tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post4241958013552053554..comments2024-03-19T01:34:05.989-06:00Comments on Growth of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church): Response to Mormon Stories Podcast - An Analysis of 2016 LDS Church Membership StatisticsMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16030323360917985701noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-11362713475791181602017-01-22T19:36:36.927-07:002017-01-22T19:36:36.927-07:00John, I just noticed all your questions about the ...John, I just noticed all your questions about the Spanish group in the Seaside 1st Ward, I presume. So all Spanish priesthood holders would assemble on the side of the stage for opening exercises before our respective classes. I am not sure what the youth who spoke Spanish would do third hour, boys or girls. In my experience in the Inland Empire of San Bernardino and Highland with Spanish-speaking Saints, youth generally knew English pretty well and they had adapted enough to US culture to be comfortable in English, but in these Spanish branches they would often have adult leaders that were more comfortable in Spanish, as they were used to speaking to their children that way in their homes.<br />When I was on the central coast near Monterey I was trying to learn Arabic as much as possible, and pehaps avoided too much Spanish involvement but still got tasked sometimes to translate for sacrament.<br />One good experience we had with a Latino family there was that an Anglo military family gave us their used car when they were sent to their NY duty station, and when my family left a year or so later we gave it to a humble, hard working laborer in that ward.<br />I checked for new ward buildings in Marina but no dice. There is a building further north in Watsonville, which from what I recall seemed to be a highly Hispanic community moving up the bay.Eduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05019747288076783700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-7345019275338500732017-01-22T14:53:25.940-07:002017-01-22T14:53:25.940-07:00Well said. I guess belittling someone's opinio...Well said. I guess belittling someone's opinions, beliefs, and personal experiences is difficult to separate from attacking or belittling the person that espouses said thoughts, "facts", and feelings.<br />I feel like Dehlin is pompous, rebellious, and wrong, but I attribute that more to what he espouses more than his actual person and character, but I readily admit that I, for one, find it difficult to figure out where his opinions stop and his character begins.<br />I think they are reflective of each other. And I don't like either. Respectfully.<br />If I am wrong for such judgments than I apologize for being incorrect. We all decide how we believe.<br />Wrong or right, it all boils down to what we choose.<br />I choose the Lord's faith. The way the Brethren administer it.Eduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05019747288076783700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-73374944209268123212017-01-21T20:44:31.878-07:002017-01-21T20:44:31.878-07:00We need to do more to promote and use postive to L...We need to do more to promote and use postive to LDS media. John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-37690214075613808892017-01-21T14:56:10.142-07:002017-01-21T14:56:10.142-07:00I just found some stuff on how popular podcasts ar...I just found some stuff on how popular podcasts are, and podcasts critical of the Church are more popular than many major podcasts on religion. <br /><br />I looked at the charts on stitcher.com, a site that has been around for years that aggregates them and allows you to string them up so they run like radio, and so far, none of the faithful Church podcasts, including feeds set up by Mormon Channel, or others set up by the Church, have ever shown up.<br /><br />A podcast called the Naked Mormonism podcast shows at #19, then comes Mormon Stories at #59 (I have seen it in the 40s before), then a Bookof Mormon podcast at #90, and that one is likely bad although there was no description on the chart page.<br /><br />The top religion podcast was about atheism, the #3 and #12 podcasts were also atheist.James Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12831340842937216806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-60056498182361301752017-01-21T07:28:24.431-07:002017-01-21T07:28:24.431-07:00I also have to say the Wikipedia articles on Brigh...I also have to say the Wikipedia articles on Brigham Young, Joseph Fielding Smith and Ezra Taft Benson give undue weight to controversial matters. <br /><br />The Wikipedia aeticle on Gordon B. Hinckley gives undue weight to the Mark Hofmann case while neglecting the much more important issue of the crestion of Areas.John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-71489108168592879452017-01-21T07:23:50.333-07:002017-01-21T07:23:50.333-07:00When I was on my mission there is was a Spanish-sp...When I was on my mission there is was a Spanish-speaking group in Henderson that has since been progressed to a branch. At one point there was a Spanish speaking group in Northville Ward in the Westland Michigan Stake that consisted of one couple and their children and children in law. <br /><br />In the neighboring Walled Lake Ward in my stake a year and a half ago the bishop was considering starting a Spanish-speaking group. They had just baptized a man of about 20 whose parents and maybe some of his sibblings were not at all fluent in English.John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-2751117623663795892017-01-21T07:19:08.833-07:002017-01-21T07:19:08.833-07:00Having served in that area is one reason why I do ...Having served in that area is one reason why I do share the fear of some that Hispanis are not integrating to our culture. Other things that cause me not to fear are things like how tje first person whose conception was a major television event was Desi Arnaz Jr whose mom was as Anglo as they come. Or the fact that I had a friend named Nicole Wojikowski whose mother was ethnically Mexican. Both my scoutmasters were Anglo men with Latina