Matt, thanks for these updates. For the information of readers of this blog, I wanted to note that the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square has released a new logo, and the First Presidency today announced the location of and preliminary information for the Bentonville Arkansas Temple, which makes it likely that temple will be among those to have a groundbreaking before the end of this year:
"...Bruce H Winegar, 73, Highland 1st Ward, Pocatello Idaho Highland Stake, called as president of the new Pocatello Idaho Temple. President Winegar’s wife, Karen Finch Winegar, will serve as temple matron. He is an Idaho Falls Idaho Temple presidency counselor and former Area Seventy executive secretary, New Jersey Cherry Hill Mission president, stake president and bishop. A retired environmental engineer manager, he was born in Salt Lake City to Grant Leonard Winegar and Betty Louise Haacke Call.
Sister Winegar is an assistant to the matron of the Idaho Falls Idaho Temple and Primary activity day leader and former mission president companion, stake Relief Society president and ward Primary president. She was born in Logan, Utah, to Vernon Jay and Kathleen Toolson Finch.
They will begin their service when the temple is dedicated."
Growth in France is certainly steady but undoubtedly highly involved with many Sub-Saharan Africans, many of whom are Francophones to begin with. For the Church the 30 or so African countries where the missionaries are allowed to go is part of the hope and promise of the spread of the faith now and into the future. Even though COVID-19 will have dire effects throughout this continent full of so much potential, I have some hopes in some of the following factors: 1. There are so many young people, comparitively, that many citizens will not suffer and die from this pandemic. 2. Perhaps those who typically fight malaria may have extra immunity and/or tools to fight the disease. 3. There seems to be less obese people in the normal African population, which seems to work against its victims. 4. Maybe the co-morbid underlying health factors that afflict a lot of the world is not as prevalent in the African lands where members are surging. 5. The promises of the Word of Wisdom are more evident than ever.
Underlying conditions like obesity, diabetes, heart disease and immunodeficiency are the main reason people are getting very sick from that virus. It has also been found that cigarette, marijuana, other street drugs, and alcohol can aggravate things too, and in some cases also cause more serious outcomes from the virus as well.
Utah has seen only just over 30 deaths so far, so while there are the medical conditions, the rate of tobacco, alcohol, or street drug use including marijuana is less, and that fact may be one reason we are seeing so few die here.
Utah, based on so many young born in bigger families, also have a bigger cohort of youth, which like most of Africa, is favorable to survival. Less obesity is probably in Utah's favor, too. Despite all the jello and ice cream.
But Utah's death count from COVID-19 is still considerably lower than anywhere else, primarily because government leaders took early action to enact a "stay safe, stay home" approach. Thanks.
Maybe this was discussed earlier, but I just noticed that the Bangkok Thailand Temple rendering on Rick's website has been quietly changed to remove the Moroni statue that definitely used to be there (and remains in every other version of the rendering on the internet). Is the Church seriously so determined to abandon this symbol that they changed plans mid-construction? Is it a Southeast Asia thing? At least this temple will still look like a temple instead of a generic little church, but it seems ridiculous to me.
Of all the countries listed above, it looks like Albania has had the most steady growth, without any setbacks or steps backward so far. Hope that keeps up.
Hello, Christopher Nicholson, and everyone else. Regarding your most recent comment, Christopher, what you said led me to do additional research on my end, which in turn sparked a few insights in my mind. I hope I will be pardoned in advance for this comment, which will be somewhat long-winded, and may thus not be for the proverbial faint of heart. Here’s what I found out:
Of the 15 temples currently under construction, 10 still have an angel Moroni as originally planned: Rio de Janeiro Brazil, Winnipeg Manitoba, Abidjan Côte d'Ivoire, Pocatello Idaho, Quito Ecuador, Urdaneta Philippines, Belem Brazil, Saratoga Springs Utah, Richmond Virginia, Puebla Mexico.
3 temples currently have a groundbreaking scheduled: Alabang Philippines, Layton Utah, and Auckland New Zealand. Of those temples, Layton was the only one for which an original rendering included the Angel Moroni, and that remains true.
7 other temples have had renderings released. Of those 7, 2 renderings show the angel Moroni.
13 of the 25 temples have an angel Moroni, which means that a clear majority (52%) have the angel Moroni.
For the 4 other temples that have had a site announced but for which official renderings have not yet been released, I’d be very much surprised if the Church did not put an angel Moroni on all of them, which would result in 17 out of 29 having an angel Moroni, bringing the majority that would have one to just under 59%.
