tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post3674873024159426830..comments2024-03-27T17:28:09.345-06:00Comments on Growth of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church): October 2018 New Temple Announcements - AnalysisMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16030323360917985701noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-46019087529403592122018-10-19T12:54:52.429-06:002018-10-19T12:54:52.429-06:00James A., I hope my post did not come across as cr...James A., I hope my post did not come across as critical. If it did I apologize.<br /><br />My chapel has two wards, which have been at 9 and 11 for as long as I've been here (12 years), alternating schedules every year (my ward currently meets at 11). It has been announced that next year the other ward will still meet at 11, but mine will change to 9:30.twinnumerounohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05339551175116474947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-84545708716655174182018-10-17T21:31:00.019-06:002018-10-17T21:31:00.019-06:00L. Chris Jones, in the FAQs (which were among the ...L. Chris Jones, in the FAQs (which were among the materials I posted from the Newsroom website in a previous comment, the material specifically says "sharing time is discontinued". Primary will now just consist of singing time and class time. Alternating every two weeks like the adults do would be impractical for the Primary because children that age need consistency, or it tends to get too confusing. I hope that, among other things, the 2-hour block as it will start next year will help eliminate congestion in the hallways between meetings. I am grateful that, in the midst of this change, discretion of particulars (such as having a combined Junior and Senior Primary in a single ward, or having two wards in the same building hold the Primary hour together when needed) is left up to local leaders. It will be interesting to see what occurs with buildings such as where my ward meets. As I have previously mentioned, we only have one other ward in our building, which is on the smaller side. They might do 9:00 AM and 11:30 AM, which would allow Church services to conclude before 2:00 PM. Right now, we do 9:00 AM and 1:00 PM.James G. Stokeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13331619300918542708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-34765336239394663102018-10-17T20:30:12.276-06:002018-10-17T20:30:12.276-06:00So I was off on my timings for those longer ones a...So I was off on my timings for those longer ones and I didn't know the one ran seven minutes. But knowing which one it is reasonable. These are all taken at tempos exactly in the middle the printed tempo range printed at the top of each hymn so actual running time in a given meeting may vary depending on who is conducting, etc.James Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12831340842937216806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-69043663142881638242018-10-17T13:39:02.169-06:002018-10-17T13:39:02.169-06:00James A., I have the Hymns downloaded onto my comp...James A., I have the Hymns downloaded onto my computer, and your post got me curious, so I pulled up Windows Media Player and discovered I can sort the hymns by length. (If this post is more detailed than people care to read, I apologize. Obviously not everyone has the same interest in music that I do.)<br /><br />First, the details did not seems to match what you said. Were you using a CD with just a selection of hymns? WMP on my computer lists The Spirit of God as the 4th longest, at 5:55 (with Though Deepening Trials at 7:22 as the longest, and A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief and How Firm a Foundation, both over 6 minutes, as #2 and #3), and I Believe in Christ as the 12th longest, at 4:59; #5 - 11 include Dear to the Heart of the Shepherd, The Wintry Day Descending to its Close and Nearer My God to Thee, among others (a couple of the sacrament hymns take the 10 and 11 spots, as just barely longer than I Believe in Christ). Obviously, of course, the length depends on how many verses are used and how fast they are played.<br /><br />I also counted and found 35 hymns that are longer than 4 minutes, that's just over 10% of the hymns in the current hymnal (24 of those 35 are more than 4 and less than 5 minutes). Perhaps we could keep intermediate hymns if we specify that it has to be a short one, or just one or two verses. (I think you are correct that the average length is between 2-3 minutes; it appears to me that the middle of the sorted list is at about the 2:45 length. We actually have two hymns that are less than 1 minute, # 154 and 160 which are both hymns that I doubt many members know.)twinnumerounohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05339551175116474947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-79129266884262670622018-10-16T12:01:37.839-06:002018-10-16T12:01:37.839-06:00An intermediate hymn usually takes about three min...An intermediate hymn usually takes about three minutes to sing through. On the accompaniment CDs, the longest hymns are The Spirit of God and I Believe in Christ. Most come in between two and three minutes, and a few somewhat less. There are also a few, but not many, over 4 minutes. <br /><br />So we may be able to lessen the burden on speakers by having them speak a couple minutes less but that is not noticeable by an average congregation, nor is the time it takes to sing a hymn, the only time the time a hymn is taken to be sung is noticed is when the time does not match up one way or the other with the time it take the priesthood to break the bread for the sacrament.James Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12831340842937216806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-15004659665957386622018-10-16T10:34:25.682-06:002018-10-16T10:34:25.682-06:00My bishop said we may need to do away with interme...My bishop said we may need to do away with intermediate hymns, but he wants to still keep the choir performance on high council Sunday. (He is actually a member of the choir but frequently does not make it to practice due to his bishop duties.)twinnumerounohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05339551175116474947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-32687021312864699682018-10-16T10:20:21.716-06:002018-10-16T10:20:21.716-06:00Primary, likely not, as they get close to the same...Primary, likely not, as they get close to the same time as adults in each half every month. Also it is better for younger children to get the lessons in smaller bites than a full 50-minute lesson would do.