Sunday, February 10, 2019

New Stake Created in the DR Congo; District Discontinued in South Dakota

Democratic Republic of the Congo
Last Sunday, the Church organized a new stake in the Kasai Region of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DR Congo). The Mwene-Ditu Democratic Republic of the Congo Stake was organized from the Mwene-Ditu Democratic Republic of the Congo District. All seven branches in the former stake were upgraded to wards based upon reports from local church leaders. The seven wards in the new stake are the Aerodrome, Bondoyi, Matshitshi, Musadi 1st, Musadi 2nd, Mwene-Ditu, and Peage Wards. The Church organized its first official branch in Mwene-Ditu in 2008 and organized branches in the city into a district in 2014. Today, there are now five stakes and one district in the Kasai Region of the DR Congo, which is located in the central part of the country. Three new stakes appear likely to be organized in the next few years in this region due to steady growth in Kananga, Luputa, and Mbuji-Mayi. The region appears likely to have its own temple announced within the foreseeable future, especially now that the Church has locally-trained construction teams who helped construct meetinghouses and the temple in Kinshasa, and a recent emphasis to bring temples closer to areas with sizable church membership. Elder Neil L. Andersen requested members prepare for a temple in the Kasai Region during a visit in 2016. Also, the Church is currently in the process of translating the Book of Mormon into Tshiluba - the most commonly spoken native language in the Kasai Region of the DR Congo.

South Dakota
The Church discontinued the Pierre South Dakota District in January. The district was originally organized in 1979 and included 11 branches prior to its discontinuation. Five branches (Cherry Creek, Faith, Pierre, Rosebud, and White River) were transferred to the Rapid City South Dakota Stake, whereas three branches (Chamberlain, Miller, and Winner) were transferred to the Sioux Falls South Dakota State, two branches (Eagle Butte and Gettysburg) were transferred to the Bismarck North Dakota Stake, and one branch (Valentine) was transferred to the Kearney Nebraska Stake. Most branches in the district appear to have 20-50 active members albeit the Pierre Branch had 120 active members in the mid-2010s. This change will permit the largest branches, such as Pierre, to become wards in the foreseeable future. It will also reduce leadership needs for branches in the former district by having stakes meet these needs instead of district and mission leadership.

The Church has reported some of its slowest growth in the United States in South Dakota. The last time a new stake was organized in the state was back in 1979 in Sioux Falls. Church membership has increased from 7,300 in 1987 to 10,626 in 2017, whereas the number of congregations in the state has decreased from 36 to 32 during this period. Church membership as a percentage of the population as slightly increased from 1.05% to 1.21%. The Church has especially struggled with growth on Native American reservations in the state in terms of member activity and leadership development.


John Pack Lambert said...

Michigan has also not had a new stake organized since 1979 although there have been two stakes organized since than that either take in parts of Michigan or were organized in part from stakes based in Michigan.

James Anderson said...

Pierre, pronounced more like the word 'pier', at some point was previously in the Rapid City stake but was discontiguous, it was surrounded by mission district, so the district had another name at some point previously too.

James said...

Thank you, Matt, for another great report. Interesting insight into the growth that has occurred/will yet occur in the DR Congo. If that is the case, then I can definitely see the Church creating an Africa Central Area either this year or next year. As to the prospect of a temple in the Kasai region, I had been aware of Elder Andersen's public proposal of one in 2016 as described in this post. But the question I keep coming back to is whether the Kasai region or Lubumbashi might be the next location for the second DR Congo Temple. With all we have heard about President Nelson's plans (which, as I mentioned in previous threads, may be detailed more fully in the upcoming April General Conference, especially given the fact that everything that needed to occur first has likely been done), I am sure both locations will get a temple at some point. But which might be the more imminent prospect? I have not seen any evidence from my research that the plans will initially involve multiple temples being simultaneously announced in any nation (outside the US) or state (inside the US), though that may be on the horizon within the next 5-10 years. So the question of the most likely location for the second DR Congo Temple is an interesting one.

I may have mentioned this previously, but my dad served in what was then the South Dakota Rapid City Mission, which at that time took in part of North Dakota and some areas in the surrounding states. I had been aware of that district being discontinued, so my question there is what that might do for the likelihood of a temple in South Dakota in the near future? When I last crunched the numbers, South Dakota made sense as a temple prospect in the near future primarily due to the distances involved (as a one-way trip for most of the Saints in that stake is well over the 200-mile maximum distance within which previous prophets have wanted each Church member to be). I don't know whether the discontinuation of the district would improve or diminish the likelihood of that prospect, but it is interesting to consider.