It is not at all uncommon for redesigns, tweaks, or minor adjustments to be made to temple designs between the time their first official renderings are released and when the temple is dedicated. The Church wound up having to completely overhaul the original exterior design for the Winnipeg Manitoba Temple, and the Church wound up having to completely overhaul the original design for the Fortaleza Brazil Temple, on which construction was only able to formally begin 4.5 years after its groundbreaking was held.
With the Bangkok Thailand Temple, those assigned to the project indicated that roughly a year’s worth of work on the substructure would be needed before work could begin on the temple proper. It could be that, as the process of laying the substructure has continued, the government raised new concerns about the angel Moroni, and that in order to ensure that construction could continue unhindered, the Church opted to remove it from the design.
But I anticipate that the actual reasoning behind that removal may be something that we don’t necessarily need to know. Sometimes in terms of temple designs , all you can do is to trust the process of prophetic revelation in that respect and leave things at that. When the original Nauvoo Temple was first constructed, the Prophet Joseph Smith advised the Church architect, whose name, unless I am mistaken, was Truman O. Angell, that he clearly saw circular glass windows in a vision of that temple. Such a feature hadn’t ever been done for any building in the United States at the time. The architect tried to dissuade the prophet, but Brother Joseph was insistent, and even commissioned him to go on a research mission to Europe to study similar features in buildings there. After returning therefrom, the architect crafted the temple exactly as Joseph had envisioned, and he was later led to acknowledge the prophetic foresight of that design.
I know that at times when the facts are not known (such as the reasoning behind the removal of the angel Moroni from the Bangkok Thailand Temple) there may be a tendency to assume the worst about what happened. But the fact that a clear majority of temples that are now or will soon be under construction have that angel Moroni is a pretty good indicator to me that there will not be a phasing out of that symbol on top of a majority of temples going forward. Without my personally being privy to the discussions at Church headquarters or in Thailand with government officials, that leaves me in such situations with two basic options: I can either trust the process of such determinations, for which I am not privy to the details, or I can draw a conclusion that has not been officially specified by the Church, and which may thus be incorrect. And posed in that manner, the best option for me personally is pretty clear. Hopefully these thoughts and insights, such as they are, are helpful. I mean no offense by anything I have said here and hope none is taken by anyone reading these latest comments from me. That said, I do believe that if we as a Church-at-large need to know the reasoning behind what happened in Bangkok and why the design was changed, we'll be advised in that regard at some point. FWIW, hope these ramblings are worth something to someone who reads them here.
On an unrelated topic, the Church recently completed translation of the Triple Combination into Polish (LCR announcement here). The scriptures are available on the Library app and on Scriptures.ChurchofJesusChrist.org (link).
Looking back at the First Presidency announcement in 2017 (link), this is the ninth completed translation project from that list (out of 34). At least eight others have made public progress of some kind (chapters/sections posted to the Library app). Additionally, work has been started on the Macedonian translation of the Book of Mormon, announced in 2018.
Even with the restrictions caused by COVID-19, the work of bringing the scriptures continues apace.
I wonder if there is more of a concern with temples in Asia, where Christians are usually a tiny minority, of the Moroni statue itself being mistaken for an object of worship.
Thank you for the status update Jamie! Was just thinking about that 2017 announcement the other day and wondering where things were at, thanks for sharing.
Christopher Nicholson, cultural confusion hadn't even crossed my mind as a probable reason for the change, but that makes sense to me. Maybe that wasn't necessarily a factor that was considered when the initial design was put together, but then, as plans and substructure work progressed, it became an issue, so it was easier to make that adjustment now. That might be exactly what occurred in this case.
Jamie, I've been lightly following the process of scripture translations myself. Unless things have changed at Church headquarters, Elder Gerrit W. Gong heads up the Scriptures Committee, which, I believe, is the group working on and approving those translations. I am not sure how many languages Elder Gong speaks fluently, but it could be that between him and the other General Authorities and General Officers of the Church who are on that committee, a wider scope of capabilities has been provided to translate more languages than ever before. In any case, that is yet another witness that the work is moving forward at an accelerated pace. And I fully believe that President Nelson is the man the Lord foreordained to oversee that acceleration. I look forward to seeing whatever may be ahead
BTW, shouldn't this Stake name be correctly "Hualpen Chile Stake" using the correctly established City + Country format from the Church Manuals. Rather than the Country + City format used "Chile Hualpen" in the Concepción Chile Temple District.
Or is it called the Talcahuano Chile Hualpen Stake in the CDOL?
