Wednesday, October 18, 2017

First Stake in Northern India to be Organized in November

Full-time missionaries report that the first stake in the India New Delhi Mission will be organized on November 5th. The New Delhi India Stake will be created from the New Delhi India District. Currently, the district has seven branches. The first branch in New Delhi (New Delhi 1st Branch) was organized in 1981. A second branch, the New Delhi 2nd Branch, opened in 1985 and the two branches were organized into the New Delhi India District in 1986. Additional branches in the New Delhi metropolitan area later opened, including the New Delhi 3rd Branch (1995), Dwarka (2008), Noida (2008), Pitampura (2009), and New Delhi 4th Branch (2010). Three of these branches - the Dwarka, Noida, and Pitampura Branches - were originally organized as member groups to help reduce travel times to the nearest LDS meetinghouse and to spur greater growth. Without this effort to organize these branches initially as member groups, it is unlikely that the Church in New Delhi would be currently able to meet the minimum criteria for a stake to be organized.

The New Delhi India Stake will be the fourth stake in India. Previously organized stakes in India currently operate in Hyderabad (2012), Bengaluru (2015), and Rajahmundry (2016). Missionaries anticipate that the fifth stake in India may be organized within the foreseeable future in Visakhapatnam; however, only four branches currently operate in the Visakhapatnam India District at present. The organization of the first stake in Pakistan also appears likely in the foreseeable future in either Islamabad or Lahore.

44 comments:

L. Chris Jones said...

Awesome, hope for a temple there very soon.

James said...

That is awesome, Matt! Thanks for sharing that with all of us. It is interesting to see what has happened with Church growth in India and elsewhere in the world. As for the prospects of a temple, I am cautiously optimistic that India may get a temple in the near future, but I can definitely see why Matt has previous stated that a temple in India may not happen for a while. It will be interesting to see events unfold in that regard.

John Pack Lambert said...

4 stakes in India might make a temple likely. It is insanely far from Thailand. 4 stakes was enough for Haiti to get a temple announcement. However Haiti's 4 stakes I believe are all in 1 metro area, while India's 4 stakes are quite spread out.

I dont remember exactly but it seems like Kinshasa was over 4 stakes before a temple was announced.

Also both Benin City at 6 and Lagos at 7 have more stakes alone than all of India. On the other hand at least 3 temples in Canada serve less than 4 stakes, with one of those having its district scheduled to split. So I could see a temple announced for India next year.

John Pack Lambert said...

The Santaquin Utah Stake now has 13 wards and a branch. It along with at least 2 of Utah's Tongan Stakes seem to be prime candidates for division.

James said...

Interesting thoughts, John! Thanks for sharing! It will be interesting to see what happens in terms of unit changes in the near and further-distant future. And I am sure Matt will continue to bring any and all developments regarding Church growth to our attention. I hope that the remaining 11 Sundays of this year are full of many new unit creations.

Michael Worley said...

Poll: will India's first temple be announced before or after Nigeria's second?

James said...

Michael, if my vote counts, I would say India will not get a temple for the next 15-30 years. I see Nigeria getting a second temple within the next 5-10 years, so I'd say Nigeria's second will be announced well in advance of India's first. That is based simply on my rudimentary understanding of how the Church has grown in both nations. Interesting question. Thanks for asking.

L. Chris Jones said...

The Temple in Winegep Manitoba is scheduled to have only one stake. There was no stake in Ukraine when it's temple was announced. Several temples have few very stakes.

L. Chris Jones said...

It looks like a couple of those Tongan Utah Stakes are very large and could split soon. Also in Idaho and Utah many YSA stakes have 12 wards and could split. I wonder if they haven't due to taking leadership from traditional stakes.

L. Chris Jones said...

Due to distance from nearest temple, India could have one sooner than later. But its stakes are more spread out, making that an obstacle. Also I'd like to find out about the laws and freedoms for building a religious building closed to the general public. Kenya with two stakes is getting a temple but will probably include Uganda's three stakes in that temple district.

L. Chris Jones said...

Nigeria has a small temple with a large number of stakes making it very likely to get a second or third temple the next few years. Maybe even expand the temple bin Aba.

Christopher Nicholson said...

None of India's stakes are even within 200 miles of each other, so I think that will delay a temple announcement.

James Anderson said...

YSA wards are often smaller, but zi know of one just inside Salt Lake City proper that is very large. YSA wards don't have YM/YW or primary, or a youth sunday school so they don't have all the callings they have to fill like regular wards do. It will depend on the size of the wards, and also like the BYU stakes, they may have more than the average number of units due to the smaller ward size.

A typical YSA bishop serves 3 years, a stake president 5.

John Pack Lambert said...

I have known YSA ward bishops to serve more than 5 years. The last YSA ward I was in our bishop and his predecessor had served a combined time of over 10 years, maybe it came to 12.