And in general, if we are looking at a substantial increase in the number of temples that will occur whenever President Nelson does detail his plans, then we are almost certain to see some surprising location announcements. It will be interesting to see all of that unfold.

Ryan Searcy said...

A Tongan friend of mine posted on Facebook today saying there was a new Tongan stake organized in the Salt Lake area. Not many other details were given.

Eduardo said...

I wonder how other organized religions are doing in South Dakota? It is hard place to keep people, based on facts like farmers need less people to grow their crops due to better technology, and probably ranchers, too.

I wish there were better outreach to the reservations. The Book of Mormon predictions of the people of Lehi blossoming as a rose is more evident in numbers among Latinos, Polynesians, and probably Filipinos. Still holding out hopes for my American and Canadian based First nation brethren.

Good stuff in Congo; new languages all the time.

Alex said...

Curious about people's thoughts on states without a temple. Arkansas has long been projected to be at the top of the list (esp. with Virginia getting a temple announcement). Places like Iowa, Mississippi, and Wisconsin all have multiple stakes in or around them that could be better served with a temple in their own borders. This would be my list of most likely states to get one, but I'm interested in thoughts about when we might see these places get one.

1. Arkansas
2. Iowa
3. Mississippi
4. Wisconsin
5. Kansas
6. South Dakota

James Anderson said...

I think that there will be a two-pronged approachL First to relieve busier temples, and the second prong will be to fill larger gaps between temples.

Heard just today of a temple in the North America Central area, not named, where one day there was a significant line for the baptistry before the temple opened for the day, which was described as going 'down the sidewalk, and past the fountain'. 5am was the normal opening time but the temple presidency opened at 430am. Over 300 youth came and there was a long wait for many to take their turn in the font, 300 or so. If each youth was baptized for five names, they got as many as 1500 done that morning alone.

James said...

Alex Compton, with the states you mentioned, I have been personally confident enough in what my research has shown to have candidate cities for each state listed among my personal selections for the April 2019 General Conference. Not sure how long you have followed this blog, but Matt has suggested a few times that Arkansas' first temple is likely to be built in Rogers. I personally disagree on that point, as I have a good friend who served his mission in Arkansas. Knowing of my interest in future temple locations, he kindly informed me that while on his mission, he had learned from members in Bentonville that the Church had had land set aside in that city for a temple when the right conditions were met. I know that Bentonville and Rogers are close enough to one another that a temple in either would likely serve both. At the same time, if the land had been in Rogers, my friend would have said so. So Bentonville, for that reason, is one of the top (if not the very top) contender for a US temple on my list. Iowa may also be a lock.

Since Council Bluffs is so close to Winter Quarters Nebraska, I am of the opinion that Des Monies would be the best location for a temple. The second stake in that city was named for nearby Mount Pisgah, which has a rich connection to the 1840s pioneer migration of the Church, so it would not shock me if a temple is built in Des Moines, and named the"Mount Pisgah Iowa Temple.

I favor Jackson Mississippi, Green Bay Wisconsin, Wichita Kansas, and Rapid City South Dakota for temples as well. But the ultimate imminence of the last 5 prospects I mentioned might depend on how soon President Nelson details the extent and time-frame of his plans. Given that only 4 (or possibly 5, if San Juan Puerto Rico is counted) of the 19 temples announced by President Nelson last year were for the United States or its' territories, and given that 85% of all temples announced since 2015 or so have been for international locations, I have a feeling that a big increase in announced temples for the US may only occur once the stagnant growth issue within the US clears up. The shift back to having 3-man area presidencies for the 8 North American areas of the Church last year may have been part of a push to reverse or remedy the issue of stangnation (which is getting better, but may have a ways to go yet before full resolution is achieved).

I hope these insights help to answer your question, and I apologize in advance to anyone who might take offense or objection to the length or tone of this comment. My thanks again to you all.

James Anderson said...

The temple in India could well be a catalyst for growth there, finding ancestors takes a whole different kettle of fish to find them, census records are nonexistent so tax records and something unique about those are how that will come.

James said...

