Matt, I hate to be that person who questions everything. But in your July Newsletter, you state that the location of Richards Bay, South Africa was recently closed. But looking at the Meetinghouse Locator map, I still am able to see the "Richards Bay South Africa District (550558)" which includes also the Richards Bay Branch (147338).
Question for everyone. With the Davao Temple, in all likelihood, being completed way in advance of the Temple in Cagayan De Oro, what would you say the likelihood of all of Mindanao being assigned to Davao might be, as opposed to Cebu maintaining responsibility for some of the locations on the island.
To help form an opinion, by my count, there are currently 29 Stakes or Districts on Mindanao and the Davao temple is expected to be around 18, 450 square feet.
And on a related note, what do you all see as the likelihood of a third temple on Mindanao to possibly serve the western portions of the island. And if one is ever announced, where might that be?
Craig - I find it hard to see a third temple announced for Mindanao any time soon. Zamboanga would seem like a logical choice in terms of distance, but there is only one stake in the city and no new wards or branches have been created in the city in at least 20 years. For those interested, there is a unique Creole language spoken in Zamboanga called Chavacano. General Santos is supposed to get a second stake sometime in the near future, but it is pretty close to Davao, so I don't think it is a serious contender for a temple announcement.
It was an interesting episode. The Ward Radio crew is a lot of fun! I think you should go on their show, and I hope that at some point Ward Radio gets into the temple prediction game we participate in every 6 months
The growth trends in Benin and Kenya are also quite positive.
I am hoping soon that Kenya will have a 4th stake, this one not in Nairobi.
I think these trends make a temple in Kampala likely.
I also think a temple in Cotonou is quite possible. I suspect Lome, Togo will get a temple announced first, but that Cotonou will be announced before Lome us complete, and maybe even before it sees a Groundbreaking.
Today marks the first triple temple dedication in Church history! The Brasilia Brazil temple was dedicated a few hours ago, the Bentonville Arkansas temple is about to start the second dedicatory session, and the Moses Lake Washington temple appears to be in between sessions right now. For details, see the following: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/triple-temple-dedications-a-first-for-church-of-jesus-christ
I thought that the districts of Montes Claros and Patos de Minas in Minas Gerais and the State of Mato Grosso would become part of the Brasília temple district. This is not so relevant when we remember that Belo Horizonte is already under construction, but the only justification for MT remaining with Campinas must be the condition of the roads...
I guess it was wishful thinking on my part so soon after a historic triple temple dedication just the day before, to see a post in the Newsroom and subsequently the Church News site, for the First Presidency to announce any future Groundbreaking dates or next Dedications after January. or Locations or Artists drawings of any of the 50 or so still in the backed up queue. With several more most like to be announced in just 2 short weeks.
Despite the many legal appeals (6 so far, I believe) and the vehement community backlash, the government of Cody, Wyoming has finally issued a building permit for the temple there: https://mybighornbasin.com/city-of-cody-issues-building-permit-for-lds-temple-construction/ Honestly, I have mixed feelings. This temple will obviously be a great boon to the members in Cody and surrounding environs, but I think the Church could have done a better job at understanding the opposition. The church has remodeled plans and adjusted temple locations to meet community needs for so many temples over the years, such as in Tooele Valley (now Deseret Peak), Tucson, Newport Beach, Tegucigalpa Honduras, Monterrey Mexico, etc that I find it difficult to understand why such a move couldn't happen here. My best guess is that they wanted this location in particular because it was donated by a local member and it would be an enormous hassle to choose a different spot, but I'm not sure. Hopefully the vitriolic atmosphere surrounding the church in Cody will start to subside now
The triple dedication could be the big news for this week, but it's possible that something could be announced tomorrow as well, so I wouldn't give up hope entirely. We also have VIP tours kicking off for the Okinawa Japan Temple on Thursday, with media tours Friday and the public open house begins on Friday, so if nothing is announced tomorrow, we'll at least get coverage on the Okinawa Japan Temple opening.
I also learned that the Church reportedly was holding off on announcing the opening arrangements for the Red Cliffs Utah Temple to not detract focus from St. George's open house. So we could potentially hear about other temple dedications before the arrangements for Red Cliffs are announced.
My dad is a St. George native (young Jeff Holland was my grandfather's home teaching companion) so my parents made a flying trip yesterday to St. George for the open house.
Religlang, the article explicitly states that the Church said that either relocating the temple or altering the plans at this stage would be costly, and therefore, would inconvenience the Church. The article also says that the public had numerous opportunities to voice opposition at various stages of the approvals process,and that objections weren't raised by the community until the project was almost approved. Why should the Church have to relocate or redesign the temple when confronted with eleventh-hour objections? The residents had multiple opportunities to voice opposition and chose not to until approvals were about to be granted. That's on them. It shouldn't be up to the Church to make concessions when late-stage objections are raised. The Church has been more than transparent and invited public comments repeatedly before the approvals were granted. If people didn't raise timely objections, that's on them, not something the Church should be expected to accommodate.
James, I've been following this story since May of this year when I learned about the church's first community meeting explaining the temple project planned for May 24 - later rescheduled to June 6 (the official site and rendering plans were announced only 2 months earlier on March 13). As far as I can tell, the main group opposing the current temple location, Preserve Our Cody Neighborhoods, was created on May 13, and has been extremely vocal online and in their community meetings ever since - nearly a month before the first opportunity for the public to voice their concerns about the temple to church officials. That doesn't sound like waiting till the last minute to me.