wives. John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-28964327183702331702017-01-21T07:14:23.757-07:002017-01-21T07:14:23.757-07:00Althogh keep in mind Hospanics percentage and Span...Althogh keep in mind Hospanics percentage and Spanish-speakers percentage are not the same. New Mexico has a high percentage of Gispanics but many know little or no Spanish. In my girlfriends branch there is a Brother Aguilar who is from Arizona and knows no Spanish. Only his Dad was of Mexican descent. I was in one area on my mission with at least two coupkes where the husband came from families that had been in the US sine where they were born was annexed. The one from Texas would say ohrases in Spanish but was fully functional in English. The one from New Mexico, Brother Sedillo, knew no Spanish. <br /><br />My supervisor for my job with Detroit Schools is a quarter Cuban but knows no Spanish. Come to think of it in that ward I was just mentioning there was another couple where the wife was either fulky or half Cuban. I went on splits with their 16-year-old son and am pretty sure he knew no Spanish.John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-2485955752978176372017-01-21T07:05:19.323-07:002017-01-21T07:05:19.323-07:00Would the Aaronic priesthood seperate by language ...Would the Aaronic priesthood seperate by language or just Melchezidek? Did the English and Spanish groups have seperate meetings for high priests and elders? With Sunday School did they hold both gospel doctrine and gospel principles in both languages. Did youth from Spanish-speaking families go to English youth Sunday School. If a 13-year old who didnt know English showed up would they send him to touth Sunday School in English and try to translate or would they send him to a Spanish-language class with adults? Was young women all combined without regar ro language?John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-46015707618648519422017-01-21T00:45:47.688-07:002017-01-21T00:45:47.688-07:00Interesting comments as always regarding the diver...Interesting comments as always regarding the diversity of the Church and the diversity of opinions expressed in response to things posted by Matt. I often think of the fact that the tone of this blog is so very different from the tone adopted by Wikipedia on Church-related matters. I have edited Wikipedia for ten years now, and the differing views there are profound. It is interesting to contrast my Wikipedia experience with this blog. Here comments and diverse opinions are expressed and (hopefully) respected. On Wikipedia, the dialogue is also respectful for the most part, but there is a huge difference. While we freely express on this blog our opinions on the "truth" behind any Church-related developments, on Wikipedia, the focus is not so much on what is true but what is verifiable. There are many things that have been widely accepted by the Wikipedia community in relation to the origins of the Church, the progress of the work, and the lives of its leaders, that, while not strictly true, are nonetheless accepted as truth by virtue of the fact that "reliable" sources have verified that information. In approaching my response to this unique situation, I have adopted an attitude that I share here in the hopes that it can be helpful in the continuing discussions and diverse expressions of opinion. It is the notion that we can disagree without become disagreeable. Differences of opinion are a natural fact of life. What is unnatural is when we belittle, degrade, or deride someone whose opinions may differ widely from our own. When disagreements or misunderstandings happen, as they will, I hope we can remember to be civil to everyone and respect their right to freely express their opinion, even if we may not agree with them in those expressions. For what it's worth, those are my thoughts. I happen to believe that John Dehlin is a very misguided individual whose motivations are selfish and all in view of the cause of discomforting the Church and its practices and discrediting the leaders thereof. As I have before observed, he seems to be one of many apostates who are notoriously known for leaving the Church without being able to leave it alone. Some see him as a renowned Mormon scholar. I accept their right to feel that way, even though I couldn't disagree more. In return, I ask that my opinion, whether it is shared or not, be respected in like manner. Thank you.James G. Stokeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13331619300918542708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-63184377810607282212017-01-20T18:04:14.501-07:002017-01-20T18:04:14.501-07:00are not belittling, but rather respectfully expres...are not belittling, but rather respectfully express my point of view. Dehlin is pushing for pseudo reform. So be it. As you say, to each his/her own.Eduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05019747288076783700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-64199313342324250752017-01-20T17:58:13.749-07:002017-01-20T17:58:13.749-07:00So is John Dehlin belittling the LDS Church at alm...So is John Dehlin belittling the LDS Church at almost every opportunity? Okay.<br />Do people who enjoy other services and claim LDS hymns and LDS practices are too boring or lack Godly or whatever entertainment qualities belittle a few millions of practioners today? Fine.<br />I hope my thoughts Eduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05019747288076783700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-82568220650488572902017-01-20T09:34:34.668-07:002017-01-20T09:34:34.668-07:00My last ward was similar. We had a deaf group. We ...My last ward was similar. We had a deaf group. We had interpreters in sacrament meeting. They held their own Priesthood, relief society, and Sunday school. They did join the combined meetings on then fifth Sunday.