tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post3630686015156442294..comments2024-03-27T17:28:09.345-06:00Comments on Growth of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church): New Stakes Created in the DR Congo, Ghana, Mongolia, and Nigeria; New District Created in BrazilMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16030323360917985701noreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-23854196879838041472016-06-14T17:50:23.467-06:002016-06-14T17:50:23.467-06:00The Economist reported around 2002 or so that the ...The Economist reported around 2002 or so that the Indian Dallits were holding a convention and would vote to convert en masse to Christianity or another religion beyond Hinduism, as they do not count within the caste system. We need to send them our missionaries in ever bigger numbers.Eduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05019747288076783700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-73161420447810925562016-06-10T20:53:42.535-06:002016-06-10T20:53:42.535-06:00I wonder if any Dallits in India have converted. M...I wonder if any Dallits in India have converted. My guess is some have. Realistically the Dallits would probably constitute at least 95% of those listed groups. John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-36923243335893407452016-06-09T15:19:46.933-06:002016-06-09T15:19:46.933-06:00I can't wait for April Fool's next year wh...I can't wait for April Fool's next year when it will be reported that all Iraqi Yazidis and Indian Dallits convert to the LDS Church in a month span, thus boosting our membership by 300 or so million in 28 days! Why not throw in the Druze and Parsis? And the majority of their stake and mission leadership? South Sudanese, of course.Eduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05019747288076783700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-19293755394975657272016-06-08T19:10:19.877-06:002016-06-08T19:10:19.877-06:00I think though currently the Church does not want ...I think though currently the Church does not want to make a branch without having one Mel priesthood holder, and I think they have lengthened the time from baptism to being given the Mel priesthood from what we saw in a few cases in Detroit in the 1990s, which was at times less than a month. The Church has also decided to try to avoid having full-time missionaries serve as branch presidents. Still I think the key as to why Damascus got a branch with so few members while places like Daloa waited a while with growing groups before moving to branch status is that you have very strong moved in members in Damascus, but I could be wrong.John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-22980127771189263802016-06-07T19:43:48.948-06:002016-06-07T19:43:48.948-06:00Branch in a stake needs 4-6 AFTPMPHs.
Branch in...Branch in a stake needs 4-6 AFTPMPHs. <br /><br />Branch in a mission is lower. It was something like about 5, but they could be Aaronic Priesthood holders.Mike Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10025612146815804945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-66504216859494386562016-06-07T19:04:00.592-06:002016-06-07T19:04:00.592-06:00Now what would really be impresive would be if the...Now what would really be impresive would be if the Church created a branch in Raqqa the caoital of the Islamic State.John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-43214771906301963832016-06-07T19:02:28.938-06:002016-06-07T19:02:28.938-06:00Alternatively the Damascus branch might have two l...Alternatively the Damascus branch might have two local families of 3 and 2 and 4 aftpmph forigners posted to Damascus who left wives and children in safer locations.John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-52890398080979394142016-06-07T18:59:40.144-06:002016-06-07T18:59:40.144-06:00How many active full tithe paying mel priesthood h...How many active full tithe paying mel priesthood holders do you need for a branch? If the 9 people are 4 couples and a single man all forign nationals with business or gov assignments all the men returned missionaries you could have 5 aftpmph which is I am sure quite enough for a branch. Groups are normally formed when your only endowed members are missionaries and most members were baptized since last Tuesday except one who was baptized at age 13 in the big city, AKA Abijan, but moved away a month later and has not been to church in the intervening 17 years.John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-45909747111683321562016-06-07T18:52:51.499-06:002016-06-07T18:52:51.499-06:00The Church may spread better in the longrun in Ind...The Church may spread better in the longrun in India if it is first built by missionaries who have been trained deeply in the gospel in the west but have familial connections to India. Also by members who join the Church while studying in the USA etc and then go back and share the gospel. So maybe Hindi speaking missionaries in Chicago, Houston, Vancover BC and London is the best step forward today in building the Church in India. With many of the Indians in the west fkurnt in English especially those who are the students who will go back it may not seem worth the effort to learn Hindi. But do they understand religious concepts well enough in English. I kbow in my mission there were Spanish-speaking missionaries who feared that native Spanish speakers taught in English didnt have a strong enough vocabulary to understand what they were taught in English even if they knew enough English to function well as a member of a cleaning grew a chef a carpenter or on occasion even a lawyer.John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-28283794407145451872016-06-07T18:43:53.263-06:002016-06-07T18:43:53.263-06:00BYU's religious studies center published a boo...BYU's religious studies center published a book that is available online that is about the administrative organization of the Church. It has a chapter on the missionary department. It actually gives a lot of details about how mission presidents are selected. I don't remember how exactly they select the target lists but they compile lists of many more mission presidents than needed with all sorts of data and then I think the missionary executive commitee takes it from there. It is a very interesting read if one wants to understand how the missionary department runs alrhough a few years old so may not reflect exactly how things are done but it was written after preach my gospel came to be if I remember so that means it is not old.John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-1417405138810975042016-06-07T18:36:41.422-06:002016-06-07T18:36:41.422-06:00The may 10th Church news has an artist from Tonga ...The may 10th Church news has an artist from Tonga called as mission president in New Guinea and a cosmetc laboratory supervisor from Chile