What's different with the Cody Temple compared to the other temples you mentioned, is that Cody Temple is being built on a modular format, with all the modules already built, already shipped to Cody, waiting to be assembled. So the Church at this point, changing design, layout, or location would be pretty costly for the Church.
OC Surfer, I wondered by your comment why the church would have invested so much in construction if a permit wasn't granted. But the news article shown in the link above explains that it was already approved.
"Due to current city code, the Cody City Council doesn’t have the authority to overturn decisions made by the Planning, Zoning, and Adjustment Board to approve a conditional use permit or the site plan for the proposed temple."
I've been following this since the site was announced and have read every source I can get my hands on. I never weigh in on any issue here or elsewhere unless I've done my research on the relevant matters. I stand by my previous assessment. If your research has led you to a different conclusion, that's your prerogative. I'm more than willing to agree to disagree on this. I'm just grateful things may finally be able to move forward on the Cody Wyoming Temple. It is one of many groundbreakings I hope to see in the next calendar year or sooner
Fair enough, I can get behind that. Regardless of everything, I definitely am excited for construction of the temple there to get started soon. I would like to apologize if the tone of my previous comment was too combative, that was not my intent.
No worries. I didn't take your comments as combative at all. My current personal situation has given me plenty of time each day to keep myself well informed on issues discussed both here and on my own blog As a relatively new commenter to the discussions here, you had no way of knowing that. I always appreciate your contributions to the discussions here.
The article also states that the Church made modifications to the Cody Temple's lighting plan before the permit was issued, so it looks like they were at least trying to make what accommodations were feasible in the situation.
I have an active member friend in nearby Lovell WY who says not to count on a long temple open house, or a productive one, in Cody. The church may try to pull out the red carpet to heal the wounds but he doesn't expect it to work. Given his "boots on the ground" perspective, I wonder what the long-term effects are of the back-and-forth on this temple. Most of the news focused on the back-and-forth about the legality of the church's actions and threats of lawsuits, but beyond that there is a real cost.
My friend felt like there were two major misconceptions from the news being reported on the issue:
1. That the community was passionately divided on the issue. They are divided, but not as passionately as the vocal minority. He said most people he knew were on the Preserve Cody side of the issue, among them even members and himself, but that most weren't passionate enough to do much about it. But he feels everyone will remember this whole event for years and it will have a chilling effect on missionary efforts.
2. For those who haven't been there, he says it's hard to describe with words just how out of place this temple will look given how small Cody is and the natural topography around it. He loves the look of the temples generally but thinks it will be an eyesore among those who chose to live in Wyoming, including those in Cody, to be closer to natural beauty and not opulent grandiosity. He said the locals are already a little perturbed as is by well-to-do homesteaders who decide to move from California and Utah to Wyoming. I'm not saying any of these perspectives are right or wrong - just that they "are." He says that church members often see inherent beauty in temples because of their personal belief in the ordinances that happen therein, but members forget that non-members don't see temples through that lens. They aren't convinced that property values will go up near the temple, nor do they see it as a symbol of peace, and in fact may detract from peace if it obstructs views of nature.
In the future, as the church expands into more remote areas and attempts modular construction, it may need to consider the costs of such an approach on the sentiment of locals towards the church. I'm not creative enough to know what a temple that fits the Wyoming aesthetic looks like, but at the very least it would involve turning out the lights at dusk (night lighting is horrible for wildlife, so this should happen everywhere, but in particular in rural areas). Perhaps it would include selecting land that allows the church to build a large natural screen of trees all around the temple, placed in berms around the temple, allowing the temple to be secluded but within city limits, with public walking trails through the natural areas to enhance the peace-giving utility to the public. I see Cody as a sunk cost but it will be interesting to see how the Church responds to try to prevent issues like this going forward.
I am looking forward to many more temples being built. For the work of God to move forward strongly and with power we need many more temples than exist now.
The people attacking the temple are largely not doing it for different reasons. The operates of the website on the matter blocked defenders of the temple, but allowed attackers. This included people hatefully trying to use events from over 160 years ago to fan flames of hate.
Many basically argue the temple should not be allowed anywhere in Cody. They also just plain lie about how visible the temple will be. The complaints about it are a bunch of hyperbole. The impact is exaggerated.
Beyond this, many of the calls are basically for imposing new and special rules against the temple that were never imposed on others.
I have seem other attacks on buildings motivated by bigotry, including the attack on building the mosque in Sterling Heights. This set of attacks has all the marks of bigoted attacks.
I really am hoping we see temples announced for Kampala, Cape Coast and Bo. Yamosoukro, Abuja and Port Harcourt I hope for but have less hope for. I know no temple has ever been announced for a country where there was a planned but not an operating temple, well not other than the US, but President Nelson has been trying to move temples forward in New ways. This will require much faster building of temples, including announcing dome before earlier ones are complete.
