would say the new Manila temple is not replacing the delayed one Urdaneta. My reasoning is simple, the Urdaneta temple is listed in the official news release which also says thew temple will be the 4th in the Philippines.
ReplyDeleteI am qyite syrprised that Nicaragua and Nigeria did not get temples announced. A little surprised that Richmond Virginia didnt. Of the announced temples Pocotello and Saratoga Springs surprised me the least although I have to admit I expected Lehi but that general area. I was not surprised by Lehi and not much by Manilla 2. Least expected was Nairobi sine that country only has 2 stakes but Kiev had 0 when its temple was announced and still only has 1. The 5 stakes between Kenya and Uganda is what Haiti and Jamaica had when a temple was announced for Haiti and I think 1 more than what Thailand and Cambodia had when Bangkock Temple was announced. So I am not too surprised and considering that it is a lot further from Nairobi to Johannesburg than from Port-au-Price to Santo Domingo I am not surprised.
ReplyDeleteAnother way to calculate this is to take how long it has been since the first stake was formed in an isolated region with at least 4 stakes without a temple.
It seems that Saratoga Springs, being a few months shy of 20 years old is the youngest city to have a temple.
ReplyDeleteMassimo de Feo who was called as a general authority a year ago has not yet spoken at grmeral conference. Have any other general authorities called then not spoken yet? I know at one time they had new general authorities speak at the conferences they were called at but now only new apostles speak the conferences they are called at. Has anyone else besides Elder de Feo ever gone more than 2 conferences before speaking?
ReplyDeleteBoth Kenya and Zimbabwe have roughly 16 years from organization of 1st stake to announcement of 1st temple.
ReplyDeleteFirst stake to first temple announced is 18 years for Haiti. 27 years for Italy but Italy looks like it will also be at least 10 years from announcement to dedication of the temple.
ReplyDeleteIvory Coast saw 18 years from first stake to first temple announced.
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ReplyDeleteWould some western Lehi stakes be closer to Saratoga Springs than American Fork?
DeleteParaguay saw 21 years. Some countries are much lower like Peru at 11 years amd a few are negative. However it was 14 years from when the first missionaries came to Peru until the first stake was organized as opposed to 8 years in Ivory Coast.
ReplyDeleteDan Peterson has a thoughtful post about the decline in church growth and working to address it if possible: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2017/04/it-was-a-great-conference-but.html
ReplyDeleteHe mentions this blog as "a very good resource" :)
It 15 years from the first stake in DR Congo until a temple is announced there. I wonder if we can predict other temple announcements using this formula. I hope we dont have to wait until 2028 for a temple announcement in Sierra Leone. Lumbumbashi is past due for a temple by these formulas as is Benin City but they probably dont work well moving beyond the first temple.
ReplyDeleteCape Verde still is only a few years past its first stake. Kiribati is at 20 years but its 2 stakes make a temple unlikely until the 2 districts become stakes/ existing stakes split. Fiji had 17 years from first stake organized to first temple dedicated. It git a temple with 4 stakes only 1 of which was over 5 years old.
It was 7 years from thr first stake in Ghana until a temple was announced but the Freeze makes Ghana's history unique. The Church would have organized a stake in 1989 or early 1990 if not for the Freeze.
ReplyDeleteGuam got its first stake in 2010 so maybe a temple announced before 2025 is unlikely.
ReplyDeleteMadagascar got its first stake in 2000 but only has 2. More stakes in the capital or stakes elsewhere in the country will probably be needed before the Church announces a temple.
ReplyDeleteSince Mongolia got its first stake in 2009 a temple announced before 2024 seems a long shot. Although the Ghana plan would allow for such but I dont expect it before Mongolia has 4 stakes.
ReplyDeleteNicaragua's oldest stake is 19 years old and the next oldest 1 is almost 17 so at least this analysis suggests a temple soon is highly likely. Of course DC had a stake for 34 years before the temlle was completed but that was in an eta of laarger temples among other factors.
ReplyDeleteNigeria went 12 years from the first stake in Aba until a temple was announced, so low numbers are possible. Still the areas most affected by that model would probably bd India.