called. The other two from outside the US are seminary/institute coordinators. However two of the 4 from inside the US also work full time for the Church.John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-27892339471017887032016-06-07T18:24:15.457-06:002016-06-07T18:24:15.457-06:00I think you have to bear in mind working for the C...I think you have to bear in mind working for the Church could be a cause of effect. Especially in positions like regional CES director the Church recruits people with the spiritual and administrative experience that can also be used to run a mission. On the other hand it is hard for people in some peofessions to leave for 3 years. Thise who work for the Church can come back.John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-76108404619199803052016-06-07T18:19:04.671-06:002016-06-07T18:19:04.671-06:00However the people called as mission presidents te...However the people called as mission presidents tend to have few if any children at home. The population in the south valley may generally be younger than missionary age. Also in some areas you may not have many upcoming church leaders but lots of experienced ones. In the south valley you would call such mem to lead newly split stakes in the north you dont need as many stake presidents so you call mission presidents.John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-43142656666081716832016-06-07T16:26:37.690-06:002016-06-07T16:26:37.690-06:00Great news!Great news!TempleRickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12085548097933120560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-1475970446101463712016-06-07T14:15:17.520-06:002016-06-07T14:15:17.520-06:00I just heard from a local member that the area pre...I just heard from a local member that the area president announced that the Rajahmundry India Stake will be organized this year. That makes my day!Christopher Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00582245548922025033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-43286406354624350802016-06-07T12:10:37.095-06:002016-06-07T12:10:37.095-06:00If I recall correctly, stake presidents are regula...If I recall correctly, stake presidents are regularly asked about members who would make potential mission/temple presidents, particularly if the church is looking for someone with language skills. phxmarshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10279036728548934651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-31511631927091427092016-06-07T11:08:09.659-06:002016-06-07T11:08:09.659-06:00My understanding is that the branch in Damascus wa...My understanding is that the branch in Damascus was previously a group.<br /><br />Now, a bigger question is, would the branch be reportable or sensitive?Ryan Searcyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03492045549474456000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-38352861308038848152016-06-07T10:57:30.227-06:002016-06-07T10:57:30.227-06:00I wonder how it's even possible to organize a ...I wonder how it's even possible to organize a branch in Damascus with Syria being basically the most violent country in the world right now. And I wonder why they would organize a branch rather than a group if there are only nine members. Are they expecting it to grow soon?Christopher Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00582245548922025033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-59056909912321859142016-06-07T05:32:03.310-06:002016-06-07T05:32:03.310-06:00My mission president was a former stake president ...My mission president was a former stake president and apple orchard farmer from around Yakima, Washington. I would like to know in your database what percentage of of mission prez's were associated with Church Education. My wife's Spaniard mission pres in Spain was.<br />My mom's first president in Cambodia was retired US military; need to find out what the one in Indonesia was...Eduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05019747288076783700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-41056428918305272172016-06-06T21:54:44.856-06:002016-06-06T21:54:44.856-06:00It may be true in some cases that a stake presiden...It may be true in some cases that a stake president recommends someone; however, many stake presidents are called as mission presidents and I cannot envision many of these individuals recommending themselves. For this reason I kind of bought into the idea that the recommendation probably comes from the area authority. However, I still do not know for sure if that is where the process starts.<br /><br />My hypothesis began with the idea that when serving in leadership myself, I often select individuals as counselors or for other positions based on who I know, what I know about that person, whether I think that person would be good for the calling, and what impacts the calling might have on their family. Then after I have narrowed down the individuals, then I pray and try to receive an answer as to whom I should call. Usually the individuals that are called come from the narrowed down list that I had been considering, although sometimes not. <br />I assume area authorities follow a similar method. However, in order to make the first few "cuts" as it were ("cuts" is probably a bad word but I can't think of a better one right now), an area authority would likely need to have heard of or be familiar with the individual in order to answer those questions. Typically mission presidents are in a good position financially, this is a tough one to judge because people can appear to be financially stable but might have a lot of debt. It is impossible for me to know how this determination is made, and if tithing or fast offerings are used in any way to provide an indication of this; although, I would guess an area authority has some general knowledge about which stakes pay a lot in tithing or fast offerings so that could potentially play into it. Typically mission presidents fall within a certain age range, and typically they have served in leadership callings on a stake level either in a presidency or on the high council. So, that would narrow the list somewhat, but that would still leave hundreds of individuals on the list at least in the Utah area (probably less so in developing countries). So, to reduce the list further, I hypothesized that maybe who they know personally, and what they know about the person factors, into their thought process. If that is the case, they probably follow the same pattern I use in trying to receive revelation and usually the individuals they call will come from that group of individuals, but sometimes not. This could potentially lead to a "clustering" of mission presidents from certain stakes in Utah. It is also possible that those related to general authorities are often considered based on this same idea, that they know the person, know their financial means, the impact it would have on their families, etc. Still too early for me to know for sure, but it'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out. BYULAWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04198559151818993348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-88865297220568734222016-06-06T21:12:01.649-06:002016-06-06T21:12:01.649-06:00I would also think that the needs and openings aro...I would also think that the needs and openings around the world help dictate the qualifications for being presidents.