The only thing I will add is that I witnessed a similar situation when they were building the Phoenix temple near my then home. A couple of members in the community got quite a few people riled up. Many of whom belonged to CCV (a well attended protestant church in Maricopa county, with one of their larger buildings just down the street from the church). They were very vocal and despite many of their arguments not making sense (as the state's biggest water park is on the same road as the temple and is less than a mile away from it). The Church capitulated and made the very, very costly change of redesigning the temple to have a basement and be shorter (basements are at a high risk of being very costly in Phoenix due to the ground there). The community did not appreciate said changes.
Fast forward, there are several stories of the Church reaching out to the community and had them be there to show them the lights that they were complaining would be too bright. One member of the community, after being severely underwhelmed, even asked "when are you going to turn the actual lights on?" (all the lights were already on).
When it came to the open house, a preacher for CCV condemned it and told his members not to get anywhere near it. He was included as part of one of the tours before it was available to the public. The following Sunday, he told his congregation that he was wrong and that it was a good experience, that any of them that could go should consider it.
Now will this happen everywhere, probably not. Will this happen in Cody, also probably not, but had you asked me in 2013 if I thought that people weren't going to like the Church for a long time and would have a feeling of resentment everytime they saw it, I would have definitely agreed. I just wanted to add this because anything can happen, and I think the Lord CAN soften hearts of people even when almost all of us are sure that he probably WONT. Or at least, I am guessing this wont happen in Cody Wyoming, but I do hope that the Lord performs similar miracles as he did near me in Phoenix.
Here is some very encouraging news about the growth of the Church in the Jos Nigeria district, which has had hundreds of convert baptisms in the last few months. 2117 people attended the district conference last weekend. Needless to say, it will very likely be the last one, as the creation of a stake here is probably imminent.
Thanks, Pascal, and the same Jos Nigeria Facebook page posted photos and stories about their Jos District trip 750 kilometers each way to the Aba Nigeria Temple trip.
Does anyone know how far it is from Jos to Abuja. I really think an Abuja Temple is very likely. I am 100% sure at this point President Nelson and his associates have began work on trying to get such a temple. I am less sure that they will be far enough along on that path to officially announce it at this general conference.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints just announced it will integrate young teaching missionaries into the regular teaching missions. This may lead to a decision to rearrange mission boundaries and create new missions, I do not know.
There will still be service mission leader couples, and local bishops and stake presidents will still be ecclesiastical leaders for service missionaries. So it is not clear how much this will change the duties of mission presidents actually. So it may not necessitate many changes in mission boundaries.
Elder Bednar had a lot of interesting insights at the temple dedication. He spent 15 years of his life in NW Arkansas so it was more like he was talking to friends. Most candid speaking I've ever seen from a GA. He gave the actual projections for temple openings for the next four years but specifically said to "not blast it over social media," so sorry guys. When I see a lot of smaller areas with few stakes get temples it has always made me think that we may be playing catchup a little but that eventually the rate of new temples will decrease to once again align with growth. Well, let's just say that doesn't appear to be the case. Even with what, 133 temples announced but not dedicated, we shouldn't expect any slowdown of new temple announcements for the foreseeable future.
Something else that stuck out to me from his address was a story from his time at Ricks. President Hinckley and Elder Bednar were at an alumni/fundrasier event and President Hinckley put his hand on top of Elder Bednars and kept lifting his hand up and patting his palm, saying in effect, "The church has never been as strong and accepted around the world as it is today! It's amazing! There is so much more in store, I just won't be around to see it." In Northwest Arkansas it used to take all the forces of heaven to just get a meetinghouse approved due to local hostility. Due to the large migration and growth of the church here the past 20 years or so sentiments had changed. When the temple was put forth before the planning board it was approved without an ounce of pushback.
Now that may not be the case everywhere as we've seen with Cody, but all in all this is the best time to be alive as a member of the church. We're armed with an army of faithful saints and warchest of cash to utilize in ways never seen before to bring forth the salvation of souls.
Hmm, that is further to Abuja than I thought. It still beats the 706km to Aba Temple, well to Aba, the temple might be a little more. That looks like it would run 12 hours or so. The straight distance from Jos to Abuja is only 106km, but evidently there are no roads that way, and you have yo go all the way south to Akwanga, about a third of the way to Makrudi. Then you head west towards Abuja, and even bake a little north.
Makurdi, another place besides Abuja that has seen significant growth of the Church this year, would also be closer to an Abuja Temple than the Aba Temple. They might be a little closer still to an Enugu Temple. Makudi is 256 km from Enugu and 289 km from Abuja, so not too different.
Adam, I was intrigued by what you said about Elder Bednar's remarks. I wouldn't necessarily say that this site qualifies as social media, and I would think a blog discussing germaine issues about Church Growth would be exempt from that classification, but I applaud your efforts to comply with his request.
It's also worth noting on my end that, in addition to the two temple dedications already scheduled for next year, that I think a minimum of 20 other temples could be dedicated in 2024, a minimum of 14 others in 2025, and a minimum of 15 in 2026. I wouldn't be surprised to see double-digit temple dedications per year for the foreseeable future.
During a recent "Special Ministry Assignment" to Brazil, Sister Dennis and Sister Browning visited several major Cities in Brazil.
"Some of the time Sister Dennis and Sister Browning — accompanied by their husbands, Brother Jorge Dennis and Brother Brady Browning — were together, including during a visit to the Brazil Missionary Training Center and the Church’s Institute of Religion in São Paulo. Other times they were in different cities, including Londrina, Goiânia, Campinas, Ribeirão Preto and Belo Horizonte."