YSA wards and branches have lower minimum numbers thresholds for formation. On the other hand at BYU I knew of several with multiple elders quorums or relief societies in the ward. That said my brother was in a ward in Provo that was a regular geographical ward with two elders quorums. A large number of ward members were married students.

One issue with both YSA wards and YSA stakes is they tend to draw some leadership from people not in the ward. At times I have been told YSA branches can more easily draw single counselors. However I have seen YSA wards with YSAs as counselors in the bishopric. My impression is that in general YSA wards have a rule allowing counselors in the bishopric to not be high priests, but there is no rule preventing a YSA from being a high priest. I have known men who were made high priests when YSAs.

John Pack Lambert said...

I try to remember organizing new branches is not the ultimate goal of the gospel. Still I have to admit new units make me happy, and lost ones make me sad.

So so far the Church growth reports on lds church temples today are much more positive than yesterday.

There was a new ward created in the Philippines and a new branch created in Kenya. Branches were upgraded to wards in both Brazil and Germany.

John Pack Lambert said...

My impression is that with YSA stakes they aim for large size. At least in cases where the stake is fairly compact geographically.

Each YSA stake generally means at least 16 callings for priesthood holders not in the stake. 15 high council, 3 stake presidency and 1 patriarch. So tjere is good reason to keep high numbees of wards in YSA stakes. in places like Provo 10 or more seems pretty standard.

John Pack Lambert said...

Since there are Hindu temoles closed to the general public, access policies for the temple will not be a problem in India. Lacking any place with two stakes could be.

While an expanded temple in Ava might be the answer for the 25 or so stakes in south-east Nigeria, I more expect a response like with the even smaller Lima Peru Temple and seeing maybe Port Harcourt or Akwa Ibom getting a temple to relieve pressure on Aba.

However neither expanding Aba to 10 times its size nor building temples in both Port Harcourt and Akwa Ibom would help much for members in Benin City or Lagos.

Boise Temple district and Meridian Temple district will both have 16 stakes when the later is done, or 32 between the two. Nigeria Temple district has 43 stakes all on its own.

James said...

With my thanks to Matt for continuing to allow me to post links to my blog, where I "sound off" about the latest Church and temple developments, I wanted to note that, for any who are interested, I have done a number of additional posts there in the last week or so, covering topics such as temple progress, general Church news items, and my revised and expanded thoughts about the apostolic vacancy. If any of you would be interested in reading (and commenting on) any of these newer posts, I welcome any feedback you might have for me. My blog follows. Thanks.

http://stokessoundsoff.blogspot.com

MainTour said...

Today - Church announces more changes coming for our young missionaries. Little tidbit here says that every missionary needs a smartphone. http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormon-missionary-changes-2017?__prclt=1tEbBEy0

James Anderson said...

I saw the whole thing including the two documents. The iPads are more useful in teaching as a five-inch smartphone screen is harder to see when displaying an image or video (e. g. Bible video, First Vision painting). Even if no vision limitations exist, showing an appropriate video can help the investigator visualize what is being taught.

John Pack Lambert said...

I have the impression that the mission I live in has not as of yet implemented missionaries having electronic tablets. I am thinking these are more useful than smart phones.

On another note, the Church is in the process of removing the 79 missionaries in Madagascar for a time due to the outbreak of plague in that country.

John Pack Lambert said...

On further thought it does seem that smart phones have a lot of uses that tablets do not have. However they are not a good medium to show videos.

Apparently the number of missions will be somewhat reduced. That saddens me a bit, but I hope we still see increases in the number of missions in countries like Ivory Coast and the DR Congo. As well as seeing the Kenya and Uganda missions, both of which are sprawling multi-national missions, split up. The mission in the Republic of the Congo also seems a prime candidate for division.

John Pack Lambert said...

The church has just released a standard set of missionary interview questions. Apparently none existed in the past, which surprises me.

James Anderson said...

You can tell if a mission is using devices because the info they put in the digital area book will in some cases populate data into Leader and Clerk Resources and even if you are not in leadership to access that you may hear mention of that

A Facebook comment indicated that Paris France or close by got devices, but the shipment was stolen before they got it so they are not using them presently.

LDS Geographer said...

How do people have information about the Church in Pakistan? Meetinghouses are not labeled on LDS maps.
The Coimbatore District has 6 branches, perhaps it may become a stake earlier than Visakhapatnam, going by the number of branches?

James said...