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-13123466907263180922017-01-20T08:41:07.023-07:002017-01-20T08:41:07.023-07:00I just love reading all these varying views, opini...I just love reading all these varying views, opinions and perspectives!! It is human nature to think that the way we see/experience/perceive things is the way it is - and this feed is evidence that those perceptions vary widely. Believe what you want to believe - pick and choose the statistics you like to back up your belief system...and then, respect when others do the same and come to different conclusions, without belittling them. I enjoyed the Mormon Stories broadcast and also enjoyed this additional information. Thank you!<br />Amy Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15453061553811518080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-15429051261624069302017-01-20T04:45:24.375-07:002017-01-20T04:45:24.375-07:00Meant to say large numbers of Spanish speakers in ...Meant to say large numbers of Spanish speakers in Sterling. Reston, of the 3, probably has the lowest percentage of Hispanics.Eduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05019747288076783700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-65580319105142251332017-01-20T04:33:12.790-07:002017-01-20T04:33:12.790-07:00In Seaside California we would have translators si...In Seaside California we would have translators sit in the back of the congregation and translate into Spanish during sacrament. Then Sunday school and priesthood would separate for Spanish only, except for the 15 or so minutes of combined priesthood. Interesting note, there was a Tongan branch at that building, and a new church building was being planned up the coast in Marina, CA. I should check how those units are now.<br />A Spanish group in Leesburg VA is trying to move along, but it appears they lack robust priesthood. The Spanish ward in the nearby Oakton Stake seems to be doing okay but not sure of the numbers. It is located in Reston, and there are large numbers of Latinos in nearby Herndon and Reston.Eduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05019747288076783700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-54972622672309846342017-01-19T20:25:06.907-07:002017-01-19T20:25:06.907-07:00It is also possible that a rising generation that ...It is also possible that a rising generation that functions well in English and the death of the older generation that does not has lead to these changes. <br /><br />John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-60812504156800477562017-01-19T20:23:08.882-07:002017-01-19T20:23:08.882-07:00While the changes in Northern Arizona may be due t...While the changes in Northern Arizona may be due to decisions to move the Spanish-language units from branches to groups, possibly while making more of them so that either A-people have to travel less or B-there is some level of total unity of members in an area without regard to language, there may be other causes.<br /><br />I have read some reports that suggest that recently there has been a net migration from the US to Mexico, so the number of Spanish-speakers may be declining in those areas. Spanish branches often are built around one key family, so if they move away the branch can no longer function. <br /><br />John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-51241170678175230282017-01-19T20:19:30.794-07:002017-01-19T20:19:30.794-07:00plan 2 can also be done where instead of seperate ...plan 2 can also be done where instead of seperate English and Spanish wards/branches, you have an English language ward (or branch) with a Spanish-language group under it. You can have two seperate (or in theory more) by language sacrament meetings within the same ward/branch. I believe I once read of a case of a ward in New Mexico where they had seperate Spanish Sunday School, but relief society and priesthood united both English and Spanish speakers.<br /><br />John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-7559223403326008382017-01-19T20:15:30.160-07:002017-01-19T20:15:30.160-07:00Policies on how to treat the Spanish-speaking popu...Policies on how to treat the Spanish-speaking population in the Church have gone through various cycles, with different levels of localized integration tried in various locations. <br /><br />There are lots of ways to do this. One is fully seperate wards/branches. Even these beg the question of how big they should be. Do you cover all of a stake, part of a stake, multiple stakes, etc. <br /><br />A second is seperate wards/branches that hold some programs jointly with English language units, often Primary and youth programs. This was the relationship of the two Stamford Connecticut units when I visited. The draw back is that this often excludes only Spanish-speaking adults from youth leadership positions, unless high levels of really attempting to integrate the system are engaged in. In theory it might also exclude those adults who know only English from youth leadership positions. It will probably work best if you have a number of people who are both Anglo and Hispanic or at least large numbers of people who are bilingual. <br /><br />A third method is what is done in the Detroit River Branch and what was done in any Spanish-related units in West Las Vegas when I started my mission. This is having bilingual sacrament meeting. You can either do this with instantaneous translation, which is hard to pull off, and will generally present one group as the main language, or with in sync translation. This is what you need if the group is about balanced, or to avoid anyone feeling special. Someone gives a paragraph of a talk, than the translation in the other language is given, either by the speaker or a translator, probably normally the later but one person could speak both languages. The draw-back to this method is that only half as much is said, and many people do not understand what is said half the time. Of course volume of speech is not always a plus, so maybe allowing/forcing people to make shorter, more concise talks leads to better talks.<br /><br />Each system has pluses and minuses which is why all three have existed.