Hey, Chris! According to the Church Temples site showing the stakes in the Concepcion Chile Temple district, the name of the new stake is indeed the Hualpén Chile Stake:
I find it odd that an unofficial site containing some official information (the Church Temples site) has tended to be more accurate than the offical Church website. There have been other inaccuracies on the Church website as well aside from the anomalies about congregational listings. For example, there appears to be some discrepancies in their official list of area seventies, and I also know that it sometimes takes an abnormal amount of time for the Church to update some of their web pages (such as after assignments change annually on August 1). Those discrepancies are particularly frustrating to see, since I use that pertinent information in the many files I track. Just some additional thoughts here. Thanks for allowing me to vent a little about this, everyone! I'll get off my soapbox now.
There is a bright orange Thai Buddhist Temple being built here in Ogden, with a large visible golden statue of Buddha in a shrine on the premises. Every time I drive past, I joke to myself that, "They need to put that golden statue on top of the temple to fit in with the others here in Utah." :)
Joking aside, it had me thinking. Bangkok is full of statues of Buddha - including golden statues, and the Buddha is the central figure of that faith. The Brethren might have realized that we could be sending a mixed message about Moroni being a figure we worship if they kept the angel statue up there.
On a related note, the Great Angkor Temples in neighboring Cambodia are covered with statues (including the giant stone faces on the spires/towers of the Bayon Temples at Angkor Thom) of Hindu deities. That association of statues of worshipful gods on top of temples is probably another reason they're eschewing putting the Angel Moroni on the Phnom Penh & Bangkok Temples.
Christopher Nicholson and Johnathan Whiting, there is also no angel Moroni on the current rendering for the Bengaluru India Temple, likely for the very same reason. Let's now look more in-depth at temples that do or will yet fall under the boundaries of the Asia and Asia North Areas of the Church. On the Church of Jesus Christ Temples site, where temples are listed alphabetically by major world region, 19 temples are listed as pertaining to Asia. That list includes Dubai UAE, which I am not accounting for, since that temple will be the first in the Middle East/Africa North Area, but it also excludes the Yigo Guam Temple, which may be geographically closer to western Africa, but is assigned to the Asia North Area. So the total thus far remains at 19.
With the recent announcements of temples for Cagayan de Oro, Davao, and Bacolod in the Philippines, the total number of temples in the Philippines area will be 7. Since the Church has a separate area under which the Philippines temples fall, I am not counting those either. That leaves the total number of temples to I will be refering at an even dozen, namely the following: Bangkok Thailand, Bengaluru India, Fukuoka Japan, Hong Kong China, Okinawa Japan, Phnom Penh Cambodia, Sapporo Japan, Seoul Korea, Shanghai China, Taipei Taiwan, Tokyo Japan, and Yigo Guam. Since no official rendering has been released for the Okinawa Japan or Shanghai China Temples, that leaves 10 about which I will comment in my analysis.
Of those 10, the following 6 have an angel Moroni: Fukuoka Japan, Hong Kong China, Sapporo Japan, Seoul Korea, Taipei Taiwan, and Tokyo Japan. Since 6/10 currently have an angel Moroni, that's 60% of the previously-dedicated temples that do. Yigo may be a more impoverished region, making the lack of inclusion of an angel Moroni a smart move. For Cambodia and India, the religious traditions that lean toward idolatrous practices makes the lack of such statues make sense. I believe Okinawa (and possibly even Shanghai, depending on the design thereof) could come complete with an angel Moroni. We may find out later on whether the angels on the top of Hong Kong and Tokyo will return. Just some additional thoughts from me, for whatever they might be worth to any who read them. Thanks.
According to the news release quoted on Rick's temple site, the Hong Kong Temple's current spire and angel statue will be replaced with a small spire without a statue.
Also, you said, "the Yigo Guam Temple, which may be geographically closer to western Africa, but is assigned to the Asia North Area." Was that a typo? Guam is in the Western Pacific, close to Asia or Australia, but not Africa.
"I find it odd that an unofficial site containing some official information (the Church Temples site) has tended to be more accurate than the official Church website."
It's not that odd once you consider that Rick is doing his site as a labor of love, and so he can afford to take as much time with his hobby to be as accurate with the info as he wants. He doesn't have to answer to any department heads or follow any policy telling him what he can and can't post.