The announcement of changes to the missionary program is something I welcome and appreciate. The world has moved well into the 21st century, and the Church is doing well in embracing and adapting to such changes. The standard questions for missionaries will ensure that they are prepared and fit in every way possible (physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, and socially). As for the mission consolidations, I can see why some people are saying it is sad. But the Church's announcement also stated that these changes have been under consideration for a long time now. The reason for the consolidations is because, in areas of the world that are more dangerous, fewer missions will enable missionaries to stay safe. In relation to that, the news release from the church announcing these changes made reference to the missionary safety surveys that were sent out a few months ago. With the consolidations that will happen, the missions that are left will be stronger in number, and therefore much safer. Some may also say these changes will take away from the potential success of every missionary. But think of this: This way, the Church, and our missionaries who represent us so well, will now be able to focus more on teaching the gospel to people who have a genuine interest in and/or are looking for what the Church has to offer rather than on tracting among people who have no such interest. That I can get on board with any day of the week. It will be interesting to see what happens with such consolidations. And the Church makes a fair point: The purpose of increasing missions was to have enough opportunities for all missionaries. While the numbers of missionaries worldwide has decreased in recent years, the Church still has more missionaries now than it did before the age change. It is awesome to think about all of this.

Gracie said...

I assume they work for the church if they can see the chapels in sensitive areas. Back when I was working for the church I could see all of that on the real estate focused database and on the property management focused database, the meetinghouse focused database and the CES one, if it was a property related to CES. They were always talking about consolidating databases but said the different departments care about different data. I've had no access to the system for more than 5 years now so I don't know what has changed, or what I remember right about all of the databases. But I once, briefly, made a chapel in Pakistan visible on LDS Maps, the classic one, before it was called classic. It didn't occur to me that it was not mapped on purpose but someone I worked with explained that, same day, and I took it down. I hope no one was looking while it was showing.

James Anderson said...

Someone told me something that was untrue, but it had been passed off as fact today about why people had and are leaving California. The gist of the falsehood that is being spread is that 'the Church does not want to be in California because of the wickedness there' and said this was particularly true of the Bay Area. They said this was such even with a temple there.

Well they are renovating the temple, and I have seen where Elder Andersen said that a temple in the land means there will also be faithful members there at the second coming (he said this at the Kinshasa groundbreaking). So the falsehood mentioned earlier is just that, falsehood, but eho is spreading it?

Ohhappydane33 said...

There is wickedness everywhere, even in the heart of Utah, and is in no way confined to California. It is stupid rumors like this, passed off as "fact," that drive me and many others nuts about fellow Church members. It is the cost of living that is the primary cause of members leaving the Bay Area (I happen to live there), simple as that. Utah has no shortage of wicked behavior. All one has to do is read the Utah news of seemingly endless stories of Church members ripping each other off, molesting children, you name it - all in the land of Zion.

Ohhappydane33 said...

Ps -If California is so *bad*, then that should be all the more reason the Church should want its "remaining" members to stay put, right?

James Anderson said...

Well if you look at what the Church has done, especially the last 20 years or so, building a number of temples in major California cities, and renovating one that is a landmark, as well as setting the example during the drought, and numerous other things, the church is definitely saying 'stay put' and not move, although individual circumstances sometimes dictate otherwise, job opportunities, the aforementioned cost of living, and a variety of other factors other than the moral climate, things happen, and those other factors are what is driving migration.

These same factors are driving everyone else out too, companies leave, a better job opens up elswhere, etc., so

Michael Worley said...

I agree with Dane and James 100%.

I think this talk supports their comments:

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ces-devotionals/2012/01/israel-israel-god-is-calling?lang=eng

"One of the many unique characteristics of our dispensation, this the dispensation of the fulness of times—the last and greatest of all dispensations—is the changing nature of how we establish the kingdom of God on earth. You see, one of the truly exciting things about this dispensation is that it is a time of mighty, accelerated change. And one thing that has changed is that the Church of God will never again flee. It will never again leave Ur in order to leave Haran, in order to leave Canaan, in order to leave Jerusalem, in order to leave England, in order to leave Kirtland, in order to leave Nauvoo, in order to go who knows where. "

Eduardo Clinch said...

Wickedness is everywhere, for sure. The United States is particularly blessed in that there is more wealth and less cankering corruption and less hunger and pestilence than other places.
Comparing Utah to other US places is somewhat a cannard, in my opinion. The crime rate tends to be much lower than comparable cohorts, but the same LDS population that many complain skews the news toward them also highlights a lot of faults that would otherwise not be noted anywhere else, like Feliz Dane alluded to.
There are about 1.4 million non-members in Utah, who along with the 1.7 million or so members have plenty of yahoos that sin and commit crimes like the rest of the world.
We preach and practice to not be caught up in the yahooism, and then promise that Christ our Redeemer, He can forgive us and improve our situations and conditions no matter where.

Ohhappydane33 said...