All but one of those cities visited in Brazil currently has a Temple in varying stages of construction or planned.
How long was it for Helena from ground breaking until dedication? I believe under 24 months. If that is the case there may be temples dedicated in 2026 that gave not had Groundbreaking then.
There were temples dedicated in 1999 that had not been announced in September 1997. In fact in September 1997 President Ginckley had not even publicly announced his radical new small temple plan. I am not sure we ever again will see temples from announcement yo dedication in less than 15 months, but my point is predicting temple dedications in 2026 is not yet easy.
On the other hand, if in late October 2010 I had told you the Urdaneta Philippines Temple would not be complete 13 years in the future, people would have also thought me crazy.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if a temeple were to be announced for Goiâna in the next 5 years or so. I also remember being impressed by how quickly site locations were released for Londrina and Ribeirão Preto: both on November 28, 2022 - less than two months after they were announced. Of course we don't have official renderings quite yet, but hopefully we will soon.
As for the Okinawa Temple, Shanghai and Beijing are actually slightly closer to Okinawa in flight time, than Hong Kong. I wonder if the Okinawa Temple will serve unofficially as an alternative for church members in Northern China.
I've visited the temple site in Cody, and I was actually surprised at how odd a choice it seemed once I pulled up to it. The view of the valley below was spectacular, but its location in the neighborhood made me feel, if nothing else, very interested to see how it would be developed, which I have no doubt will be tasteful and beautiful when its all done.
I had similar concerns about the Helena Temple. It is an odd location right inside a neighborhood. Granted, there was a former chapel already on site for years, so the residents were used to a church building there. I wasn't aware of any specific pushback from the community, but the finished temple is perfectly beautiful. If anything, it may come across as overbuilt for the neighborhood -- but you can see the beautiful spire from the interstate.
I was present for the Phoenix Temple groundbreaking and also followed the discussions about the residents pushing back on the Church. It was similar to what happened to my assigned temple in Billings, where some of the locals pushed back during the permitting phase, and the church compromised on the height and lighting. Once the temple was finished much of the local opposition melted away and it became a welcome addition to the neighborhood, and some of these non-member opponents were later featured in a Church-made video on temples, talking about how the temple was a good neighbor. You made good comments and observations, Religlang.
When I was recently recovering my list of all known Stakes, I had forgotten to add a 2nd time the newly created "South Jordan Utah Highland Park Stake" that had been reported last month by Nephi.
"Blogger Nephi said... South Jordan Utah Highland Park Stake created 08/20/2023
August 31, 2023 at 2:58 PM"
I now have made the correction. I found it by chance as i was searching Ricks Temple Districts list since he had 1 more stake than I had listed for the Oquirrh Mountain Utah Temple District.
Thank you, Gensileah! I certainly hope that Cody locals will warm up to the temple after its construction, as they have in Phoenix and Billings, and hopefully the Church will be able to offer more goodwill and reconciliation as well. I think they very well may end up financing road construction on Skyline Drive to reduce the impact of temple-going traffic, for instance.
I also remember, as a teenager, the big stink some residents raised about Billings before it was built, then the uproar died down after it was finished. It became our assigned temple once completed.
58 comments:
I plugged your website yesterday... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMNgY6bJYYw
You do great work and need more credit.
I was so excited to hear you guys give Matt's work a shout-out!
Matt, if you have a chance you should definitely go on their show, your perspective would be invaluable.
Thanks for the plug - Sure, I would be interested. Email me at matt.martinich@gmail.com.
Matt, I hate to be that person who questions everything. But in your July Newsletter, you state that the location of Richards Bay, South Africa was recently closed. But looking at the Meetinghouse Locator map, I still am able to see the "Richards Bay South Africa District (550558)" which includes also the Richards Bay Branch (147338).
https://maps.churchofjesuschrist.org/stakes/550558
So, has it just not been updated on the Map site of the Branch closure?
I appreciate all your hard work and reporting. And I apologize beforehand.
Thank you for catching that! It should be Port Dunford. Newsletter updated.
Question for everyone. With the Davao Temple, in all likelihood, being completed way in advance of the Temple in Cagayan De Oro, what would you say the likelihood of all of Mindanao being assigned to Davao might be, as opposed to Cebu maintaining responsibility for some of the locations on the island.
To help form an opinion, by my count, there are currently 29 Stakes or Districts on Mindanao and the Davao temple is expected to be around 18, 450 square feet.
And on a related note, what do you all see as the likelihood of a third temple on Mindanao to possibly serve the western portions of the island. And if one is ever announced, where might that be?
Craig - I find it hard to see a third temple announced for Mindanao any time soon. Zamboanga would seem like a logical choice in terms of distance, but there is only one stake in the city and no new wards or branches have been created in the city in at least 20 years. For those interested, there is a unique Creole language spoken in Zamboanga called Chavacano. General Santos is supposed to get a second stake sometime in the near future, but it is pretty close to Davao, so I don't think it is a serious contender for a temple announcement.