The official Church websites are a part of the bureaucratic administrative side of the Church, and so the employees have to wait and get approval from their bosses or leaders for what info the Church is ready to share. The employees also might not be as interested in the very specific accuracy of information that some of us are who follow Church growth as a hobby. Many are just doing their jobs, and once they're done, they move on to the next project their boss assigns them to. The administration ultimately makes the final decision as to what does and does not need to be published, and the employee gets paid the same either way, so there's not as much incentive for them to put extra info out that their bosses deem as unnecessary.
It's kind of like the difference between a company keeping its own records as a necessity, and an investigative journalist digging into the records for a specific story. Not that the company is intentionally hiding anything, but they won't necessarily publish info that they don't see as being pertinent to their bottom line.
Utah has instituted less social distancing than other parts of the US. It is less underlying health issues combined with a younger population that leads to less death. No other way to explain a death rate so low.
Jonathan Whiting, as part of my analysis, I had forgotten to consult the Church Temples site about Hong Kong and Tokyo. But I do recall reading the information you quoted about Hong Kong. Good catch. Thank you. You are also correct that I was not talking about Yigo Guam. I somehow cited Yigo Guam when the actual temple to which I was referring was the Praia Cabo Verde Temple. Geographically speaking, Cabo Verde is techincally part of the West African region of the world. But when it comes to the geographical divisions of the Church areas in that region, Cabo Verde falls within the boundaries of the Europe Area rather than the Africa West Area. I apologize for unintentionally misstating the details in this case. Thanks for catching that.
You are also correct in your reasoning that official information on an unofficial site is more likely to be accurate than some official Church sources due to the fact that individuals can devote more time to ensuring correct information as they work on their private personal labors of love. That is absolutely true with the Church Temples site, as it is with the content on my own blog that covers a wide array of Church information, data, and developments. I was very flattered at one point last year when one comment on my blog was like the Church news on steroids. And I have a lot more time to devote to the minutae of specific details now than I would if I were able to be presently employed, and thus far more time than those volunteers who update the Church website have.
The same is also true of this blog of Matt's. with the Cumorah Foundation being. a privately-funded Church growth initiative, although Matt works full-time, he is also able to devote much time and effort to content on this blog. When looked at in that light, it's not surprising at all. Another good catch. You can chalk up my misstatements on that to ongoing health issues and other stress. Thanks for asking for that clarification, Jonathan. I am grateful to have the chance to set the record straight.
I think a big part of the low mortality rate in Utah (the lowest in all the western states) is the adherence to the Word of Wisdom by a large percentage of the population. One of many factors, I know, but still I feel it is significant.
JMR, FWIW, as someone living in Utah that has seen parts or all of the daily COVID-19 briefings, I can also note that it is due to the early implementation of a strict "stay home, stay safe" initiative that was backed up by legal means that the virus in question has had a diminished impact here in Utah. Had it not been for those regulations, or for the many citizens here in Utah that honored the recommended directives, the effects of the pandemic would be far more widely felt, with far more devstating consequences.
It also helps that the leaders of the Church who are headquartered here were invited to take part in the governor's task force, and as such, had a front-row seat to observe what worked and what didn't. while that doesn't lessen the impact or power of the revelatory announcements which have come down the pike Churchwide in response to COVID-19, it did present a unique opportunity for the Church and its' leaders to be part of solutions that are working here, and may thus be helpful to be implemented elsewhere.
Utah has essentially 10% of the cases Michigan has but 1% of the deaths but 33% of the population.
Did Utah every shut down trax?
De Blasio has blood on his hands for encouraging people to ride the subway in New York City.
Detroit is by some measures denser than Salt Lake City. Yet we have nothing on San Francisco. Detroit is bigger than Manhattan, Boston and San Francisco combined by area but has less population than San Francisco.
Detroit has huge negative indicators of COPD. Asthma, diabetes, obesity and smoking.
Somewhere I read that COVID-19 tracks closely with the subway grid in greater New York City.
28 comments:
Matt, thanks for these updates. For the information of readers of this blog, I wanted to note that the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square has released a new logo, and the First Presidency today announced the location of and preliminary information for the Bentonville Arkansas Temple, which makes it likely that temple will be among those to have a groundbreaking before the end of this year:
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/the-tabernacle-choir-at-temple-square-unveils-new-logo
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/bentonville-arkansas-temple-location-released
I have provided further analysis of these developments on my blog:
https://stokessoundsoff.blogspot.com/
My thanks once again to you all.