By the same token, I have heard theories that overall crime tends to be underreported in Utah, especially among Church members. Point being is that Utah, IMHO, is not all that particularly different than elsewhere. You can find nice people and jerks among every population and I feel the need to stick up for California, that gets continually mocked, criticized and put down for being so "evil". Utahns better hope all us California members don't move to Utah or we will push up real estate prices even higher there!

James Anderson said...

What the population here in Utah and the fact that only half are members, and most of the nonmembers live on and close to the Wasatch Front says we have a huge workto do. I am hoping to get stronger on account of the weakness left by a stroke last year so I can resume working to give out cards next year where I hsve said I've had success doing so. Can only do between a half and 3/4 mile comfortably and on generally level surfaces.

But imagine if we got most of the rest. A total of 35 to 40 temples and well over a thoudand stakes.

Eduardo Clinch said...

I happen to have family that live in Utah and California. Some have lived significant portions in both, as I have or more. I know of cars being stolen out of driveweays in California, not Utah. Or branch members having their house robbed and suspecting their neighbors. California.
I'm not trying to pick on one place, but the 40 or so million in sheer numbers also seems to make CA a bit more threatening than UT. Besides the anecdotes I can recount.
Me, I lost my wallet at a movie theatre and also lost my prized triple combination from seminary and the mission in Provo and they were returned by kind Samaritans.
I'm not saying Californians are not the same as far kindness and care, most of the ones I know are great; I married one and she gave birth to 3 others. No complaints.

John Pack Lambert said...

I did once meet a woman of Mexican descent (maybe even born there), I think working at DI in Utah, who told me she had moved to Utah from California to get away from the high crime rate. There was also a family in my ward here in Michigan that moved out of Escondido, California to flee the high crime rate.

On the other hand, a member of my stake presidency who crew up in Detroit because his dad was a Detroit cop told me they had their house broken into while they were at Church and felt they had been scopped out for the time they were away.

Some parts of California, such as Compton, have homicide rates much higher than Detroit, and Detroit has the highest violent crime rate of any "large city" in the US. On the other hand, California is the third largest state by area, and some parts of California are low crime, and others have low population densities.

My general impression is that cost of living is the number one factor that causes people to move out of California. Another one is congestion and desiring to live in a less built up area. In the 1980s some of these same factors caused population growth in some in-land parts of California. However since 1990 these factors have caused a lot of population shift ot Arizona, Utah, Idaho, Nevada, Colorado, Texas and many other states.

COnsidering how populated places like metro-Phoenix have become, it seems a bit hard to imagine some of these factors are driving the exodus from California any more. I have to admit to not having a strong grasp of what is causing population shifts in and around California at present.

John Pack Lambert said...

This article http://www.ocregister.com/2017/03/14/why-some-people-are-fleeing-southern-california/ starts with high taxes, high cost of living, and congestion. It then throws in gun laws and objection to California's new, fewer exemptions vaccination law. I suspect that the later two do not drive many moves.

John Pack Lambert said...

Housing prices may be the number one cause for leaving California. A closely related cause is the rise of telecomuting, and online linking of companies. I had an aunt and uncle who moved California for Arizona without changing jobs, courtesy of telecommuting.

James Anderson said...

I also head a general authority seventy say we have in the general Utah population 1.3 are active LDS, 1.3 less-active, and 1/3 nonmembers. If we got even half the less-actives back, that would still mean a few more temples as what we have now gets full to the gills on most evenings and Saturdays.

James said...

An earlier comment (whether on this thread or a different one) claimed that, in the Church global headquarters (here in Utah) that high crime rates are being ignored and downplayed. As a lifelong Utah citizen, I know that is not true. Each newscast (at least on KSL, which is partially or completely owned by the Church), many of the top stories have been about crimes committed here. Far from being swept under the rug, Utah citizens and leaders alike are working to combat the problems, which are just as significant here as anywhere else. The Beehive state is supposed to be the modern-day Zion, but perfect it definitely is not. And it seems that as the last days continue, the number of idiotic developments demanding media attention are becoming all the more widespread. Just wanted to add that thought. Utah may be called many things, but crime-oblivious? Hardly. Rather, the developments that do make the news are a combination of the best and the worst stories of the day, and that is a hard balance to achieve. Just wanted to add these thoughts.

John Pack Lambert said...

KSL is fully owned by the LDS Church. This is not to say that its operational decisions are meant to reflect the goals of the Church, but all ownership is held by the Church.

James said...

Far point, JPL, but still, the reason I (among many) prefer and look to KSL as a primary source for news is its balanced and measured mix of both the good and bad news of the day. There is enough awful news to report in Utah that that balance is hard to achieve, but KSL is one outlet that does so very well, in my opinion. Perhaps others don't agree with that assessment, but that is their right.

John Pack Lambert said...

I mainly look to the Deseret News more than KSL. However I read Deseret News more than my local paper.