It was an interesting episode. The Ward Radio crew is a lot of fun! I think you should go on their show, and I hope that at some point Ward Radio gets into the temple prediction game we participate in every 6 months
Chris, I find your input incredibly enlightening! Your efforts are appreciated
A 4th stake in Bo seems very likely.
Looking at recent changes I think both Bo and Lome are now strong contenders for getting a temple.
The growth trends in Benin and Kenya are also quite positive.
I am hoping soon that Kenya will have a 4th stake, this one not in Nairobi.
I think these trends make a temple in Kampala likely.
I also think a temple in Cotonou is quite possible. I suspect Lome, Togo will get a temple announced first, but that Cotonou will be announced before Lome us complete, and maybe even before it sees a Groundbreaking.
Today marks the first triple temple dedication in Church history! The Brasilia Brazil temple was dedicated a few hours ago, the Bentonville Arkansas temple is about to start the second dedicatory session, and the Moses Lake Washington temple appears to be in between sessions right now.
For details, see the following: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/triple-temple-dedications-a-first-for-church-of-jesus-christ
Here are the updated Districts.
https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/brasilia-brazil-temple/district/
https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/bentonville-arkansas-temple/district/
https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/moses-lake-washington-temple/district/
I thought that the districts of Montes Claros and Patos de Minas in Minas Gerais and the State of Mato Grosso would become part of the Brasília temple district. This is not so relevant when we remember that Belo Horizonte is already under construction, but the only justification for MT remaining with Campinas must be the condition of the roads...
Reports on today's 3 dedications:
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/two-us-temples-and-one-in-brazil-dedicated-on-the-same-day
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2023/9/17/23873530/focus-savior-ordinances-covenants-elder-bednar-dedicates-bentonville-arkansas-temple
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2023/9/17/23877266/moses-lake-washington-temple-dedication-elder-cook-temples-are-a-blessing-and-a-gift
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2023/9/17/23878168/brazil-capital-city-brasilia-nations-10th-dedicated-temple-elder-neil-andersen
My thanks once again to you all.
I guess it was wishful thinking on my part so soon after a historic triple temple dedication just the day before, to see a post in the Newsroom and subsequently the Church News site, for the First Presidency to announce any future Groundbreaking dates or next Dedications after January. or Locations or Artists drawings of any of the 50 or so still in the backed up queue. With several more most like to be announced in just 2 short weeks.
Despite the many legal appeals (6 so far, I believe) and the vehement community backlash, the government of Cody, Wyoming has finally issued a building permit for the temple there: https://mybighornbasin.com/city-of-cody-issues-building-permit-for-lds-temple-construction/
Honestly, I have mixed feelings. This temple will obviously be a great boon to the members in Cody and surrounding environs, but I think the Church could have done a better job at understanding the opposition. The church has remodeled plans and adjusted temple locations to meet community needs for so many temples over the years, such as in Tooele Valley (now Deseret Peak), Tucson, Newport Beach, Tegucigalpa Honduras, Monterrey Mexico, etc that I find it difficult to understand why such a move couldn't happen here. My best guess is that they wanted this location in particular because it was donated by a local member and it would be an enormous hassle to choose a different spot, but I'm not sure. Hopefully the vitriolic atmosphere surrounding the church in Cody will start to subside now
The triple dedication could be the big news for this week, but it's possible that something could be announced tomorrow as well, so I wouldn't give up hope entirely. We also have VIP tours kicking off for the Okinawa Japan Temple on Thursday, with media tours Friday and the public open house begins on Friday, so if nothing is announced tomorrow, we'll at least get coverage on the Okinawa Japan Temple opening.
I also learned that the Church reportedly was holding off on announcing the opening arrangements for the Red Cliffs Utah Temple to not detract focus from St. George's open house. So we could potentially hear about other temple dedications before the arrangements for Red Cliffs are announced.
My dad is a St. George native (young Jeff Holland was my grandfather's home teaching companion) so my parents made a flying trip yesterday to St. George for the open house.
Religlang, the article explicitly states that the Church said that either relocating the temple or altering the plans at this stage would be costly, and therefore, would inconvenience the Church. The article also says that the public had numerous opportunities to voice opposition at various stages of the approvals process,and that objections weren't raised by the community until the project was almost approved. Why should the Church have to relocate or redesign the temple when confronted with eleventh-hour objections? The residents had multiple opportunities to voice opposition and chose not to until approvals were about to be granted. That's on them. It shouldn't be up to the Church to make concessions when late-stage objections are raised. The Church has been more than transparent and invited public comments repeatedly before the approvals were granted. If people didn't raise timely objections, that's on them, not something the Church should be expected to accommodate.
The Cody Temple is under 10,000 square feet. This is a smaller building than most Latter-day Saint meetinghouses.
James, I've been following this story since May of this year when I learned about the church's first community meeting explaining the temple project planned for May 24 - later rescheduled to June 6 (the official site and rendering plans were announced only 2 months earlier on March 13). As far as I can tell, the main group opposing the current temple location, Preserve Our Cody Neighborhoods, was created on May 13, and has been extremely vocal online and in their community meetings ever since - nearly a month before the first opportunity for the public to voice their concerns about the temple to church officials. That doesn't sound like waiting till the last minute to me.
@Religlang
What's different with the Cody Temple compared to the other temples you mentioned, is that Cody Temple is being built on a modular format, with all the modules already built, already shipped to Cody, waiting to be assembled. So the Church at this point, changing design, layout, or location would be pretty costly for the Church.