ReplyDeleteIf by 2024 there are 11 stakes in India as Nigeria had in 2000 than I would not be surprised at it getting a temple announced. If the 3 hopefully 4 stakes are leveraged to have more missionaries serving in India we may see that many stakes 7 years hence.
ReplyDeletePuerto Rico has had stakes continually operting for 20 years so it is Durbin the possible zone.
ReplyDeleteRussia by this formula would not be expected to have a temple announced until 2026 at the earliest and if in Moscow this might depend on the Moscow stake becoming multiple stakes in about 2022 and beyond.
ReplyDeleteSingapore is at 22 years from first stake but I dont expect a temple unless it gets at least 2 more stakes or some stakes are formed in Malaysia bringing the total to at least 5. The Indonesian stakes might add at little but I would expect at least 4 between Malaysia and Singapore for a temple. Since Indonesia didnt get a stake until 2011 a temple might not be likely there until 2025 at the earliest.
ReplyDeleteOn the local news at 10pm on Channel 8 in East Idaho, they interviewed the Pocatello Mayor, Brian Blad, who knew of the announcement for a week prior. He was asked how Pocatello was selected to have a temple. the News anchor said that when the temple department was going over a list of potential temple locations with President Monson, Pocatello was mentioned and President Monson said, "Stop, the saints in Pocatello are well prepared and they shall recieve a temple."
ReplyDeleteSo this confirms what I think we all knew. The temple Department researches the best location for new temples, and then final word comes from the Prophet who receives the revelation. But it's still insightful get a glimpse of the process.
If if takes about six years from announcement to dedication. (3 years until groundbreaking and another 3 of construction). In order to get 200 temples by 2030 the 200th anniversary of the restoration, we would need 2-3 temples announced each year by 2024.
ReplyDeleteThis is based on average time frame. Some temples may take more or less time to build.
DeleteElder De Feo is the only one who has not spoken from the group of 11 new Seventies called one year ago. However, I have found a couple of other instances where a new Seventy did not speak in General Conference until a year and a half after being sustained.
ReplyDeleteWe now have 4 General Authority Seventies who would most likely serve until 2037, 20 years from now. In October Elder Zwick will most likely receive Emeritus status, after which all of the currently serving Seventies will have been serving 17 years or less. So we are seeing some variation over time of the ages of the men serving as General Authorities. Last year and this year have both given us a new youngest Seventy, with Elder Cordon last year and Elder Godoy this year both being 48 years old at the time of their calls.
We only had one woman leader speak at the general sessions this year. There were 9 General Authority Seventies, not including Presidency members, and usually it would only be 7 or 8, so I suspect they were trying to get in as many of last year's new Seventies as possible. Only 3 of the 9 Seventies who spoke were not new Seventies, and they had all last spoken 6 or more years ago (Elder Choi had been 7 1/2 years ago, in October 2009).
I am super-excited about these new temple announcements. Manila's second temple continues the trend started in Lima Peru last year. I would expect to see second temples for some other Latin American cities too, such as Mexico City, Buenos Aires, and Sao Paulo.
There a nine sisters in presidencies. If they speak twice in a 5-year call that is 18 times in 10 conferences. So, we should expect 2 sisters in 8 of those conferences and 1 sister in the other 2.
ReplyDeleteIn other words, I don't think they determine the number of sisters speaking after the number of seventies, but rather before.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that Manila will be the 2nd city outside the US to have 2 temples. Other cities that I think could have a 2nd temple, outside the US
ReplyDeleteMexico City, Mexico
Sao Paulo, Brazil
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Instead of a second temple for Mexico City I was thinking that the Ciudad de Puebla would be more likely.
ReplyDeleteAlso there is a big gap between Hermosillo and Colonia Juarez.
Maybe Queretaro or Guanajuato would help some parts of the megalopolis of DF? Speaking of DF, was the District changed in name?
Sao Paolo has Campinas, so I would hope for another Brazilian city farther away.
Buenos Aires I think could defer to a more distant town like Rosario or Bahia Blanca, or some place way down south in remote Patagonia.