James Anderson, if you learn which temple that was, be sure to let us know here. I think that the two-pronged approach you referenced may be the plan. The question is whether both prongs thereof would be implemented at once, or whether one would be favored before the other. AFAIK, there is no precedent either currently or in the recent past (within the last decade or so) which would point to the idea that more than one temple would be announced for any state within the US or nation outside of it in a single set of temple announcements. But depending on if and when President Nelson details his plans, to what extent they might actually go, and the time-frame within which such plans are anticipated to come to fruition, we could soon enter a period of time when multiple temples are once again under construction in a single state or nation simultaneously.

And in that regard, if the information to which I have access is correct, we might see that happen within the next couple of years with the Salta and Mendoza Argentina Temples, both of which have already had sites officially confirmed. Hope this additional comment is helpful to all who read it.

BryanBaird said...

My guess for the states 1st temples
Arkansas Little Rock
Iowa Des Moines
Mississippi either Tupelo or Jackson
Wisconsin Green Bay or Milwaukee
Kansas Topeka
South Dakota Rapid City or Sioux Falls

BryanBaird said...

I'm gonna add to the prediction list:
West Virginia Martinsburg
Maine Augusta
New Hampshire Manchester
Vermont Montpelier
Rhode Island Newport
If these states get temples then there would be temples in all 50 states.

Eric S. said...

Bryan, there is also New Jersey. From looking at the maps of where stakes are located, there appears to be 5 stakes headquartered in central and northern New Jersey. Four of them are assigned to the Manhattan Temple and the other is assigned to the Philadelphia Temple. The state's 6th stake is further south and is also assigned to Philadelphia. I can imagine that the traffic getting into Manhattan would be very busy so perhaps a future temple in northern New Jersey may be possible down the road. Not sure where, perhaps somewhere in the greater Newark metro area? Plus, the Manhattan Temple is a little over 20,000 square feet and has 8 stakes in Downstate New York that are assigned to it.

Eric S. said...

Oh, and there is also Delaware. That would make 13 states that have no temple yet. Alex, I would agree with the six you mentioned, in addition to probably West Virginia, New Jersey, and Maine. The other four (Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Delaware) are a bit harder to guess on when the potential likelihood would be, but the Lord is certainly known to surprise us! I think we will see temples in all 50 states one day.

Ryan Searcy said...

James Anderson, I am pretty sure that was the Guatemala City Temple. My grandparents served a brief mission there (they had to cut it short for safety reasons), but they were assigned to help in the Temple, and they described seeing the same lines you described when arriving at the temple. This was before the district was greatly reduced with the dedications of Quetzaltenango, San Salvador, and Tegucigalpa to relieve the Guatemala City Temple.

John Pack Lambert said...

Brother Gill, mentioned in the BYU magazine article above, was the first mission president in India.

John Pack Lambert said...

The new president of the Guatemala Coban Mission is not only from within the mission, he was serving as a counselor in the mission presidency at the time of his call. This is a fairly unusual occurance for a multi-mission country, although not too long ago the president of the Paris mission was from Paris. I also know of two people from Salt Lake who served as mission president there, David Chritensen, who my mission president was a counselor to and who came and spoke to my mission, and Richard G. Hinckley.

John Pack Lambert said...

If the mention was to the North America Central Area than the temples in that area are Carston, Calgary and Edmonton Alberta, Regina Saskatchewan, Billings, Montana; Fort Collins, Colorado; Denver, Colorado; Oklahoma City, Oklahoma; St. Louis, Missouri; Kansas City, Missouri; Bismark, North Dakota; St. Paul, Minnesota; Chicago, Illinois; Nauvoo, Illinois and Winter Quarters, Nebraska.

I strongly suspect Northwest Arkansas and not Little Rock will be the site of the first temple in the state. Little Rock is closer to Memphis, and it is northwest Arkansas that has seen the most church growth of late. Also there has been quite a bit of growth in Springfield, Missouri.

Gnesileah said...

"AFAIK, there is no precedent either currently or in the recent past (within the last decade or so) which would point to the idea that more than one temple would be announced for any state within the US or nation outside of it in a single set of temple announcements."

In late April 2008, the First Presidency announced The Gila Valley and Gilbert Arizona Temples, and the Phoenix Temple was announced the following month.

James said...