Read about these 2 new temple presidents and matrons
https://www.thechurchnews.com/callings/2020-04-23/read-about-these-2-new-temple-presidents-and-matrons-181723
"...Bruce H Winegar, 73, Highland 1st Ward, Pocatello Idaho Highland Stake, called as president of the new Pocatello Idaho Temple. President Winegar’s wife, Karen Finch Winegar, will serve as temple matron. He is an Idaho Falls Idaho Temple presidency counselor and former Area Seventy executive secretary, New Jersey Cherry Hill Mission president, stake president and bishop. A retired environmental engineer manager, he was born in Salt Lake City to Grant Leonard Winegar and Betty Louise Haacke Call.
Sister Winegar is an assistant to the matron of the Idaho Falls Idaho Temple and Primary activity day leader and former mission president companion, stake Relief Society president and ward Primary president. She was born in Logan, Utah, to Vernon Jay and Kathleen Toolson Finch.
They will begin their service when the temple is dedicated."
Growth in France is certainly steady but undoubtedly highly involved with many Sub-Saharan Africans, many of whom are Francophones to begin with.
For the Church the 30 or so African countries where the missionaries are allowed to go is part of the hope and promise of the spread of the faith now and into the future.
Even though COVID-19 will have dire effects throughout this continent full of so much potential, I have some hopes in some of the following factors:
1. There are so many young people, comparitively, that many citizens will not suffer and die from this pandemic.
2. Perhaps those who typically fight malaria may have extra immunity and/or tools to fight the disease.
3. There seems to be less obese people in the normal African population, which seems to work against its victims.
4. Maybe the co-morbid underlying health factors that afflict a lot of the world is not as prevalent in the African lands where members are surging.
5. The promises of the Word of Wisdom are more evident than ever.
Underlying conditions like obesity, diabetes, heart disease and immunodeficiency are the main reason people are getting very sick from that virus. It has also been found that cigarette, marijuana, other street drugs, and alcohol can aggravate things too, and in some cases also cause more serious outcomes from the virus as well.
Utah has seen only just over 30 deaths so far, so while there are the medical conditions, the rate of tobacco, alcohol, or street drug use including marijuana is less, and that fact may be one reason we are seeing so few die here.
Utah, based on so many young born in bigger families, also have a bigger cohort of youth, which like most of Africa, is favorable to survival. Less obesity is probably in Utah's favor, too. Despite all the jello and ice cream.
James Anderson, per the following update provided earlier today, the Utah death toll is now just under 40:
https://www.ksl.com/article/46744987/utah-sees-170-new-cases-of-covid-19-4-new-deaths
But Utah's death count from COVID-19 is still considerably lower than anywhere else, primarily because government leaders took early action to enact a "stay safe, stay home" approach. Thanks.
Maybe this was discussed earlier, but I just noticed that the Bangkok Thailand Temple rendering on Rick's website has been quietly changed to remove the Moroni statue that definitely used to be there (and remains in every other version of the rendering on the internet). Is the Church seriously so determined to abandon this symbol that they changed plans mid-construction? Is it a Southeast Asia thing? At least this temple will still look like a temple instead of a generic little church, but it seems ridiculous to me.
@
Christopher Nicholson
I hope it's just a phase. I mean, I don't mind that they're experimenting with different designs, but I hope they don't abandon Moroni entirely.
Of all the countries listed above, it looks like Albania has had the most steady growth, without any setbacks or steps backward so far. Hope that keeps up.
Hello, Christopher Nicholson, and everyone else. Regarding your most recent comment, Christopher, what you said led me to do additional research on my end, which in turn sparked a few insights in my mind. I hope I will be pardoned in advance for this comment, which will be somewhat long-winded, and may thus not be for the proverbial faint of heart. Here’s what I found out:
Of the 15 temples currently under construction, 10 still have an angel Moroni as originally planned: Rio de Janeiro Brazil, Winnipeg Manitoba, Abidjan Côte d'Ivoire, Pocatello Idaho, Quito Ecuador, Urdaneta Philippines, Belem Brazil, Saratoga Springs Utah, Richmond Virginia, Puebla Mexico.
3 temples currently have a groundbreaking scheduled: Alabang Philippines, Layton Utah, and Auckland New Zealand. Of those temples, Layton was the only one for which an original rendering included the Angel Moroni, and that remains true.
7 other temples have had renderings released. Of those 7, 2 renderings show the angel Moroni.
13 of the 25 temples have an angel Moroni, which means that a clear majority (52%) have the angel Moroni.
For the 4 other temples that have had a site announced but for which official renderings have not yet been released, I’d be very much surprised if the Church did not put an angel Moroni on all of them, which would result in 17 out of 29 having an angel Moroni, bringing the majority that would have one to just under 59%.