¿Quien sabe?
Exciting times for the living and dead.
I apologize for past rants and perhaps "bullying" through overzealous, non-sanctimonious language. That is not how I am in person and I should not become an ogre by getting provoked by trolls. Online or off.
Prophesies come true, whether I interpret them coherently or not.
Don't take my word for it, do the due diligence. It's the best.
Approximate Districts of the newly announced temples:
ReplyDeleteThe Brasilia Brazil Temple is estimated to serve 16 stakes and 5 districts, taking in stakes and districts from Mato Grosso, Tocantins, Goias, Federal District, Northern Minas Gerais, and Southwestern Bahia. Campinas Brazil Temple -15 stakes, 4 districts; Recife Brazil Temple -1 stake, 1 district
The Greater Manila Philippines Temple (assuming a position in Mintinlupa) will serve at least 16 stakes and 8 districts in southern Luzon, NOT COUNTING neighboring islands, except for Catanduanes, Philippines.
The Nairobi Kenya Temple is expected to serve 5 stakes and 7 districts in East Africa, with a possibility of serving the southern Arabian Peninsula, being that Nairobi is closer to Abu Dhabi than Kyiv, the closest operating temple. The 2 stakes on the southern Arabian Peninsula are currently assigned to Frankfurt.
The Pocatello Idaho Temple is estimated to serve 21 stakes, including all of Blackfoot, the northernmost portion of the Logan Temple and the westernmost part of the Star Valley Temple. It is also possible for the Pocatello Temple to serve the Malad Idaho Stake.
The Saratoga Springs Utah Temple (to the north), could serve 21 stakes in Eagle Mountain, Saratoga Springs, and parts of Lehi south and west of I-15.
I will gain more specifics when I update my map, which is severely outdated at the moment.
It also seems Africa has temples in all but one part:
ReplyDeleteSouth
Johannesburg
During
Central
Kinshasa
West
Ava
Accra
Abidjan
East
Harare
Zimbabwe
So far only North Africa has no temples, one day that area might though I know it would take a very long time
I once spoke with a member who lives *in* Sao Paulo and it still takes him three hours to get to the temple due to traffic and the size of the city. So I think a second temple there is likely at some point.
ReplyDeleteEduardo:
ReplyDeleteDistrito Federal is now Ciudad de Mexico per a recent change in the Mexican Constitution to allow the Federal District to become its own state. But they call it Ciudad de Mexico so not as to confuse it with Estado de Mexico, the much larger state that surrounds the city on three sides.
You are quite right in that Mexico City will not receive a second temple soon. They aren´t even using the one they have now as the Aragon stake has NO temple workers assigned to the temple, a remarkable fact considering that the temple is in Aragon stake!
Between Hermosillo and Colonia Juarez is a bunch of mountains and very little settlements. You probably meant Hermosillo and Guadalajara as there are several cities with stakes in between those two cities. You have Guaymas (one stake), Obregon (three stakes), Mochis (2 stakes), Culiacan (3 stakes), Mazatlan (2 stakes) and Tepic (one stake) in there. Culiacan is in the center of there with a 12 hour one way trip to Hermosillo from there and slightly more to Guadalajara. Sinaloa State (where Culiacan is at) has seven stakes).
There is a huge gap in the north central part of the country between Mexico City, Monterrey, and Guadalajara. SLP/GTO/QRO is near the middle of that triangle and between those states there are 9 stakes plus 7 more in neighboring Hidalgo state. The area has had pretty consistent Church growth especially in Queretaro.
Puebla is a possibility too given that there are 7 stakes in Puebla´s metro area, plus an additional 7 stakes in the state and neighboring Tlaxcala, and a district in Izucar and soon to be district in San Salvador El Seco (April 16th is when it will be formed--for Matt). You could also send the Cuautla stakes there to avoid the Mexico City traffic especially if they decided to construct the temple in the southern Angelopolis district. So, three more stakes.
Torreon shouldn´t be overlooked either. 5 stakes in Torreon proper, 2 more in Durango, one in Cd Delicias Chihuahua (which would be closer than Juarez temple), 2 in Zacatecas, and a couple of districts. Fairly far from Monterrey which has been pretty busy.