OC Surfer, I wondered by your comment why the church would have invested so much in construction if a permit wasn't granted. But the news article shown in the link above explains that it was already approved.
"Due to current city code, the Cody City Council doesn’t have the authority to overturn decisions made by the Planning, Zoning, and Adjustment Board to approve a conditional use permit or the site plan for the proposed temple."
I've been following this since the site was announced and have read every source I can get my hands on. I never weigh in on any issue here or elsewhere unless I've done my research on the relevant matters. I stand by my previous assessment. If your research has led you to a different conclusion, that's your prerogative. I'm more than willing to agree to disagree on this. I'm just grateful things may
finally be able to move forward on the Cody Wyoming Temple. It is one of many groundbreakings I hope to see in the next calendar year or sooner
Fair enough, I can get behind that. Regardless of everything, I definitely am excited for construction of the temple there to get started soon. I would like to apologize if the tone of my previous comment was too combative, that was not my intent.
OC Surfer, that's a great point. It would be very difficult to redesign the temple after it's already been built. Thank you for that insight.
No worries. I didn't take your comments as combative at all. My current personal situation has given me plenty of time each day to keep myself well informed on issues discussed both here and on my own blog As a relatively new commenter to the discussions here, you had no way of knowing that. I always appreciate your contributions to the discussions here.
Thank you, James. I appreciate your expert comments here as well.
The article also states that the Church made modifications to the Cody Temple's lighting plan before the permit was issued, so it looks like they were at least trying to make what accommodations were feasible in the situation.
I have an active member friend in nearby Lovell WY who says not to count on a long temple open house, or a productive one, in Cody. The church may try to pull out the red carpet to heal the wounds but he doesn't expect it to work. Given his "boots on the ground" perspective, I wonder what the long-term effects are of the back-and-forth on this temple. Most of the news focused on the back-and-forth about the legality of the church's actions and threats of lawsuits, but beyond that there is a real cost.
My friend felt like there were two major misconceptions from the news being reported on the issue:
1. That the community was passionately divided on the issue. They are divided, but not as passionately as the vocal minority. He said most people he knew were on the Preserve Cody side of the issue, among them even members and himself, but that most weren't passionate enough to do much about it. But he feels everyone will remember this whole event for years and it will have a chilling effect on missionary efforts.
2. For those who haven't been there, he says it's hard to describe with words just how out of place this temple will look given how small Cody is and the natural topography around it. He loves the look of the temples generally but thinks it will be an eyesore among those who chose to live in Wyoming, including those in Cody, to be closer to natural beauty and not opulent grandiosity. He said the locals are already a little perturbed as is by well-to-do homesteaders who decide to move from California and Utah to Wyoming. I'm not saying any of these perspectives are right or wrong - just that they "are." He says that church members often see inherent beauty in temples because of their personal belief in the ordinances that happen therein, but members forget that non-members don't see temples through that lens. They aren't convinced that property values will go up near the temple, nor do they see it as a symbol of peace, and in fact may detract from peace if it obstructs views of nature.
In the future, as the church expands into more remote areas and attempts modular construction, it may need to consider the costs of such an approach on the sentiment of locals towards the church. I'm not creative enough to know what a temple that fits the Wyoming aesthetic looks like, but at the very least it would involve turning out the lights at dusk (night lighting is horrible for wildlife, so this should happen everywhere, but in particular in rural areas). Perhaps it would include selecting land that allows the church to build a large natural screen of trees all around the temple, placed in berms around the temple, allowing the temple to be secluded but within city limits, with public walking trails through the natural areas to enhance the peace-giving utility to the public. I see Cody as a sunk cost but it will be interesting to see how the Church responds to try to prevent issues like this going forward.
I am looking forward to many more temples being built. For the work of God to move forward strongly and with power we need many more temples than exist now.
The people attacking the temple are largely not doing it for different reasons. The operates of the website on the matter blocked defenders of the temple, but allowed attackers. This included people hatefully trying to use events from over 160 years ago to fan flames of hate.
Many basically argue the temple should not be allowed anywhere in Cody. They also just plain lie about how visible the temple will be. The complaints about it are a bunch of hyperbole. The impact is exaggerated.
Beyond this, many of the calls are basically for imposing new and special rules against the temple that were never imposed on others.
I have seem other attacks on buildings motivated by bigotry, including the attack on building the mosque in Sterling Heights. This set of attacks has all the marks of bigoted attacks.
I really am hoping we see temples announced for Kampala, Cape Coast and Bo. Yamosoukro, Abuja and Port Harcourt I hope for but have less hope for.
I know no temple has ever been announced for a country where there was a planned but not an operating temple, well not other than the US, but President Nelson has been trying to move temples forward in New ways. This will require much faster building of temples, including announcing dome before earlier ones are complete.
The only thing I will add is that I witnessed a similar situation when they were building the Phoenix temple near my then home. A couple of members in the community got quite a few people riled up. Many of whom belonged to CCV (a well attended protestant church in Maricopa county, with one of their larger buildings just down the street from the church). They were very vocal and despite many of their arguments not making sense (as the state's biggest water park is on the same road as the temple and is less than a mile away from it). The Church capitulated and made the very, very costly change of redesigning the temple to have a basement and be shorter (basements are at a high risk of being very costly in Phoenix due to the ground there). The community did not appreciate said changes.