It is not at all uncommon for redesigns, tweaks, or minor adjustments to be made to temple designs between the time their first official renderings are released and when the temple is dedicated. The Church wound up having to completely overhaul the original exterior design for the Winnipeg Manitoba Temple, and the Church wound up having to completely overhaul the original design for the Fortaleza Brazil Temple, on which construction was only able to formally begin 4.5 years after its groundbreaking was held.
With the Bangkok Thailand Temple, those assigned to the project indicated that roughly a year’s worth of work on the substructure would be needed before work could begin on the temple proper. It could be that, as the process of laying the substructure has continued, the government raised new concerns about the angel Moroni, and that in order to ensure that construction could continue unhindered, the Church opted to remove it from the design.
But I anticipate that the actual reasoning behind that removal may be something that we don’t necessarily need to know. Sometimes in terms of temple designs , all you can do is to trust the process of prophetic revelation in that respect and leave things at that. When the original Nauvoo Temple was first constructed, the Prophet Joseph Smith advised the Church architect, whose name, unless I am mistaken, was Truman O. Angell, that he clearly saw circular glass windows in a vision of that temple. Such a feature hadn’t ever been done for any building in the United States at the time. The architect tried to dissuade the prophet, but Brother Joseph was insistent, and even commissioned him to go on a research mission to Europe to study similar features in buildings there. After returning therefrom, the architect crafted the temple exactly as Joseph had envisioned, and he was later led to acknowledge the prophetic foresight of that design.
I know that at times when the facts are not known (such as the reasoning behind the removal of the angel Moroni from the Bangkok Thailand Temple) there may be a tendency to assume the worst about what happened. But the fact that a clear majority of temples that are now or will soon be under construction have that angel Moroni is a pretty good indicator to me that there will not be a phasing out of that symbol on top of a majority of temples going forward. Without my personally being privy to the discussions at Church headquarters or in Thailand with government officials, that leaves me in such situations with two basic options: I can either trust the process of such determinations, for which I am not privy to the details, or I can draw a conclusion that has not been officially specified by the Church, and which may thus be incorrect. And posed in that manner, the best option for me personally is pretty clear. Hopefully these thoughts and insights, such as they are, are helpful. I mean no offense by anything I have said here and hope none is taken by anyone reading these latest comments from me. That said, I do believe that if we as a Church-at-large need to know the reasoning behind what happened in Bangkok and why the design was changed, we'll be advised in that regard at some point. FWIW, hope these ramblings are worth something to someone who reads them here.
On an unrelated topic, the Church recently completed translation of the Triple Combination into Polish (LCR announcement here). The scriptures are available on the Library app and on Scriptures.ChurchofJesusChrist.org (link).
Looking back at the First Presidency announcement in 2017 (link), this is the ninth completed translation project from that list (out of 34). At least eight others have made public progress of some kind (chapters/sections posted to the Library app). Additionally, work has been started on the Macedonian translation of the Book of Mormon, announced in 2018.
Even with the restrictions caused by COVID-19, the work of bringing the scriptures continues apace.
I wonder if there is more of a concern with temples in Asia, where Christians are usually a tiny minority, of the Moroni statue itself being mistaken for an object of worship.
Thank you for the status update Jamie! Was just thinking about that 2017 announcement the other day and wondering where things were at, thanks for sharing.
Christopher Nicholson, cultural confusion hadn't even crossed my mind as a probable reason for the change, but that makes sense to me. Maybe that wasn't necessarily a factor that was considered when the initial design was put together, but then, as plans and substructure work progressed, it became an issue, so it was easier to make that adjustment now. That might be exactly what occurred in this case.
Jamie, I've been lightly following the process of scripture translations myself. Unless things have changed at Church headquarters, Elder Gerrit W. Gong heads up the Scriptures Committee, which, I believe, is the group working on and approving those translations. I am not sure how many languages Elder Gong speaks fluently, but it could be that between him and the other General Authorities and General Officers of the Church who are on that committee, a wider scope of capabilities has been provided to translate more languages than ever before. In any case, that is yet another witness that the work is moving forward at an accelerated pace. And I fully believe that President Nelson is the man the Lord foreordained to oversee that acceleration. I look forward to seeing whatever may be ahead
BTW, shouldn't this Stake name be correctly "Hualpen Chile Stake" using the correctly established City + Country format from the Church Manuals. Rather than the Country + City format used "Chile Hualpen" in the Concepción Chile Temple District.