Mexico City Temple is usually busy on the weekends but not so much during the week. Most that use the Mexico City Temple, come from the outlying stakes in Puebla, Tlaxcala, Hidalgo, Queretaro, and Guanajuato states. The distance of patron to temple is inversely proportional to the times said patron goes to the temple.
I have seen video of Sao Paulo traffic and most of the time you can go east-west on Dutra (BR-116) or Ayrton Senna (SP-070) in fairly good fashion with not too bad a traffic problem. Most of the backups are on Castelo Branco through and east of Osasco, while Raposo Tavares (SP-270 is nearly always a clean shot from Sorocaba and even going to it. Bittencourt is bad northeast of Mario Covas, and Mario Covas is worse on the west side. Some problems coming from the north on Anhanguera but clearer due to the additional lane put in on Bandeirantes up to where those two cross. But forget Marginal Tiete and Marginal Pinheiros, they are stacked up all the time. Anchieta is bad closer to Ayrton Senna but usually is clean. BR-381, which eventually goes to ?Belo Horizonte, is bad closer to Dutra where it becomes surface road. There are some smaller freeways that are akways stacked although at times Avenida Leste runs mostly clear
ReplyDeleteWill the new Rio temple make it easier for outer Sao Paulo stakes to go there? Traffic and size sounds pretty sizable.
ReplyDeleteI am still waiting for India and Malaysia. And Papua New Guinea.
And Freetown.
The future looks bright.
Southernmost and northern Chile still need temples.
And African nations like Angola and Mozambique should get some in less than 10 years; Nigeria will get another.
Good stuff.
Is Santiago also a contender for a second temple?
ReplyDeleteElder Choi had actually never spoken at a regular general session. His last time speaking was at Priesthood meeting, so this was his first time speaking in a regular general session.
Elder Costa has been a 70 since 1994 or for 23 years, and won't be 70 until 2019. Elder Maynes in the presidency of the 70 is at 20 years.
Looking ahead, Elder Teh could end up serving for 28 years as a 70. The age 70 rule is not always rigidly followed, a few get emeritized younger (such as Elder Gene R. Cook) and a few get emeritized older.
Actually right now Elder Coasa (Claudio R. M.) is the longest serving general authority 70.
Why are the Arabian Peninsula stakes assigned to Frankfurt as opposed to Kyiv? How easy would it be for members to travel from UAE and Bahrain to Kenya? It would seem to me that any travel to the temple would be by plane, so does anyone have a clue how the time/cost to these various locations compares.
ReplyDeleteAnother factor is how far from the airport the temple is, and what options there are for transportation there. One reason why I don't expect a Cape Verde temple anytime soon is that the Lisbon Temple is being built close to the airport in a place that is easy to go from the airport to the temple by public transit.
Mission leadership in Uganda report that the new temple in Nairobi, Kenya will be easily accessible for many Ugandan members:
ReplyDelete"It was quite ironic, as we were driving home from this small branch that sits on the border of Kenya, we heard the news that the Prophet announced a new temple to be built in Nairobi, Kenya. The news of this new temple spread like wildfire. There is so much excitement! People can easily cross the border into Kenya, and it's just an 8 hour bus ride to get there from Kampala. It's easily accessible to Ethiopia and Rwanda as well. There will be so many people who will be blessed to be able to attend this temple. It is something we have tried to prepare the saints for since we arrived, but we had no idea it would be a reality so soon!"
That means Kampala residents could go to the temple and home in one day if they pushed it and if not probably leave after work on a bus Friday, spent time at the temple Saturday and make it home in time for Church. The whole thing lends itself to large groups going together which should mean low cost. Or is the bus ride on regular international commercial routes which probably means much less cost than on a plane to South Africa. South Africa's undocumented immigration issues and the Xenophobic riots it has produced probably means a growing unwillingness to grant visas, especially the poor who are often the most humble and receptive of the truth which means getting members from Kenya and Uganda to the temple can be hard and as families maybe even harder.