Gnesileah, your point is well taken. I had forgotten about the 3 Arizona temples announced by President Monson in April and May 2008. I had mentioned in a previous comment that South America, Africa, and the Philippines were exceptions outside the US to that general rule, as the states within the "Mormon corridor" are or have been for the last couple of decades, and that would certainly apply here as well. Good catch.

Another exception we have seen recently is not in simultaneous announcements, but in back-to-back sets of announcements. One new temple each has been announced for the Philippines and for Utah in the last 3 sets of announcements, and we have seen 1 new temple for Argentina with each of the last 2 sets of announcements. And those temples announced within the last year have filled in gaps and lowered mileage, so I anticipate that will continue as well.

Also, if anyone had told me this time last year that 3 new temples announced by President Nelson in one of the 2018 General Conferences would have their construction begin within less than 8 months of the time they were announced, then I would have dismissed that as impossible. That said, it is very good to see President Nelson set new "normal" trends for the Church, and I hope that will continue this year.

I would certainly anticipate either way that we will have more temples announced in both April and October of this year, and that the April General Conference is more likely to see President Nelson explain the extent and breadth of his plans, and the timing within which those might be coming to fruition, especially now that the preliminary work has been done to enable that to occur. That is why I have added so many new candidates to my list of temple prospects for the April General Conference.

And if I am correct about 2018's temple announcements being an initial "slow start", it would not shock me at all to see at least two or three times that number announced this year alone. I am in the preliminary stages of jotting down some additional thoughts by way of further analysis on the future of the temple-building program of the Church, which I hope to have published on my blog within the next couple of weeks. In the meantime, i look forward to seeing what other major news will be announced by the Church during that same period of time. If what I am hearing is any indication, then we may be in for many more surprises in the immediate future.

BryanBaird said...

Delaware Dover

James Anderson said...

They said 263k members in the Phoenix metro, most of that skews east, but there are only three temples, so a southwest Phoneix location is on my radar, location could be within the 303 corridor south of I-10, likely between that and where the 101 ends at I-10, they are planning for an additional freeway from the 202 west to past 303, and when you build a new freeway, it is like when they built the railroads, there is a lot of new development that follows.

On the east, a rumor has gone around that land on Ironwood close to an alignment for another new freeway SR-24, that should see construction start this year, is being held for a third east valley temple, approximately near Ironwood (Ganzel south of Ocotillo),

Andrew said...

From a former Delawarean: the need for and likelihood of a temple in Delaware is slim to none. Northern Delaware (Wilmington and Newark, one stake) is connected by rail to downtown Philadelphia and it is only 30 minutes by car to Philly. Central and Southern Delaware (Dover) has only one stake and is equidistant from DC and Philadelphia.

In RI, Providence would be the better location in terms of drivability. Newport is off the beaten path. However, Providence has only one stake, and a good portion of the stake is in Connecticut and closer to Hartford. Looks like along time before that would happen.

Brian McConnell said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Brian McConnell said...

Regarding the discontinuation of the Pierre (as mentioned earlier, pronounced 'Pier') District, please add the Philip Branch and Martin Branch to the list of 7 (vs. 5) branches added to the Rapid City South Dakota Stake.

FYI, the current temple presidency of the Bismarck North Dakota Temple are all former Bishops of the Rapid City Stake, all having lived in Rapid City proper.

Faithful Rapid City stake members have long trekked to distant temples as have many members of the church throughout the world. The Denver Temple was 425 miles from the Rapid City stake center; when the Billings Montana temple was announced, Rapid City Stake planned to attend there; with the announcement of the Bismarck Temple a mere 325 miles away, the brethren placed Rapid City in that temple district. Rapid City was invited to both the Billings Montana and Bismarck North Dakota Temple dedications.

Today, Rapid City faithful trek over 300 miles, even in the dead of winter, across two states on two lane roads to go to the temple. Many times, buses have been rented for youth and adults to keep that small temple open and operating at capacity. It is reminiscent of the Denver and Littleton Stakes of Colorado in the 1970s and 1980s, taking busloads of temple patrons to the Manti Utah Temple 490 miles away to perform sacred ordinances.