Or is it called the Talcahuano Chile Hualpen Stake in the CDOL?
https://classic.churchofjesuschrist.org/maps/#ll=-36.7731,-73.090762&z=12&m=google.hybrid&layers=stakecenter&q=Chile%20Hualpen&find=stake:513091
I sent a feedback note to the Classic Maps site to correct.
Hey, Chris! According to the Church Temples site showing the stakes in the Concepcion Chile Temple district, the name of the new stake is indeed the Hualpén Chile Stake:
https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/concepcion-chile-temple/district/
I find it odd that an unofficial site containing some official information (the Church Temples site) has tended to be more accurate than the offical Church website. There have been other inaccuracies on the Church website as well aside from the anomalies about congregational listings. For example, there appears to be some discrepancies in their official list of area seventies, and I also know that it sometimes takes an abnormal amount of time for the Church to update some of their web pages (such as after assignments change annually on August 1). Those discrepancies are particularly frustrating to see, since I use that pertinent information in the many files I track. Just some additional thoughts here. Thanks for allowing me to vent a little about this, everyone! I'll get off my soapbox now.
@Christopher Nicholson
That thought had recently occurred to me, too.
There is a bright orange Thai Buddhist Temple being built here in Ogden, with a large visible golden statue of Buddha in a shrine on the premises. Every time I drive past, I joke to myself that, "They need to put that golden statue on top of the temple to fit in with the others here in Utah." :)
Joking aside, it had me thinking. Bangkok is full of statues of Buddha - including golden statues, and the Buddha is the central figure of that faith. The Brethren might have realized that we could be sending a mixed message about Moroni being a figure we worship if they kept the angel statue up there.
On a related note, the Great Angkor Temples in neighboring Cambodia are covered with statues (including the giant stone faces on the spires/towers of the Bayon Temples at Angkor Thom) of Hindu deities. That association of statues of worshipful gods on top of temples is probably another reason they're eschewing putting the Angel Moroni on the Phnom Penh & Bangkok Temples.
Christopher Nicholson and Johnathan Whiting, there is also no angel Moroni on the current rendering for the Bengaluru India Temple, likely for the very same reason. Let's now look more in-depth at temples that do or will yet fall under the boundaries of the Asia and Asia North Areas of the Church. On the Church of Jesus Christ Temples site, where temples are listed alphabetically by major world region, 19 temples are listed as pertaining to Asia. That list includes Dubai UAE, which I am not accounting for, since that temple will be the first in the Middle East/Africa North Area, but it also excludes the Yigo Guam Temple, which may be geographically closer to western Africa, but is assigned to the Asia North Area. So the total thus far remains at 19.
With the recent announcements of temples for Cagayan de Oro, Davao, and Bacolod in the Philippines, the total number of temples in the Philippines area will be 7. Since the Church has a separate area under which the Philippines temples fall, I am not counting those either. That leaves the total number of temples to I will be refering at an even dozen, namely the following: Bangkok Thailand, Bengaluru India, Fukuoka Japan, Hong Kong China, Okinawa Japan, Phnom Penh Cambodia, Sapporo Japan, Seoul Korea, Shanghai China, Taipei Taiwan, Tokyo Japan, and Yigo Guam. Since no official rendering has been released for the Okinawa Japan or Shanghai China Temples, that leaves 10 about which I will comment in my analysis.
Of those 10, the following 6 have an angel Moroni: Fukuoka Japan, Hong Kong China, Sapporo Japan, Seoul Korea, Taipei Taiwan, and Tokyo Japan. Since 6/10 currently have an angel Moroni, that's 60% of the previously-dedicated temples that do. Yigo may be a more impoverished region, making the lack of inclusion of an angel Moroni a smart move. For Cambodia and India, the religious traditions that lean toward idolatrous practices makes the lack of such statues make sense. I believe Okinawa (and possibly even Shanghai, depending on the design thereof) could come complete with an angel Moroni. We may find out later on whether the angels on the top of Hong Kong and Tokyo will return. Just some additional thoughts from me, for whatever they might be worth to any who read them. Thanks.
@James
Good job with the analysis.
According to the news release quoted on Rick's temple site, the Hong Kong Temple's current spire and angel statue will be replaced with a small spire without a statue.
https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/hong-kong-china-temple/
Also, you said, "the Yigo Guam Temple, which may be geographically closer to western Africa, but is assigned to the Asia North Area." Was that a typo? Guam is in the Western Pacific, close to Asia or Australia, but not Africa.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guam#/media/File%3AGuam_on_the_globe_(Southeast_Asia_centered)_(small_islands_magnified).svg
@James
"I find it odd that an unofficial site containing some official information (the Church Temples site) has tended to be more accurate than the official Church website."