<br />North America has well over 500 million inhabitants; maybe there are 30,000 full time missionaries here? India would be better to have 50 missions, for sure. But progress is happening. Temples will come.Eduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05019747288076783700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-47211836307560242222016-06-06T20:45:44.122-06:002016-06-06T20:45:44.122-06:00I believe the process starts with a recommendation...I believe the process starts with a recommendation by a stake president.<br /><br />I heard it described once as follows: Find somebody who lives the commandments, thoroughly understands the gospel, cares about people, with a very strong testimony and then call her husband as a mission president.Mike Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10025612146815804945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-52966405358660855012016-06-06T19:56:18.939-06:002016-06-06T19:56:18.939-06:00I would guess that stake presidents feed lists of ...I would guess that stake presidents feed lists of viable candidates to area authorities, then those seventies prayferfully consider who to send as recommendations to the Quorum of the 12. Languages and backgrounds matter, of course. It's probably good to check on the wives, but maybe the stake presidents and area authorities already did somewhat.<br />Recently Peter Scholtz (spelling should be good) was called to Riberao Preto Brazil. It was cool to hear how he interviewed with Elder... One of the newest ones, who explained it was his first time conducting such an interview!<br />Ashburn Stake 1st Counselor (Virginia), worked in commercial business.<br />Another mission president from my home state of Indiana may not have been church employment, would have to check. Brownsburg, Indianapolis West Stake. <br />Ashburn has another out as president in Singapore.Eduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05019747288076783700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-80736521399919354862016-06-06T19:47:16.631-06:002016-06-06T19:47:16.631-06:00John,
Thank you for your thoughts. Part of the re...John,<br /><br />Thank you for your thoughts. Part of the reason I don't know what to do with my findings is because there do appear to be several trends. For example, while there has been a handful of mission presidents from the ~90 stakes on the west side of I-15 (in Salt Lake County specifically) over the past 30 years, quite a large discrepancy appears to exist between the the amount of mission presidents called from the west side when compared to the ~81 stakes on the east side of the valley (specifically, the further east and north east you go, the more mission presidents tend to be called--I'm still adding up exact numbers). This specific finding is likely due to the east side of the freeway being traditionally more affluent than those on the west; but as the homes on the east side of I-15 (particularly northeast side) have gotten older and in some cases run down over the past 30 years, I would've expected a shift towards calling mission presidents from the south part of the valley (e.g. South Jordan, West Jordan, Riverton, Herriman, Bluffdale, and even Draper, though Draper is east of the freeway it is still having some development) but that hasn't really happened. The theory of the stakes that can "afford to lose leadership" being the source of more mission presidents doesn't seem to hold true in Utah. The stakes from which they keep getting called are generally in decline with respect to the number of active members since families with children tend to want newer and larger houses, newer schools, etc.<br /><br />Some individuals with an already weak testimony would probably point to these trends as diminishing the importance of revelation. I do not want to encourage that in any way. At first I wasn't sure what to think about the trends, but soon realized that of course there would need to be some sort of method to selecting them. I am positive that the apostles do not go down the membership records of millions of members and try to see if a name stands out from the rest, (what I would call uninformed revelation) but instead have a "network/pool" or whatever you want to call it from which to select mission presidents. <br /><br />You mentioned President Hudson not having worked for the church. I want to point out that no matter what trends I find, there will obviously be outliers; otherwise, if there weren't, I would probably question the role of revelation. In no way am I suggesting that if a person does XYZ that they will for sure become a mission president, nor am I suggesting that all mission presidents have specific backgrounds. But there are tendencies that exist.<br /> <br />Perhaps you are right in that the "working for the church" connection is more commonplace outside of North America. I am still trying to sort through everything I have to determine if there is such a connection; it is still a hypothesis. BYULAWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04198559151818993348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2786908254617003646.post-30389918474622773792016-06-06T18:46:29.130-06:002016-06-06T18:46:29.130-06:00Well, there was a couple called from my ward to pr...Well, there was a couple called from my ward to preside over a mission in New Zealand and I do not think you could pick any claim that they were in any way connected with the Church in employment. The husband worked in human resources for General Motors. The only other couple I can remember being called from my stake in my lifetime the husband was an Orthopedic Surgeon. <br /><br />I am hesitant to guess that personal connections are the reason that mission presidents get called from certain stakes more often. My first guess is that certain stakes can A- better afford to loose top leadership and B- have more members who are in a good position to leave as mission president. I also have to wonder how meaningful the stake at the time a couple leaves to serve as mission president is. For example does the stake that Elder and Sister Teh are listed in have any meaning, since they only took up residence there after he became a general authority?John Pack Lamberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05086707132348039415noreply@blogger.com