Personal note: I have a strong affinity for the dedication of the South Dakota saints, who sacrifice much to attend the temple. I served in the Rapid City SD stake presidency, served in the bishopric of a current temple presidency member, and served in the bishopric under a former Bismarck ND Temple president (my daughter's father in law). I drove the many miles from Rapid City to temples in Denver, Billings, and Bismarck, at times in the midst of snow storms. I attended the dedications of the Billings Montana temple and the Bismarck temple (where President Hickley declared to the Rapid City contingent "you need to grow!") I now have a daughter and son-in-law and 5 grandchildren traveling these same long distances to the temple. Many in the stake have lost dear friends due to treacherous long-distance travels - not on temple trips, but trips associated with long distance travel to Utah or California from Rapid City. Those remembrences weigh heavy on member's minds when they are called to serve 300+ miles north over icy roads.

I pray Rapid City gains a temple in the not too distant future. The Rapid City saints are temple trained, faithful, and prepared. And the local area has over three million visitors a year to Mount Rushmore, and many more to the scenic and historical sites of the Black Hills region.

Fredrick said...

My thoughts:

1. Arkansas - in the Bentonville/Rogers area to be announced anytime now.
2. Iowa - maybe, the in the Des Moines area. Depends on how Nauvoo Temple is dependant on
members from Cedar Rapids/Iowa City.
3. Mississippi - Jackson, not anytime soon. Would serve four stakes max.
4. Wisconsin - Madison likely, about as likely as Des Moines. Chicago too close to
5. Kansas - Wichita - not anytime soon. Would serve only 4 stakes max.
6. South Dakota - not anytime in the near future.

Keaton said...

Hi there. Long time follower first time posting. I live in Erie Pennsylvania. Our temple district is Palmyra NY which is roughly 209 miles with about 20 dollars of tolls if you take the main roads. Many people go to Columbus OH which is about 240’miles. I personally would love to see a temple in the Pittsburgh area. I think it could minister to the 3 stakes in Pittsburgh, Altoona PA, Youngstown OH, Clarksburg WV, and parts of the Jamestown NY stake. Either that or in the Cleveland area. Just wishful thinking. Thanks

James Anderson said...

Cleveland is the larger metro area that could get a temple along with Pittsburgh. Both could see an announcement but what order is the unknown. PA Turnpike raised the tolls there this year so it runs $50 each way to use it if you want to go to Philadelphia but most in Pittsburgh were going to Columbus anyway.

James said...

Matt, if you'd prefer that we move further discussion of future temple prospects elsewhere, please let me know. I'd be happy to start a new reddit topic covering that subject, or, based on what has been said here, it appears updates to my own list for the immediate future are once again needed, so further discussion could be moved to the threads of a new post on my blog in which I will be sharing such updates. If memory serves, you had established the reddit with the idea that the comment threads on this blog could specifically address the content published in the posts here, and anything else could be deferred to the reddit. If the ongoing discussion of likely future temple prospects is okay to continue here, that's not a problem, just thought I'd inquire. Either way, the latest comments have certainly given me plenty to think about personally, so my thanks to you all for that.

Eduardo said...

Yes, Pittsburgh should get its own temple. I think a small temple in South Dakota makes sense. The beauty of a mini (not tiny!) temple is that you set up sessions by appointment. Maybe it only does sessions one weekday and Fridays and Saturdays. Again, it is small by design. Should be a great year for more announcements.
Papua New Guinea is right there. I believe some other Polynesian islands should get some temples, too.

Eduardo said...

On the note of Cleveland, I wonder how the plans for a restoration-type building in or near Kirtland would be. I bet President Nelson and others have put sone thought to that.
Again, as always, Chile could use 3 or more more temples.
It is interesting to consider the number of missions per temple in states and countries. Chile has two temples with 10 missions. Some of the missions are pretty far from the temples. And the Vina del Mar Mission has enough members to support a temple. Bolivia is probably similar.

OC Surfer said...

When Bakersfield California creates its 4th Stake, I can see Bakersfield getting a temple serving possibly 8 stakes, Bakersfield, Bakersfield South, Bakersfield East, Bakersfield 4th Stake, Ridgecrest, Porterville. San Luis Obispo, Santa Maria Stakes.

Johnathan Whiting said...