DeleteCool about Kenya, thanks.
ReplyDeleteI would think Santiago de Chile is not a great case for a second temple yet. If another temple were to be announced in central Chile I would expect it to be for Vina del Mar or Valparaiso on the coast. Vinha (Portuguese spelling) has had its own mission since 1986 or so, I think, and it takes an hour or two to get there from Santiago, depending on the means of transport.
I used to think the Chilean people were so blessed in great numbers as an LDS people. Not so much now, but if they can be at least as faithful as California Saints they will do all right.
If I am wrong and the Santiago Temple is bustling like clockwork, who knows?
Again as I have said lately, a second temple for the country is big, and more could do a lot of good further north and south, maybe Antofogasta and Puerto Montt. The distances are formidable. Which also makes it hard to sustain a temple because of a lack of concentration of core temple workers.
But Concepcion is such a great thing, I wish it would have happened in the 1990s.
And Punta Arenas might be good for a small temple. Southern Argentina or the extreme Chilean side, for sure.
It has been many years since we had only fewer than 2 sisters speak in conference.
ReplyDeleteI was only looking at time serving in the first quorum of 70, thanks for catching that. I did just find a case where someone in the Presidency of the 70 did not become Emeritus ntil he was 74.
I did well in regards to the sites I listed vs. those actually announced. I correctly identified Pocatello Idaho and Nairobi Kenya, felt that the Philippines and Utah County would get another temple (though I had the wrong city for both and could not have predicted the second for Manila; additionally, I was not too disappointed that my theory that Lehi would host the next Utah County temple proved wrong, as the temple will likely serve Saints from Lehi, Eagle Mountain, and Saratoga Springs), and I had mentioned in my temple predictions that the next Brazilian temple would be built in Brazil, though I personally thought that it would probably be next year before we saw that happen. That said, none of these sites were a surprise. And since I essentially got these site predictions 75% correct, give or take a few percent as a margin of error.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I do believe that the announced second temple for Manila will not in any way affect plans to build one in Urdaneta. While Urdaneta has seen 6.5 years since its announcement with no progress, that is not uncommon. The record for the longest such period is 14 years or so. When the time is right, both temples will begin construction, though this second temple for Manila is way ahead of Urdaneta by virtue of having a probable site already identified.
I still believe that a Nicaraguan temple and a second for Nigeria is only a matter of time. With Managua, there has been a public proposal for the temple, and land has been purchased there for quite a while now. Once the appropriate conditions are met, both temples will happen, of that I have no doubt. It will just be a matter of time. But it could be that for both places, the Church might be holding the sites in reserve until they can gauge the effect those temples that have recently been announced for elsewhere in Africa and South America have on temple attendance in those areas.
John, while Massimo De Feo is the only GA Seventy to have been called last year that has not yet given his initial General Conference address, that is not uncommon by any means. The longest such period between a call to serve and a first General Conference address of late is two years, and Elder Kent F. Richards was the GA Seventy involved, as he was sustained in April 2009 but did not speak in General Conference for the first time until 2011. So it happens. And there does not seem to be much rhyme or reason behind which GA Seventies speak and when. After the initial talk, they seem to rotate every 5-6 years, but that is only a very general rule, and many factors affect that. That said, I believe we could very well see Elder De Feo and all the GA Seventies called this last conference speak in October. Time will tell.
Many temples are not in the city they are named after. Many are several miles outside of the city in a neighboring city or town. I think Saratoga springs is close enough to Lehi to count. That Temple is covering most of the same territory as a Lehi Temple would.
DeleteEvery Utah Temple is in the city for which it is named. London Temple may be the furthest from its city. A good portion of the temples in the eastern US are not in their name cities. Manhattan, Philadelphia, Palmyra and Nauvoo may be the only ones that are.
DeleteAnd as I mentioned earlier, the Saratoga Springs Utah Temple is anticipated to accommodate stakes headquartered in SS, Eagle Mountain, and Lehi. Whether or not that will apply to all Lehi stakes has yet to be determined. For instance, I could see the argument for those wards in the Lehi YSA Stake that are not headquartered in those three cities to be retained for the Mount Timpanogos Utah Temple District. And, if all goes according to plan, the Saratoga Springs Utah Temple will split the American Fork one just about evenly in half.