<br /><br />John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-60763585932401690312017-01-19T18:44:22.406-07:002017-01-19T18:44:22.406-07:00In my experience attending a Spanish Branch in Cal...In my experience attending a Spanish Branch in California for two years, the younger generations integrate into English pretty effectively, and therefore the numbers are harder to support without more new immigrants and converts.Eduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05019747288076783700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-56753161759694562382017-01-19T17:05:01.960-07:002017-01-19T17:05:01.960-07:00Seeing as we are talking about Spanish units, does...Seeing as we are talking about Spanish units, does anyone know why there were so many Spanish branches discontinued in central/northern Arizona in the last two years. The ones in Flagstaff, Prescott, and Cottonwood were all discontinued. There may have been one in Snowflake too that was discontinued also. Now the only one north of Metro Phoenix but still in Arizona is in Payson. Is there a church policy to discontinue Spanish branches in the United States in favor of Spanish groups within wards in some areas?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16209264963980372269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-89135511240102622442017-01-18T23:28:16.568-07:002017-01-18T23:28:16.568-07:00Gnesileah, those are some interesting statistics. ...Gnesileah, those are some interesting statistics. How intriguing! Thanks so much for sharing that. Loved reading what you said on those numbers. That's awesome! And I love what you said about the idea of potential renovations for the temples in Mesa, Hamilton, and Oakland. While I have no small knowledge of what a temple status indicates about the potential time period in which it might be completed, and while I have been able to predict with greater accuracy many recent temple sites, and while my blog has become more centered on past, present, and future temple-related developments (to the point where I have been told that my blog has recently become one of the top Google search results for such developments), I have no idea when future temples might be renovated. I was one of the ones who was most greatly surprised by the Church's announced intention to redesign and completely overhaul the Ogden Utah temple, and each time a temple renovation is scheduled, it amazes me. As a former temple worker at the Mout Timpanogos Utah temple, I can attest to the minor changes that are made to temples during their biannual closures that, while not sufficient to warrant a renovation and rededication, still change the look and feel of a temple. I feel certain that we may soon see renovations for several temples, and not just Mesa, Hamilton, and Oakland.<br /><br />The one question in my mind that has been discussed in the past but not to my satisfaction is whether or not the Provo Utah temple will be renovated and overhauled in the same way that Ogden was. But it is interesting to consider that, barring an announcement of another renovation, we could have no operating temples undergoing renovation by early next year. I think we will see more renovations announced this year, but there's really no solid way to know for sure.<br /><br />And thanks for the tidbit about wards being downgraded to branches and branches being upgraded to wards. I am glad someone is keeping track of all that. I have, in preparation for April General Conference, assembled a list of what I believe the year-end Church statistics for 2016 were. Two of my favorite things about April General Conference are the annual statistical report and hearing the assertion of the Managing Director of the Church Auditing Department that the Church is still in sound fiancial condition.<br /><br />I am excited for April General Conference for many reasons. We may see a new Relief Society General Presidency, new General Authority and Area Seventies, and perhaps even a few new temples. I do know that even though Area Seventies do not serve for any set length, we have many that have been in for a while. And while it is next to impossible to figure out how many Area Seventies will be released and sustained, I do know of several that were among those called to be mission presidents, which will make their releases necessary.<br /><br />In terms of native Spanish speakers attending English-speaking units, we had a prime example like that in my parent's ward growing up. The man's English was sufficient that he could make comments in Sunday School and Priesthood if he wanted to, but when asked to pray during Church meetings, he had approval to do those prayers in Spanish. And it was neat to hear someone pray in a language that was not my own, to realize I understood some of what he was saying, and to feel in my heart that he was praying from his when I didn't understand the words. It was awesome. I will never forget it.James G. Stokeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13331619300918542708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-8168440504441234852017-01-18T20:44:28.563-07:002017-01-18T20:44:28.563-07:00Large numbers of native Spanish speakers attend En...Large numbers of native Spanish speakers attend English-language Church units. This was quite common in Las Vegas where there were Spanish-speaking units. Here in Metro-Detroit there is a bilingual ward, the Detroit River Branch which as far as I know is just geographical. In Lansing Michigan the Spanish-speakers are in multiple wards. I know in some areas those who are proficient in English are strongly encouraged to go to English-speaking units.<br /><br />I know in at least the Bronx a high percentage of members in the English-speaking units are Hispanic. The percentage who have Spanish as their first language is probably lower but still significant.<br /><br />My stake has no Spanish-speaking units but probably has a higher percentage of members who are native Spanish speakers than in the population overall. John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-54143127337393638182017-01-18T11:46:20.271-07:002017-01-18T11:46:20.271-07:00In 2013/14, 473 known branches were upgraded to wa...In 2013/14, 473 known branches were upgraded to wards; 46 wards were downgraded to branches.<br />In 2015, 248 upgraded / 25 downgraded<br />In 2016, 278 upgraded / 35 downgradedGnesileahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17757196258988210760noreply@blogger.com