Since we're doing Temple predictions early, here are some of my tentative April Conference predictions before I forget:

Likely for April 2019 General Conference:
Utah: Orem or Heber
1 in Wisconsin or Arkansas
1 in either California, Arizona, Washington or Texas
1 or 2 more in Brazil
1 other in South America
Africa: 1 in either Sierra Leone, Nigeria (Benin City), or Madagascar
Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia

Hopefuls next few years:
Missoula, Montana
Lexington Kentucky or Cincinnati Ohio
Vienna, Austria
Malaysia or Singapore
Tooele, UT
South Salt Lake Valley, UT (Herriman?)
Nampa, Idaho

Hopefuls my lifetime:
Springville/Mapleton Utah
Far West, Missouri
Blackfoot, Idaho
Evansville, Indiana
Great Falls, Montana
Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
New Delhi, India

Renovations/Upgrades (ones that I think will be announced soon, or that I'd like to see):
Salt Lake
Los Angeles
Louisville, KY
Spokane, Washington

ScottS said...

I am surprised that after everything Brian McConnell said people are still down on the idea of a temple in Rapid City. It wasn't one that I had on my top 10, but after reading about the faith and sacrifice of the saints there I put it 2nd after Arkansas in the US.

James Anderson said...

Provo they do six-week closures in the summer most years, from about 2000 they have been doing this and you can see the difference nearly every time they do this.

Logan, Manti, and Salt Lake are already on the drawing boards for renovation.

Far West, while it was dedicated during the early days, will be much closer to the end. Kansas City obviously is up and running.

Tooele and Heber are the next 'pair', Orem or Lindon for Utah County, Orem may be just above the cemetery by the old Murdock Canal? as I think there is some vacant land there, but I also know of a small number of orchards left near Center Street and 8th East there that could be bought and turned into a temple site. There are still a few places like that in Orem, so that is just an example.

Christopher Nicholson said...

I had a friend from South Dakota who said an Area Seventy told them at a stake conference that they would get a temple if they continued faithfully attending in Bismarck.

Keaton said...

I wonder if the expansion on the west side of Orem would be a good spot for a future temple, in Vinyard City. It would be close to the freeway and easier access for some saints

Ray said...

A new stake was reported today in the Utah Salt Lake City Area, resulting in 599 stakes for Utah at present. I wonder if it is a result of a division of one of the 2 Tongan stakes in Salt Lake County. Does anyone have that information? Thank you.

Nik said...

It might be safe to say that where there is a mission, there will be a temple. Not necessarily it all happening at once, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the plan.

Ryan Searcy said...

Ray, a Tongan friend of mine said on Facebook on Sunday that there was a new Tongan stake created.

Ray said...

Thanks, Ryan. Good to hear.

Johnathan Whiting said...

Seattle Temple undergoing maintenance:

Chris said...

Salt Lake Utah West (Tongan) Stake : posted today.,-111.895279&z=18&m=google.road&layers=temple,,temple.renovated,stakecenter&q=Salt%20Lake%20Utah%20West%20Stake%20(Tongan)&find=stake:2132877

Brian McConnell said...

Thanks, ScottS. Today I walk 6 houses down to the temple, but like many who have moved on, I will return to the Black Hills in an instant when a temple is nearby.

Brian McConnell said...

I have heard similar remarks, plus the President Hinckley quote from my previous post that I and my family heard as he came into the sealing room at the Bismarck North Dakota Temple dedication.

mormonchess said...

I have verified information about a new stake being created in Georgia. I looked for an email to send the owner of this blog the news, but I couldn't find it.

Johnathan Whiting said...


Matt usually checks the comments, so posting the info here is just as good as emailing.

Chris said...

@mormonchess..if you look to the right side of blog to list of stakes 2019. you will see #6 is Aiken South Carolina Stake, scheduled for Feb 17th (this Sunday), created from division of Augusta Georgia Stake on Georgia - South Carolina border.

coachodeeps said...

Brigham City Utah Temple had more than 100 youth come on a Saturday. They only did 2 games each. So, probably the same if there was 300. But, still advancing to see the youth embrace baptismal work so easily or readily. Now we need to fix the bottleneck of the endowment.

James Anderson said...

As far as numbers done per person, this appears to be before the submitted names pool change for from just that temple district to any names from anywhere rook place. The other issue may have been time of day, families time at the baptistry, or some other issue as that is a smaller baptistry having gone through during the open house.

BryanBaird said...

It does have space. I sometimes walk down Geneva just to look at the progress. I do see lots of homes and apartments built. If there is an Orem Temple in the future I think its district would be 800 South in Orem up. Including Vineyard and Lindon and probably a few Stakes in Provo. Vineyard is growing rapidly from about 130 in 2010 to 15,000 in 2018.