ReplyDeleteIn the meantime, I enjoyed reading the observations posted here about potential temple districts and about General Authority Seventies. GA Seventies' future speaking opportunities are the hardest of all the General Conference predictions I make. But that doesn't mean it's impossible to do so. Generally, they are on a rotation of speaking every 5-6 years. So from there, it's only a question of determining who has not done so within that time.
And GA Seventies are traditionally released at 70, though there are cases where such a release can happen sooner rather than later. Also, it used to be customary for GA Seventies assigned to the Second Quorum of the Seventy to serve for 5-7 years, but that was before the change came where no differentiation is made between the two Quorums. Technically, all GA Seventies are still members of a specific quorum, and for those called up until 2015, their quorum affiliation is still known. What is not known is to which quorum those sustained in the last two years belong. And there is no way to tell. When I asked the Church about that, someone told me that no one but the leading brethren of the Church know why this changed, but that there must have been a reason.
One other note about GA Seventies: While it is difficult to determine which new General Authority Seventies will give their initial addresses and when, there has been a general pattern. Elder De Feo was the one GA Seventy sustained in 2016 who stands somewhere in the middle of the range of ages for those called during that conference. And while the speaking order of GA Seventies is the greatest variable in making conference predictions, it is not hard to believe that we could see Elder De Feo and most, if not all, of the six called this go-round speak during the next conference. Time will tell.
And I would venture a guess that the First Presidency decided for this last conference that, with a change planned for the Relief Society Presidency, it would make more sense to have Sister Burton deliver her last address as RS General President during the Women's Meeting, and to then have Sister Jones, who has not had a chance to speak to us since being sustained in April of last year (though both of her counselors had, in the General Women's Meeting), give her response to the call here. I had personally anticipated that we would not hear from a member of the Young Women General Presidency, as we have had a representative from that presidency speak consecutively in each of the three General Conferences prior to this one. With the alternating pattern for women's auxiliaries, it would have been Sister Burton speaking along with Sister Jones in the other general session, but I can see why that did not happen this time.
Hope I didn't annoy or alienate anyone with this extensive post. Thanks for wading through it.
I have done extensive reading on the new temples, and, regarding the Saratoga Springs Temple, I know that it is anticipated to split the Mount Timpanogos Utah Temple roughly in half, and that it will most likely serve the Saints in Lehi, Saratoga Springs, and Eagle Mountain. What I am not sure of is how or if the Church might split the wards in the Lehi Utah YSA Stake between the two temples. To me, it would make the most sense for the YSA wards that are not in any of the three cities above to continue to be assigned to the Mount Timpanogos temple. Time will tell.
ReplyDeleteI am also very anxious to see the future developments that happen for temples worldwide in the coming years, including the official release of images for temples that are scheduled to be dedicated. I was overjoyed to see the photos of the Paris France Temple (in view of how connected I feel to it), and cannot wait to see how the other three temples look inside and out.
With continued growth the boundaries of Lehi YSA stake may be adjusted before the Saratoga Springs Temple in complete.
DeleteIt is not unprecedented for stakes to be split between temples. The Kalamazoo Michigan stake is split between the Chicago and Detroit Temples. Toledo Ohio Stake is officially in the Columbus Temple district but we still get Ohio visitors at Detroit Temple. Also Windsor Ward in the London Ontario Stake is functionally in the Detroit Temple District.
ReplyDeleteActually, I believe the Palmyra temple is in Manchester and the parking lot is in Palmyra :-)
ReplyDeleteAmong recent exciting temple-related developments has been the report that the delays preventing the Urdaneta Philippines Temple from being constructed have ended. Some have speculated that a groundbreaking for the Urdaneta Temple might happen before the end of 2017, but it seems more likely that a groundbreaking will happen sometime next year. So this opens up the very real possibility that we could have two Filipino temples simultaneously under construction for the first time in Church history. Hope this information helps someone who reads it.
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