<br /><br />But they also get something more than adults or youth will get, music. A number of bishops are already doing away with choirs, musical numbers, and intermediate hymns, misinterpreting the instructions everyone got that day about that aspect of sacrament meeting and other meetings. The instructionsm however, did recognize known challenges in ward music, but did not say don't do church music outside opening, sacrament, and closing hymns. James Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12831340842937216806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-60814642897922559012018-10-14T19:40:26.595-06:002018-10-14T19:40:26.595-06:00Could primary do the same as adults. switch sharin...Could primary do the same as adults. switch sharing time and class every other week. Between Junior and senior primary?L. Chris Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18292490633853296086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-63601715146461792322018-10-14T19:38:19.349-06:002018-10-14T19:38:19.349-06:00A few years ago I was in a building in Idaho Falls...A few years ago I was in a building in Idaho Falls that had two wards one at 9:00 and one at 1:00. The parking lot was small so the wards could not over lap.L. Chris Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18292490633853296086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-89614572614016212402018-10-14T17:30:20.323-06:002018-10-14T17:30:20.323-06:00Yes, there are some rather old ones that have inef...Yes, there are some rather old ones that have inefficient HVAC and older fixtures especially in Utah and close by. One I know of is already having problems, they have an old boiler from when it was built and is larger than buildings built since the mid 69s, it having been built in the 1950s.<br /><br />They could close those for a time and if they run wards every 90 minutes they could run five or even six easily in other buildings in the short term.James Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12831340842937216806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-46065476864726601962018-10-14T09:52:18.100-06:002018-10-14T09:52:18.100-06:00One thing that sometimes happens is buildings need...One thing that sometimes happens is buildings need to be renovated and rebuilt. The new schedule will help in such cases have a lot easier to use schedules. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07776353426882099610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-29243208063183139342018-10-14T09:50:06.409-06:002018-10-14T09:50:06.409-06:00The new schedule does elimanate the gospel princip...The new schedule does elimanate the gospel principals class. In some wards this will be a plus. I do think some wards wouldbe helped by having multiple gospel doctrine classes but they should not let one be where new members are shunted. <br /><br />The comment about early meetings makes me think that the new schedule will not be used to create more wards in some buildings. It will probably in some cases but not in many. More so in Utah, Idaho and Arizona than anywhere else.<br /> In California where at times some buildings have been built to have 8 wards the decline in the number of units suggests the Church will probably not need to redo building usage. I am thinking the new schedule will make it so the schedule my grandparents ward had of 4 to 7 church will not happen again. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07776353426882099610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-54752000601777685522018-10-13T13:40:30.103-06:002018-10-13T13:40:30.103-06:00Primary can still be split into two groups: "...Primary can still be split into two groups: "Note: If a Primary is large enough to separate into junior and senior Primary, the schedule above can be reversed for half of the children and times adjusted as needed. Junior Primary may begin with singing time while senior Primary begins with classes—or vice versa." (Question 8 located on page 4: https://www.lds.org/bc/content/ldsorg/general-conference/16435_000_FAQ.pdf?lang=eng )Deivisashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11222270727935678513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-25714815812400243252018-10-11T22:21:29.151-06:002018-10-11T22:21:29.151-06:00One thing which may prevent smaller buildings is t...One thing which may prevent smaller buildings is the fact that all Primary class times are at the same time. In many buildings today, Junior Primary and Senior Primary overlap the same rooms because their classes occur at different times. Now each will need its own class or more ages would need to be combined. Bkfarnbachjourneyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00899680840301599349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-32159008972338918702018-10-11T17:03:35.456-06:002018-10-11T17:03:35.456-06:00There was in about 1908 a mass migration of a grou...There was in about 1908 a mass migration of a group of Latter-day Saints from Idaho to a farming area just south of Gridley. It is one of the last places that was settled by Latter-day Saints moving there as a group. This gives me hope Gilmer, Texas will soon get a temple. Enoch and another town near it were both settled as places for the saints in the Southern States mission in the 1890s. Those towns no longer exist, but Gilmer has one of the highest numbers of Latter-day Saints per capita in east Texas.John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-50637211686281351532018-10-11T10:48:32.931-06:002018-10-11T10:48:32.931-06:00I think that's up to your stake president. Our...I think that's up to your stake president. Our ward building in Gilbert, AZ start at 8 am. I live the 8 am start time. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02544073598379921971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-55360910173384226622018-10-11T00:47:16.685-06:002018-10-11T00:47:16.685-06:00https://ia600305.us.archive.org/26/items/HistoryOf...https://ia600305.us.archive.org/26/items/HistoryOfTheL.d.s.ChurchInTheGridleyCaliforniaArea/HistoryOfTheGridleyStake.pdf<br /><br />Check out page 30 of this pdf. Sacramento and Gridley Stake were organized the same weekend in 1934 as the first two northern ca stakes north of San Francisco. The Yuba City and Chico Stakes split from Gridley about 40 years ago.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195848358946005216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-15517674526888421352018-10-10T23:58:05.969-06:002018-10-10T23:58:05.969-06:00May even look like this in some places: 8:30, 10:0...May even look like this in some places: 8:30, 10:00, 11:30, 1:00 (and maybe even 2:30 at times).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195848358946005216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-64723417108917711862018-10-10T20:47:37.353-06:002018-10-10T20:47:37.353-06:00The Sacramento Bee, when reporting about the Yuba ...The Sacramento Bee, when reporting about the Yuba City Temple, mentioned: "Yuba City, a town whose origin is steeped in the legacy of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"<br /><br />I guess they consider Samuel Brannan one of the founders of Yuba City. They have a city park named after him. He was a leader of the group of saints that immigrated west on the Ship Brooklyn that sailed around South America and docked in San Francisco. He was involved in the California 1849 gold rush and settled in California. He was eventually excommunicated from the Church. <br /><br />I wonder if that history had any effect on choosing Yuba City as a site for a temple. <br />Cory https://www.blogger.com/profile/03678440844474809366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-56522217144981880612018-10-10T20:37:38.029-06:002018-10-10T20:37:38.029-06:00Most meetinghouses with three wards will probably ...Most meetinghouses with three wards will probably follow a 9:00, 10:30 and 12:00 Schedule. Here is a link to the FAQ document about meetinghouse schedules:<br />https://www.lds.org/bc/content/ldsorg/general-conference/16496_000_Sunday_Scheduling_Options.pdf?lang=eng<br /><br />Although the document only outlines the suggested schedules for meetinghouses that have 3 wards, the document title refers to four wards occupying a meeting house. Currently only a few meetinghouses have four wards meeting in them. Usually it is common in, but not limited to, places with high membership concentrations and new housing developments. Currently, eastern St. George and Washington City, Utah have a number of meetinghouses with a four ward configuration. Often this situation was is not ideal and the wards are usually waiting for a new meetinghouse to be organized. With these changes, I expect that the meetinghouse construction will slow in places like Utah, Arizona, and other parts of the United States where four wards to a building is more feasible, due to close distances and a high amount of members owning cars. The meetinghouse schedule will probably look like this: <br />8:30, 10:00, 12:30, and 2:00.<br /><br />2:00 pm church still gets over at 4:00, the same time that 1:00 church currently gets out. It all depends on whether the church prioritizes earlier schedules or high capacity meetinghouses. I suppose the main obstacle would be bishops having to share offices or having to convert classrooms into a bishop offices. Perhaps newer designs will feature 4 offices. <br /><br />In some parts of the World, some church buildings could be built smaller. I served my mission in a city which had its two wards meet at 9:00 and 1:00 because they could not overlap, due to Sunday school and primary being held in the chapel. Now, the small building could have the capacity of three wards if they follow the Nonoverlapping schedule referred to on the document: 8:30, 11:00 and 1:30. <br /><br />That being said, I hope the church doesn't become austere in meetinghouse construction. In nations were driving is a luxury and transportation takes up a more of a percentage of income, it is important to have accessible meetinghouses.Cory https://www.blogger.com/profile/03678440844474809366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-18178275801354009442018-10-10T17:25:03.337-06:002018-10-10T17:25:03.337-06:00The material I have read seems to indicate that an...The material I have read seems to indicate that any changes to what has been the standard schedule for chapels around the world will be based on local needs as determined through the discretion of local leadership. Additionally, however, after General Conference last April, the Church released two different sets of FAQs about the changes that were announced. For that reason, if any further clarification is needed to deal with unclear issues, I am sure Church leaders will release another set of FAQs on this change to the 2-hour block.