Fast forward, there are several stories of the Church reaching out to the community and had them be there to show them the lights that they were complaining would be too bright. One member of the community, after being severely underwhelmed, even asked "when are you going to turn the actual lights on?" (all the lights were already on).
When it came to the open house, a preacher for CCV condemned it and told his members not to get anywhere near it. He was included as part of one of the tours before it was available to the public. The following Sunday, he told his congregation that he was wrong and that it was a good experience, that any of them that could go should consider it.
Now will this happen everywhere, probably not. Will this happen in Cody, also probably not, but had you asked me in 2013 if I thought that people weren't going to like the Church for a long time and would have a feeling of resentment everytime they saw it, I would have definitely agreed. I just wanted to add this because anything can happen, and I think the Lord CAN soften hearts of people even when almost all of us are sure that he probably WONT. Or at least, I am guessing this wont happen in Cody Wyoming, but I do hope that the Lord performs similar miracles as he did near me in Phoenix.
FYI for anyone interested : "Open-house reservations available for the Orem Utah Temple"
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2023/9/20/23881619/orem-utah-temple-open-house-reservations-tickets
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0gr7LGHU2onn2iETMqW8q8dMcftpMJGL1fGKAYZreTZjt8qUkXuy2atqk5TQh86fsl&id=100087951351120
Here is some very encouraging news about the growth of the Church in the Jos Nigeria district, which has had hundreds of convert baptisms in the last few months. 2117 people attended the district conference last weekend. Needless to say, it will very likely be the last one, as the creation of a stake here is probably imminent.
Thanks, Pascal, and the same Jos Nigeria Facebook page posted photos and stories about their Jos District trip 750 kilometers each way to the Aba Nigeria Temple trip.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0Q9XTc4MxwJ5GNKrLK8TaRJzKq4m7Ae3kk1yLDJzEx3Z3gyx4H3N79m1woBWVsfu6l&id=100087951351120&eav=AfZZfoZyVD9drsejoMN_2tc9eVA1T3F5UMNG-kMBWXL9mYfwL7-zFu0xz500snP9AEM&m_entstream_source=timeline&paipv=0
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0WWSLifrey2t8KGk8ELrYkFpe1rSHUvLnaLQYoZGPitUuigvSvQFDyuK2K1fUopE8l&id=100087951351120&eav=Afb4tKP9m2r8IkkAHMyWN28SUpD2uX4Lwotxk5IJyWo8sJ7ldtlL3J2EnPu9VEI9uj0&m_entstream_source=timeline&paipv=0
Does anyone know how far it is from Jos to Abuja. I really think an Abuja Temple is very likely. I am 100% sure at this point President Nelson and his associates have began work on trying to get such a temple. I am less sure that they will be far enough along on that path to officially announce it at this general conference.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints just announced it will integrate young teaching missionaries into the regular teaching missions. This may lead to a decision to rearrange mission boundaries and create new missions, I do not know.
There will still be service mission leader couples, and local bishops and stake presidents will still be ecclesiastical leaders for service missionaries. So it is not clear how much this will change the duties of mission presidents actually. So it may not necessitate many changes in mission boundaries.
With another new stake in the Abuja area, I'd imagine a temple must be coming soon!
Elder Bednar had a lot of interesting insights at the temple dedication. He spent 15 years of his life in NW Arkansas so it was more like he was talking to friends. Most candid speaking I've ever seen from a GA. He gave the actual projections for temple openings for the next four years but specifically said to "not blast it over social media," so sorry guys. When I see a lot of smaller areas with few stakes get temples it has always made me think that we may be playing catchup a little but that eventually the rate of new temples will decrease to once again align with growth. Well, let's just say that doesn't appear to be the case. Even with what, 133 temples announced but not dedicated, we shouldn't expect any slowdown of new temple announcements for the foreseeable future.
Something else that stuck out to me from his address was a story from his time at Ricks. President Hinckley and Elder Bednar were at an alumni/fundrasier event and President Hinckley put his hand on top of Elder Bednars and kept lifting his hand up and patting his palm, saying in effect, "The church has never been as strong and accepted around the world as it is today! It's amazing! There is so much more in store, I just won't be around to see it." In Northwest Arkansas it used to take all the forces of heaven to just get a meetinghouse approved due to local hostility. Due to the large migration and growth of the church here the past 20 years or so sentiments had changed. When the temple was put forth before the planning board it was approved without an ounce of pushback.
Now that may not be the case everywhere as we've seen with Cody, but all in all this is the best time to be alive as a member of the church. We're armed with an army of faithful saints and warchest of cash to utilize in ways never seen before to bring forth the salvation of souls.
JP, as per Google, Abuja to Jos is roughly5 hours, 9 minuntes (282.3 km) via Makurdi - Jos Rd/A3.
For anyone interested, Elder Gary Stevenson just ministered in Iceland, Scotland and England.