It's not that odd once you consider that Rick is doing his site as a labor of love, and so he can afford to take as much time with his hobby to be as accurate with the info as he wants. He doesn't have to answer to any department heads or follow any policy telling him what he can and can't post.
The official Church websites are a part of the bureaucratic administrative side of the Church, and so the employees have to wait and get approval from their bosses or leaders for what info the Church is ready to share. The employees also might not be as interested in the very specific accuracy of information that some of us are who follow Church growth as a hobby. Many are just doing their jobs, and once they're done, they move on to the next project their boss assigns them to. The administration ultimately makes the final decision as to what does and does not need to be published, and the employee gets paid the same either way, so there's not as much incentive for them to put extra info out that their bosses deem as unnecessary.
It's kind of like the difference between a company keeping its own records as a necessity, and an investigative journalist digging into the records for a specific story. Not that the company is intentionally hiding anything, but they won't necessarily publish info that they don't see as being pertinent to their bottom line.
Utah has instituted less social distancing than other parts of the US. It is less underlying health issues combined with a younger population that leads to less death. No other way to explain a death rate so low.
Jonathan Whiting, as part of my analysis, I had forgotten to consult the Church Temples site about Hong Kong and Tokyo. But I do recall reading the information you quoted about Hong Kong. Good catch. Thank you. You are also correct that I was not talking about Yigo Guam. I somehow cited Yigo Guam when the actual temple to which I was referring was the Praia Cabo Verde Temple. Geographically speaking, Cabo Verde is techincally part of the West African region of the world. But when it comes to the geographical divisions of the Church areas in that region, Cabo Verde falls within the boundaries of the Europe Area rather than the Africa West Area. I apologize for unintentionally misstating the details in this case. Thanks for catching that.
You are also correct in your reasoning that official information on an unofficial site is more likely to be accurate than some official Church sources due to the fact that individuals can devote more time to ensuring correct information as they work on their private personal labors of love. That is absolutely true with the Church Temples site, as it is with the content on my own blog that covers a wide array of Church information, data, and developments. I was very flattered at one point last year when one comment on my blog was like the Church news on steroids. And I have a lot more time to devote to the minutae of specific details now than I would if I were able to be presently employed, and thus far more time than those volunteers who update the Church website have.
The same is also true of this blog of Matt's. with the Cumorah Foundation being. a privately-funded Church growth initiative, although Matt works full-time, he is also able to devote much time and effort to content on this blog. When looked at in that light, it's not surprising at all. Another good catch. You can chalk up my misstatements on that to ongoing health issues and other stress. Thanks for asking for that clarification, Jonathan. I am grateful to have the chance to set the record straight.
I think a big part of the low mortality rate in Utah (the lowest in all the western states) is the adherence to the Word of Wisdom by a large percentage of the population. One of many factors, I know, but still I feel it is significant.
JMR, FWIW, as someone living in Utah that has seen parts or all of the daily COVID-19 briefings, I can also note that it is due to the early implementation of a strict "stay home, stay safe" initiative that was backed up by legal means that the virus in question has had a diminished impact here in Utah. Had it not been for those regulations, or for the many citizens here in Utah that honored the recommended directives, the effects of the pandemic would be far more widely felt, with far more devstating consequences.
It also helps that the leaders of the Church who are headquartered here were invited to take part in the governor's task force, and as such, had a front-row seat to observe what worked and what didn't. while that doesn't lessen the impact or power of the revelatory announcements which have come down the pike Churchwide in response to COVID-19, it did present a unique opportunity for the Church and its' leaders to be part of solutions that are working here, and may thus be helpful to be implemented elsewhere.
Just some thoughts from me on that, FWIW.
Utah has essentially 10% of the cases Michigan has but 1% of the deaths but 33% of the population.
Did Utah every shut down trax?
De Blasio has blood on his hands for encouraging people to ride the subway in New York City.
Detroit is by some measures denser than Salt Lake City. Yet we have nothing on San Francisco. Detroit is bigger than Manhattan, Boston and San Francisco combined by area but has less population than San Francisco.
Detroit has huge negative indicators of COPD. Asthma, diabetes, obesity and smoking.
Somewhere I read that COVID-19 tracks closely with the subway grid in greater New York City.
Hey, James!
Sorry it took so long to get back to you about this. Hope you are in better health now. Glad your blog has been getting good traffic.
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