BryanBaird said...

From my street I can see the Provo Temple it would be kinda neat to watch the renovations. It was dedicated the same year as the Ogden temple in 1972 and Ogden was renovated and rededicated in 2014. I think Manti Logan and Salt Lake will go under renovations pretty soon probably after or during the same time as the St. George Temple

James Anderson said...

There are plans to build a Frontrunner station someday in the Vineyard area, in 2015 they finished a road over the tracks about where it will go, there is a place for trains to pass right now, all they have to do is build the station between the tracks there.

The tracks just north of that go very close to the lake, between the future station and the sewage plant a little further north. So they may want to be careful--potential groundwater issues but they solved that for Provo City Center and Urdaneta so that is not insurmountable.

Johnathan Whiting said...

So, guys and gals, speaking of potential temples, I was wondering if any of you thought the Brethren might transform another of the extant Tabernacles into a temple again, and if so, which one(s)?

Also, are there any other buildings currently owned by the Church (meeting houses, mission offices, stake centers, etc.), that you think might be upgraded to Temples.

Here's some lists of them for reference and/or review:

Johnathan Whiting said...

My personal vote would be for the Bountiful Tabernacle.

The main drawback I can see would be losing some of the original ornamentations from the main chapels by dividing up those spaces into temple rooms.

On the other hand, from what I saw when touring the Provo City Center Temple, the Church does a good job of preserving the essence of the original architecture while upgrading the building entirely. Also, the transformation ensures that these old buildings will continue to be preserved instead of sold off or eventually demolished.

James said...

The question is, would the Church opt to convert existing chapels or tabernacles into temples, or would it be easier to procure empty land for that purpose? From what I have heard, there are at least 10-20 cities in which land has been/is being held in reserve for prospective temples one day. And when such conversions have happened, it is usually only by necessity (for example, the Uintah Tabernacle was converted into the Vernal Utah Temple primarily because the tabernacle needed to be gutted anyways due to its' falling into disrepair. And the Provo Tabernacle was gutted by fire, with the determination made to renovate and repurpose the shell of that building as a temple.

I would imagine that the Church could exercise the option of converting tabernacles/MTCs which are no longer needed for the original purpose, if that proves to be a feasible option. But since it has been roughly 7.25 years since the intent to do such a conversion was last announced, I think that would be the very rare exception, rather than the rule. As I understand it, the Temple Department is consistently involved in the process of purchasing land that can be held in reserve until it is needed for a temple. It has been almost 14 full years (roughly 1.5 decades) since President Hinckley mentioned the Southwest Salt Lake Valley property with no announcement officially confirming that a temple will be built there.

My point in mentioning all of this is to suggest that there are definitive reasons why the Church has opted to build temples out of the shells of existing buildings, and right now, with what I know currently about the Church procuring property, I don't see any great likelihood that another such building conversion is on the horizon in the near future. The Lord has proven me wrong before in this regard, but time will tell.

And while there has been more recent precedent of the Church announcing a temple for a city that already has one operating, that is also the exception rather than the rule. With that in mind, it seems more likely in most cases that the focus will be on procuring unoccupied or repurposed land for temples in the future, as has been true in most cases within the recent past. I hope these insights, for what they are worth, are helpful to all who read them.

Whizzbang said...

My vote would be also a Temple in South Dakota, one in Ireland, one on Scotland and one in Mongolia. I live in the Winnipeg Canada Temple district and they estimate about 1200 active members with about iirc 500 or do endowed members and with 53% with a current recommend.

Johnathan Whiting said...


Right, and I get that it's unlikely that the Brethren will announce the conversion of any more tabernacles or existing buildings into temples. My comment was more about speculation than actual prophesy or prediction. Kind of like a fantasy pick more than something that will definitely happen.

Keep in mind, Vernal, Copenhagen, Manhattan, and Provo City Center were all unexpected announcements in one way or another.

Also, "At the groundbreaking ceremony for the Vernal Utah Temple, President Hinckley said that constructing a temple from an existing building was something "we've never done before and we are not likely to do again."'

And he said that before any of the other three temples built from existing buildings had even been announced, so you never know.

I just thought it would be a fun exercise. More of a: If you had a pick of an existing church building that might be made into a temple some day, what would it be?

One building that I'm fond of is the Ogden 4th Ward Chapel.