"Be ‘of one heart, of one mind,’ Elder Stevenson says during Iceland, Scotland, England ministry
Elder Gary E. Stevenson is the first Apostle to minister in Iceland in over 20 years"
https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2023/9/22/23884707/elder-gary-stevenson-iceland-scotland-england-ministry-be-of-one-heart-of-one-mind
Hmm, that is further to Abuja than I thought. It still beats the 706km to Aba Temple, well to Aba, the temple might be a little more. That looks like it would run 12 hours or so. The straight distance from Jos to Abuja is only 106km, but evidently there are no roads that way, and you have yo go all the way south to Akwanga, about a third of the way to Makrudi. Then you head west towards Abuja, and even bake a little north.
Makurdi, another place besides Abuja that has seen significant growth of the Church this year, would also be closer to an Abuja Temple than the Aba Temple. They might be a little closer still to an Enugu Temple. Makudi is 256 km from Enugu and 289 km from Abuja, so not too different.
Enugu to Jos is 541 km.
Adam, I was intrigued by what you said about Elder Bednar's remarks. I wouldn't necessarily say that this site qualifies as social media, and I would think a blog discussing germaine issues about Church Growth would be exempt from that classification, but I applaud your efforts to comply with his request.
It's also worth noting on my end that, in addition to the two temple dedications already scheduled for next year, that I think a minimum of 20 other temples could be dedicated in 2024, a minimum of 14 others in 2025, and a minimum of 15 in 2026. I wouldn't be surprised to see double-digit temple dedications per year for the foreseeable future.
During a recent "Special Ministry Assignment" to Brazil, Sister Dennis and Sister Browning visited several major Cities in Brazil.
"Some of the time Sister Dennis and Sister Browning — accompanied by their husbands, Brother Jorge Dennis and Brother Brady Browning — were together, including during a visit to the Brazil Missionary Training Center and the Church’s Institute of Religion in São Paulo. Other times they were in different cities, including Londrina, Goiânia, Campinas, Ribeirão Preto and Belo Horizonte."
All but one of those cities visited in Brazil currently has a Temple in varying stages of construction or planned.
https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2023/9/22/23884756/sister-anette-dennis-tracy-browning-brazil-ministry-devotionals-humanitarian
I would love to see Goiania get a temple, but I am not sure that is likely with it not being super far from Brasilia.
How long was it for Helena from ground breaking until dedication? I believe under 24 months. If that is the case there may be temples dedicated in 2026 that gave not had Groundbreaking then.
There were temples dedicated in 1999 that had not been announced in September 1997. In fact in September 1997 President Ginckley had not even publicly announced his radical new small temple plan. I am not sure we ever again will see temples from announcement yo dedication in less than 15 months, but my point is predicting temple dedications in 2026 is not yet easy.
On the other hand, if in late October 2010 I had told you the Urdaneta Philippines Temple would not be complete 13 years in the future, people would have also thought me crazy.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if a temeple were to be announced for Goiâna in the next 5 years or so. I also remember being impressed by how quickly site locations were released for Londrina and Ribeirão Preto: both on November 28, 2022 - less than two months after they were announced. Of course we don't have official renderings quite yet, but hopefully we will soon.
This could mean that Goiânia is entering the radar...
As for the Okinawa Temple, Shanghai and Beijing are actually slightly closer to Okinawa in flight time, than Hong Kong. I wonder if the Okinawa Temple will serve unofficially as an alternative for church members in Northern China.
I've visited the temple site in Cody, and I was actually surprised at how odd a choice it seemed once I pulled up to it. The view of the valley below was spectacular, but its location in the neighborhood made me feel, if nothing else, very interested to see how it would be developed, which I have no doubt will be tasteful and beautiful when its all done.
I had similar concerns about the Helena Temple. It is an odd location right inside a neighborhood. Granted, there was a former chapel already on site for years, so the residents were used to a church building there. I wasn't aware of any specific pushback from the community, but the finished temple is perfectly beautiful. If anything, it may come across as overbuilt for the neighborhood -- but you can see the beautiful spire from the interstate.
I was present for the Phoenix Temple groundbreaking and also followed the discussions about the residents pushing back on the Church. It was similar to what happened to my assigned temple in Billings, where some of the locals pushed back during the permitting phase, and the church compromised on the height and lighting. Once the temple was finished much of the local opposition melted away and it became a welcome addition to the neighborhood, and some of these non-member opponents were later featured in a Church-made video on temples, talking about how the temple was a good neighbor. You made good comments and observations, Religlang.
When I was recently recovering my list of all known Stakes, I had forgotten to add a 2nd time the newly created "South Jordan Utah Highland Park Stake" that had been reported last month by Nephi.
"Blogger Nephi said...
South Jordan Utah Highland Park Stake created 08/20/2023
August 31, 2023 at 2:58 PM"
I now have made the correction. I found it by chance as i was searching Ricks Temple Districts list since he had 1 more stake than I had listed for the Oquirrh Mountain Utah Temple District.
Thank you, Gensileah! I certainly hope that Cody locals will warm up to the temple after its construction, as they have in Phoenix and Billings, and hopefully the Church will be able to offer more goodwill and reconciliation as well. I think they very well may end up financing road construction on Skyline Drive to reduce the impact of temple-going traffic, for instance.
@ Gensileah & Religlang
I also remember, as a teenager, the big stink some residents raised about Billings before it was built, then the uproar died down after it was finished. It became our assigned temple once completed.
Post a Comment