<br /><br />And finally, just an observation on future temple districts: While there are some clear indicators as far as which units may go to which temples, I for one am most grateful that the determination of the size and composition of each new temple district is one made by general Church leaders. It seems that many of the 31 or 32 temples that have not yet begun construction, along with the 11 others in various stages of construction, could easily split the districts of currently operating temples roughly in half. And given, as one example, that the current temple districts in Manila and Cebu City Philippines will look entirely different after the temples in Urdaneta, Muntinlupa City, Cagayan de Oro, and Davao are built and dedicated, then many of the other announced temples will likely have a similar effect on existing districts, perhaps to an extent which we cannot currently foresee. Hope these insights are helpful to everyone who reads them.James G. Stokeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13331619300918542708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-92071568558731801812018-10-10T17:24:45.694-06:002018-10-10T17:24:45.694-06:00@Tyler Alley, while reduced costs of operating mee...@Tyler Alley, while reduced costs of operating meetinghouses will surely play into the Church's ability to expand temples in the future, I know (from my study on the matter) that the Church always creates a budget for each year at the end of the previous year, in conjunction with the annual meeting of the Council on the Disposition of the Tithes. The reason the Church can now stay out of debt is because of adherence to a strict budget. In late April 2017, Elder Larry Y. Wilson, who serves as the Executive Director of the Church's Temple Department, had mentioned that a list of 80 temple locations were under active consideration for a temple announcement within the 15 years following that statement. So if the Church had a view to announce 80 temples within a 15-year period, I have no doubt that the Church would reserve in the budgetary plans for 2017 and 2018 money for temple construction.<br /><br />If I am correct, and that is what has occurred, then the main reason that no temples were announced between the April 2017 General Conference and the first General Conference over which President Nelson presided last April was simply because President Monson's declining health did not let him take as much action on temple announcements as would have otherwise been possible. <br /><br />And it has been my understanding (from things I have read and heard said from Church leaders) that the Church never announces temples anywhere unless there are sufficient funds laid aside in advance to construct and operate the temples that are announced. That said, the Church's plans to reduce Church services by one hour each week will no doubt cut operating costs and thus enable more funds to be available for temples in the future.<br /><br />@David Todd, the intent may be both things you mentioned: to allow more wards to share the same building (which would further cut operating costs) and to enable wards to meet earlier. As I understand it, the cost of operating any building increases with the length of time that building resources are used. What that means in terms of the specific way this will affect Church block meeting times and how many wards meet in a building may remain to be seen.<br /><br />But the Church did provide a look at a few different scheduling scenarios. The first shows what to do if 3 or more wards share a building (by having those wards do the complete 2-hour block one after another). A second shows what can be done if two congregations share a building (which would likely apply to my ward and the one other ward meeting in our chapel). And a third option presents a look at how smaller congregations could share the "second hour" of Church, with the first congregation having Sacrament Meeting before the shared hour, and the second having Sacrament Meeting after that shared hour.James G. Stokeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13331619300918542708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-79932725168172886242018-10-09T23:04:53.298-06:002018-10-09T23:04:53.298-06:00@Ohhappydane33, from looking closer at ldsmaps, I’...@Ohhappydane33, from looking closer at ldsmaps, I’m guessing Lincoln and Auburn stakes are more likely than Antelope, Roseville, or Rocklin (30 mins to Sac temple, 1 hour to YC). I guess we’ll see. There could even be another stake or two created in the region in the next 5 years due to decent amount of homebuilding. Will be fun to watch.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195848358946005216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-22488601888356641802018-10-09T22:58:18.732-06:002018-10-09T22:58:18.732-06:00@DavidTodd, I had the same thoughts, but also thin...@DavidTodd, I had the same thoughts, but also think many buildings may have the capacity for an additional ward as needed. I guess we’ll see.<br /><br />I wonder if President Nelson’s comment also implies an earlier start time for the first ward in multi-ward buildings. I’d love to see the earliest ward start at 8:00 or 8:30a rather than 9 or 10, but that may just be me.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195848358946005216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-73288143621261862212018-10-09T21:09:08.310-06:002018-10-09T21:09:08.310-06:00Originally I thought it meant that in growing area...Originally I thought it meant that in growing areas more wards can share the same building, but then it was emphasized to have the wards meet as early in the day as possible, so I don't know.David Toddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16633681311966766482noreply@blogger.com